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Old 04-18-2013, 03:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Whatever, the end of TDKR is one of my fav endings of all time and I say this as a hardcore batman fan as well. I don't care what others think, Batman is written in the comics to never retire and always want to carry on because they have copies of comics to sell forever.
You misunderstand my point. You can like TDKR's ending as much as you want. Your opinion and I don't have a problem with that. But to say that it stays true to the essence of Batman is absurd and objectively false.

I just love how you treat Bruce's dedication to Batman as something that writers invented over the past few years of the modern era just so that they could keep Batman ongoing. It has been there since the character's inception. Another reason they don't retire Batman is because you can still tell great stories with Bruce. What would be the point to retire him? Yes, money is a reason but that is because great storytelling will determine sales and since you have so much story potential left with Bruce, there is no reason to retire him. Are you really just going to rub Bruce's devotion to Batman as meaningless and say the only thing keeping him away from retirement is sales and that his story and character means nothing?

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I don't get people who say "lackluster ending" though. The man comes in and gives a different ending, something that isn't "batman on a rooftop going on forever" which happens in every Batman movie and will continue to happen for another century. He does something different PLUS he actually gives a happy ending to Bruce so he doesn't have to return to Gotham where all the root of his pain is. A happy ending. People should want at least one story where Bruce finds happiness even for a short amount of time, if they truly care about the character's well being. It's like you want the character to suffer for eternity. Yeaaah yeaaah it's in his character. For a long period of time absolutely, but it's still a load of crap because writers don't attempt this kind of thing because they'd get fired from a job. Don't chalk it up to purely "writing choices for the character". Im not that naÔve.
First, you missed an entire point I made. YOU CANNOT GIVE BATMAN A FINAL HAPPY ENDING IF YOU PLAN TO INCLUDE THAT SAME BATMAN INTO A SHARED UNIVERSE! You can't have your cake and eat it too. Batman needs ongoing solo films if you're going to have a DC shared universe because him and Superman are the characters that will have to consistently have movies. From the second you decide to bring Bruce's journey to an end to the point where you can only have him in JL films, having Batman in a shared universe is an idea that goes bye-bye.

Second, there are ways to give Batman a happy ending without destroying the essence of Batman and it has been done before. Frank Miller did this in The Dark Knight Returns. Batman has a different view on life than we do; the thing that makes him happy is knowing that he is doing good in the world. What Nolan did to Batman was a happy ending for us if we were in Batman's shoes but that wouldn't be a happy ending for Bruce. In The Dark Knight Returns, we see Bruce finally getting to leave a happy quiet life by retiring as Batman but the essence of Batman is not disrespected in the book because he plans to train all the Sons of the Batman so that they continue his legacy (unlike Blake) in the horrible Post-Cold War world of the book. Miller manages to make Bruce find happiness without abandoning his Batman side in TDK Returns. Last line of the book is even Bruce saying that this new life will be a good life for him from now on. That is far different from what Nolan did. Nolan literally went against everything Batman is about.

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And then in JL if Bale were to return after said happy ending (there's ur Batman from the comics who doesn't retire right?) Then ud still nitpick. I guess u cant win .
Because it would be stupid and forced in. It wouldn't be a natural choice for him to come out; just stupid PIS so that WB can have Bale as Batman on the team.

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I guess there's different interpretations of Batman. Not any one of us is wrong. Therefore ill stick with Nolans Superman and Batman as a pair thank you.
Interpretations is one thing. Going against the essence of the character is another thing. No goodinterpretation has ever went completely against the essence of Batman. There is no excuse whatsoever for what Nolan did. Once again, if you like the ending, fine. If you think it works for the movie, fine. But if you try to argue that it works for Batman, then that is objectively false because it doesn't for reasons I already covered.

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I'm always open to a reboot. But it's a bit too soon when Christian Bale is only 39 years old and Michael Keaton was in his 40s during Batman Returns. Im looking at RDJ and Daniel Craig in their mid to late 40s and the success theyre having with Avengers and Skyfall and YES im thinking "a reboot is too soon when u can make billions right this moment with this guy over here".
Unless the actor looks ridiculously old, age doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not you can naturally continue a version of Batman and which version of Batman would fit better for the future (which would be the rebooted version).

