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Old 06-18-2013, 12:44 AM   #426
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Loads from the silver and bronze ages.
Your opinion is validated then lol. I can't stand people that argue against the twist that have never read any Mandarin stories. To me, it's akin to someone complaining that the Hunger Games deviated away from certain aspects of the story who have never read the book.

Curiously, how would you have portrayed the Mandarin in the MCU?

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Old 06-18-2013, 12:46 AM   #427
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I enjoyed Man of Steel more. It was simply more. The thing it was lacking was jokes and out of costume stuff. Stuff fans usually complain about, which is funny, because critics love that stuff. Before I said Iron Man 3 would take the box office and MOS would be a better film. Now I'm not sure about either.

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I gotta wonder why Zod is such a moron though. I mean he's approaching Nero in ST1 levels of senselessness. Why insist that Earth be terra-formed? That's just asking for conflict that was completely unnecessary. Just tell Kal-El to give them the codex and then they'll go build New Krypton on another world. It's not like this version of Zod had any desire to rule over humanity. He didn't. He didn't even want to keep the unnatural powers they get from Earth's sun. Otherwise, why bother to terra-form at all if it's gonna just take away your powers?
Zod had issues. He was 'programmed' to be irrationally Krypto-phillic. No powers if it hurts the babies. Plus, he liked his genocides, and by the time Kal-El left his ship, it was personal. He didn't know he was the bad guy in a movie, so he didn't know that Kal-El stood a chance.

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Old 06-18-2013, 12:51 AM   #428
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

Kind of like a Keyser Soze-esque behind the scenes mastermind. Not someone who would go on TV and advertise his existence. Someone who's thought of as an urban legend amongst the criminal ranks. And someone who's motivations are more about the actual redistribution of political/economic and military power away from the western world and more towards Asia. Someone who could use technology designs he got from Vanko in IM2(10 Rings gangster scene) to pump more high tech black market shenanigans into the western world in hopes of causing chaos and it's eventual decline. I could see an Armor Wars movie there with Mandy being the ultimate cause behind it all.

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Old 06-18-2013, 12:54 AM   #429
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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I enjoyed Man of Steel more. It was simply more. The thing it was lacking was jokes and out of costume stuff. Stuff fans usually complain about, which is funny, because critics love that stuff. Before I said Iron Man 3 would take the box office and MOS would be a better film. Now I'm not sure about either.



Zod had issues. He was 'programmed' to be irrationally Krypto-phillic. No powers if it hurts the babies. Plus, he liked his genocides, and by the time Kal-El left his ship, it was personal. He didn't know he was the bad guy in a movie, so he didn't know that Kal-El stood a chance.

Superman was kinda dumb too. He had, in that scout ship, the prefect bargaining chip to make them leave. Get lost or I'll destroy the ship.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:08 AM   #430
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if we actually saw something like that in the future to be honest. I think writing in a 'true' Mandarin is still a likely possibility. After all, Killian wasn't behind the Ten Rings stuff, so who knows who really is. Could the real Mandarin been behind Killian, pissed that someone stole his moniker, etc. Just needs to take a little bit of clever writing, that's all. There's no way Feige hasn't taken notice that some fans were disappointed with the Mandarin they got, so I wouldn't be surprised if producing a more adapted approach took precedence in further IM sequels, especially if characters like Ghost and Madame Masque are already off the table.

I wouldn't mind a traditional approach like you mentioned with an Asian actor, or a contemporary take with a Middle Eastern Mandarin to correlate with the rest of IM's history being retconned from coldwar struggles with China to that of Iran/Iraq. But either way I think we see a more realistic approach to the character in subsequent sequels, even though I personally am fine with the take we got. I actually think that's twice as likely than us getting the return of Guy Pierce as 'The Mandarin'.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:19 AM   #431
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

That would totally under-cut the very message of IM3 though if they choose to cast a closer comic Mandarin.

Either way it's very unlikely they'll choose to go that road.

Also imagine how confused the general audience would be? So there's the 1st mandarin but he wasn't the real mandarin but the 2nd guy also wasn't the real mandarin, this is the real mandarin, who actually looks closer to the first guy.

It would be hilarious.


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Old 06-18-2013, 01:33 AM   #432
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If it was done in IM4 or 5, maybe. It wouldn't undue the message of terrorism and giving evil a 'face' at all if it was presented in an IM6 or 7 in the mid to late 2020's. The message of IM3 perfectly captured our conceptions in those areas at the time it was released. Don't see why an IM film in fifteen plus years would ruin this film's motifs, especially since the story was more about Tony Stark finding himself, more than a take on his relationship with the Mandarin character per-say.

