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Old 05-04-2013, 05:00 PM   #551
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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Cyclops has to show up for work first. They've got to get him back. Movie Storm certainly felt that Scott was more deserving than her to lead the team; it was Xavier who felt differently.
Speaking of which: I think movie Cyclops would make a boring leader. Just saying.

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Old 05-04-2013, 05:10 PM   #552
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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As long as she doesn't steal cyclops role I don't mind
She won't be taking over Cyclops' role at all.

1) Storm was shown as the leader by the end of X-Men: The Last Stand and she seemed to grow into her new authoritative position. So logically for the movies Storm is the leader and she's just continuing on from her role in X3

2) In the comics Storm has led the X-Men many times before and in this particular comic storyline Cyclops was absent and it was Storm leading the team. So having movie storm led the team would NOT be stealing Cyclops' role. It would be respecting the source material.

3) Cyclops in the movies is NOT the Cyclops of the comics. As sad as it is it's the truth. He is not the de facto leader of the X-Men that role belongs solely to Prof X as shown in X-2 and it passed onto Storm in X2 (kind of) with the capture Prof X and Cyclops. And in X3 with the death of Prof X and Cyclops.

Just my two cents

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Old 05-04-2013, 05:18 PM   #553
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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Speaking of which: I think movie Cyclops would make a boring leader. Just saying.

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Old 05-04-2013, 09:46 PM   #554
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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Speaking of which: I think movie Cyclops would make a boring leader. Just saying.
I guess so and I feel like if they make Cyclops a true leader of the X-Men and if he gets more importance than the rest of the cast, it could possibly look bland. Kinda like Captain America.

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If they would have done the tidal wave and then have Castillo jump on her I wouldn't have mind, they can't have Storm kill everything, but without the wave Storm looked VERY weak compared to all the other X-Men. All she did in that fight was kill Castillo... that's it.
You are right about that.

And I didn't notice it until you mentioned it.

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:16 PM   #555
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

James Marsden wasn't really a strong enough character or actor to be the leader or the X-Men in the movies, and was also too young at the time. Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry all had more charisma than him. It didn't seem as if anyone would really follow Marsden. Had they gotten a different actor in the role, things could've turned out differently because he would have brought both his personality and acting skills to the part and Singer might've played on that.

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #556
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

I'm not entirely sure I would characterize Cyclops as needing to be charismatic or exciting. Those are two terms I have never associated with the character.

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:29 PM   #557
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

Well Professor X has been rather dull in the comics and not exactly either of those two adjectives. But Patrick Stewart brings more of those qualities to the character and makes the movie version more interesting. Whoever plays Cyclops still has to be interesting enough to want to follow on screen. If he is deadly dull, then he's not really much better than a background character.

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:32 PM   #558
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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James Marsden wasn't really a strong enough character or actor to be the leader or the X-Men in the movies, and was also too young at the time. Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry all had more charisma than him. It didn't seem as if anyone would really follow Marsden. Had they gotten a different actor in the role, things could've turned out differently because he would have brought both his personality and acting skills to the part and Singer might've played on that.
I can see your point and even if James Marsden appeared in a couple of successful films after X-Men 3, he isn't exactly an A-list actor who received an Oscar nomination in the past. He's more suitable for a supporting role than a leading role.

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Old 05-05-2013, 04:53 AM   #559
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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James Marsden wasn't really a strong enough character or actor to be the leader or the X-Men in the movies, and was also too young at the time. Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry all had more charisma than him. It didn't seem as if anyone would really follow Marsden. Had they gotten a different actor in the role, things could've turned out differently because he would have brought both his personality and acting skills to the part and Singer might've played on that.
I can't say for sure that Marsden can't pull off a believable leader character because he wasn't really given the chance. I do agree that he was miscast simply because he was too young (in age, stature, and in the presence he exuded).

The writing and direction for X1 and X2 made him seem very incapable. Everything he said or did was second guessed and ultimately shown to be wrong. That always surprised me because it was obvious that Bryan really liked and respected James and then gave him such a $h!tty role to play.

