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View Poll Results: Rate the movie!
10 7 5.74%
9 36 29.51%
8 35 28.69%
7 13 10.66%
6 13 10.66%
5 7 5.74%
4 6 4.92%
3 2 1.64%
2 1 0.82%
1 2 1.64%
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:40 AM   #326
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by kedrell View Post
What comic book movie came out a couple of months ago?

As far as I am concerned, MS has yet to make a generic, character-less, and unoriginal comic book movie. So why start now? Oh yeah, they suddenly want to appeal to the cine'stas who never liked their films and kept saying they should be more full of subtext and like Nolan's Batman movies. Well those are the bozos who were not part of making the MCU the cinematic juggernaut it has become. It was the fans and open minded casual viewers who were liking what they were making and bought into the ride they were selling.
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Captain America

And no, this doesn't have anything to do with Christopher Nolan. In fact, Iron Man 3 and Shane Black's style couldn't be more different than Nolan's. It's about prefering actual movies with characters, rather than what feel like episodes of a TV series. I can geek out just so many times, then you've gotta offer me something interesting. And for that you need interesting directors, and let them flow, rather than impose your guidelines, like a TV show does with episode directors.

Bozos my ass. :P

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Old 05-02-2013, 07:42 AM   #327
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I think it's because Black doing Mandarin is essentially like Raimi doing Venom. In other words he's doing a character that he doesn't get or care much for(Black pretty much said this 2 years ago when asked) and so was wrong for adapting this villain.

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Old 05-02-2013, 07:44 AM   #328
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Nope, I don't think so.
You're talking about open minded moviegoers making the Marvel movies what they are, when you really you seem to me the least open minded person possible.

Also, in an earlier post you said
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
you'd forever call Slattery a pseudo-Mandarin. He WAS a pseudo-Mandarin. A decoy for the REAL Mandarin, Aldrich Killian.


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Old 05-02-2013, 07:50 AM   #329
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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And here I thought they were well made, movies all about unique characters that were successful in any measurable sense of the word.

And no, this doesn't have anything to do with Christopher Nolan. In fact, Iron Man 3 and Shane Black's style couldn't be more different than Nolan's. It's about preferring actual movies with characters, rather than what feel like episodes of a TV series. I can geek out just so many times, then you've gotta offer me something interesting. And for that you need interesting directors, and let them flow, rather than impose your guidelines, like a TV show does with episode directors.

Bozos my ass. :P[/QUOTE] Every time I hear the carrion call of 'just let the director make the movie he/she wants to make and studio guys you keep out of it,' I cringe. Plenty a movie has been royally screwed by a filmmaker with too much freedom. Ang Lee's Hulk comes to mind immediately. Sometimes studios telling a director where he can get off is a good thing. Film making is a collaborative effort after all.

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Old 05-02-2013, 07:50 AM   #330
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I don't think hating is the right answer to this film, especially since there are tons of excellent stuff popping every 5 minutes. Some compared IM 3 to its previous brother IM 2 claiming that Im 2 was superior, and I'm inclined to think so as well. IM2 was good by all means but a bit inferior to the first film, it seemed to me there was a lock of depth. A bit. Not deep ieough, to much action for the sake of it. Still a good movie for me.
IM3 is for me the next step : even less depth that the second, and even more action than the second... this and the Mandarin trick that seems difficult to digest.

When I see all the good stuff in IM3, it can't be a bad movie, but it certainly fails to be a great movie. In the first 30 minutes I thought this was going to be the movie of the century, stark's phobia, the love story, had to prove himself, Tony's personality and jokes, fighting the gigantic very actual terrorist Mandarin, perfect acting, perfect and magnificent FX... All this was the start for a clever action film.
But in the end, none of this is really used and they just throw action for the sake of it, oh putting right in the middle, between two fights "oh don't forget, I'm deep and fragile too".
I think the problem is in the balance. The director does not know how to balance things. Having Tony making jokes is cool, but it has always been kept to a minimum degree. In this movie he does a joke every 5 seconds, which in the end, is annoying. Focus on his pain more and less on his jokes would help the movie.
Look at this:
He has help from a kid. Ok but why spend so much time on this, when the kid does not matter at all in the story. Would that have been shorter, it would have been OK.
Look at the fight in the bar: perfectly executed but useless to the story. It does not bring A-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. This would have been better to cut it out and just have Tony pick up the file he needed.
Same with Pepper: Why having her all extremis-ed when she dies, come back, and is then cured. What's the point?
Same with Gary, Tony's fan: Spend 10 seconds on him, ok, but have 5 minutes of the movies about him and his fan attitude is 1) boring and above all 2) useless to the story. Again it does not bring anything. Except diversion from the real stuff: Tony phobia. We could have seen Tony just fix the antenna, and understand that a technology genius could fix it alone.

