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Old 04-24-2013, 12:06 PM   #126
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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it appears he already has lol .
I believe I said that already.

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i just read on cosmicbooknews.com justice league is being planned for 2016 and both man of steel 2 and the batman reboot are being planned for 2017 so that is another reason to prefer Zack Snyder's man of steel over iron man 3 .
Man of Steel is "over" Iron Man 3 because MOS is starting a cinematic universe? Is it new to you that IM3 is part of a cinematic universe as well?

I can't say I understand your logic there.

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Henry Cavill going back and forth every 3 to 4 year's between playing superman will benefit him getting other roles maybe 007 and would also benefit the quality of his solo man of steel sequels movies better then say rushing out a sequel like marvel studios did with iron man 2 .


What a wonderful challenge to follow up Daniel Craig,’. ‘He has set the bar so high.’ Henry Cavill
Make my Bond Mr. Craig for a while. And while it would be controversial, I'd love to see Idris Elba take the role afterwards.

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Old 04-24-2013, 12:09 PM   #127
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Rather simplistic, but if you believe that, then hey, more power to you. It's never that black and white imo. A well written review is enough to allow the reader to make up his or her own mind. Having to tell someone to go see a film is just pandering. Let the studios and actors do that in the ads and press junkets. But a lot of critics are shills for the studios anyway.

I'm not sure one can really detatch themselves from their own personal bias, whether it be race, gender, politics, class, education, religon (or lack thereof) etc. I don't think that is the job of the critic (unless he wants to be liked or not hated). I would actually prefer more subjective reviews to the carbon copy, robotic, cut-out reviews that are becoming more prevalent. It's fast-food, all about the ABC's and film mechanics. A good reviewer should have a personal stake in the film. Essentially it's a dialogue. I'm not even sure there's really a point to being a critic of the arts if said person isn't going to engage his own personal experience and beliefs when reviewing a film. He may as well be into mathematics.
Detaching yourself from your biases is pretty easy once you are aware of them. Then you can give a review that's useful to people who do not share your biases. You can even review things based on the biases of others. Critics who perform a service should and do do this, and if not, they perform no service. There are critics who do it for the art of being a critic, or perhaps as a service to the filmmakers, but generally, that's the old way.

I agree that a review should engage the emotional context in which the film is received, but a well rounded person doesn't have to do it from their individual emotional context, and their reviews are more useful if they don't. No wonder people think critics are useless if most of them are using their personal biases - which are unknwon to both the critics and the readers!

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And "slowing down way too much.." is completely subjective, so I appreciate that.... What would the objective analysis for that be?
The objective way to say it is "the frequency with which the plot develops is slower here when compared with later in the film, other films in the series, and other films of similar genre and budget. For viewers who are accustomed to that pace, which will be most people who have seen the other films in this series and other films of this genre and scale, they will either need to somehow adjust their expectations of this part of the film, or they will not enjoy it as much as others, and may indeed find it getting boring."

This is what I get from "The first half is slow" which most reviews of Dark Knight Rises note. Such verbosity is not required to communicate a simple fact that has such a consistent effect on the audience.

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Old 04-24-2013, 12:12 PM   #128
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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I can't say I understand your logic there.
I believe we are dealing with a early teen fangirl. In any case, they have shown that "discussion" is something they don't understand.

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Old 04-24-2013, 01:28 PM   #129
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Detaching yourself from your biases is pretty easy once you are aware of them. Then you can give a review that's useful to people who do not share your biases. You can even review things based on the biases of others. Critics who perform a service should and do do this, and if not, they perform no service. There are critics who do it for the art of being a critic, or perhaps as a service to the filmmakers, but generally, that's the old way.
Let's use the term personal truth over personal bias, which is derogatory. Although I have no problem with personal bias in some cases. Why? Because the relationship between film and film criticism (and the audience) is essentially a cultural discourse. Our beliefs and how they evolve are an essential part of it.

What sense does it make for the artist to express his life experiences (ideas, beliefs, emotions, etc) and the critic not respond in kind? Why deny the connection the work is trying to make? What service are we getting if critics do this? I realise we're talking about big blockbsusters here and not completely personal works, but it stll applies. "Performing a service" as you put it, seems more like getting our taxes done. Objectivity definitely has a place, in art and in criticism, but critics should not use it as a crutch.