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

Nolan didn't make this easy on us. A lot of fans want Bale back.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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About that last part, Shikamaru. He wasn't talking about the comics, he said on film. Forget the comics, it's used for inspiration yes, but this is a different medium. It will never be exactly like the comics.

The "deep stories" from the comics are irrelevant to the discussion, we're talking about what Nolans Bat films offered to all audiences, including the general public who don't read comics yet saw these movies.

We just feel that it's bizarre to have a Nolanized Superman with a non-Nolan more comic booky Batman when we have a Nolan-Batman right in front of us. Now, Nolan/Bale saying no is a whole other thing, but there's still a year or two left to convince him. If it's not happening already and just kept hush hush.

I say this, somebody should ask Nolan about this subject and if he gives his January type answer where he smiles and says no comment, or he cant discuss that...then we'll know this is one big smoke screen. If he gives a straight detailed answer then fine but even then I wouldn't trust it until we get a press release.
You can still offer different deep stories. Since when has the GA ever been against that?

Also, why the hell do you keep assuming that this is a Nolanized Superman? This clearly isn't the case if you saw the last trailer. MOS is a mixed bag of all the things we've had in CBM's till now. Even Metropolis does not look like a city that exists in real life (Snyder even added tons of fake skyscrapers in there) where Gotham looked exactly like your normal Chicago.

This is Snyder's Superman; not Nolan's. Nolan himself has said this multiple times. It really annoys me that people keep referring to this as Nolan's Superman. It isn't. I knew this would happen though. That people would give Nolan most of the credit when he didn't even put in a quarter of the effort that Snyder did.

No offense to you but the whole "Nolan may still change his mind" thing that people keep saying sounds pitiful to me. It is essentially false hope. The chances of Nolan changing his mind are so small yet you guys continue lying to yourselves that a miracle can happen.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Thank you!

And to Shikamaru. Dude lighten up!

The thing about the TDKT is to treat it as an elseworlds interpretation of Batman. And Nolan and Goyer are your writers. And the basic plot of their story is "What if... Batman existed in our world." Like you turn on the TV and there are reports of a Bruce Wayne doing the billionaire playboy shenanigans. Here in our world.

Haven't you read any elseworlds stories? Superman All Stars? Dark Knight Returns? Ring any bells? Now take the basic premise of Batman and plonk it down in Chicago. That's what Nolan was going for.

This is not a strict interpretation of the comics! First off, If there was a billionaire who wanted to fight crime in the real world. they'd probably just hire mercenaries. Really, you'd have to be a complete psycho to dress up as a Bat and fight crime. And if you had a goal that was within your grasp and someone takes it away from you (plot of TDK) would that person just shrug it off and just keep going? Add to that someone you cared about dies. And you still keep going? No one man in the real world has that sort of dedication. And if you're a billionaire what would you do? Probably go to Vegas and have a bender. This Batman poses that question. Not a fictional/comics Batman, a Batman that exists here, with us.

The ending of TDKR? Brilliant! I liken it to someone finally getting off crack cocaine! How often does DC let their writers let Bruce Wayne walk away from Batman? Never! They've already killed him. But Bruce walking away? Only Nolan has done this! It should be celebrated. A slap in the face of the essence of Batman? You're worse than the DC Editorial! If there weren't people like Nolan, we'd be stuck reading or watching the same old stories over and over again! I bet you wouldn't like that!
There are so many things I find wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.


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Old 04-18-2013, 03:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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YOU CANNOT GIVE BATMAN A FINAL HAPPY ENDING IF YOU PLAN TO INCLUDE THAT SAME BATMAN INTO A SHARED UNIVERSE! You can't have your cake and eat it too. Batman needs ongoing solo films if you're going to have a DC shared universe because him and Superman are the characters that will have to consistently have movies. From the second you decide to bring Bruce's journey to an end to the point where you can only have him in JL films, having Batman in a shared universe is an idea that goes bye-bye.

