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Old 04-17-2013, 01:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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Jonathan Kent...."I have to believe that you were sent her for a reason."

Jor-el....."You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will ?rise? (I think) behind you. They will stumble, they will fall, but in time they will join you in the sun. In time you will help them accomplish wonders."

To me that reads as a pre-destined "saviour of Earth" Superman.

Also and not necessarily a negative, does Kal-el leave Krypton prior to Zod's trial and sentencing, as we see Zod in manacles on what appears to be Krypton threatening ..."You believe your son is safe?.......I WILL FIND HIM?"
Yes it seems that Jor-el sent off Kal-el before he sentenced Zod, maybe thanks to the whole bioengineering thing rather than to save his life thanks to a dying planet.

I don't know...it's does jive with the story of Moses a little more like this though. Instead of Kal-el escaping because his planet was about to be destroyed, he was escaping a society where his life was probably in danger because of him being born free and not engineered into a certain path, like Moses being born while the Pharaoh ordered all Hebrew baby boys to be killed.

Well see how it plays out...it is quite intriguing. I wonder how Zod figures into this.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

There are and always have been lots of Moses parallels in the Superman origin story.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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I like it used sparingly but effectively, like Lex's WROOOOOOOOONG in Superman Returns. Spacey's Lex was just the right sort of over-the-top without being annoying.
I very much disliked Spacey's performance in Returns. It didn't click with me at all. In general I like Spacey as an actor though and if he were allowed to do more than dark Hackman Lex I think he would have done good work. I was never a fan of that "wrong" scene either. I don't want to turn this into a bash a 7 year old movie a-thon as I hate the obsession with bashing Returns but I had to bring it up to respond to your post.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

maybe..........Krypton doesn't explode??

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #30
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

I like the trailer but will Superman get revenge on the truck (or whatever the vehicle was) that didn't wait for him?

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #31
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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I very much disliked Spacey's performance in Returns. It didn't click with me at all.
Me neither. The only on-screen Lex I ever liked was Michael Rosenbaum's Lex from Smallville. Damn, he was good.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

I believe they've already stated outright that it does explode. But I do think it's a possibility that Kal-El is sent to Earth for other reasons, like to escape a Civil War. That might be the reason Jor-El and Lara staying behind; to try and save their home world. But if they can't (and as we know, they ultimately don't) at least they made sure their son is safe.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #33
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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maybe..........Krypton doesn't explode??
I think it definitely will.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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Me neither. The only on-screen Lex I ever liked was Michael Rosenbaum's Lex from Smallville. Damn, he was good.
Oh I loved that performance too. So sinister and so many facets of his character.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:10 PM   #35
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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Me neither. The only on-screen Lex I ever liked was Michael Rosenbaum's Lex from Smallville. Damn, he was good.
Same here. Smallville got a ton of sh** wrong, but I can't never fault them for Lex. Rosenbaum was awesome in that role and the character was written perfectly, at least in the first few seasons.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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I believe they've already stated outright that it does explode. But I do think it's a possibility that Kal-El is sent to Earth for other reasons, like to escape a Civil War. That might be the reason Jor-El and Lara staying behind; to try and save their home world. But if they can't (and as we know, they ultimately don't) at least they made sure their son is safe.
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...5&postcount=23

On Krypton, being born purely of nature, Kal-El would have fallen victim to predetermination, prophecy, radicalism and fear.

On Earth, as an alien, he can be free.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

The side discussions ripping on the Man of Steel trailer in the Iron Man threads are hilarious.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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http://forums.superherohype.com/show...5&postcount=23

On Krypton, being born purely of nature, Kal-El would have fallen victim to predetermination, prophecy, radicalism and fear.

On Earth, as an alien, he can be free.
Maybe, but... wouldn't he also fall victim to all of that AS an alien on Earth?

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:13 PM   #39
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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Maybe, but... wouldn't he also fall victim to all of that AS an alien on Earth?
Earth still has a chance to not follow the same 'advanced' path as Krypton. That may be the whole point.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

Perhaps. It just seems like it would be replacing one problem with the same problem. Though I guess on Earth, he'd at least be invulnerable, so that's something.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #41
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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The side discussions ripping on the Man of Steel trailer in the Iron Man threads are hilarious.
If by hilarious you mean stupid, sad and embarrassing then I agree.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #42
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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The side discussions ripping on the Man of Steel trailer in the Iron Man threads are hilarious.
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Originally Posted by James_Smith View Post
Look, if people say stuff like "Man of Steel is going to own 2013" on an Iron Man board then you can expect a reaction...

The fact of the matter is this: from the trailers; Iron Man 3 looks FUN and Man of Steel looks DULL. Because of that, I wouldn't be surprised if Iron Man 3 makes double what Man of Steel does at the BO.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #43
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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Me neither. The only on-screen Lex I ever liked was Michael Rosenbaum's Lex from Smallville. Damn, he was good.
I adore Rosenbaum's Lex. I'm not saying this to be cool or difficult and I respect other people's opinions but I was never a fan of Hackman's Lex. The villian I dug in the original films was Zod.

