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Old 06-21-2013, 03:37 PM   #476
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I expected this element, from the worldengine to manifest as a secondary superman villain and not tentacles. It didn't bother me but it could have been better.

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Old 06-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #477
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I enjoyed both movies but I struggle to find much in Man of Steel that was better than Iron Man 3. IM3 was just a better made movie. The story, dialogue, humor, pacing, action sequences, etc. Didn't like the Mandarin twist? I'll raise you Lois having zero chemistry with Clark, Lois finding out he is Superman after a 4 minute montage, the mysterious perfectly fitting Superman suit, and some random soldier coming up with the Superman name out of the blue. Say what you will about the Mandarin but it was funny, bold, and unique. I knew what was going to happen in MoS before seeing the movie. I didn't expect to see Ben Kingsley taking a dump and drinking light lager. I didn't expect to be brilliantly trolled by movie advertising in a similar fashion as how the film Mandarin trolled the MCU United States. I like the Iron Man movies because they are satire in many ways and don't take themselves quite as seriously as other characters. It won't get credit for it on here but it's one of the more creative movies in the genre. A bizarre summer blockbuster Dr. Strangelove with Transformers, Terminators, buddy cops, and kid sidekicks. Complete with a weird video game version of a Mighty Mighty Bosstones-esque song as the closing credits.

MoS did have better cinematography and arguably a better musical score. That last bit is a bit closer though because they didn't cut MoS to take full advantage of the score. And nothing in MoS is cooler or more unique than 'Can You Dig it'/Closing credits. Some will claim the action in MoS was better but I disagree with this as well. The diversity of Iron Man 3's action sequences are some of the best in a superhero film and are very underrated. We saw Tony flying around the room with a gun like Neo, improvising weapons like MacGyver, suit jumping like he was a Transformer, saving people falling from an airplane like Superman, trying to save himself from Michael Bay's wet dream as his house explodes, and breaking into a compound like James Bond. In MoS, we got Superman blowing up a city and punching things. Truthfully, I don't know how they up the action once we get to some DC heavies in MoS2 or Justice League. They kind of blew their wad in the first movie.



I really like Cavill and I think Superman has a good future. I just think they are heading towards disaster if they continue on this Dark Knight path. The Dark Knight Rises looked like Old School in comparison to MoS, btw. That shouldn't be the case for a bright, uplifting character like Superman. Cut out the dark, speaking in themes, full of itself stuff. Superman isn't Batman. He's Thor. You need to make him fun and give him a good supporting cast. That has been one of the biggest faults of DC in handling Superman since the 1980s. He has nobody interesting to talk to aside from his dead dads. Every Superman ally has been vanilla and forgettable since the 80's. They dropped the ball here with Lois Lane TWICE. I don't know what it is about DC/WB but they do a horrible job casting females. Kate Bosworth, Amy Adams, Malin Akerman, Blake Lively,and Maggie Gyllenhaal. I thought Katie Holmes was great and Anne Hathaway pretty good. I've said it few times in the MoS forums but Thor is the film that DC should emulate. Thor and MoS are very similar movies and characters. The reason why Thor was successful with critics is it was funny and charming. You can balance humor with seriousness, contrary to popular belief on here. Thor had some of the more powerful scenes in any superhero film. It also had some of the most laughable and light-hearted.

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Old 06-22-2013, 11:54 PM   #478
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Iron Man 3 had a better script. Man Of Steel was better in every technical category. Man Of Steel had an overall better cast, though Iron Man 3 still had a great cast. I don't know what I would pick. I liked Iron Man 3's story and script better, but it didn't take itself seriously enough where as Man Of Steel took itself too seriously at times. I liked everything else about Man Of Steel at least a little better, but the story is a big deal and I prefer the Iron Man character over Superman. I don't know. They are both entertaining flawed films.

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Old 06-23-2013, 04:29 AM   #479
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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I enjoyed both movies but I struggle to find much in Man of Steel that was better than Iron Man 3. IM3 was just a better made movie. The story, dialogue, humor, pacing, action sequences, etc. Didn't like the Mandarin twist? I'll raise you Lois having zero chemistry with Clark, Lois finding out he is Superman after a 4 minute montage, the mysterious perfectly fitting Superman suit, and some random soldier coming up with the Superman name out of the blue. Say what you will about the Mandarin but it was funny, bold, and unique. I knew what was going to happen in MoS before seeing the movie. I didn't expect to see Ben Kingsley taking a dump and drinking light lager. I didn't expect to be brilliantly trolled by movie advertising in a similar fashion as how the film Mandarin trolled the MCU United States. I like the Iron Man movies because they are satire in many ways and don't take themselves quite as seriously as other characters. It won't get credit for it on here but it's one of the more creative movies in the genre. A bizarre summer blockbuster Dr. Strangelove with Transformers, Terminators, buddy cops, and kid sidekicks. Complete with a weird video game version of a Mighty Mighty Bosstones-esque song as the closing credits.