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The objective way to say it is "the frequency with which the plot develops is slower here when compared with later in the film, other films in the series, and other films of similar genre and budget. For viewers who are accustomed to that pace, which will be most people who have seen the other films in this series and other films of this genre and scale, they will either need to somehow adjust their expectations of this part of the film, or they will not enjoy it as much as others, and may indeed find it getting boring."


This is what I get from "The first half is slow" which most reviews of Dark Knight Rises note. Such verbosity is not required to communicate a simple fact that has such a consistent effect on the audience.
Exactly. This is it in a nutshell. The same mechanical nature that film criticism has become. This could have been written by a hundred other critics (and I'm sure has been). Throwing in words like pace, scale, and plot developement was a nice touch. This is what happens when you try so hard to objectify a film (art). It belittles human emotions and the work itself. We get uninspired, paint by numbers trite. Disingenuous at best. Not a lot of original stuff happening with film criticism at the moment.

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I agree that a review should engage the emotional context in which the film is received, but a well rounded person doesn't have to do it from their individual emotional context, and their reviews are more useful if they don't. No wonder people think critics are useless if most of them are using their personal biases - which are unknwon to both the critics and the readers!.
Most critics are for the reasons I stated.

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Old 04-24-2013, 02:13 PM   #130
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I prefer this new direction WB is taking their DC characters, targeting a mature audience with deeper themes and depth in characters. Marvel still caters to the 13 and 14 year old kids. Nothing wrong with that, but that approach gets old after a while. I will personally lose interest in Avengers movies gradually, especially after RDJ hangs it up. I can't see Disney/Marvel continually outdoing themselves with teams ups and cross overs for long. I wonder if Disney will take the same approach with Star Wars now. While I like what J.J Abrams did with Star Trek, its sequel doesn't feel like Star Trek. Almost tempted not to watch it in theatres because it's not what Star Trek is supposed to be built on. I can only hope they change their approach with Star Wars and try to make it more like Star Trek of the past, ironically enough. It's difficult finding that balance.
you know Robert talked about leaving after avengers 2 because he got injured while making iron man 3 but he said he also wanted to do other things a couple more things so Downey jr departure's might be sooner then you think .

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Old 04-24-2013, 03:12 PM   #131
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I believe I said that already.



Man of Steel is "over" Iron Man 3 because MOS is starting a cinematic universe? Is it new to you that IM3 is part of a cinematic universe as well?

I can't say I understand your logic there.



Make my Bond Mr. Craig for a while. And while it would be controversial, I'd love to see Idris Elba take the role afterwards.
the producers dropped Bronson after 50 , Craig will be gone after 50 .idris elba would be almost in his 50's when Craig was done playing bond so i don't see your logic there ? at least Henry would in his 30's the normal age for a 007 actor today .

and is it new to you that Robert has not played Sherlock Holmes in a while or has it occurred to you that he has played absolutely nothing but tony stark in 5 movies since 08 and Robert missed out on some cool movies like Alfonso Cuarón's Gravity because of his obligation to marvel ? now Henry over here he won't have that problem because man of steel 2 is being planned for 2017 unlike what marvel studios did when they rushed out iron man 2 .




.


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Old 04-24-2013, 03:41 PM   #132
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Let's use the term personal truth over personal bias, which is derogatory. Although I have no problem with personal bias in some cases. Why? Because the relationship between film and film criticism (and the audience) is essentially a cultural discourse. Our beliefs and how they evolve are an essential part of it.

What sense does it make for the artist to express his life experiences (ideas, beliefs, emotions, etc) and the critic not respond in kind? Why deny the connection the work is trying to make? What service are we getting if critics do this? I realise we're talking about big blockbsusters here and not completely personal works, but it stll applies. "Performing a service" as you put it, seems more like getting our taxes done. Objectivity definitely has a place, in art and in criticism, but critics should not use it as a crutch.



Exactly. This is it in a nutshell. The same mechanical nature that film criticism has become. This could have been written by a hundred other critics (and I'm sure has been). Throwing in words like pace, scale, and plot developement was a nice touch. This is what happens when you try so hard to objectify a film (art). It belittles human emotions and the work itself. We get uninspired, paint by numbers trite. Disingenuous at best. Not a lot of original stuff happening with film criticism at the moment.