Second, there are ways to give Batman a happy ending without destroying the essence of Batman and it has been done before. Frank Miller did this in The Dark Knight Returns. Batman has a different view on life than we do; the thing that makes him happy is knowing that he is doing good in the world. What Nolan did to Batman was a happy ending for us if we were in Batman's shoes but that wouldn't be a happy ending for Bruce. In The Dark Knight Returns, we see Bruce finally getting to leave a happy quiet life by retiring as Batman but the essence of Batman is not disrespected in the book because he plans to train all the Sons of the Batman so that they continue his legacy (unlike Blake) in the horrible Post-Cold War world of the book. Miller manages to make Bruce find happiness without abandoning his Batman side in TDK Returns. Last line of the book is even Bruce saying that this new life will be a good life for him from now on. That is far different from what Nolan did. Nolan literally went against everything Batman is about.
Yes you can, if Nolan says he can then he can. And don't give me that crap about Nolan doesn't want this to mix with that. Believe what you want, but I don't believe jack **** unless I see a press release about a new actor and I see some more proof on the matter. JL is years away and new deals can come up.

Batman does NOT need ongoing solo films at the same time as JL for a shared universe to work. Not if 3 films are out there already. For a reboot with a young Batman? Sure. But even then, they can get away with an exclusive Batman for JL only.

Destroying the essence of the character...you should hear yourself. You act like you know everything about the real batman and others who loved the ending of TDKR don't know what Batmans about. Give me a break.

There's nothing wrong with caring about Bruce's character enough to want something positive for his outcome in life. Giving Bruce a happy ending should be looked at as a gift from Nolan to the fans of his character. After all the crap he goes through for Gotham and torturing himself, and he saves the city from a nuke, gets to live a happy life away from the pain AND the legend lives on. It's no different than Bruce training others. It's a spin on that, because once again, it's his take (like each writer has their own) and it's film not the comics. Stop being a purist.

Nolan told a story of a Batman that could exist in our world and he's done the same with Superman. MOS is not the purist comic book Superman either.

It's emotional to see Bruce live to see a light at the end of the tunnel. We probably wont see it that again. That's wonderful imo. Batman fans should want variety and not the same old repetitive ending all the time. Thank god Nolan shook things up a bit because people like you would be boring people like me with ur endings that have no imagination.

Who says Blake wont be trained by Bruce like he does in Returns?? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

And going by what ur saying...TDKReturns was different from TDKRises...well yeah..because it's a different interpretation. Get over it. People change things in the comics too to suit their needs. It's called having a creative stamp.

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Interpretations is one thing. Going against the essence of the character is another thing. No goodinterpretation has ever went completely against the essence of Batman. There is no excuse whatsoever for what Nolan did. Once again, if you like the ending, fine. If you think it works for the movie, fine. But if you try to argue that it works for Batman, then that is objectively false because it doesn't for reasons I already covered.
Here we go again, going against the essence. Good is subjective. Yeah there's an excuse it's called he does what he wants and I see billions of people loving it in the process.

Your reasons haven't convinced me and never will. I thought it was not only right for the movies, it's right for Batman because not one writer owns the characters story.

If Nolan brings the character back after he gave him peace then ull have to deal with it and maybe u shouldn't watch JL then. If it's rebooted ill shut up and begin speaking about possibilities for that new interpretation.

Bruce coming back to fight alongside Superman doesn't spit on anything unless he goes back to Gotham to repeat the same things. If he does it to save the planet while Gotham needs protection from another figure, and Bruce no longer has that pain, he doesn't return to Gotham, maybe he even starts the League as his own League of Shadows...that sounds perfect. It would be a spin on the whole Batman inc concept or even the end of TDKReturns, he's scouting superheroes.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Yes you can, if Nolan says he can then he can. And don't give me that crap about Nolan doesn't want this to mix with that. Believe what you want, but I don't believe jack **** unless I see a press release about a new actor and I see some more proof on the matter. JL is years away and new deals can come up.

Batman does NOT need ongoing solo films at the same time as JL for a shared universe to work. Not if 3 films are out there already. For a reboot with a young Batman? Sure. But even then, they can get away with an exclusive Batman for JL only.

