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Old 04-18-2013, 11:52 PM   #276
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
As a long-time (since 1974) Marvelphile, I have a sincere question I'd like to ask the ones who are shocked and appalled at Mandarin's portrayal in this movie:

.....where the **** have you alleged Mandarin "fans" been hiding these past five decades???

Seriously. NOBODY has been a goddamn fan of that Fu Manchu stereotype *ever.* If they were, I would've seen Mandarin cosplays at all the comic-cons. I would've seen Mandarin on Top 10 lists of favorite Marvel villains anywhere on the interwebs. I would've seen Mandarin action figures and Heroclix and trading cards and other merch, and I would've seen them selling like hotcakes because he's, you know, so damn popular in Marvel fandom. (insert: )

Mandarin has *never* been a popular villain. Ever. Iron Man's rogues gallery is notoriously lame amongst fandom; Hulk is the only one with a worse villain lineup than Tony Stark. Mandarin has been Stark's *most common* adversary, but to grant him the status of "nemesis" is to elevate him to the likes of The Joker, Lex Luthor, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Red Skull, Magneto or Sinestro, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Hell, even the cartoons that have tried to portray Mandarin have wound up not knowing a decent way to portray him, and they've all wound up making him look even more ridiculous than he already is in the comics.

And all the over "zomg Mandarin isn't Chinese....they're just sucking up to the Chinese markets...." Good god. Favs already established that Mandarin --- if and when he ever showed up --- wouldn't be Chinese. Since 2008, Ten Rings has been yer basic Islamofascism 101 jihadists, based in Afghanistan. We knew damn well from IM1 that Mandarin was implicitly a Middle Eastern terrorist instead of a funky Chinese Fu Manchu.

Look, if any of you whiners want to make "The Mandarin Twist" (sounds like it could be pretty good, with some vodka and rum) a dealbreaker and go ahead and boycott, feel free. But quit acting like they've ruined some "cherished" Marvel icon....they haven't. Instead, they took a highly offensive, moronic and outdated Asian stereotype that Stan Lee would rather just sweep under the rug and they turned him into a topical character that makes the Iron Man series more contemporary and relevant. If you can't see that and accept it, then you really never understood what they're trying to do with the MCU in the first place.

Just had to get that off *my* chest.
If I could 'like' this post I'd do it a billion times.

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Old 04-18-2013, 11:53 PM   #277
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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And that is why I can't get behind this twist. The possibilities of seeing a Mandarin ring battle are gone, not to mention the character got screwed. I wish the twist was done in a way to still leave the door open for the Mandarin. The Red Skull wasn't as cool as he could have been in CA, but at least they left the door open for his character by sending him somewhere into the cosmos for a later reappearance. Though I guess the Mandarin technically didn't exist in the MCU to get screwed in the first place.
He exists. Either Ben Kingsley plays the Mandarin or it turns out that Guy Pierce was Mandarin the whole time. Either way he's still in it.

And nobody knows for sure how it ends, so keep hope alive.

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Old 04-18-2013, 11:54 PM   #278
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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I like your explanation. However, CA TFA didn't change the Germans into Aliens did it? If the Chinese want to see our movie, suck it up. If not, don't watch it. I'm Latino. If a Latin villain were to be used, you better believe I'd want him exactly as he was created on film. My race doesn't govern me.
HYDRA was derived from Nazis, not Germans, and there's a big distinction between the two in Hollywood. Nazis have been used as the token villain for years, and they are perceived as part of the Third Reich and Hitler's army, and in a way separate from Germans. That's why they can be used in many movies, almost like they're the personification of evil.

Mandarin, on the other hand, was originated using very negative Chinese stereotypes. Yes, I know that he has been reinvented many different times, but having a name like Mandarin will still elicit some bad feedbacks from the Chinese moviegoers. To use your example, it'd be like creating a villain named "Latino" and designed him with many Latino's negative stereotypes. It's a very sensitive issue.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:00 AM   #279
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

So what actually happens to
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Kingsley's
character in the end?
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Whoever he is.
Is that all wrapped up in a neat bow or left open ended?

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:00 AM   #280
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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He exists. Either Ben Kingsley plays the Mandarin or it turns out that Guy Pierce was Mandarin the whole time. Either way he's still in it.

And nobody knows for sure how it ends, so keep hope alive.

That's what I'm saying, though. If Ben Kingsley is the Mandarin, then he's a drunken idiot so the chances of him ever using the actual rings in a future movie are low. Unless he's just acting like a drunken idiot in IM3 and is actually cunning. And if Pierce is the Mandarin then that's even further away from the character than Kinglsey's version is and even his version is still pretty close because at least he has the rings(even though they're probably fakes). Not to mention Killian/Mandarin is supposedly dead after IM3.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:01 AM   #281
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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BTW- So the MCU is trying to modernize Marvel concepts. Strange that their biggest success is so closely attuned to the original comic. Go figure huh?
Avengers changed plenty from the source material. I don't remember seeing the Pyms anywhere in that movie.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:01 AM   #282
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
As a long-time (since 1974) Marvelphile, I have a sincere question I'd like to ask the ones who are shocked and appalled at Mandarin's portrayal in this movie:

.....where the **** have you alleged Mandarin "fans" been hiding these past five decades???

