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Old 04-04-2014, 04:09 AM   #1
blalex620
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Default Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I've seen one consistent complaint about the film: The Winter Soldier was just another standard Marvel villain with no build up and too little screen time and dialogue.

I'm here to say I completely disagree. In my opinion you have to look at who TWS is and you'll understand why the role worked so well for the film. TWS is/was Hydra's perfect assassin, one of their ultimate weapons. He was trained to do one thing and one thing only: get the job done. Look at what the film told us: he's had his mind wiped and altered to only follow orders for Hydra. This is why the fact that as the Winter Soldier he had very few lines, It's not like Hydra gave him the opportunity to develop social skills after messing with his mind.
And as far as having too little screen time, once again it works perfectly for who he is. As Hydra's ultimate assassin, the only time he's shown on screen is when it's related to getting his job done. Other than that there's no point to him being on screen because Hydra ever only uses him for one thing.

That's why I think TWS was used perfectly in this movie and that the writers understand the character pretty well. Plus it probably helped that Brubaker consulted on the film.

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Old 04-04-2014, 04:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

My only small nitpick from the film was that TWS was not in the film all that much, but I feel much better about it after reading this. Agree with everything you said.

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Old 04-04-2014, 04:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I agree. His role in this film was perfect.

I think it's pretty powerful and tragic that while Rogers was on ice, his best friend was out there assassinating key figures and shaping the 20th century to HYDRA's needs. At this point he is a surgical tool. The scene where he was talking about Rogers and then gets mind wiped again was pretty shocking. No pun intended

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Old 04-04-2014, 05:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I love how they used him in small doses in the movie,but you could feel his presence and the tension he gives to the characters through all the movie.

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Old 04-04-2014, 05:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I would have liked the "oh noes, I'm Bucky" arc to have played out over two films, especially with the set-up at the end with Cap and Falcon, but I thought he was so menacing, it was great

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Old 04-04-2014, 08:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I got chills when he showed up in front of Fury's car. No joke

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Old 04-04-2014, 09:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

The Winter Soldier was hands down the best villain of phase 2 so far. He was brutal and intense and gave everyone a hurting. The scene at the end on the hellicarrier was very emotional and anyone who doesn't realize that he's being set up for more down the road isn't looking at the bigger picture.

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:09 AM   #8
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

That scene at the end with Steve was so emotional, I almost teared up. "I'm with you 'til the end." The look on Bucky's face--perfect. Sebastian Stan played this role very well.

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

My only complaint about him was that i wanted to see him even more. Any time he appeared on screen i just said "wow holy s**t he's so badass!"

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Old 04-04-2014, 12:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

Played perfectly but with a huge deficit of character development.

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Old 04-04-2014, 12:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

My favourite scene was when he was starting to remember his past after the first fight with Cap and got mindwiped. Great acting from Stan.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

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Originally Posted by Quasimod0 View Post
I got chills when he showed up in front of Fury's car. No joke
This. Was such a great entrance. Fury did great against all the agents, but it was obvious as soon as TWS showed up, he had met his match!

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I agree. But I can also understand why some would be felt a bit dissatisfied if they go in thinking that they'll get the whole WS arc due to the film's title. While I definitely wanted to see more of WS in this because he was so memorizing, I think they laid down a great framework for the character to be explore in the future. They really leave the door wide open. And I think that might be the plan. I think they know they have something special here. Why put all nicely wrap into one film, when they can spread it out to multiple films or even a series. They're probably waiting for the audience response to see which direction they want to approach with this character.

Big prop to Stan for giving such an amazing performance. He brought so much intensity and badass-y mixed with confusion and vulnerability. His re-brainwashing scene killed me.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

Agreed. He didn't need to be in it much or the big baddie. He's an assassin, and that's the way to play him. Having him in doses is much more powerful too, it helps give a sense of dread when he shows up. Because every time he did, he basically got away with it; arguably even at the end. Think of it in the way Beetlejuice is only on screen for like 15 minutes of his own movie.

Plus, as complex and complicated the situation is for Bucky in this movie, he's not a particularly complex character in his own right as far as we know so far. It's fairly cut and dry: Good man who was brainwashed, starts to remember his past, is torn between two lifestyles and left confused. His arc was layered in really well with the themes of the story and provided itself as an emotional anchor, and that's ultimately what counts.