MoS did have better cinematography and arguably a better musical score. That last bit is a bit closer though because they didn't cut MoS to take full advantage of the score. And nothing in MoS is cooler or more unique than 'Can You Dig it'/Closing credits. Some will claim the action in MoS was better but I disagree with this as well. The diversity of Iron Man 3's action sequences are some of the best in a superhero film and are very underrated. We saw Tony flying around the room with a gun like Neo, improvising weapons like MacGyver, suit jumping like he was a Transformer, saving people falling from an airplane like Superman, trying to save himself from Michael Bay's wet dream as his house explodes, and breaking into a compound like James Bond. In MoS, we got Superman blowing up a city and punching things. Truthfully, I don't know how they up the action once we get to some DC heavies in MoS2 or Justice League. They kind of blew their wad in the first movie.



I really like Cavill and I think Superman has a good future. I just think they are heading towards disaster if they continue on this Dark Knight path. The Dark Knight Rises looked like Old School in comparison to MoS, btw. That shouldn't be the case for a bright, uplifting character like Superman. Cut out the dark, speaking in themes, full of itself stuff. Superman isn't Batman. He's Thor. You need to make him fun and give him a good supporting cast. That has been one of the biggest faults of DC in handling Superman since the 1980s. He has nobody interesting to talk to aside from his dead dads. Every Superman ally has been vanilla and forgettable since the 80's. They dropped the ball here with Lois Lane TWICE. I don't know what it is about DC/WB but they do a horrible job casting females. Kate Bosworth, Amy Adams, Malin Akerman, Blake Lively,and Maggie Gyllenhaal. I thought Katie Holmes was great and Anne Hathaway pretty good. I've said it few times in the MoS forums but Thor is the film that DC should emulate. Thor and MoS are very similar movies and characters. The reason why Thor was successful with critics is it was funny and charming. You can balance humor with seriousness, contrary to popular belief on here. Thor had some of the more powerful scenes in any superhero film. It also had some of the most laughable and light-hearted.
Agreed on most counts, particularly the bold.

I find that in most respects, IM3 and MoS are almost polar opposites. Most of what was done well in IM3 was done poorly in MoS by contrast, i.e. the acting, dialogue, story, pacing(especially transitions, good lord MoS had next to no scene transitions), character depth, levity, and most importantly...writing.

My biggest issues with Iron Man 3 were the awful epilogue and the hurried setup for the climax. There were a few things(some nitpicks, others not) that the comic arc did better that I would have preferred to see in the film as well, particularly the Extremis transformation, Tony's surgery/debilitating injuries, etc. If they really were hell bent on him losing the arc reactor, getting rejuvenated by a modded Extremis would've been a much more effective way to convey that to the audience, as what we got in the epilogue felt like a gift-wrapped, bowtie ending to me. Married up nicely with the Christmas theme of the movie I suppose, but I didn't like it at all. I also thought that the conflict between him and Pepper felt manufactured; this is one area where I think IM2 did it better. For the next film(if there is one), I'd rather they go the Avengers route and simply show them having a stable, loving relationship if they can't figure out a way to create believable turmoil that serves the plot. Other than these gripes, I found that there was a lot to like about the movie.

Man of Steel, on the other hand...was a chore to watch by contrast. For starters, I didn't appreciate how convoluted the story was. The plot was far too dependent on poorly constructed MacGuffins that had very little relevance otherwise, i.e. genesis chamber, codex, world engine, mind-probe, 'S' command key, scout ship, phantom drive, and so on. I'm sure there's more, but that's part of the problem - they're so numerous and trivial that they tend to get lost in the shuffle; it was just too much to swallow, especially considering how forgettable and poorly thought out they were.

