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View Poll Results: How do you think Captain America: The Winter Soldier will do?
$1.5 billion 3 1.63%
$1 billion 8 4.35%
$900 million 11 5.98%
$800 million 20 10.87%
$700 million 45 24.46%
$600 million 53 28.80%
$500 million 38 20.65%
$400 million 4 2.17%
$300 million 2 1.09%
$200 million 0 0%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:20 PM   #376
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When I think of a gimmick I think of something cheap and not having already pre-existed.

That's not really the case for what they did with CA:TWS. Steve Rogers became an Agent of Shield in the comics and so they're going right into that, while also offering a return to Captain America in the same film. Including a major SHIELD presence was a well thought out move considering the modest results in the box office for CA:TFA.

With MoS, had it been a massive financial success my personal opinion is they give him his own sequel and then move into the BvS stuff. Why make one movie when people would be willing to go see two? That's why the results didn't meet their expectations and so fast tracking to crossovers is a marketing tool.
Again. I disagree. You are saying that if Cap was solo. Or just had the falcon team up with him that he would have the same draw as what they are doing? They are basically making an avengers 1.5. They didnt want to trot out a cap movie with him going on a solo adventure with no nick fury, or black widow. These extras bring in alot more people. That is no different than What MOS2 or whatever its called is doing. I honestly dont think WB has the desire to produce multiple comic book ongoing movies as they know the market place is already getting massively saturated and they have their hands in other pies within their movie studios. They are not following the marvel method and I dont think they have any interest in doing that. And really I think thats good for fans of comic book movies.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:30 PM   #377
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As far as the general public is concerned they know Fury, and more so black widow from the avengers movie. If you dont think they put black widow in the movie as another box office draw then I have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. If it was just cap fighting barron zemo or batroc on his own there would be no where near the buzz surrounding this. Period. Regardless I think its a great idea and dont blame them at all for doing it.
Yes but TWS storyline heavily involves SHIELD so SHIELD would need to be involved anyway.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:31 PM   #378
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Again. I disagree. You are saying that if Cap was solo. Or just had the falcon team up with him that he would have the same draw as what they are doing? They are basically making an avengers 1.5. They didnt want to trot out a cap movie with him going on a solo adventure with no nick fury, or black widow. These extras bring in alot more people.
No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that having a heavy SHIELD, BW, and Falcon presence is by design to up the marketing and box office draw, as the first film was only a modest success and does face certain perception issues abroad.

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That is no different than What MOS2 or whatever its called is doing. I honestly dont think WB has the desire to produce multiple comic book ongoing movies as they know the market place is already getting massively saturated and they have their hands in other pies within their movie studios. They are not following the marvel method and I dont think they have any interest in doing that. And really I think thats good for fans of comic book movies.
Don't kid yourself, the WB wants to make money on it's comic properties. They're not going to just quickly get into JL and be done. Btw, for such an over-saturated market, sure seems like quality CBM films are making quite a bit of money.

I'm not even talking about the Marvel method though. I'm merely speaking the to franchise that Superman should be, but clearly isn't anymore. Hence the rush into mini-JL and JL.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:37 PM   #379
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No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that having a heavy SHIELD, BW, and Falcon presence is by design to up the marketing and box office draw, as the first film was only a modest success and does face certain perception issues abroad.



Don't kid yourself, the WB wants to make money on it's comic properties. They're not going to just quickly get into JL and be done. Btw, for such an over-saturated market, sure seems like quality CBM films are making quite a bit of money.

