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Old 04-18-2013, 10:16 PM   #226
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Well my friend, if that was the case, Marvel should've been smarter and used one of IM's NUMEROUS nobody villains rather than ruin his greatest adversary. Even worse, play the "Mandarin" up to get the REAL fans excited about this movie and then lay this crap on us?! What did they think? We were gonna sit there and laugh it off and say it's "a genius twist"? They offended and basically made one of the premiere villains in the Marvel Universe into a damn joke and I'm supposed to have my wishes all shut up because of this continuous need to dumb down Marvel physics/science/magic for the General Audience's sake?

Every year I take my entire family to see every Marvel movie. Its an event for us. Thank God almighty I read the spoilers otherwise I would've popped a vein in the theater in rage! I've been Marvel's biggest supporter but this was the final straw. They lied to all of us (longtime fans) and thought that we'd all be ok with it? I'm done. Take your sorry excuse for an Iron Man coated Lethal Weapon movie Marvel and shove it. This from someone who drops $200+ a month on your books and watched all your movies in theaters no less than 8 times each. Thanks for your loyalty to you're real fans. Hopefully your flash in the pan fans remember your characters when your movies wear out their welcome.



There had to get that off my chest.
Really? REALLY? Ok:

1) They did not RUIN The Mandarin. They are doing an interpretation that you (and a few others) don't care for. He's still in the comics the same way he's always been. They haven't gone and retro-actively retconned him into being the Ben Kingsley version.

2) Marvel Studios is not trying to scam you in anyway. Feige and Black aren't sitting up in Doctor Doom's castle twirling their mustaches and saying "Yes...YES...how do you like us now you fools?!" They did what they felt they had to do to make an outdated and potentially racially insensitive character work on screen. And just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad decision. They did not lie to you. It is not a slight against you. Stop acting so entitled.

3) And finally, you're clearly looking for a reason, for whatever reason, to jump ship on this franchise. This is by no means the first time they've drastically differed from the comic books, nor will it be the last.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:17 PM   #227
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

This place is morphing into the Batboards.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:17 PM   #228
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

But it's DIFFERENT from the comics. HOW. DARE. THEY.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:24 PM   #229
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

Again, this whole Mandarin situation is because Marvel Studios is trying to sell this film to the Chinese market.

They went out of their way to not offend the Chinese in every way possible.

They even filmed those Chinese exclusive scenes.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:24 PM   #230
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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So who's excited for Iron Man 3?

I'm still excited for Iron Man 3, just disappointed in the Mandarin thing.


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Old 04-18-2013, 10:32 PM   #231
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Again, this whole Mandarin situation is because Marvel Studios is trying to sell this film to the Chinese market.

They went out of their way to not offend the Chinese in every way possible.

They even filmed those Chinese exclusive scenes.
So? As long as the twist works within the context of the movie and Movie!Mandarin is still a well-written character what does it matter that he's not the same character from the comics. None of the characters in this franchise have been, and as a matter of fact the Tony Stark of the films and the Tony Stark of the comics are vastly different. I don't recall anybody getting their nickers twisted about that.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #232
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Really? REALLY? Ok:

1) They did not RUIN The Mandarin. They are doing an interpretation that you (and a few others) don't care for. He's still in the comics the same way he's always been. They haven't gone and retro-actively retconned him into being the Ben Kingsley version.

2) Marvel Studios is not trying to scam you in anyway. Feige and Black aren't sitting up in Doctor Doom's castle twirling their mustaches and saying "Yes...YES...how do you like us now you fools?!" They did what they felt they had to do to make an outdated and potentially racially insensitive character work on screen. And just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad decision. They did not lie to you. It is not a slight against you. Stop acting so entitled.

3) And finally, you're clearly looking for a reason, for whatever reason, to jump ship on this franchise. This is by no means the first time they've drastically differed from the comic books, nor will it be the last.
1. Yes they did. Not in the comics, but in the film. We have been waiting to see this character on screen for YEARS. Regardless of how the character is played by Kingsley, they have ruined him by making the Mandarin a non existent character within the film itself.