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:07 AM   #560
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

Speaking of leading... not that X2 gave such a good version or Storm, but after X3, the difference in storytelling styles can really be seen.

In X3, Storm was put front and center as the leader, but she never actually did any leading. In the beginning, it looked like she was in charge of the kids and Logan was just messing around. Then in the end, it's Logan who calls all the shots, making Storm the neutered leader. Before I really hated Halle's acting in X3, but then I thought about it and what else could she have done. No one could have made Storm look commanding in that role. The only times she asserted herself, the dialogue was abysmal. Also, she was basically always standing a few paces behind Logan. Even when they're running through the mansion after Jean's meltdown, Storm was ahead of Logan, but then who's the first to arrive and respond? Why Logan, of course.

So looking back at X2... Storm wasn't the leader, but she more convincingly took charge. I never really appreciated it until watching again, but there's that one moment in the jet where she just turns her head really fast and tells everyone to "hang on" and then performs the evasion maneuver with the jet. That little moment (how she just does it suddenly while everyone else reels) plus the fact that she's piloting and then the addition of the tornado scene really put her in control. There were other little moments as well (like simply describing the Alkali Lake complex) that were more leader-like in their subtlety than anything in X3. It's this type of storytelling that I appreciate from Bryan. He's not in-your-face. Maybe sometimes he should be a little more... but I digress. With him directing again, I hope we can see some good leading and groupwork in DOFP.

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:25 AM   #561
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

I hope Storm leads the x-men in days of future past

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:38 AM   #562
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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Speaking of leading... not that X2 gave such a good version or Storm, but after X3, the difference in storytelling styles can really be seen.

In X3, Storm was put front and center as the leader, but she never actually did any leading. In the beginning, it looked like she was in charge of the kids and Logan was just messing around. Then in the end, it's Logan who calls all the shots, making Storm the neutered leader. Before I really hated Halle's acting in X3, but then I thought about it and what else could she have done. No one could have made Storm look commanding in that role. The only times she asserted herself, the dialogue was abysmal. Also, she was basically always standing a few paces behind Logan. Even when they're running through the mansion after Jean's meltdown, Storm was ahead of Logan, but then who's the first to arrive and respond? Why Logan, of course.

So looking back at X2... Storm wasn't the leader, but she more convincingly took charge. I never really appreciated it until watching again, but there's that one moment in the jet where she just turns her head really fast and tells everyone to "hang on" and then performs the evasion maneuver with the jet. That little moment (how she just does it suddenly while everyone else reels) plus the fact that she's piloting and then the addition of the tornado scene really put her in control. There were other little moments as well (like simply describing the Alkali Lake complex) that were more leader-like in their subtlety than anything in X3. It's this type of storytelling that I appreciate from Bryan. He's not in-your-face. Maybe sometimes he should be a little more... but I digress. With him directing again, I hope we can see some good leading and groupwork in DOFP.
Your post is so right on so many accounts. I completely agree with you!!! In X3 Storm was a leader in name only, no one actually followed her order (Kitty and Bobby went ice skating despite Storm telling them to stay in their rooms.) But in X2 she was a leader in everything but name.

Some of my favourite leadership moments from Storm in X2 include the two you mentioned but also I felt a sort of leadership vibe during the camp scene when Magneto explains to the team who Stryker is, she comes off as very confrontational with the way she delivers her lines, which I loved, she seemed like a leader struggling to decide whether to work with a villain like magneto or not.

Another scene is when they're in the control room in stryker's base and she gives orders to the team. And the best thing about it was that they didn't sound like orders, Storm was shown as not your average run of the mill leader she has a diplomatic approach to the way she leads her team.

And finally I think the ultimate scene where Storm was shown as the leader was just before she and Nightcrawler teleported into Dark Cerebro. She was the one to come up with a plan and then she was able to encourage Kurt to go along with the plan which ended up saving humanity. And she did all this in the presence of Cyclops. The defacto leader of the X-Men. That scene always makes me smile as it shows that Storm is always on her feet thinking of creative ways to deal with the problem whilst Cyclops was a bit more...let's just say less creative.