The genetic engineering angle undermined the Kryptonian's motivations as well, from Jor-El and the 'council', to Zod and his cronies. How much of Jor El's benevolence was due to him being a genuinely good man, vice his programming? I'd ask the same of Zod's malevolence. It seemed as though these two had the personalities they did because it served the purposes of the script, and not necessarily because it matched up with their backgrounds. This is one area where simplicity would have been much more effective. I'd have an easier time taking Jor El seriously if I was under the impression that he was so righteous, loving, and benevolent due to his personal convictions and upbringing, rather than leaving it up in the air as to whether it was influenced by his programming to one degree or another. Once again, I feel the same way about Zod. Faora's terminatrix impersonation was eye-roll inducing, especially coupled with the trite, unimaginative dialogue(which plagued the entire film). This was an inconsistency for me, because the film never made it clear why she was so robotic in comparison to the others. The whole idea destroys every bit of intrigue I otherwise would've had for the Kryptonians. Also, the general incompetence of every Kryptonian called into question the effectiveness of the entire idea in the first place. Zod's entire scheme was so easily picked apart by Superman and his not-so-super friends, that his genetically enhanced tactical prowess was a wasted premise. Considering the context, one of the worst interpretations of a villain that the genre has ever had. Same for the council.

With all that being said, simplicity would've been a godsend for this film. Goyer & co. obviously bit off more than they could chew, as their incompetence with handling some of the more complex aspects of the plot clearly shows.

The tone did a disservice to the character and film as well. Barring the absence of levity from most of the film, the somber mood cheapened the emotional impact Snyder was going for in scenes that really needed it. With every scene being so heavy handed, bleak, and angsty, the emotional resonance just wasn't there. I couldn't appreciate any particular scene because they all felt the same. The weight was never there for the very simple fact that it was everywhere. This film serves as an example of how not to abuse excess; it successfully illustrates the old platitude 'too much of one thing is good for nothing'.

Certain creative choices were baffling. The tornado scene? I don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said, but it was just awful, from conception, to intention, to execution, it was a terrible idea that was in no way congruent with the characters or the story. This is yet another creative decision that undermines the message of a character, Jonathan Kent in this case. In spite of all his preaching to Clark about becoming his own man, showing restraint, changing the world, and doing the right thing, here he chooses preserving secrecy over the greater good. If anything, this scene should have taught Clark that his secrets are secondary to human life, and the film never makes it clear whether it should have been one or the other. Snyder & Goyer simply couldn't convey their messages effectively or coherently.

I'm starting to rant, so I'll stop here, but I've got a laundry list of problems with this film.

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Man Of Steel had an overall better cast, though Iron Man 3 still had a great cast.
All else being equal, I would agree with this, but in the case of these films, I think that the lesser cast did a much better job. There's no denying the ability of Crowe, Costner, Lane, Adams, and Fishburne(by comparison, Cavill is still very much an unknown quantity), but they simply weren't given much to work with, nor did Snyder get the most out of them. I think that the only good performances in MoS were from Russell Crowe and Kevin Costner, while the acting from the supporting cast and the leads was very deadpan. Cavill in particular had some of the most awkward delivery I've ever witnessed. He looks the part, but now it's time to work on his acting chops.


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Old 06-23-2013, 04:46 AM   #480
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Every time I see MoS (3 times now) I like the movie more but boy does that movie have problems. MoS is like ASM to me, not great movies by any stretch of the imagination but both movies have elements/scenes that I really really connect with.

A good movie should have a beginning, middle and end but what I'm taking away most from modern day reboots is a flawed first attempt but I really want to see a sequel without the burden of establishing the world they live in.

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Old 06-23-2013, 05:01 AM   #481
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Of the 2 films my feelings before the release of both were accurate, for myself anyway. I felt MoS was the better film, but IM3 would be the BO King between the 2 films.

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Old 06-23-2013, 03:43 PM   #482
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Of the two,I have to say I enjoyed IM3 more.

Having said that,I think Star Trek Into Darkness is my favorite film of the year so far.

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Old 06-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #483
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Of the two,I have to say I enjoyed IM3 more.

Having said that,I think Star Trek Into Darkness is my favorite film of the year so far.
Was really going with the movie until the forced tacked on final action sequence, a real tender moment ruined because the director wanted one more unnecessary action sequence.

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Old 06-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #484
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The acting has been rarely criticized actually and is usually high-lighted as one of the pluses. Most of the criticisms tend to fall on the pace and tone of the film.
I think the biggest criticism has been of the script, which was awful, with cringeworthy lines like "where do I tinkle?" or "Are you out of your f-ing mind?"

