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View Poll Results: Batman Begins vs The Amazing Spider-Man
Batman Begins 123 86.01%
The Amazing Spider-Man 20 13.99%
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:18 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
You speak of "cliche"...Webb's Peter is bullied as well, people laugh at him and girls ask him to take pictures of them and their boyfriends.
Well, he had it coming after defending a boy from the popular bully.

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
And when did Raimi have girls refuse to sit by Peter?
In the first 3 minutes (school bus scene), when Raimi displayed almost all his cliches collection.

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
As you're supposed to laugh at TBBT's caricatures, so I don't get what you mean by that. Did you think Raimi was trying to get laughs at his version?
At every possible time, yes. I guess it could be a little confusing since Raimi humor tends to not trigger many laughs.

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That's assuming a whole bunch since Raimi's Peter didn't even need webshooters.
Don't tell me. It was Raimi who thought it wouldn't be realistic having peter making web-shooters.

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
To you.
Which explains it's me the one who said that.

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I definitely don't prefer the loner type hipster.
You prefer the nerd caricature man. But I have to appreciate that ASM at least tried to make it a but more three dimensional.




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Originally Posted by S. Grundy View Post
Raimi's Parker was not a caricature at all. He was what Peter Parker should be, really unlucky and a bit of a geek. That's something I did not get from ASM.
It's such a caricature that I thought I'd never see again all those old cliches in a movie in 2002. I thought that was part of the past.

Now, a bit of a geek is what we got in ASM, he was smart above the average (solved that equation), socially awkward and why with girls. But hey, reasonably so, Maguire's Parker was a complete dweeb.




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I'm not too sold on Garfield's Spider-Man either, but the bold is right on the dot. Did not like his Peter Parker at all.
His Spider-man triumphed where Raimi's failed: being funny.

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:26 PM   #102
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Default Re: Batman Begins vs The Amazing Spider-Man?

Maguire's awkwardness is hilarious
Garfield's awkwardness isn't

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:39 PM   #103
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Maguire's awkwardness is hilarious
Garfield's awkwardness isn't
More like it tried to be hilarious. But I don't see any reason why it should be hilarious to start with.

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #104
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More like it tried to be hilarious. But I don't see any reason why it should be hilarious to start with.
It was unintentionally hilarious
The scene with Mary Jane (I really hate that woman in Spider-Man 2) in the celebration of John Jameson is too hilariously awkward, I don't want to laugh at it, can't help but laugh

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:46 PM   #105
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It was unintentionally hilarious
The scene with Mary Jane (I really hate that woman in Spider-Man 2) in the celebration of John Jameson is too hilariously awkward, I don't want to laugh at it, can't help but laugh
Oh, it is intentionally hilarious. Raimi didn't just shot the scene in a serious tone but it turned out to be hilarious. But I agree that it was handled much better in the second movie.

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:47 PM   #106
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Default Re: Batman Begins vs The Amazing Spider-Man?

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The Big Bang Theory is what a caricature of a nerd is, what we got in Raimi's trilogy is a very realistic version of a nerd that specializes in one expertise and not all spectrums of the board like TBBT.
I think Raimi's Peter is sort of a caricature. A pastiche of what people thought were nerds were in the 60's. Not that this is a negative, it fit the cheesy world of Raimi well. I thought both were caricatures.

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:48 PM   #107
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I think Raimi's Peter is sort of a caricature. A pastiche of what people thought were nerds were in the 60's. Not that this is a negative, it fit the cheesy world of Raimi well. I thought both were caricatures.
I might suffer from movie lactose intolerance. But I agree with you.

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Old 06-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Racer Morose View Post
Well, he had it coming after defending a boy from the popular bully.
Still a cliche if you're saying nerds being bullied are cliche.

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In the first 3 minutes (school bus scene), when Raimi displayed almost all his cliches collection.
Ahh, the bus scene. Thought you meant at school. I found that scene to be hilarious because it added to the "Peter Parker luck" as he can't even find a seat on the bus, and I didn't find it to be a "girl didn't want Peter to sit by him" kind of deal. Just no one wanting him to sit by them.

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At every possible time, yes. I guess it could be a little confusing since Raimi humor tends to not trigger many laughs.
Nonsense. Raimi's goal isn't to make his Peter be laughed at.

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Don't tell me. It was Raimi who thought it wouldn't be realistic having peter making web-shooters.
I am telling you. Raimi simply didn't want his version to have webshooters. It's pointless to say Raimi's Peter couldn't create webshooters when it wasn't needed.

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Which explains it's me the one who said that.
Hence why I even said 'To you'.

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You prefer the nerd caricature man. But I have to appreciate that ASM at least tried to make it a but more three dimensional.
Except that I don't, but okay.

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His Spider-man triumphed where Raimi's failed: being funny.
I didn't find Garfield's Spider-Man funny, unless you're the kind of fan that prefer an obnoxious douche, to which, Garfield's Spider-Man was. Yelling out "Crotch!", really?