Destroying the essence of the character...you should hear yourself. You act like you know everything about the real batman and others who loved the ending of TDKR don't know what Batmans about. Give me a break.

There's nothing wrong with caring about Bruce's character enough to want something positive for his outcome in life. Giving Bruce a happy ending should be looked at as a gift from Nolan to the fans of his character. After all the crap he goes through for Gotham and torturing himself, and he saves the city from a nuke, gets to live a happy life away from the pain AND the legend lives on. It's no different than Bruce training others. It's a spin on that, because once again, it's his take (like each writer has their own) and it's film not the comics. Stop being a purist.

Nolan told a story of a Batman that could exist in our world and he's done the same with Superman. MOS is not the purist comic book Superman either.

It's emotional to see Bruce live to see a light at the end of the tunnel. We probably wont see it that again. That's wonderful imo. Batman fans should want variety and not the same old repetitive ending all the time. Thank god Nolan shook things up a bit because people like you would be boring people like me with ur endings that have no imagination.

Who says Blake wont be trained by Bruce like he does in Returns?? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

And going by what ur saying...TDKReturns was different from TDKRises...well yeah..because it's a different interpretation. Get over it. People change things in the comics too to suit their needs. It's called having a creative stamp.

Here we go again, going against the essence. Good is subjective. Yeah there's an excuse it's called he does what he wants and I see billions of people loving it in the process.

Your reasons haven't convinced me and never will. I thought it was not only right for the movies, it's right for Batman because not one writer owns the characters story.

If Nolan brings the character back after he gave him peace then ull have to deal with it and maybe u shouldn't watch JL then. If it's rebooted ill shut up and begin speaking about possibilities for that new interpretation.

Bruce coming back to fight alongside Superman doesn't spit on anything unless he goes back to Gotham to repeat the same things. If he does it to save the planet while Gotham needs protection from another figure, and Bruce no longer has that pain, he doesn't return to Gotham, maybe he even starts the League as his own League of Shadows...that sounds perfect. It would be a spin on the whole Batman inc concept or even the end of TDKReturns, he's scouting superheroes.
I guess Nolan wishes he would have killed Bruce instead of showing him in the cafe.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

Nah, they had that image in their mind since Begins. All the way back then they had the concept of Bruce living happily ever after.

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Old 04-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #33
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

Right. Say this is Bruce's story. What we worked out before shauner

Bruce and Selina have split up. Bruce works in a small town and receives physio therapy after getting a knee replacement operation a few months back.

He often reads the news on Gotham...always content that it's fine under the protection of the hero dubbed, Nightwing.

But being in other places and seeing conditions akin Gotham has left him uneasy. But still unwilling to go back to a former life he lead ..

But something is wrong...evil is on the rise. For a God on another planet has arrived on Earth and is set on bringing the prophesied "Apocalypse" to fruition.

Bruce feels the need to do something. ..to help once more. For he no longer needs Batman. But understands that the world does...and it needs more than just Batman to save it...as other heroes have realised too...

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
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4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Right. Say this is Bruce's story. What we worked out before shauner

Bruce and Selina have split up. Bruce works in a small town and receives physio therapy after getting a knee replacement operation a few months back.

He often reads the news on Gotham...always content that it's fine under the protection of the hero dubbed, Nightwing.

But being in other places and seeing conditions akin Gotham has left him uneasy. But still unwilling to go back to a former life he lead ..

But something is wrong...evil is on the rise. For a God on another planet has arrived on Earth and is set on bringing the prophesied "Apocalypse" to fruition.

Bruce feels the need to do something. ..to help once more. For he no longer needs Batman. But understands that the world does...and it needs more than just Batman to save it...as other heroes have realised too...

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Old 04-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

Thanks man

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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Right. Say this is Bruce's story. What we worked out before shauner

Bruce and Selina have split up. Bruce works in a small town and receives physio therapy after getting a knee replacement operation a few months back.

He often reads the news on Gotham...always content that it's fine under the protection of the hero dubbed, Nightwing.