Most critics are for the reasons I stated.
I really dislike the words "Personal Truth" it sounds like "opinion of the truth" which is most certainly not truth. Semantics aside, I see what you're saying, and there is a lot to be said for the critic to respond to the filmmaker. That is a beautiful artistic emotional thing. But the truth is, I don't listen to critics to see art, I simply look them up to find out whether/how much *I* will enjoy a particular film, to help predict how *I* will respond. Someone who expresses different life experiences than mine - without acknowledging both the objective facts as well as the emotional response of those with different life experiences - in response to a film is completely useless to this end, and honestly, not really fully appreciable even as art unto itself until after I've seen the film myself.

It's not hard, it just requires knowing yourself and your audience. If your audience is the filmgoer, then your personal life experiences just won't cut it. The fact that being purely objective won't cut it either doesn't mean that your personal life experiences will cut it for the audience. You've got to do both and know when you're doing which and inform the audience which is which. That's a great review, that not only has the artistry, but gets peoples taxes done and out of the way so they can get down to the business of enjoying a given film.

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Old 04-24-2013, 03:44 PM   #133
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I believe we are dealing with a early teen fangirl. In any case, they have shown that "discussion" is something they don't understand.
i don't know how i can be called a fangirl when i am a 20 year old guy from NJ?

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Old 04-24-2013, 03:45 PM   #134
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and is it new to you that Robert has not played Sherlock Holmes in a while or has it occurred to you that he has played absolutely nothing but tony stark in 5 movies since 08 and Robert missed out on some cool movies like Alfonso Cuarón's Gravity because of his obligation to marvel ? now Henry over here he won't have that problem because man of steel 2 is being planned for 2017 unlike what marvel studios did when they rushed out iron man 2 .

.
What are you talking about?

He played Sherlock Holmes just 2 years ago.

Tropic Thunder, The Soloist and Due Date have all been out since Iron Man.

And nowhere has a sequel even been confirmed, let alone wth a release date of 2017

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Old 04-24-2013, 03:59 PM   #135
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What are you talking about?

He played Sherlock Holmes just 2 years ago.

Tropic Thunder, The Soloist and Due Date have all been out since Iron Man.

And nowhere has a sequel even been confirmed, let alone wth a release date of 2017

and what about his Sherlock 3 that is being delayed by his involvement with iron man ? i am saying he basically has done nothing much but play tony stark 5 times and he has look at the following and compare my list of him with your with your list tropic thunder was 08 , The Soloist was moved form 08 to 09 so would that count ? and due date is the only other movie he has done besides his Sherlock Holmes films since he has been doing his marvel films .

iron man

the incredible hulk

iron man 2

the avengers

iron man 3


and go to cosmicbooknews.com to find about what i am saying about man of steel 2 2017 .


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Old 04-24-2013, 04:09 PM   #136
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and go to cosmicbooknews.com to find about what i am saying about man of steel 2 2017 .
Where am I supposed to be looking? The last article is just about the Justice League info from EW... Might help if you actually linked to the page that says something about 2017 rather than just linking to the homepage of the site...

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 04-24-2013, 04:12 PM   #137
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Where am I supposed to be looking? The last article is just about the Justice League info from EW... Might help if you actually linked to the page that says something about 2017 rather than just linking to the homepage of the site...
sure cosmicbooknews.com

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Old 04-24-2013, 04:18 PM   #138
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... that's just the homepage again...

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 04-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #139
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

Nevermind i've hunted it out.

But their 'source' claims Snyder won't be directing Justice League as well... and that contradicts what the Empire article says about them offering it to him if MOS is a success...

... So the information is completely not reliable.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:25 PM   #140
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... that's just the homepage again...

yeah if look on the homepage by where it says boom studios , you will see Thor 2 , justice league and oblivion , just clink on justice league.

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Old 04-24-2013, 04:27 PM   #141
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Nevermind i've hunted it out.

But their 'source' claims Snyder won't be directing Justice League as well... and that contradicts what the Empire article says about them offering it to him if MOS is a success...