Seriously. NOBODY has been a goddamn fan of that Fu Manchu stereotype *ever.* If they were, I would've seen Mandarin cosplays at all the comic-cons. I would've seen Mandarin on Top 10 lists of favorite Marvel villains anywhere on the interwebs. I would've seen Mandarin action figures and Heroclix and trading cards and other merch, and I would've seen them selling like hotcakes because he's, you know, so damn popular in Marvel fandom. (insert: )

Mandarin has *never* been a popular villain. Ever. Iron Man's rogues gallery is notoriously lame amongst fandom; Hulk is the only one with a worse villain lineup than Tony Stark. Mandarin has been Stark's *most common* adversary, but to grant him the status of "nemesis" is to elevate him to the likes of The Joker, Lex Luthor, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Red Skull, Magneto or Sinestro, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Hell, even the cartoons that have tried to portray Mandarin have wound up not knowing a decent way to portray him, and they've all wound up making him look even more ridiculous than he already is in the comics.

And all the over "zomg Mandarin isn't Chinese....they're just sucking up to the Chinese markets...." Good god. Favs already established that Mandarin --- if and when he ever showed up --- wouldn't be Chinese. Since 2008, Ten Rings has been yer basic Islamofascism 101 jihadists, based in Afghanistan. We knew damn well from IM1 that Mandarin was implicitly a Middle Eastern terrorist instead of a funky Chinese Fu Manchu.

Look, if any of you whiners want to make "The Mandarin Twist" (sounds like it could be pretty good, with some vodka and rum) a dealbreaker and go ahead and boycott, feel free. But quit acting like they've ruined some "cherished" Marvel icon....they haven't. Instead, they took a highly offensive, moronic and outdated Asian stereotype that Stan Lee would rather just sweep under the rug and they turned him into a topical character that makes the Iron Man series more contemporary and relevant. If you can't see that and accept it, then you really never understood what they're trying to do with the MCU in the first place.

Just had to get that off *my* chest.
bravo. the greatest thing youve ever posted. lol. i agree completely. sure we were all excited about him being a potential villain. but seriously the mandarin has never been that big of a villain. I cant say that im too disappointed. Plus like it or not, the makers of this film respected the mandarin enough to have him be played by a great actor and it seems like he gives a great performance. So im pretty satisfied
once again, great post

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:07 AM   #283
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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Originally Posted by Quasimod0 View Post
bravo. the greatest thing youve ever posted. lol. i agree completely. sure we were all excited about him being a potential villain. but seriously the mandarin has never been that big of a villain. I cant say that im too disappointed. Plus like it or not, the makers of this film respected the mandarin enough to have him be played by a great actor and it seems like he gives a great performance. So im pretty satisfied
once again, great post
I'd actually say Justin Hammer and his family are probably Stark's greatest foes. Too bad they ruined Hammer in the MCU and won't likely use him again.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:09 AM   #284
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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I don't know, it seems to me that it'll be a cathartic moment for the character, and perhaps it'll tie into his emotional arc in the film (which seems to be built around the idea that he has trouble letting certain things go)

Although I guess you're right that it makes more sense to assume that it's pointless and stupid and to TYPE IN ALL CAPS
Also it's GOODBYE FOR RDJ who prolly won't be back. Let's see how everyone feels when Ashton Kutcher takes over, eh?

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Its ok though. I leave you to your cherished IM 3 and hope you enjoy the heck out of it!
We will, kthx bye^^

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I was angry. typing in caps helps display that. sue me.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:09 AM   #285
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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That's what I'm saying, though. If Ben Kingsley is the Mandarin, then he's a drunken idiot so the chances of him ever using the actual rings in a future movie are low. Unless he's just acting like a drunken idiot in IM3 and is actually cunning. And if Pierce is the Mandarin then that's even further away from the character than Kinglsey's version is and even his version is still pretty close because at least he has the rings(even though they're probably fakes). Not to mention Killian/Mandarin is supposedly dead after IM3.
*Sigh* Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of how it seems like it's going to play out either. But, it'll be well acted and from all accounts they pull it off pretty well, so I'm reserving judgement until I watch it all happen.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #286
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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*Sigh* Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of how it seems like it's going to play out either. But, it'll be well acted and from all accounts they pull it off pretty well, so I'm reserving judgement until I watch it all happen.