But being in other places and seeing conditions akin Gotham has left him uneasy. But still unwilling to go back to a former life he lead ..

But something is wrong...evil is on the rise. For a God on another planet has arrived on Earth and is set on bringing the prophesied "Apocalypse" to fruition.

Bruce feels the need to do something. ..to help once more. For he no longer needs Batman. But understands that the world does...and it needs more than just Batman to save it...as other heroes have realised too...

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #37
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

Im back on the bandwagon

Reboot can come later and God bless it

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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Im back on the bandwagon

Reboot can come later and God bless it



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Old 04-18-2013, 05:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

So he calls Robin Blake and tells him since he's Batman and has the cave he can take care of it instead. He's given up on pain defining his life.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Yeah Man

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:29 PM   #41
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Let's make a deal guys (all the peeps who are on this Bale train)..we'll drop it as soon as it's confirmed AND I MEAN CONFIRMED, that a reboot is happening with a NEW batman, new actor for JL. Once that happens ill drop it in a second and ill definitely get excited for the new era.

But until then. Im taking that concept Rodrigo posted, and im running with it in my head.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:31 PM   #42
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Let's make a deal guys (all the peeps who are on this Bale train)..we'll drop it as soon as it's confirmed AND I MEAN CONFIRMED, that a reboot is happening with a NEW batman, new actor for JL. Once that happens ill drop it in a second and ill definitely get excited for the new era.

But until then. Im taking that concept Rodrigo posted, and im running with it in my head.
This could go on for years then.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:37 PM   #43
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This could go on for years then.
Possibly not Goyer is all ready writing the script.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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Let's make a deal guys (all the peeps who are on this Bale train)..we'll drop it as soon as it's confirmed AND I MEAN CONFIRMED, that a reboot is happening with a NEW batman, new actor for JL. Once that happens ill drop it in a second and ill definitely get excited for the new era.

But until then. Im taking that concept Rodrigo posted, and im running with it in my head.
Agreed

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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But until then. Im taking that concept Rodrigo posted, and im running with it in my head.
Ah shucks

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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:41 PM   #46
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Ah shucks
Literally, many how times do we see Batman & Catwoman on again off again relationship.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:41 PM   #47
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

I was just hoping all the Bale/Nolan talk would stay in the JL-Bale thread. Because it's been pretty much confirmed now that Nolan and Bale aren't coming back.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:46 PM   #48
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I do think its funny fans are able to accept Bruce coming out of retirement twice, recovering from a broken back by being punched, climbing out of what's practically the grand canyon, and surviving a nuke explosion , yet they think the idea of Bruce coming out of retirement a third time is beyond possibility or far out.

I mean these films are more grounded , but its not act like they were biopics or documentaries.
And as crazy stupid as this hairbrained idea may sound, who's to say he really even retired. For all we know he and Selina both maybe taking out the trash by fighting crime in the worst parts of Italy. From the shadows at least when possibly needed. Just saying it's not the worst thing in the world. Afterall, I'm assuming he still has at least one Bat-Suit in his possession. He was wearing it at the time he faked his death.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:46 PM   #49
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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I was just hoping all the Bale/Nolan talk would stay in the JL-Bale thread. Because it's been pretty much confirmed now that Nolan and Bale aren't coming back.
Till, I hear it confirmed from Bale/Nolan then I will truly believe it.

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Old 04-18-2013, 05:54 PM   #50
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation - Part 9

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I was just hoping all the Bale/Nolan talk would stay in the JL-Bale thread. Because it's been pretty much confirmed now that Nolan and Bale aren't coming back.
Nothing has been officially confirmed at this point! Robinov didn't exactly say in this recent statement that Batman was for certain gonna be rebooted. He just used words we could deem as cryptic.

ď[Christopher Nolanís] Batman was deliberately and smartly positioned as a stand-alone. The world they lived in was very isolated without any knowledge of any other superheroes. What Zack and Chris have done with this film is allow you to really introduce other characters into the same world."

Now just why in the hell would he say that in such a weird way? Without any knowledge of any other superheroes? Wouldn't it have just been easier to say Nolan's Batman was completely finished with TDKR....end of story!

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