I just wished that the movie would have clearly stated that Storm was the second in command after cyclops (or had shown something that implied that.) And that she was in charge whilst he was absent. I guess it's displayed in X3 with Storm being chosen as the leader to take over Cyclops.

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:40 AM   #563
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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I hope Storm leads the x-men in days of future past
I can think of only two people that could lead the X-Men in this film. Professor X or Storm, it'll be interesting to see who Singer goes with him. I root Storm, prof x is not the right leader for the types of situations that DOFP will address.

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Old 05-05-2013, 08:28 AM   #564
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

I see Storm more as Professor X's number 1 who is sent down into the field on away missions, whereas Professor X is more like a starship captain. I don't know why I thought of that analogy. However, because Jean-Luc Charles has more overall life experience and diplomatic skills, and also did seem to do a bit of field leading in the 60s, he might still decide to go on away missions.

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I can't say for sure that Marsden can't pull off a believable leader character because he wasn't really given the chance. I do agree that he was miscast simply because he was too young (in age, stature, and in the presence he exuded).


The writing and direction for X1 and X2 made him seem very incapable. Everything he said or did was second guessed and ultimately shown to be wrong. That always surprised me because it was obvious that Bryan really liked and respected James and then gave him such a $h!tty role to play.
I think even the James Marsden of today if cast in X1 back then, might've been better than the actor he was back then. But even still, a lot of those other actors still had more presence than him. He almost seems like he could've just been one of Professor X's young but inexperienced students.

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Old 05-05-2013, 12:42 PM   #565
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

Xavier was clearly training Storm to be leader in X2.

A good example of this is when he sent her and Jean to retrieve Nightcrawler at the church. It was to Storm that Xavier communicated directions while on the X-Jet. Upon their arrival, she boldly blew open the church doors with a gale force wind and entered first with Jean in tow. She also took the lead in getting Nightcrawler down from the beams above (using lightning of course) while Jean looked on with awe of Storm's power displays. Finally, Storm led the interrogation process of Kurt after he was in their custody (while still in the church).

It seemed that Jean had a lot of respect for Storm's leadership skills and powers. Even when Storm summoned multitudes of tornadoes to shake off the military jets, Jean looked over at her in one moment, and her facial expression was definitely one of "you are wowing me". The ladies worked so well together.

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Old 05-05-2013, 12:47 PM   #566
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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I'm not entirely sure I would characterize Cyclops as needing to be charismatic or exciting. Those are two terms I have never associated with the character.
Me either. Scott is a bit of a nerd and basically dry. And that's actually part of his charm.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:19 PM   #567
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

problem with cyclops in the movies is that james marsden as an actor wasn't as big as halle berry (in X2), patrick stewart or ian mckellen, and cyclops as a character wasn't the break out character like mystique or wolverine and he basicly was the character that would hold back halle getting something to do and hold back sexual tension between jean and wolverine

he was pretty much an expendable character at the time

you can say singer tried to give cyclops some playful insults between wolverine and give them a back and forth and by having jean say stay loyal to scott in X2, but X3 decided to take no prisoners

marsdens cyclops can be a good leader he just had to be written that way and not hiding in the shadow of wolverine

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #568
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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Xavier was clearly training Storm to be leader in X2.
That's certainly one way to look at it. Now you mention it I think you're right. There was some sort of respect given to Storm by the characters. I think of the phone conversation between Logan (Still at bobby's house) and Storm and Jean (in the x-jet) He was speaking to the both of them but he directed the last line to storm specifically.I believe he said something like 'And storm, make it fast' or maybe it was 'come quickly or something' but whatever it was he was addressing Storm and my friend who was watching it at the time who is completely unfamiliar with the X-Men said. "Oh, so when Xavier's not there Storm is in charge." Made me smile a little bit for some reason but it certainly came across to some viewers that Storm was a leader if not THE leader. I still wish they had addressed it more clearly with a scene that clearly stated that Cyclops was the leader and Storm was his second.

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Old 05-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #569
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

On the other hand, a cynic could interpret that line as Wolverine giving Storm an order a la TLS.