I'll do the same.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:16 AM   #287
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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That's what I'm saying, though. If Ben Kingsley is the Mandarin, then he's a drunken idiot so the chances of him ever using the actual rings in a future movie are low. Unless he's just acting like a drunken idiot in IM3 and is actually cunning. And if Pierce is the Mandarin then that's even further away from the character than Kinglsey's version is and even his version is still pretty close because at least he has the rings(even though they're probably fakes). Not to mention Killian/Mandarin is supposedly dead after IM3.
What I've gotten out of it is, "The Mandarin" is this idea Killian cooks up for a terrorist figure to use in the media. So he hires a washed up, boozed up actor to play the "role", and Tony finds out it's just an actor at some point. And then towards the end of the movie, Killian takes credit for it and says he's "the real Mandarin" as he cooked up the idea for it and is responsible for all of it, in front of and behind the scenes. But really it's just a character he came up with

But again I haven't seen the movie, that's just what I've gotten out of all the spoilers

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:20 AM   #288
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

It'd be cool if they keep the Mandarin going where Kingsley like finds some actual powered rings and then in a rush of power decides to actually embody the image he was falsely portraying.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:20 AM   #289
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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What I've gotten out of it is, "The Mandarin" is this idea Killian cooks up for a terrorist figure to use in the media. So he hires a washed up, boozed up actor to play the "role", and Tony finds out it's just an actor at some point. And then towards the end of the movie, Killian takes credit for it and says he's "the real Mandarin" as he cooked up the idea for it and is responsible for all of it, in front of and behind the scenes. But really it's just a character he came up with

But again I haven't seen the movie, that's just what I've gotten out of all the spoilers
Sounds probable. Good call.

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I'll do the same.
YAY! Jumping to conclusions is exhausting. I try to avoid it as much as possible.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:23 AM   #290
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

Edit: Nvm

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:40 AM   #291
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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It'd be cool if they keep the Mandarin going where Kingsley like finds some actual powered rings and then in a rush of power decides to actually embody the image he was falsely portraying.

That would be incredibly lame. The Mandarin needs to be someone brilliant, with the rings as the cherry on top. Having an actor find the rings would miss the point of the Mandarin completely.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:45 AM   #292
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

Alright, pretending to follow others' logic here... The Mandarin comic character sucks but they decided to use him anyway in the movie and pulled the rug out from underneath "him". So/But is Guy Pearce amazing in his "cameo"?

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #293
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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That would be incredibly lame. The Mandarin needs to be someone brilliant, with the rings as the cherry on top. Having an actor find the rings would miss the point of the Mandarin completely.
him posing as a lunatic, while secretly controlling Killian VIA extremis, making the world think Killian was the mastermind is certain brilliant...I'm banking on it. Not because of the character, but because of the hype, and the fact that he was in the movie

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:51 AM   #294
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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That would be incredibly lame. The Mandarin needs to be someone brilliant, with the rings as the cherry on top. Having an actor find the rings would miss the point of the Mandarin completely.
I tend to disagree, but to each their own I guess.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:01 AM   #295
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The Mandarin in the comics is an aristocrat who spends all of his fiefdom's money turning himself into a perfect ubermensch warrior. He bankrupted himself and by extension all the people he ruled to do this. He's a metaphor for the industrial-military complex. That's his origin and that's what defines him. Finding the rings is almost an aside with that character.

If you make him an actor who finds the rings, you destroy the most important part of his origin.

He is not Ring-Man.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:08 AM   #296
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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The Mandarin in the comics is an aristocrat who spends all of his fiefdom's money turning himself into a perfect ubermensch warrior. He bankrupted himself and by extension all the people he ruled to do this. He's a metaphor for the industrial-military complex. That's his origin and that's what defines him. Finding the rings is almost an aside with that character.

If you make him an actor who finds the rings, you destroy the most important part of his origin.

He is not Ring-Man.
this may be true, but I'll just re-hash a point that has been mentioned multiple times over the past 5 or so pages: This is not the comics, it is the film universe and things are going to change. If making him "ring-man" as you say works better within the context of the film universe rather than the brash, power hungry whatever then that's the better route to go. And if it's already established that a Mandarin is in the MCU now (Killian or Kingsley) then they clearly aren't going to adapt the original comic origin if they ultimately decide to continue the Mandarin character.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:28 AM   #297
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Yes, but they are clearly trying to keep the spirit alive by making Kilian a part of the military industrial complex who is brilliant and who is eating up people's lives to make himself more of a warrior ubermensch. They've kept the spirit of the character even if they haven't kept the rings.

Your idea would keep the rings but lose the spirit of the character by making it an actor who finds them.

Your idea is the exact reverse of how they do things in movies, as they prioritize spirit over superficial details.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:28 AM   #298
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

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He is not Ring-Man.
No, he's also a 60's asian sterotype who's apparent vast popularity is apparently only now being discovered.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:32 AM   #299
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Yes, but they are clearly trying to keep the spirit alive by making Kilian a part of the military industrial complex who is brilliant and who is eating up people's lives to make himself more of a warrior ubermensch. They've kept the spirit of the character even if they haven't kept the rings.

Your idea would keep the rings but lose the spirit of the character by making it an actor who finds them.

Your idea is the exact reverse of how they do things in movies, as they prioritize spirit over superficial details.
I'm all for either route I suppose as long as it's executed well on screen. That's if they even decide to keep up the Mandarin character past this film.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:36 AM   #300
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

Again can anyone PLEASE whose seen the film answer:

Can Anyone describe in spoilers please how Ellen Brandt is in the movie? Does she totally beat the **** out of Tony in the film? I hear Tony has multiple run ins with her and she totally kicks his ass?

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