IM is one of the few heroes that can claim to be a billion dollar player in Hollywood; they're not going to stop making these flicks. Even after Downey leaves, fans of his films won't stop being IM fans, necessarily. A drop off is inevitable, but IM now has a core fan base that will continue to see his movies. Given the anemic state of his rogue's gallery, seeing a 'true' Mandarin isn't an impossible notion, I'd argue it's a likely one.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:45 AM   #433
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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I wouldn't be surprised at all if we actually saw something like that in the future to be honest. I think writing in a 'true' Mandarin is still a likely possibility. After all, Killian wasn't behind the Ten Rings stuff, so who knows who really is. Could the real Mandarin been behind Killian, pissed that someone stole his moniker, etc. Just needs to take a little bit of clever writing, that's all. There's no way Feige hasn't taken notice that some fans were disappointed with the Mandarin they got, so I wouldn't be surprised if producing a more adapted approach took precedence in further IM sequels, especially if characters like Ghost and Madame Masque are already off the table.

I wouldn't mind a traditional approach like you mentioned with an Asian actor, or a contemporary take with a Middle Eastern Mandarin to correlate with the rest of IM's history being retconned from coldwar struggles with China to that of Iran/Iraq. But either way I think we see a more realistic approach to the character in subsequent sequels, even though I personally am fine with the take we got. I actually think that's twice as likely than us getting the return of Guy Pierce as 'The Mandarin'.

Why would they be off the table? I'd say they are the most likely candidates for the next film.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:52 AM   #434
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Why would they be off the table? I'd say they are the most likely candidates for the next film.
That's why I said they would be off the table, I'm assuming they'll be used sooner rather than later. Then after that, you would be hard pressed not to find a well known IM villain that's not a generic armored villain like Crimson Dynamo (kind of already used in IM2), Ultimo and Titanium Man among others. If ghost and Masque are in IM4/5, then I think Mandarin has a great chance of getting a different treatment over the likes of the Unicorn or the Controller.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:55 AM   #435
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That would totally under-cut the very message of IM3 though if they choose to cast a closer comic Mandarin.

Either way it's very unlikely they'll choose to go that road.

Also imagine how confused the general audience would be? So there's the 1st mandarin but he wasn't the real mandarin but the 2nd guy also wasn't the real mandarin, this is the real mandarin, who actually looks closer to the first guy.

It would be hilarious.
No more confused than having Quicksilver being played by different actors in the X-Men and Avengers franchises. If they play off the events of IM3, no way they couldn't do it.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:57 AM   #436
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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That's why I said they would be off the table, I'm assuming they'll be used sooner rather than later. Then after that, you would be hard pressed not to find a well known IM villain that's not a generic armored villain like Crimson Dynamo (kind of already used in IM2), Ultimo and Titanium Man among others. If ghost and Masque are in IM4/5, then I think Mandarin has a great chance of getting a different treatment over the likes of the Unicorn or the Controller.

I think you could see them in IM4 then in IM5 the real Mandarin shows up. Or split them up and have them be in IM4 and 5 and then in IM6 Mandy shows up.

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Old 06-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #437
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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That would totally under-cut the very message of IM3 though if they choose to cast a closer comic Mandarin.

Either way it's very unlikely they'll choose to go that road.

Also imagine how confused the general audience would be? So there's the 1st mandarin but he wasn't the real mandarin but the 2nd guy also wasn't the real mandarin, this is the real mandarin, who actually looks closer to the first guy.

It would be hilarious.
The only thing I can see along that route is if they bring back Guy Pearce and some how he survived, spending more time to make him the comic Mandarin. That's the only way it gets accepted. You can't just bring in another actor and say "forget what happened in the last film".

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Old 06-18-2013, 11:54 AM   #438
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No more confused than having Quicksilver being played by different actors in the X-Men and Avengers franchises. If they play off the events of IM3, no way they couldn't do it.
Apples =/= Oranges

Quicksilver is likely a very minor character in XDOFP, and it's unknown if they are going to link him to Magneto.

QS and SW are going to be major characters in Avengers 2, and no one is going to care what they were in DOFP.

Mandarin was a major character in IM3, and if they bring the character back to retcon everything they did in the last movie, will turn the casual movie goer off, who doesn't even know who the comic Mandarin is.

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Old 06-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #439
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The only thing I can see along that route is if they bring back Guy Pearce and some how he survived, spending more time to make him the comic Mandarin. That's the only way it gets accepted. You can't just bring in another actor and say "forget what happened in the last film".
Hell no, I don't want Blandy McBlandsville back again. Once was enough. And it's easy to make it work. His "I am the Mandarin" thing was simply a metaphor. Interpret it that way and we're all good. Just explain where he got the idea from. Some urban legend that even he didn't believe in connected to the 10 Rings organization, whose symbols he appropriated. It's not hard at all and it doesn't retcon IM3 in any way.