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I would have liked the "oh noes, I'm Bucky" arc to have played out over two films, especially with the set-up at the end with Cap and Falcon, but I thought he was so menacing, it was great
It sort of is, it seems. I'm really glad they didn't tie his arc up in a neat little bow at the end. I was wondering if they'd actually have him remember himself and have that scene where he shows up for dinner with Cap and Sam dressed in a Christmas sweater to cut the turkey and thankfully they understood it was not the time to do that.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

TFA didn't do a good enough job developing their relationship and it showed in this one. It was my main complaint in it and it's the only problem I had with this movie. Evans and Stan sold it they best they could with what they were given but I feel Sam and Steve are closer than Steve and Bucky already.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

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TFA didn't do a good enough job developing their relationship and it showed in this one. It was my main complaint in it and it's the only problem I had with this movie. Evans and Stan sold it they best they could with what they were given but I feel Sam and Steve are closer than Steve and Bucky already.
I saw Bucky as Steve's sort-of-brother while Sam is a close friend of his. The relationships are different to me.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

That's the feeling I think the writers want to get across, they just didn't spend enough time developing that in the first movie I think. It's like they're telling us they're brothers rather than showing us. To me they seemed to be aware of this which is why TWS had flashbacks with the two bonding and whatnot.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:49 PM   #19
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That's the feeling I think the writers want to get across, they just didn't spend enough time developing that in the first movie I think. It's like they're telling us they're brothers rather than showing us. To me they seemed to be aware of this which is why TWS had flashbacks with the two bonding and whatnot.
Yeah I knew they'd have to compensate using flashbacks. I still think Stan and Evans sold it well. Especially since Steve was the only person who could trigger his memory.

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

Some more buildup in TFA would've helped it hit harder, but it worked just fine I think. They sold it extra more with the flashbacks, which was effective.

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Old 04-04-2014, 03:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

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Yeah I knew they'd have to compensate using flashbacks. I still think Stan and Evans sold it well. Especially since Steve was the only person who could trigger his memory.
I think they did very well considering the situation. It's really the fault of the first film in the end.

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Old 04-04-2014, 03:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I agree The Winter Solider was played perfectly. Sebastian Stan and those action scenes were brilliant.

I think the complaint is, the importance of Bucky to Steve wasn't explored enough for some people, in this film. Now you could argue that was the job of the first film to do. That we shouldn't have to go over it again...

The problem is, this film is far superior to its predecessor. And as a result, I would have liked to have seen the Russo's give us a WW2 scene which explored and strengthened Cap and Bucky's relationship prior to the reveal. Now if this was near the beginning of this film, it would strengthen the friendship, making it all the most of a shocker when we later find out who the Winter Solider is, ('we' being the general audience) And since it could be a scene showing off the exploits of Cap during WW2, it'd show us why he's such a legend - it wouldn't look like an obvious attempt at foreshadowing Bucky being alive. Obviously we had the Captain America museum which did the same job, it lingered on Bucky's photo, mentioned he was the only member of the unit to die. But I think that was a little thin on the ground for the general audience, and those who didn't watch Cap 1 (of which there are alot).

But despite all this, he's still by far the greatest Marvel antagonist on film to date, I'd argue. Brilliantly, brilliantly done.

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Old 04-04-2014, 03:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I wouldn't even say it was the fault of the first film. The writers have said they didn't know exactly where they were going in terms of story after the first film because they didn't even know if they'd be back to write a sequel. It was probably only after deciding what the story was going to be for the sequel did they realize the shortcomings of the first film.

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Old 04-04-2014, 08:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I thought they did the best they could to show how close Steve and Bucky were. They had the flashback but also had him have his own area at the Cap. America Museum. I almost would have added a "Part 1" to the title just because the story with the Winter Soilder isn't finished.

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Old 04-04-2014, 08:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

I think if anything TWS goes to show that complaints about villains having too little screen time may be:
a. for naught
b. somewhat misplaced.

First of all, these movies are about the heroes. Obviously they should have a substantial amount more screentime than the antagonist, 99% of the time.

Second, not every villain is The Joker (who is arguably just as important to Batman as Batman) or Darth Vader (who is the main character of the Star Wars franchise). Or for that matter Loki (who is a special case and gets plenty of screentime anyway).

Third, every MCU villain falls under one of two categories. Either:
a. they are one off villains that don't need a hell of a lot of character development (Whiplash, Iron Monger, Malekith, Laufey, Destroyer, Killian) and their effect on the hero is more important than their own personal arc.
or b. they are probably going to be used again some day in some capacity (Red Skull, Winter Soldier, Loki, Thanos, Zola, "The Mandarin")

At least, this is the way I see it.


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