I think that's what the criticism was, not of the acting but the horrible dialogue. It's like Harrison Ford used to say of George Lucas, "you can type this **** but you can't say it."

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Old 06-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #485
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Well in this day and age, I'd rather Swanwick say "F-ing" instead of "freaking" or "fricking". Closest thing to the word **** that you can get.

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Old 06-24-2013, 06:38 PM   #486
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Of the two,I have to say I enjoyed IM3 more.

Having said that,I think Star Trek Into Darkness is my favorite film of the year so far.
Ditto, but ''This is The End” is my fave now, w/STID being in 2nd

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Old 06-24-2013, 06:57 PM   #487
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Enjoyed both films, but Iron Man 3 is a lot better.

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Old 06-24-2013, 07:45 PM   #488
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Well in this day and age, I'd rather Swanwick say "F-ing" instead of "freaking" or "fricking". Closest thing to the word **** that you can get.
He could have actually said the actual "f-ing". You can say it at least once in a pg-13 movie and he arguably should have.

My favorite scene in first class was wolverine telling xavier and magneto to "go **** yourselves" lol.

I think they assumed superman might attract a younger audience though?

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Old 06-24-2013, 08:22 PM   #489
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Wait, really? That means Nolan could have used the word at least once in each of his films.

I would've wanted that

I still wish Nolan even had his Batman call himself the goddamn Batman.

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Old 06-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #490
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I don't think the nolan batman films needed swear words or not, tbh it would have had no effect for me.

Also i am extremely pleased that ridiculous phrase wasn't used. There is nothing cool outside of how ironically dumb that saying is (which is the only reason it's become a popular meme). Truly frank miller at one of his lowest.

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Old 06-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #491
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Definitely Man of Steel for me. However its a bit of a different comparison for me. I think the first Iron Man bests Man of Steel easily. But by part 3, I'm suffering for too much exposure to Downey (who I've always thought was a great actor and adds a lot to any film). At time in IM3, I was fining the usually witty Downey to be coming off snarky and almost rude at points. I didn't find he had the charm he had in IM1 or even 2. I agree with most of the criticisms of MoS. I think they needed to flesh out the story and develop the characters better. I did however really enjoy Costner, and I really liked and connected to Cavill enough that i'd definitely see a sequel. I think just having Downey's screen time limited to the Avengers sequels is a good idea for now.

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Old 06-25-2013, 04:02 AM   #492
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I don't think the nolan batman films needed swear words or not, tbh it would have had no effect for me.

Also i am extremely pleased that ridiculous phrase wasn't used. There is nothing cool outside of how ironically dumb that saying is (which is the only reason it's become a popular meme). Truly frank miller at one of his lowest.
He's the Goddamn Batman and should call himself such!

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Old 06-25-2013, 05:06 AM   #493
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Iron Man 3 easily. Virtually nothing from Man of Steel resonated with me.

Well..Except for Faora.

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Old 06-25-2013, 11:10 AM   #494
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Iron Man 3 easily. Virtually nothing from Man of Steel resonated with me.

Well..Except for Faora.
I'm the opposite as I watched Iron man 3, I got more and more irritated with the film. They seemed to get almost nothing right and when they did failed to follow up properly with what they started. if it was my first marvel film , I would just assumed another " doesn't get superheroes" offering.
MOS while not flawless hit all my bells and whistles. As a Superman fan for over 40 years, This is the film and screen Superman I've been waiting to see. For meet it even beats out Thor as my 2nd favorite Superhero film, only exceeded by the Avengers.

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Old 06-25-2013, 11:47 AM   #495
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I'm the opposite as I watched Iron man 3, I got more and more irritated with the film. They seemed to get almost nothing right and when they did failed to follow up properly with what they started. if it was my first marvel film , I would just assumed another " doesn't get superheroes" offering.
MOS while not flawless hit all my bells and whistles. As a Superman fan for over 40 years, This is the film and screen Superman I've been waiting to see. For meet it even beats out Thor as my 2nd favorite Superhero film, only exceeded by the Avengers.
So wait. A Superman movie that has Superman being taught that the world will hate and fear him, wherein he has to ignore what his father taught him to become vaguely heroic, wherein a whole city gets destroyed as collateral damage without nary a blink from him, and where he solves moral dilemmas by killing them. . . is "getting Superman."

But an Iron Man movie where Tony's personal flaws bite him in the ass, he gets into conflicts with rival military-industrial barons, where he has to survive by his wits and intellect, and where ultimately he gets into a grand battle of his super science versus the bad guy's super science. . . is "not getting Iron Man."