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Old 06-18-2013, 04:46 PM   #440
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I'm a diehard Iron Man fan and really only a casual fan of Superman, but I enjoyed MOS more than IM3. IM3 had some good ideas, but making Aldrich Killian the Mandarin was simply something that I'm just not a huge fan of and just hurt the movie for me. Especially since I think they could've easily have gone with a more faithful renditon of the character without him devolving into a Fu Manchu caricature.

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Old 06-18-2013, 07:42 PM   #441
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I thought Man of Steel was good, but Iron Man 3 was just superior in quite a few departments, such as pacing, score, and breather moments. I will say that MOS had much better looking fights.

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:19 AM   #442
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Enjoyed MoS a hell of a lot more on my second viewing. On first viewing I was really harsh on the movie because I was really bored by the final fight and that is what I took from the movie but the second viewing reminded me how good the first half of the movie is and it is very good.

MoS and IM3 disappointed me but I think all in all MoS highs are higher than IM3 and the lows of MoS aren't as low as IM3. Will get both movies on Blu ray.

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:22 AM   #443
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

Yeah seeing it a second time makes a big difference. I enjoyed it the first time around but was left with a feeling it could be better.

The 2nd viewing just made all the difference, being able to follow the fight scenes better was a huge plus, even in the quieter moments i was able to appreciate the acting and even some of the very subtle humor a bit more.

The film is gonna have great legs.

As for Iron Man 3 while it was arguably easier to follow along in my initial viewing i've never even really had a hankering to see it again in theaters? It just did not feel that memorable.

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:31 AM   #444
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Yeah seeing it a second time makes a big difference. I enjoyed it the first time around but was left with a feeling it could be better.

The 2nd viewing just made all the difference, being able to follow the fight scenes better was a huge plus, even in the quieter moments i was able to appreciate the acting and even some of the very subtle humor a bit more.

The film is gonna have great legs.

As for Iron Man 3 while it was arguably easier to follow along in my initial viewing i've never even really had a hankering to see it again in theaters? It just did not feel that memorable.
Will it have great legs though? I only saw the movie a second time because I had booked two nights in a row at IMAX weeks ago. If I hadn't I wouldn't have seen MoS twice I was that disappointed with the movie on first viewing. And on top of that World world Z comes out next week.

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:35 AM   #445
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

At the showing i was at (which was packed btw) i could tell a lot people were repeat viewers as well, just by over-hearing some of the conversations and the audience seemed to anticipate certain moments to come onscreen.

Its friday-sat-sun numbers were very steady with very little sat to sunday drop. I haven't been paying attention to the dailies though. I expect a very decent multiplier.

WWZ is a question mark at the moment, it could do great but has been pegged as a bomb going back a while.

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #446
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Monsters University may be a film where the kids drag their parents to see and that may hurt MOS, who knows. Ice Age did the same with TAS-M last year.

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Old 06-19-2013, 06:28 AM   #447
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

Neither film will have great legs, IMO. One thing I'll say is that both improved upon multiple viewings.

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Old 06-19-2013, 07:54 AM   #448
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I don't know what it is about superhero movies these days is I don't seem to be any enjoying any superhero movies right out the game (on first viewing).

ASM
MoS
TDKR
all movies that I enjoyed more on my second viewing and was a little reluctant to watch for a second time.
Unlike TDK, SM2 where I loved the movie straight out the gate and couldn't wait to watch multiple times.
I know it isn't me being jaded because I saw Dredd and loved it straight out of the gate. IM3 I just dislike and no amount of rewatching changed my mind.

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Old 06-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #449
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Neither film will have great legs, IMO. One thing I'll say is that both improved upon multiple viewings.

IM3 *already* has great legs. 1.2 billion of them. It's a frickin' millipede with that many legs. MoS is already facing a huge test against Monsters U and WWZ. I think it should be able to hold its own against WWZ (which, as said above, might turn into a megabomb anyway), but Monsters U, like most kiddie fare in summer, is probably a juggernaut in the making. Just depends on whether or not kids and families want funny this weekend, or action.

As to IM3 vs. MOS: I'm personally giving a slight edge to IM3. MOS was a great movie, and has the best super-action of any superhero movie anywhere, bar none (and yes, I include Avengers there); but what kept it from being spectacular, to me, was the poor writing. The direction and the acting were great, as were the vfx and the action. But the movie could've greatly benefited from cracking a smile every once in awhile instead of being so damn all the time. Too much earnestness and seriousness tend to bore the audience after awhile. You need *some* comic relief to offset too much drama; even Shakespeare understood that back in the 16th century. That, and the nonlinear structure was misplaced in this movie. I understand why Goyer did it, to an extent (Superman's story is one we all know by heart, so he figured it was okay to skip around a bit), but this is one of those occasions where the movie would have had more emotional resonance in a straightforward linear path.

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:11 AM   #450
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Man of Steel still hasn't been released in most other countries like Australia. So there's still a good chance it can maintain a good box office presence even with World War Z and Monsters University.

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