2.That's fine. They have done it with ALL of the characters they have presented and will present on film. and by it, I mean revise them to work better on film. and yes we shouldn't feel entitled to getting exact versions from the comics. HOWEVER, just because we aren't entitled to an exact version, doesn't mean they have the right or should make a mockery of the character by making him a chararicatrure of "anarchy and terrorism" within the film he's appearing in. Again, the character doesn't even exist within the context of the film itself!

3. No one is looking for a reason to jumpship on a franchise. If someone loves a character, they will stick by that CHARACTER, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with, like, and/or accept when an adaptation of the character is radically different and borderline to flatout disrespectful to the source material. and even if its not the first time or last time, it doesn't make it right for them to do it nor does it mean we have to accept it.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #233
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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I'm still excited for Iron Man 3, just disappointed in the Mandarin thing.

There's more things wrong with this movie than the Mandarin thing, but that's definitely the biggest.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:36 PM   #234
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

People aren't complaining that the Mandarin isn't the Fu Manchu type from the comics. The problem is that people have been waiting for a true Mandarin showdown(complete with his ten rings) against Iron Man since the first movie, and after he's been teased so much for two movies this seemed like the movie that would give that to us. Turns out he's not even the real main villain, and doesn't have that big showdown against Iron Man using his rings(unless I'm mistaken about that part).

That's like Surtur finally being announced as the big villain in Thor 3, but he never has a huge showdown with Thor and he turns out to actually just be a magical manifestation of the Enchantress, who was the real main villain the entire time.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:38 PM   #235
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Really? REALLY? Ok:

1) They did not RUIN The Mandarin. They are doing an interpretation that you (and a few others) don't care for. He's still in the comics the same way he's always been. They haven't gone and retro-actively retconned him into being the Ben Kingsley version.

2) Marvel Studios is not trying to scam you in anyway. Feige and Black aren't sitting up in Doctor Doom's castle twirling their mustaches and saying "Yes...YES...how do you like us now you fools?!" They did what they felt they had to do to make an outdated and potentially racially insensitive character work on screen. And just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad decision. They did not lie to you. It is not a slight against you. Stop acting so entitled.

3) And finally, you're clearly looking for a reason, for whatever reason, to jump ship on this franchise. This is by no means the first time they've drastically differed from the comic books, nor will it be the last.

I preface this by stating I was giving my opinion and thus didn't want to get involved in a back and forth....whatever happens now is on you........


1. Interpretation? hmph. So at some point in the Mandarin's history he was INTERPRETED in the manner that he was in the movie??? Yeah, NO. Point in fact....when you use a character from any written work you do as much possible to show them in any of a myriad of incarnations they may have come in. You don't make one up. Further, yes they lied because Shane Black said he wouldn't use the Mandarin, then felt the uproar, then came up with this trailer to appease and fool all at once.


2. I'm entitled? Who's on here preaching why I should change my point of view??? I wasn't asking you share my view. I was simply stating it as we are still in America. Apparently someone here doesn't like dissent.

And racist? Are you kidding me??? Mandarin is Asian! The fact that someone in this movie takes this title without being of the proper background is more offensive than if he were the original Chinese.

3. Now you're a mind reader?! Wow. Prof X lives! Who do you think you are to suggest that I "was looking for a way out of this franchise?" Is this franchise a prison? I've been collecting for 27 years ok. If I wanted to bail, I would've a LONG time ago. I can adapt. The middle east instead of China? Fine. Lies, I will not tolerate.

Entitled....this from someone who has to tell me what I'm thinking and then attempt to correct my thoughts??? Check your ego at the door bud.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:40 PM   #236
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Again, this whole Mandarin situation is because Marvel Studios is trying to sell this film to the Chinese market.

They went out of their way to not offend the Chinese in every way possible.

They even filmed those Chinese exclusive scenes.
I think that is a big reason of why they changed Mandarin. Yes, he is one of the greatest arch-enemy of Iron Man, but he was also created using racially-insentitive stereotypes (which is why Mandarin used to look like Fu Manchu). And in today's box office market, if you cannot sell your film to the Chinese market then you will lose hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide.