I'm not even talking about the Marvel method though. I'm merely speaking the to franchise that Superman should be, but clearly isn't anymore. Hence the rush into mini-JL and JL.
I think WB looks at all options. Thats what I am saying. Hey they could trot out more batman films as well correct? Just knock one out every two years? He is the biggest superhero on the planet? Why not just do what Sony is doing with spidey? You dont think they could do it that way? Make a batman movie every two years solo. Well they aint doing that. They are doing it different. And thats fine.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:42 PM   #380
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Yes but TWS storyline heavily involves SHIELD so SHIELD would need to be involved anyway.
But it aint a coincidence that they are doing it the way they are! They didnt have to make a WS film right now. They could have waited till the third one or the fourth one. Cap on his own is not a superstar. Put him with samuel jackson, and scarlet johansen? Jackson/fury is probably one of the most bankable stars on the planet and has been in every marvel movie. Hell they could probably make a movie just around his character and it would do well. This one he is almost a co-star. So I think its a great idea what they are doing but dont kid yourself. If they made a cap fights the flag smasher movie just staring cap it would not do very well.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:46 PM   #381
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But it aint a coincidence that they are doing it the way they are! They didnt have to make a WS film right now. They could have waited till the third one or the fourth one. Cap on his own is not a superstar. Put him with samuel jackson, and scarlet johansen? Jackson/fury is probably one of the most bankable stars on the planet and has been in every marvel movie. Hell they could probably make a movie just around his character and it would do well. This one he is almost a co-star. So I think its a great idea what they are doing but dont kid yourself. If they made a cap fights the flag smasher movie just staring cap it would not do very well.
Well they kind of did because TWS storyline is pretty long and can not be covered in one movie. And Evans is only signed on for 3 Cap movies so they may want to continue TWS story in the third movie. Either way, in most of the modern Cap comics, he's a SHIELD agent so most of his storylines would have heavily involved SHIELD.

I'm not kidding myself, I never said it would do as well without SHIELD. I'm saying it's expected for Cap's movie to heavily involve SHIELD.

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:24 AM   #382
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Well they kind of did because TWS storyline is pretty long and can not be covered in one movie. And Evans is only signed on for 3 Cap movies so they may want to continue TWS story in the third movie. Either way, in most of the modern Cap comics, he's a SHIELD agent so most of his storylines would have heavily involved SHIELD.

I'm not kidding myself, I never said it would do as well without SHIELD. I'm saying it's expected for Cap's movie to heavily involve SHIELD.
The average guy who goes to a cap movie has no idea its expected that cap be heavily involved with shield/fury/black widow. These people are in the movie to bring a wider audience to the movie. NO different than MOS2. All of these movies are attempting to one up themselves. They have to. Thor is a perfect example. We had loki in the first one, loki in the avengers and loki in the 2nd one. Hey they can do thor stories without loki? Yea but Loki is a gimmick that brings in more fans. You can almost bank on him being in the third. Because people dont wanna see Thor without Loki in a solo movie. I personally think they rely to much on him and Thor could move beyond it. But not sure the movie people feel this way.

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:42 AM   #383
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You can almost bank on him being in the third. Because people dont wanna see Thor without Loki in a solo movie. I personally think they rely to much on him and Thor could move beyond it. But not sure the movie people feel this way.
Ummm....did you see the end of Thor:The Dark World? Excuse me if you did but thats a strange sentence if you did see it.

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:44 AM   #384
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

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The average guy who goes to a cap movie has no idea its expected that cap be heavily involved with shield/fury/black widow. These people are in the movie to bring a wider audience to the movie. NO different than MOS2. All of these movies are attempting to one up themselves. They have to. Thor is a perfect example. We had loki in the first one, loki in the avengers and loki in the 2nd one. Hey they can do thor stories without loki? Yea but Loki is a gimmick that brings in more fans. You can almost bank on him being in the third. Because people dont wanna see Thor without Loki in a solo movie. I personally think they rely to much on him and Thor could move beyond it. But not sure the movie people feel this way.
Well now Loki HAS to be in the third Thor movie given the way Thor 2 ended......

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:51 AM   #385
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I agree in a way. But my point was that WB is about making the most of what it has. It isnt following the marvel example and thats fine. It doesnt make MOS not a financial success. All of these movies are going to have to keep one upping themselves. Cap is avengers 1.5 and thats fine by me. People say putting batman in a superman film is a gimmick but putting black widow, falcon/ shield, Nick Fury in a huge role(sammy jackson) and the helicarrier isnt a gimmick. Hell yea it is.

How the heck is putting SHIELD elements in Cap movie is a gimmick? He's been closely associated with them in the comics for a long time.The Brubaker's run , the Ultimate version...