... So the information is completely not reliable.
they say he'll produce the jla movie and if it was unreliable would wb not come out and debunk it after 2 day's ? the dc enternment source also says he would being directing man of steel 2 .the same dc entertainment source gave up the goods on the fortress of solitude in man of steel .


i mean they could not wait to debunk brett ratner as the director of jla .


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Old 04-24-2013, 04:33 PM   #142
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they say he'll produce the jla movie and if it was unreliable would wb not come out and debunk it after 2 day's ? the source also says he would being directing man of steel 2 .


i mean they could not wait to debunk brett ratner as the director of jla .
No, they don't debunk all false rumours and reports that come out.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #143
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

When it's gotten to the point where you use cosmicbooknews as a "reputable" source, you know it's time to stop.

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Old 04-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #144
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No, they don't debunk all false rumours and reports that come out.
but the same dc entertainment source gave up information on the fortress of solitude and what they said regarding that sounded legit and who would no better then dc entertainment regarding a movie based off a dc comics ?

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Old 04-24-2013, 04:45 PM   #145
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I prefer this new direction WB is taking their DC characters, targeting a mature audience with deeper themes and depth in characters. Marvel still caters to the 13 and 14 year old kids. Nothing wrong with that, but that approach gets old after a while. I will personally lose interest in Avengers movies gradually, especially after RDJ hangs it up. I can't see Disney/Marvel continually outdoing themselves with teams ups and cross overs for long. I wonder if Disney will take the same approach with Star Wars now. While I like what J.J Abrams did with Star Trek, its sequel doesn't feel like Star Trek. Almost tempted not to watch it in theatres because it's not what Star Trek is supposed to be built on. I can only hope they change their approach with Star Wars and try to make it more like Star Trek of the past, ironically enough. It's difficult finding that balance.
I'm 56 years old....and loved the Avengers.


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the producers dropped Bronson after 50 , Craig will be gone after 50 .idris elba would be almost in his 50's when Craig was done playing bond so i don't see your logic there ? at least Henry would in his 30's the normal age for a 007 actor today .
The producers drop actors for various reasons....Roger Moore was dropped at age 58, Timothy Dalton at age 45, and George Lazenby at age 30. Age has very little to do with their decisions...so Craig could go before the next movie or make a dozen more.

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and is it new to you that Robert has not played Sherlock Holmes in a while or has it occurred to you that he has played absolutely nothing but tony stark in 5 movies since 08 and Robert missed out on some cool movies like Alfonso Cuarón's Gravity because of his obligation to marvel ? now Henry over here he won't have that problem because man of steel 2 is being planned for 2017 unlike what marvel studios did when they rushed out iron man 2 .
You do realize that in the 5 years that he first played Iron Man, Downey has been in 10 movies? Not many A list actors in this day and age make that many movies in that amount of time.
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i don't know how i can be called a fangirl when i am a 20 year old guy from NJ?
I called you a preteen fangirl because quite frankly you sound like one. You proudly proclaim you have read 50 Shades of Grey, a soft core porn novel written for women, you talk about Henry Caville like a 12 year old Bieber fan gushing about him, your sentence structure in no ways resembles what a 20 year old would do, and when someone insulted you with today's teen/twenty something standard put down of calling you retarded....instead of knowing it was a standard putdown of people supposedly of the age you claim you are you have twice now said he hasn't seen your medical records to make such a statement.

This thread is for the discussion of which movie (Iron Man 3 or MOS) will do better at the boxoffice and with fans...but all you do in here is indignantly shout the praises of Henry Caville and ignore the sensible postings of the people discussing things on topic.

I'm seriously at this point trying to decide if you are a preteen who is in over their head in an adult conversation or simply a troll masquerading as a preteen.

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Old 04-24-2013, 06:31 PM   #146
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I'm 56 years old....and loved the Avengers.


The producers drop actors for various reasons....Roger Moore was dropped at age 58, Timothy Dalton at age 45, and George Lazenby at age 30. Age has very little to do with their decisions...so Craig could go before the next movie or make a dozen more.