It's clear why they went out of their way of pleasing the Chinese audience in IM3, by casting some well-known Chinese actors in this movie and have some collaboration with the Chinese entertainment industry; it is because the main villain is Mandarin, and they knew that if they don't do something the Chinese moviegoers WILL be offended, and the Chinese government may not even allow IM3 to appear in their multiplexes. Although I don't know what the twist is yet exactly, I have a good feeling what it is and in this case I think they are justified in changing Mandarin the way they did. Personally, I think it would've been better if they had just use another villain instead of Mandarin, but if they're including him then some modification must be made.

I hope fans of Iron Man will understand and accept it for what it is. They don't need to like it, but they should recognize it as something that has to be done this way for creative and financial reasons.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:43 PM   #237
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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1. Yes they did. Not in the comics, but in the film. We have been waiting to see this character on screen for YEARS. Regardless of how the character is played by Kingsley, they have ruined him by making the Mandarin a non existent character within the film itself.

2.That's fine. They have done it with ALL of the characters they have presented and will present on film. and by it, I mean revise them to work better on film. and yes we shouldn't feel entitled to getting exact versions from the comics. HOWEVER, just because we aren't entitled to an exact version, doesn't mean they have the right or should make a mockery of the character by making him a chararicatrure of "anarchy and terrorism" within the film he's appearing in. Again, the character doesn't even exist within the context of the film itself!

3. No one is looking for a reason to jumpship on a franchise. If someone loves a character, they will stick by that CHARACTER, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with, like, and/or accept when an adaptation of the character is radically different and borderline to flatout disrespectful to the source material. and even if its not the first time or last time, it doesn't make it right for them to do it nor does it mean we have to accept it.
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People aren't complaining that the Mandarin isn't the Fu Manchu type from the comics. The problem is that people have been waiting for a true Mandarin showdown(complete with his ten rings) against Iron Man since the first movie, and after he's been teased so much for two movies this seemed like the movie that would give that to us. Turns out he's not even the real main villain, and doesn't have that big showdown against Iron Man using his rings(unless I'm mistaken about that part).
Hey, I'm not trying to deny you guys the the right to be upset, I'm aware that something like this can be disappointing. I get it and the way you feel is fine, even if I don't share your opinion.

But when you start going on a semi-psychotic rant saying things like "**** you Marvel/Disney, my family and I trusted you and you LIED TO US! I'm taking my ball and going home" then I'm gonna have a problem. It was a completely unwarranted reaction and I'd bet a large sum of money that it's also false. He's gonna see the movie just like we all are.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:47 PM   #238
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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So? As long as the twist works within the context of the movie and Movie!Mandarin is still a well-written character what does it matter that he's not the same character from the comics. None of the characters in this franchise have been, and as a matter of fact the Tony Stark of the films and the Tony Stark of the comics are vastly different. I don't recall anybody getting their nickers twisted about that.

Friend, the movie Stark (or version they chose) can be pinpointed to any number of the characterizations he's gone through throughout his history. RDJ is a fan. Thus, he chose the version he wanted to play. The difference? His version exists in the character's history. Any long time reader knows that.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:50 PM   #239
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Hey, I'm not trying to deny you guys the the right to be upset, I'm aware that something like this can be disappointing. I get it and the way you feel is fine, even if I don't share your opinion.

But when you start going on a semi-psychotic rant saying things like "**** you Marvel/Disney, my family and I trusted you and you LIED TO US! I'm taking my ball and going home" then I'm gonna have a problem. It was a completely unwarranted reaction and I'd bet a large sum of money that it's also false. He's gonna see the movie just like we all are.
Seriously, dude veered straight into parody with "popped a vein in rage". At that point he might as well be on a bad SNL skit.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:50 PM   #240
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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I think that is a big reason of why they changed Mandarin. Yes, he is one of the greatest arch-enemy of Iron Man, but he was also created using racially-insentitive stereotypes (which is why Mandarin used to look like Fu Manchu). And in today's box office market, if you cannot sell your film to the Chinese market then you will lose hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide.