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:58 AM   #386
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Well now Loki HAS to be in the third Thor movie given the way Thor 2 ended......
Yup

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Old 03-18-2014, 01:02 AM   #387
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How the heck is putting SHIELD elements in Cap movie is a gimmick? He's been closely associated with them in the comics for a long time.The Brubaker's run , the Ultimate version...
Its a gimmick the same way putting any other highly recognized person or thing in a movie. It boosts the appeal of the movie. Cap alone isnt going to get people to swarm. Cap/ Nick fury/ Shield/ with current tv show plus Black widow avengers co-star? That is not just a cap movie. My point is that people say of superman/batman is a gimmick. Sure it is! Of course it is. Its a gimmick that puts the two biggest heros on the planet in the same movie in order to make as much money as humanly possible. They aint paying Sam jackson huge dollars in this movie for giggles. They are paying him because he brings people into the movie.

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Old 03-18-2014, 01:19 AM   #388
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I disagree, because they have been shown togeteher before. SHIELD showing up in MC movies is nothing new.They were around ever since Iron Man 2. heck, they were a big part of The Avengers movie.

By this time, most of the people that are going to see Cap movie, probably already seen previous Marvel movies, most likely The Avengers. They will remember that Nick Fury and black Widow is part of SHIELD. The fact that SHIELD showing up in this movie will not be a strange/ new concept to them.Yjerefore...not exactly a gimmick IMO.They're just one of the story elements.

As for the Falcon...a supporting character. I dunno how you can call his inclusion in this movie a gimmick...it's not like he's ever been in a succesful solo movie before. Might as well call having Whiplash in IM 2 a gimmick too...

What i would call for a gimmick in a cap movie if, for example, Thor or Iron man..or the Hulk showed up. Not Natasha or Fury, whow's been in several others MCU movies.


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Old 03-18-2014, 01:33 AM   #389
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I disagree, because they have been shown togeteher before. SHIELD showing up in MC movies is nothing new.They were around ever since Iron Man 2. heck, they were a big part of The Avengers movie.

By this time, most of the people that are going to see Cap movie, probably already seen previous Marvel movies, most likely The Avengers. They will remember that Nick Fury and black Widow is part of SHIELD. The fact that SHIELD showing up in this movie will not be a strange/ new concept to them.Yjerefore...not exactly a gimmick IMO.They're just one of the story elements.

As for the Falcon...a supporting character. I dunno how you can call his inclusion in this movie a gimmick...it's not like he's ever been in a succesful solo movie before. Might as well call having Whiplash in IM 2 a gimmick too...

What i would call for a gimmick in a cap movie if, for example, Thor or Iron man..or the Hulk showed up. Not Natasha or Fury, whow's been in several others MCU movies.
Wait so you can put multiple other stars and heros in a solo cap movie movie and its not considered a gimmick. But put batman in a superman movie and its a gimmick because they have never been in a movie before? I am so confused. Nick Fury has been in all the marvel movies. But other than Avengers this is the first one he is having a major role in. If you think putting one of the most familiar faces in the marvel movie universe and one of the most bankable stars in the history of movies isnt there to generate interest and money I dont know what to tell you.

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Old 03-18-2014, 01:39 AM   #390
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Its quite simple , really. It's a gimmick if it's not normally something you'd expect to see. Cap/Natasha.Fury are natural fit. Therefore, not a gimmick. PLUS, they have been shown together before.And calling Sam ine of the most bankable stars is a bit of a stretch. He's well known...but he's not exactly the kind of star that put butts in the seat...Snakes on a plane, anyone?

Batman and Superman...NEVER been done before. It is something truly unique, a novelty..therefore, more fitting to be called a gimmick IMO

You seems to be confusing 'features' with 'gimmick'


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Old 03-18-2014, 05:28 AM   #391
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Im not a tough guy. I just find it funny how logic dictates your thought process. A movie that makes 450 million more than its budget is a big success. There is no movie guy who could argue that. Amazing spider man made 752 million on a 230 million budget worldwide but had worse domestic box office take than MOS. They didnt hesitate to greenlight Amazing for a second despite mixed reviews by fans. The have already greenlite movies 2 and 4 for the franchise. Wolverine is another one. 414 million world wide only 132 domestic on a 120 million dollar budget. They are still talking a sequel to it if Jackman wants it.

It isn't about x$ over budget it is about multiples of budget. The old rule of thumb was tht a moive ahd to gross double it's budget to break even. That is because the movie theaters get a cut of ticket sales. Your two examples here more than tripled their budgets which is why the studios are doing or are willing to do sequels. It is also why the FF movie got a sequel.