Hackman's Lex and dark Hackman/Spacey Lex aren't my cup of soda. It's smallville or the animated 90's series Lex for me.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #44
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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I don't know if anyone's brought this up...and I'm kinda' hoping that it is the case...


...but in the trailer when Jor-El/Lara say "He'll be an outcast....they'll kill him." "He'll be a God to them.." Unlike the Brando 'destiny' part of STM...would they be talking about Krypton instead? It's been pointed out that Kal-El's birth is special in that it is natural and not engineered. So it's sort of like Children Of Men in terms of being a miracle that he was born. So the implication is how it will change things on Krypton...that Krypton will see him as different or God-like or a source of fear. And that could be what starts up a huge 'holy war' and leads to his escaping, Zod's obsessive search for him, and ultimately the destruction of Krypton.


I'd also be kind of an interesting reversal in that he escapes a place where he has some sort of destiny or symbolism...a source of awe and/or fear and jealousy and the desire to possess his power...to a place where he could 'start from scratch'....where the 'imagine a child...' part of Jor-El's speech really means something, as opposed to the almost religious radicalism that would meet his existence on Krypton.

I hope that's the case, and it also puts a lot of those 'STM-like' points on Krypton in a whole new light. I honestly thing that really would put a cool spin on this whole thing.

When you think of Krypton, were talking a world much more 'advanced' than ours...but tat may not necessarily be a good thing. As technology and science has grew, so has religious (for lack of a better term) radicalism as a 'yin to that yang', so to speak. Zod could very well be a reflection of history's greatest radical zealots using a twisted sense of 'faith' or ideology to attain power. It only stands to reason that in a society where natural birth doesn't happen, this would be seen as a sign or miracle...and just the sort of thing radical zealots would want to capitalize on. Or...Zod is threatened by the power and influence implied by the miracle birth, rendering his ideology obsolete.....so he seeks to eliminate it by killing Kal-El, which he may portray as an unholy abomination.

Hence..."You think your son is safe...?" "I will find him!", and essentially a Kryptonian Jihad launched by Zod.

We see that giant mecha 'Kraken' thing....that could be something that Zod launches as a weapon, but it goes out of control and ends up destroying the whole planet. So he escapes, or is protected by being caught and banished to the Phantom Zone, and eventually follows Kal-El to Earth to finish what he set out to do on Krypton: either possess his as an ally or kill him as a threat to their power.


O the other hand, I kinda' hope it isn't true because I just ruined the surprise. Just some random musings.
wow.

That is such an interesting point, they really could be talking about krypton not earth. I guess being the only one on the planet that has free will as to who they want to be...could be the most dangerous thing. It would also mean that Kal-el is the source of Krypton's doom...possibly foreshadowing Kal-el's presence inciting a similar response on earth. A presence of such a messianic figure on earth would likely cause wars and policial disagreements as well.

I would think maybe Zod would be part of the camp that feels threatened by Kal-el, threatened at what someone with such free will could do to a society like theirs, As Joker would say "upset the established order". and in finding that the child has been sent away, his promise to Jor-el to right what he believes is wrong (aka Kal-el).

Which makes me wonder, why go for him after Krypton is destroyed? Would it be revenge, would he blame Kal-el for Krypton tearing itself apart...all of this would make Zod a far FAR more interesting character than he was in Superman II. Especially if he does feel a bit of guilt in unwittingly destroying Krypton with his monster....using that to destroy earth and kal-el would be the ultimate tipping off point.

Anyway excellent post, I actually really hope you are right, because it would make the film infinitely more exciting than i thought it would be.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:18 PM   #45
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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And speaking about Grace, a serious film doesn't mean it's going to be dark and gritty.
There's nothing dark and gritty about the new trailer, imo. Nothing. It looks glossier than The Avengers.

Grace is nitpicking. She doesn't want to like Nolan/Snyder's Superman. She even said JJ Abrams would be a better choice. I mean, c'mon... Abrams' Superman was emo as ****.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:18 PM   #46
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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Perhaps. It just seems like it would be replacing one problem with the same problem. Though I guess on Earth, he'd at least be invulnerable, so that's something.
Yeah, and again, I think that is the point.....a chance to do things over. And with his being so powerful, it's an even greater test for us.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

The constant DC/Marvel bickering is so annoying. I've never understood why some people believe that if you like one, you have to hate the other. Why is it so hard for people to enjoy both?

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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There's nothing dark and gritty about the new trailer, imo. Nothing. It looks glossier than The Avengers.

Grace is nitpicking. She doesn't want to like Nolan/Snyder's Superman. She even said JJ Abrams would be a better choice. I mean, c'mon... Abrams' Superman was emo as ****.
And Abrams Superman also had a ton of crap like Ty-Zor, Jor-El gutting himself, super kung-fu, and Lex Luthor turning out to be an alien.

Grace is an idiot.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:20 PM   #49
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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #50
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

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The constant DC/Marvel bickering is so annoying. I've never understood why some people believe that if you like one, you have to hate the other. Why is it so hard for people to enjoy both?
There is no rational explanation. Its one of the dumbest phenomena in the known universe.

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