It's clear why they went out of their way of pleasing the Chinese audience in IM3, by casting some well-known Chinese actors in this movie and have some collaboration with the Chinese entertainment industry; it is because the main villain is Mandarin, and they knew that if they don't do something the Chinese moviegoers WILL be offended, and the Chinese government may not even allow IM3 to appear in their multiplexes. Although I don't know what the twist is yet exactly, I have a good feeling what it is and in this case I think they are justified in changing Mandarin the way they did. Personally, I think it would've been better if they had just use another villain instead of Mandarin, but if they're including him then some modification must be made.

I hope fans of Iron Man will understand and accept it for what it is. They don't need to like it, but they should recognize it as something that has to be done this way for creative and financial reasons.

But thats the thing, thats how he WAS. The character has been reinvented multiple times and the more current versions were/are perfectly acceptable to use in a movie.

Plain and simple, Black didn't want do it that. Marvel Studios didn't make him.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:50 PM   #241
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

I'm still going out on a limb and saying it was all an act, with Mandarin coming back eventually, and being revealed that he actually manipulated Killian hard...and the whole fiege "have to see multiple times thing" hints at small clues that show killian's mind actually being taken over

callin it...

er..

hoping for it

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #242
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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I think that is a big reason of why they changed Mandarin. Yes, he is one of the greatest arch-enemy of Iron Man, but he was also created using racially-insentitive stereotypes (which is why Mandarin used to look like Fu Manchu). And in today's box office market, if you cannot sell your film to the Chinese market then you will lose hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide.

It's clear why they went out of their way of pleasing the Chinese audience in IM3, by casting some well-known Chinese actors in this movie and have some collaboration with the Chinese entertainment industry; it is because the main villain is Mandarin, and they knew that if they don't do something the Chinese moviegoers WILL be offended, and the Chinese government may not even allow IM3 to appear in their multiplexes. Although I don't know what the twist is yet exactly, I have a good feeling what it is and in this case I think they are justified in changing Mandarin the way they did. Personally, I think it would've been better if they had just use another villain instead of Mandarin, but if they're including him then some modification must be made.

I hope fans of Iron Man will understand and accept it for what it is. They don't need to like it, but they should recognize it as something that has to be done this way for creative and financial reasons.

I like your explanation. However, CA TFA didn't change the Germans into Aliens did it? If the Chinese want to see our movie, suck it up. If not, don't watch it. I'm Latino. If a Latin villain were to be used, you better believe I'd want him exactly as he was created on film. My race doesn't govern me.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:52 PM   #243
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Friend, the movie Stark (or version they chose) can be pinpointed to any number of the characterizations he's gone through throughout his history. RDJ is a fan. Thus, he chose the version he wanted to play. The difference? His version exists in the character's history. Any long time reader knows that.
I really don't want to continue an argument with you. It'll probably just get heated and taken to the point where we both get infractions. You're earlier comment struck a nerve and the way I responded was a tad harsh. My bad, I apologize.

Continuing on the conversation though, the only iteration of Stark I'm familiar with that even comes close to being like RDJ's performance is Ultimate Tony Stark. So if you're counting him I'll concede to your point.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:54 PM   #244
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I'm still going out on a limb and saying it was all an act, with Mandarin coming back eventually, and being revealed that he actually manipulated Killian hard...and the whole fiege "have to see multiple times thing" hints at small clues that show killian's mind actually being taken over

callin it...

er..

hoping for it
This. I REAAALLY hope they say that the rings DO have power and he was manipulating Killian, and maybe even Tony at some point, with the mind control (mento-intensifier?) ring.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:54 PM   #245
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

As a long-time (since 1974) Marvelphile, I have a sincere question I'd like to ask the ones who are shocked and appalled at Mandarin's portrayal in this movie:

.....where the **** have you alleged Mandarin "fans" been hiding these past five decades???

Seriously. NOBODY has been a goddamn fan of that Fu Manchu stereotype *ever.* If they were, I would've seen Mandarin cosplays at all the comic-cons. I would've seen Mandarin on Top 10 lists of favorite Marvel villains anywhere on the interwebs. I would've seen Mandarin action figures and Heroclix and trading cards and other merch, and I would've seen them selling like hotcakes because he's, you know, so damn popular in Marvel fandom. (insert: )

Mandarin has *never* been a popular villain. Ever. Iron Man's rogues gallery is notoriously lame amongst fandom; Hulk is the only one with a worse villain lineup than Tony Stark. Mandarin has been Stark's *most common* adversary, but to grant him the status of "nemesis" is to elevate him to the likes of The Joker, Lex Luthor, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Red Skull, Magneto or Sinestro, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Hell, even the cartoons that have tried to portray Mandarin have wound up not knowing a decent way to portray him, and they've all wound up making him look even more ridiculous than he already is in the comics.