OTOH if in the future Cameron does a movie with say a $1.5 billion budget(extreme example but I making a point here) and it makes $2.5 billion it would lose money and thus be a failure because they don't get all that money.

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Old 03-18-2014, 05:45 AM   #392
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

Yea i don't see how SHIELD being heavily involved with a Cap film is a "gimmick". Cap and SHIELD are closely tied together in the comics. Moreso than any other Marvel character really. Him doing missions for them is a natural fit for the character. Heck for a while he ran SHIELD and I get the feeling that he will be running the remnants of SHIELD by the end of this film.

This film will still be Steve Rogers' story. It just so happens that his story involves SHIELD. Naturally.

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Old 03-18-2014, 05:49 AM   #393
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

This films seems to incorporate Fury, Widow and SHIELD the way Iron Man 2 wanted to.

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Old 03-18-2014, 06:27 AM   #394
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

Having SHIELD in a Cap movie is the equivalent of having Scotland Yard in a Sherlock Holmes movie. Is that a gimmick?

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Old 03-18-2014, 06:55 AM   #395
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That is a very good comparison imo.

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Old 03-18-2014, 07:25 AM   #396
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

Same with Batman and Gordon/GCPD.

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Old 03-18-2014, 11:49 AM   #397
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

Guys, don't even bother trying to talk to insideguy, he's a self admitted troll.

"The whole point of this to me is to not bash TDW but to bash the crazed fans of this marvel U and try and bring them back to reality."
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=884

He's doing the exact thing here that he did in the Dark World BO thread last year. Putting words in peoples mouths and then arguing straw-man style. His movie of choice then was Catching Fire (which he brought up incessantly) to beat the comicbook movies, now it seems it's Godzilla that'll "blow every comic movie out of the water this year."


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It has nothing to do with expectations. It has to do with built in bias. Thor 2 made 206 million domestic. I think it did great. But I dont have a bias. But people who thought it would do 250 or 300 were amazed that it didnt. I dont know why. They had this bias toward thor thinking it was going to light things up and blow past MOS and bla bla. They didnt look at how the numbers were lining up. Then they got mad at me when I told them they need to tone back. So I was the bad guy even though they had the bias.
Bulls***. People got mad at you because you swooped in claiming TDW's run was "terrible" then turned around and insulted anyone who had thought it would do better, calling them "high", "dumb", "blind fanboys" & "zombies".

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=329
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=860
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=308
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=325
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=337
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=639

As for you not having bias? You tore people down for over-predicting Thor, and in the same breath said THG:CF would make "$500m easy" domestic.
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=812

You were every bit off the mark with your CF prediction as some people were with their TDW predictions, but that didn't stop your little crusade.

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Radien is a perfect example. 350 million domestic? Come on.
And now you're here doing exactly the same thing. Take some of your own advice and "tone it back", Mr Revisionist Hypocrite.

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:22 PM   #398
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^^ well, that explained it...

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:25 PM   #399
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

I put him on ignore ages ago. But watching everyone else respond to him has been amusing.

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:36 PM   #400
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Default Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Box Office Prediction Thread

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Guys, don't even bother trying to talk to insideguy, he's a self admitted troll.

"The whole point of this to me is to not bash TDW but to bash the crazed fans of this marvel U and try and bring them back to reality."
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=884

He's doing the exact thing here that he did in the Dark World BO thread last year. Putting words in peoples mouths and then arguing straw-man style. His movie of choice then was Catching Fire (which he brought up incessantly) to beat the comicbook movies, now it seems it's Godzilla that'll "blow every comic movie out of the water this year."




Bulls***. People got mad at you because you swooped in claiming TDW's run was "terrible" then turned around and insulted anyone who had thought it would do better, calling them "high", "dumb", "blind fanboys" & "zombies".

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=329
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=860
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=308
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=325
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=337
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=639

As for you not having bias? You tore people down for over-predicting Thor, and in the same breath said THG:CF would make "$500m easy" domestic.
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=812

You were every bit off the mark with your CF prediction as some people were with their TDW predictions, but that didn't stop your little crusade.



And now you're here doing exactly the same thing. Take some of your own advice and "tone it back", Mr Revisionist Hypocrite.


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