You do realize that in the 5 years that he first played Iron Man, Downey has been in 10 movies? Not many A list actors in this day and age make that many movies in that amount of time.
I called you a preteen fangirl because quite frankly you sound like one. You proudly proclaim you have read 50 Shades of Grey, a soft core porn novel written for women, you talk about Henry Caville like a 12 year old Bieber fan gushing about him, your sentence structure in no ways resembles what a 20 year old would do, and when someone insulted you with today's teen/twenty something standard put down of calling you retarded....instead of knowing it was a standard putdown of people supposedly of the age you claim you are you have twice now said he hasn't seen your medical records to make such a statement.

This thread is for the discussion of which movie (Iron Man 3 or MOS) will do better at the boxoffice and with fans...but all you do in here is indignantly shout the praises of Henry Caville and ignore the sensible postings of the people discussing things on topic.

I'm seriously at this point trying to decide if you are a preteen who is in over their head in an adult conversation or simply a troll masquerading as a preteen.
your telling me that robert downey jr is this great actor but are you talking about the same rdj who was a 80's heartthrob to 12 year old girls ? ,who then he fell off the place of the earth for years , the only place most people saw him was on court TV he made a comeback with iron man and he is called this great actor all of a sudden? and now Fifty Shades of Grey is a trilogy of books they are not porn they are Erotica how are you going to imply that i am immature ? when i read a mature novel 50 shades of grey the ladies like it but it is not like you would no anything about that now .

who's Henry Caville ? i don't recall mentioning anybody with that the last name Caville here ,now you might be confused with the actor playing superman in zack Snyder's man of steel by the name of Henry cavill i would think that a administrator of superherohype would at least get the last name right of a actor playing an iconic role like who also almost played or better yet at least know what your talking about before you get into an adult conversation .


me a troll ? who are you charlie sheen ?


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Old 04-24-2013, 07:59 PM   #147
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I believe we are dealing with a early teen fangirl. In any case, they have shown that "discussion" is something they don't understand.
Hey, don't lump me in there with that generalization.

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Old 04-24-2013, 08:16 PM   #148
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your telling me that robert downey jr is this great actor but are you talking about the same rdj who was a 80's heartthrob to 12 year old girls ? ,who then he fell off the place of the earth for years , the only place most people saw him was on court TV he made a comeback with iron man and he is called this great actor all of a sudden? and now Fifty Shades of Grey is a trilogy of books they are not porn they are Erotica how are you going to imply that i am immature ? when i read a mature novel 50 shades of grey the ladies like it but it is not like you would no anything about that now .
Actually, RDJ's return was with 2005's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. And since that return he has appeared in some films ranging from fantastic (outside of Marvel) to good including: Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows, Tropic Thunder, The Soloist, Due Date and will be appearing in the upcoming film The Judge. He's a great actor that works with his characters and owns each role he's done since he came back. Even if he was (he wasn't, but just hypothetically) the 80's equivalent of Justin Bieber or whoever, the modern RDJ is a fantastic actor that's fun to see on screen every time.

50 Shades of Grey is porn. Call it erotica but it's porn.

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Old 04-24-2013, 10:25 PM   #149
C. Lee
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderrocks View Post
your telling me that robert downey jr is this great actor but are you talking about the same rdj who was a 80's heartthrob to 12 year old girls ? ,who then he fell off the place of the earth for years , the only place most people saw him was on court TV he made a comeback with iron man and he is called this great actor all of a sudden? and now Fifty Shades of Grey is a trilogy of books they are not porn they are Erotica how are you going to imply that i am immature ? when i read a mature novel 50 shades of grey the ladies like it but it is not like you would no anything about that now .

who's Henry Caville ? i don't recall mentioning anybody with that the last name Caville here ,now you might be confused with the actor playing superman in zack Snyder's man of steel by the name of Henry cavill i would think that a administrator of superherohype would at least get the last name right of a actor playing an iconic role like who also almost played or better yet at least know what your talking about before you get into an adult conversation .


me a troll ? who are you charlie sheen ?
You act like a 12 year old. I really suggest you grow up.

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Old 04-24-2013, 10:53 PM   #150
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Originally Posted by snyderrocks View Post
are you talking about the same rdj who was a 80's heartthrob to 12 year old girls ?
No, he's talking about the RDJ who garned large amounts of critical acclaim for Less Than Zero, not to mention an Academy Award nomination for Chaplin, plus various other awards throughout the 90's.

But nice try.

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