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Old 06-07-2013, 01:39 PM   #109
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You prefer the nerd caricature man. But I have to appreciate that ASM at least tried to make it a but more three dimensional.
Not quite, not even close. One of the more engaging qualities of Raimi's Parker is that he was easy to root for. Nothing came easily for him, and I do mean nothing. From work, to respect, to the girl, to his friendships, school, the whole nine yards, Raimi's Peter had to work for everything he had, or in many cases lost. To me, this humanized him in a way that Webb's hasn't come close to. Admittedly, Raimi did play up the down on his luck aspect of the character(getting stepped on by the whole world, never getting a drink or finger food at the party, etc.), but at the very least, it was in keeping with his characterization.

Webb's Peter got the girl with minimal effort, thought, or interaction, and there was never any semblance of competition from other men(boys?) or any conflict within the romance. They got together and that was that, perfect couple, no issues. Even Twilight, for as derided as it is and for as many comparisons as TASM draws to it, had more effective conflict and turmoil in the romance than this film.

The issue about his parents could have really been something, but throughout the movie it's simply glossed over; never did I feel that Peter gave a damn about the disappearance of his folks, not in the abstract anyway. Even him seeking out Connors seemed to only satiate some sort of tertiary curiosity, nothing about his parents outside of the plot device(the magic formula) was important once they hit the lab.

Webb's Peter wasn't an underdog, therefore the angst that the movie played up for him seemed largely out of place. Him being a jerk made him unlikable as a protagonist, and he didn't display a shred of believable emotion outside of Ben's death.

Raimi's, by contrast, had emotional range in spades. Maguire could sell any emotion with his eyes alone, but beyond that, there were countless examples of his acting that portrayed the character well also. As I said before, he made me root for him in every sub-plot of his life, because he cared for his love interest, family, and friends, all while trying to balance them with his secret life.

Raimi's Peter may have been a nerd caricature, but there were so many more layers to the character that to classify him as that alone is to trivialize everything else that he went through.

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His Spider-man triumphed where Raimi's failed: being funny.
Triumphed? I beg to differ. His Spider-Man was anything but funny. The car-jacker scene seems to be the most oft-referenced scene to support this, but it made him out to be little more than an antagonistic bully than anything else. That's not Spider-Man, nor did it fit well with the film. I'd prefer a Spider-Man that taunts his enemies as a means of getting into their heads, or even passing jabs at lesser foes...but sitting around to ham it up with a thief that's afraid of his own shadow is as cringe-worthy as the worst of Raimi's scenes in his trilogy. The only Spider-Man bit that gave me even a smirk was "Don't make me have to hurt you" during the school battle. Other than that, this is one of those aspects, like the webshooters, that most proponents of the film seem to support simply because it's a bullet point that wasn't in the previous films. It has to be done well first to be a positive. And speaking of the web-shooters, they may as well not have been in the film. Raimi used Spidey's webs more creatively while lacking them, which is among the biggest travesties of this new franchise.


Last edited by Visualiza; 06-07-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:38 PM   #110
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^ Win. All of this.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:02 PM   #111
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Default Re: Batman Begins vs The Amazing Spider-Man?

Some people analyze fiction too much
One made a few douche moves (who doesn't? honestly?), another is more of a dork. Some relate to this one, others relate to the other
You can sit down and analyze every bit of every version of Peter Parker, and find enough aspects used sufficiently for the respective movies

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:42 PM   #112
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And some people post on message boards too much.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:43 PM   #113
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Default Re: Batman Begins vs The Amazing Spider-Man?

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^ Win. All of this.
Seconded.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:58 PM   #114
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Seconded.
Thirded.

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #115
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Default Re: Batman Begins vs The Amazing Spider-Man?

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Ahh, the bus scene. Thought you meant at school. I found that scene to be hilarious because it added to the "Peter Parker luck" as he can't even find a seat on the bus, and I didn't find it to be a "girl didn't want Peter to sit by him" kind of deal. Just no one wanting him to sit by them.
What makes that bit funny, and adds to Parker being unlucky, the girl looked to be a bit of nerd too.

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:26 PM   #116
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ASM. While it had a terrible love-plot, a character who was unlikeable for the first half of the film (Peter), and the return of the irritating "Good New Yorkers" (I kept expecting them to throw bricks at the Lizard like they did Goblin in Raimi's first film,) it was a good film. Rhys Ifans gave one of the best performances as Hyde/Jekyll; the science fiction element was good (I loved the cross breeding program,) and the designs/lighting/sets were great. They oozed atmosphere.
Begins, on the other hand, had the tension and emotions sucked out of every scene containing the black hole that is Katie Holmes. Worse, the team's selection of gold and brown as the primary colors made the film look terrible; and some of Goyer's lines were downright grating ("Gotta get me one of those"). Aside from that, the score and casting were excellent and the plot was fine.