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Old 06-25-2013, 01:51 PM   #496
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So wait. A Superman movie that has Superman being taught that the world will hate and fear him, wherein he has to ignore what his father taught him to become vaguely heroic, wherein a whole city gets destroyed as collateral damage without nary a blink from him, and where he solves moral dilemmas by killing them. . . is "getting Superman."

But an Iron Man movie where Tony's personal flaws bite him in the ass, he gets into conflicts with rival military-industrial barons, where he has to survive by his wits and intellect, and where ultimately he gets into a grand battle of his super science versus the bad guy's super science. . . is "not getting Iron Man."
But wait I saw different films than you.

You forgot the whole "when you are ready you will change the world" I guess. I feel the collateral damage has been addressed as more than nary a blink but Superman's desperate underdog battle against a foe who was going to destroy all humanity and who triumph if he let up for a second. Finally killing Zod a devastating choice between killing his foe and letting some innocents die that rocked him to his very core.

I guess you could call that a grand battle but of all the people I know who saw it only my son agrees with you. I actually prefer an effective iron man in my iron man movies. I loathed the original storyline and while this handled it better than the comics , the final battle was disappointing, frustrating and poorly done IMO. I got so tired of Iron man being basically powerless in this movie. In fact all the suits including Iron Patriot were junk which could be incapacitated at the least excuse. Lets not even get into kid sidekicks , false mandarins, villains who don't realize the best dramatic moment to be beaten, super Peppers and illogical clean up everything endings. it wasn't a horrible movie but it was bitterly disappointing compared to the other Marvel films

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:49 AM   #497
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He could have actually said the actual "f-ing". You can say it at least once in a pg-13 movie and he arguably should have.

My favorite scene in first class was wolverine telling xavier and magneto to "go **** yourselves" lol.

I think they assumed superman might attract a younger audience though?
Best use of the one F word a film deal bar none was X-Men: First Class. Cheers to whoever initially thought it up!

Had a chance to rewatch both films this weekend. IM3 is one of those films that gets better upon each viewing, while MOS gets a little, not boring, but less interesting. I have no doubt IM3 will age better, especially since the story hinges om acting and storytelling. It was Downey's best Tony Stark performance by far. He conveyed emotions he didn't in his other films.

I like films that entertain me while also keeping me stimulated, and IM3 was just a more intelligent film than MOS. The script was one of the strongest the MCU has produced. MOS was like the ASM for me. It was decent and had a great cast, but the character development was too patched up and the script was sloppy. I'm hopeful that both sequels (ASM, MOS) are better than the originals, otherwise I might check out on both accounts.


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Old 06-26-2013, 02:48 AM   #498
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I don't think the nolan batman films needed swear words or not, tbh it would have had no effect for me.

Also i am extremely pleased that ridiculous phrase wasn't used. There is nothing cool outside of how ironically dumb that saying is (which is the only reason it's become a popular meme). Truly frank miller at one of his lowest.

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Old 06-26-2013, 03:01 AM   #499
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People are really biased against DC movies and i don't really understand why. Iron Man 3 will age better because you can pop it anytime to laugh at the jokes and enjoy the action. If i'm gonna watch Man of Steel i better be invested in it. And i love this about DC. They are not pop corn flicks(except Green Lantern), even Man of Steel which is a hardcore sci fi movies and with all its ups and downs (mostly ups for me) its a deeper movie. Iron Man 3(i liked it btw) is false-deep unlike Iron Man 1. I couldn't buy Tony's trauma because even until the last minute of Avengers they were frustrated, sure but they were also cracking jokes and having a blast killing Aliens easly. The problem was that they were too many not that they were powerful.

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Old 06-26-2013, 03:39 AM   #500
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People are really biased against DC movies...
Of course they are. Yet you then go on to say...

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Originally Posted by NosfeRomas View Post
i love this about DC.They are not pop corn flicks(except Green Lantern)
...which takes away any impartiality you may have otherwise had. Forget about Jonah Hex? Steel? Catwoman? The Spirit? Who has a bias for or against what again? I think you need to temper your point of view with a bit of reality, because contrary to what you say, DC /= deep, thought provoking quality. Not all the time, anyway.

This line of thinking has become yet another platitude that people keep repeating because others kept repeating it. Think on it for more than a minute, and it unravels itself.

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