And all the over "zomg Mandarin isn't Chinese....they're just sucking up to the Chinese markets...." Good god. Favs already established that Mandarin --- if and when he ever showed up --- wouldn't be Chinese. Since 2008, Ten Rings has been yer basic Islamofascism 101 jihadists, based in Afghanistan. We knew damn well from IM1 that Mandarin was implicitly a Middle Eastern terrorist instead of a funky Chinese Fu Manchu.

Look, if any of you whiners want to make "The Mandarin Twist" (sounds like it could be pretty good, with some vodka and rum) a dealbreaker and go ahead and boycott, feel free. But quit acting like they've ruined some "cherished" Marvel icon....they haven't. Instead, they took a highly offensive, moronic and outdated Asian stereotype that Stan Lee would rather just sweep under the rug and they turned him into a topical character that makes the Iron Man series more contemporary and relevant. If you can't see that and accept it, then you really never understood what they're trying to do with the MCU in the first place.

Just had to get that off *my* chest.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #246
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

Does Tony primarily use the Mark 42 in the final battle?

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #247
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
As a long-time (since 1974) Marvelphile, I have a sincere question I'd like to ask the ones who are shocked and appalled at Mandarin's portrayal in this movie:

.....where the **** have you alleged Mandarin "fans" been hiding these past five decades???

Seriously. NOBODY has been a goddamn fan of that Fu Manchu stereotype *ever.* If they were, I would've seen Mandarin cosplays at all the comic-cons. I would've seen Mandarin on Top 10 lists of favorite Marvel villains anywhere on the interwebs. I would've seen Mandarin action figures and Heroclix and trading cards and other merch, and I would've seen them selling like hotcakes because he's, you know, so damn popular in Marvel fandom. (insert: )

Mandarin has *never* been a popular villain. Ever. Iron Man's rogues gallery is notoriously lame amongst fandom; Hulk is the only one with a worse villain lineup than Tony Stark. Mandarin has been Stark's *most common* adversary, but to grant him the status of "nemesis" is to elevate him to the likes of The Joker, Lex Luthor, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Red Skull, Magneto or Sinestro, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Hell, even the cartoons that have tried to portray Mandarin have wound up not knowing a decent way to portray him, and they've all wound up making him look even more ridiculous than he already is in the comics.

And all the over "zomg Mandarin isn't Chinese....they're just sucking up to the Chinese markets...." Good god. Favs already established that Mandarin --- if and when he ever showed up --- wouldn't be Chinese. Since 2008, Ten Rings has been yer basic Islamofascism 101 jihadists, based in Afghanistan. We knew damn well from IM1 that Mandarin was implicitly a Middle Eastern terrorist instead of a funky Chinese Fu Manchu.

Look, if any of you whiners want to make "The Mandarin Twist" (sounds like it could be pretty good, with some vodka and rum) a dealbreaker and go ahead and boycott, feel free. But quit acting like they've ruined some "cherished" Marvel icon....they haven't. Instead, they took a highly offensive, moronic and outdated Asian stereotype that Stan Lee would rather just sweep under the rug and they turned him into a topical character that makes the Iron Man series more contemporary and relevant. If you can't see that and accept it, then you really never understood what they're trying to do with the MCU in the first place.

Just had to get that off *my* chest.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:57 PM   #248
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^^ This place seriously needs a "Like" button...

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:58 PM   #249
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

sam I think that's the first time you've gone on a rant and I've agreed with it 100%

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:58 PM   #250
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spideysays View Post
CA TFA didn't change the Germans into Aliens did it?
No, it got rid of Nazis entirely! 2010 callback y'all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Mandarin has *never* been a popular villain. Ever. Just had to get that off *my* chest.


Condolences to those who are disappointed, but Jesus H please try to rein in the nerdrage a bit.

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