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Old 06-08-2013, 03:06 AM   #117
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Peter Parker in ASM as a little unlikeable but this created tension in the family dynamic which imho the Raimi movies lacked. Family scenes need tension to be believable at least I'm not going to believe the scenes if they lack tension.
I really liked the first half of ASM and was less engaged when Lizard shows up, almost a complete contrast to SM1 where I wasn't as engaged in the movie until Peter puts on the costume.

With Batman Begins, I absolutely loved the training but lost interest when Bruce returned to Gotham. I thought the fear gas plot was stupid, couldn't make out most of the action and had next to no interest the climax and Batman refusing to save Ra's outright angered me. I had no interest in the sequel but the death of Ledger and Amazing WOM for TDK made me watch the movie opening weekend.

TDK imho is the best superhero movie ever and usurped my previous best (SM2) but BB is an overrated bore fest and doesn't even rank in my top 10 favourite superhero movies.
I not only think ASM is better than BB, I think it is MUCH better than BB and I couldn't care less about their respective RT scores or indeed the poll in this thread.

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Old 06-08-2013, 03:25 AM   #118
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I will take the scene of Peter Parker telling Aunt May what happened in Spider-Man 2 over any of his the "tension" in TASM.

I think Honest Trailers summed it up best about Garfield's: "He was just a likable, handsome, charismatic, brilliant, athletic high school LOSER.

That parodies it very well.

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Old 06-08-2013, 03:29 AM   #119
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I will take the scene of Peter Parker telling Aunt May what happened in Spider-Man 2 over any of his the "tension" in TASM.
So would I but SM2 is a better movie than ASM. Peter telling Aunt May about Ben's killer is a more powerful 'scene' but I think Peter and Aunt May have a better 'dynamic' in ASM, it's much more believable.

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I think Honest Trailers summed it up best about Garfield's: "He was just a likable, handsome, charismatic, brilliant, athletic high school LOSER.
When you strip Peter/Spidey to his essence the 'nerdy' aspect (for me) is way down the list of what makes Peter, Peter.
Brilliant
Guilt ridden
Snarky
Driven
Responsible
Nerdy is there but it's not what defines him.

Also it didn't bother me they didn't highlight it (nerd/geek). Nerdy is in the 60's is different from contemporary nerdy.


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Old 06-08-2013, 04:49 AM   #120
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The issue about his parents could have really been something, but throughout the movie it's simply glossed over; never did I feel that Peter gave a damn about the disappearance of his folks, not in the abstract anyway. Even him seeking out Connors seemed to only satiate some sort of tertiary curiosity, nothing about his parents outside of the plot device(the magic formula) was important once they hit the lab.
It's inspired by Ultimate Spider-Man arc: Venom
Peter wants to know about his parents, but his family heritage distracts him, and then one things follows another
Maybe they will tell more in the sequel

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Old 06-08-2013, 11:25 AM   #121
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I always wanted to see Batman's origin told on the big screen. I now have. And that's a dream come true so for that sole reason alone I will always choose Batman Begins.

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Old 06-08-2013, 12:05 PM   #122
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I not only think ASM is better than BB, I think it is MUCH better than BB and I couldn't care less about their respective RT scores or indeed the poll in this thread.
One day you won't have to if Webb actually makes a great Spidey film

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Old 06-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #123
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So would I but SM2 is a better movie than ASM. Peter telling Aunt May about Ben's killer is a more powerful 'scene' but I think Peter and Aunt May have a better 'dynamic' in ASM, it's much more believable.



When you strip Peter/Spidey to his essence the 'nerdy' aspect (for me) is way down the list of what makes Peter, Peter.
Brilliant
Guilt ridden
Snarky
Driven
Responsible
Nerdy is there but it's not what defines him.

Also it didn't bother me they didn't highlight it (nerd/geek). Nerdy is in the 60's is different from contemporary nerdy.
Yes, Peter is many different aspects. But the reason he was so many at the beginning of the movie is not because they are reaching for the many facets of the character, but because it is clearly a studio committee film where there are countless voices saying what he has to be. He has to be nerdy and wear glasses, but he also has to be EXTREME with his skateboard. He is kind of cool with his hipster retro camera and standing up to Flash, but he also has to be spastic when talking to authority figures. He has to be a witty smartass in the costume (unlike Raimi's), but he also must be dark and dangerous like Batman!

It was a movie all over the place and had no clear idea who its hero was. Whether Raimi did the comic book character justice, he at least had an idea of who his lead was and put that on the screen.

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Old 06-08-2013, 12:51 PM   #124
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I think analysis of that movie is all over the place

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Old 06-08-2013, 06:11 PM   #125
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Also it didn't bother me they didn't highlight it (nerd/geek). Nerdy is in the 60's is different from contemporary nerdy.
Not really, nerds today are just as socially awkward and into sci-fi/fantasy today as they were back then.

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