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Old 05-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #570
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

its just bad luck on cyclops/marsdens part

the fact that marsden was written out of most of X2 shows something was going on with the script, maybe was written around halle berry

i think singer tried to do cyclops justice though there just wasn't enough time or material

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:22 PM   #571
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

Cyclops was going to have a big part after Jean's death and return in X3. It's just unfortunate how things turned out. I believe Singer will fix things and Cyclops and Jean will appear in DoFP, even as cameos as a result of the fixed timeline, so don't worry, this is a big reunion, do you think Singer will not bring back Cyclops and Jean? :P

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Old 05-05-2013, 06:29 PM   #572
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Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion - Part 1

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On the other hand, a cynic could interpret that line as Wolverine giving Storm an order a la TLS.
Well, there was definitely a power struggle between Storm and Logan in X3. The bottom line is Logan doesn't "play well with others."

Jean was dead and apparently that had incapacitated Scott to the point where all he could do was mope around his room in grief. Which left Storm in command and training. Since Scott was out of the picture, in the opening scene (Danger Room) Logan challenged Storm constantly. When he was leaving the Mansion for X-Mansion, Storm challenged him back and they "tussled" over his feelings for Jean. At that point, Storm basically told him "Get your s*** together." By time the final battle rolled around they were essentially sharing the leadership role, with Logan on lead with tactical. Considering the scale of the battle I think Storm felt a bit overwhelmed. The deleted scenes showed a waaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful Storm, creating tidal waves, etc. but the stupid editors reduced her to spending her ENTIRE DAMN TIME fighting with Callisto (as if!).

However, at the end of X3, it was Storm--flanked by Beast and Ice Man who flung open the school's doors to welcome new students. So in the conclusion, Storm was in charge with Logan--forever the loner--on the sidelines again watching her.

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:20 PM   #573
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I'm not entirely sure I would characterize Cyclops as needing to be charismatic or exciting. Those are two terms I have never associated with the character.
I guess it's sort of similar to all those romantic movies where the main character is supposed to be considered geeky and unattractive by the other characters. Yet, they can't hire a genuinely unappealing actor since they still need the audience to like the character. It's a difficult balancing act. Cyclops should be interesting and charismatic from the audience's point of view even if the other characters see him as an boring dork.

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:29 PM   #574
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I guess it's sort of similar to all those romantic movies where the main character is supposed to be considered geeky and unattractive by the other characters. Yet, they can't hire a genuinely unappealing actor since they still need the audience to like the character. It's a difficult balancing act. Cyclops should be interesting and charismatic from the audience's point of view even if the other characters see him as an boring dork.
^ This.

Everyone else in X1 seemed more capable of leading the X-Men from the audience's point of view - Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry, Famke Janssen. James Marsden seemed more like he should've been a student next to Shawn Ashmore or one of the other youngsters.

And by the time you got to X3, there were actors like Kelsey Grammar. Why would the audience be convinced that everyone else should follow James Marsden of all people? It just wouldn't ring true.

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:38 PM   #575
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I guess it's sort of similar to all those romantic movies where the main character is supposed to be considered geeky and unattractive by the other characters. Yet, they can't hire a genuinely unappealing actor since they still need the audience to like the character. It's a difficult balancing act. Cyclops should be interesting and charismatic from the audience's point of view even if the other characters see him as an boring dork.
To an extent. Though, I think people tend to look at what happened to Cyclops in the original trilogy and, in an attempt to make up for perceived mistakes, run too far with it in the other direction. Yes, Cyclops needs to have some appeal or presence, but he is by no means an affable leading man, in my opinion.

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^ This.

Everyone else in X1 seemed more capable of leading the X-Men from the audience's point of view - Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry, Famke Janssen. James Marsden seemed more like he should've been a student next to Shawn Ashmore or one of the other youngsters.

And by the time you got to X3, there were actors like Kelsey Grammar. Why would the audience be convinced that everyone else should follow James Marsden of all people? It just wouldn't ring true.
I think there's a fair point to be made about Marsden's age, but I don't agree that Janssen's Jean Grey, and especially Berry's Storm, come off as even remotely more capable leaders in X-Men. I would still place Marsden's Cyclops ahead of those two.


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