And finally the Mandarin: I had to wait the complete end of the movie to be sure that it was not a joke. Ben Kingsley was perfect, I'm so deceived. I don't get it, but I can somehow comprehend that it was a bold decision of the director. Ok, so ok. But in this case, like I said, what makes the whole trick undigest is the balance.
The way it was done wasbad and I felt cheated. It may be a good idea the make Killian the Mandarin, but in this case, I think the movie should have exposed ben kingsley less, and show Killian being the Mandarin more. I'm ready to accept he is the Mandarin, but then give him time on screen. Let's face it: he screams "I'm the real mandarin"and then dies... ... At least in Bat. Begins, the true Ra's al Ghul had time on screen, while we knew it was him, so the trick worked. Like I said, the idea may not be bad but the treatment is unbalanced then bad.

Ps: oh yeah the first second of Trevor going out of the toilet was maybe not the best way to explore the trick.


All in all I have the impression the director let the producers, Toys company, etc... just tell him how much action was important and jokes too. It makes the whole not easy to digest and kind of heavy.
too bad because there are so many excellent things.

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Old 05-02-2013, 07:50 AM   #331
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Yeah, a franchise killer. Why else reboot it? The movie made alot of money, sure, but it was horrible. Raimi clearly had run dry at that point and was ready to scrape the bottom of the barrel for a sequel. What we would have got in SM4 more than likely would have Quest for Peace. Add into this the rise of Batman and Iron Man in 2008 that changed the game. People wouldnt have been excited for a new Spider Man movie after this. Raimi ruined the characters at that point. Its difficult to come back from emo hair, tangoing, and crying when characters like Joker and Tony Stark hit the silver screen. So yeah, a franchise killer....
It was rebooted because the director and actors wanted too much money and too much time to make SM4 which was in full pre production. So much for franchise killer.


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Old 05-02-2013, 07:55 AM   #332
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by kedrell View Post
And here I thought they were well made, movies all about unique characters that were successful in any measurable sense of the word.

And no, this doesn't have anything to do with Christopher Nolan. In fact, Iron Man 3 and Shane Black's style couldn't be more different than Nolan's. It's about preferring actual movies with characters, rather than what feel like episodes of a TV series. I can geek out just so many times, then you've gotta offer me something interesting. And for that you need interesting directors, and let them flow, rather than impose your guidelines, like a TV show does with episode directors.

Bozos my ass. :P
Every time I hear the carrion call of 'just let the director make the movie he/she wants to make and studio guys you keep out of it,' I cringe. Plenty a movie has been royally screwed by a filmmaker with too much freedom. Ang Lee's Hulk comes to mind immediately. Sometimes studios telling a director where he can get off is a good thing. Film making is a collaborative effort after all.[/QUOTE]

Then cringe... We're talking about cinema here, FYI.

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Old 05-02-2013, 07:57 AM   #333
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Nope, I don't think so.
You're talking about open minded moviegoers making the Marvel movies what they are, when you really you seem to me the least open minded person possible.

Also, in an earlier post you said
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
you'd forever call Slattery a pseudo-Mandarin. He WAS a pseudo-Mandarin. A decoy for the REAL Mandarin, Aldrich Killian.

I said I'd call the Killian/Slattery thing pseudo-Mandarin. I lump Killian in there as well. Because he was not the Mandarin as far as I am concerned.

And I'm open minded to a point, but there's limits when you're adapting something pretty well established. Some deviations you just can't make work and IMO it definitely doesn't in this case. I was talking about casual audience members being open minded enough to accept some of the more out-there things that come from comic books, rather than requiring all gritty realism to be imposed in order to accept a film. Comic fans do this easily and what Marvel has been slowly doing is getting the non-comic book reading audience more in line with where the comic fans are with what they'll accept.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:03 AM   #334
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

There's been movies far more out there than comic book adaptations; you don't really need an open mind to accept what's been happening in the Marvel movies.

It's all up to opinion. I don't think you're very open minded. And to me the twist was a brilliant way not to bypass the 'stereotype' Mandarin. And with Aldrich Killian being portrayed like the current comics Mandarin, I don't get the whining. It's whining for whining's sake; also, the idea of having yet another Mandarin in feature movie is, frankly, ridiculous, and the reason why I hope most comic geeks should never get into the movie business. And I love my comics as much as I love movies, but they're two different animals, with different needs, etc. 5 dollars that fans would have praised such a twist to death had it been done in the comics.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:03 AM   #335
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Then cringe... We're talking about cinema here, FYI.

That doesn't mean I believe in the rightness of directorial authority as an absolute. Which obviously I don't.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:07 AM   #336
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Because Raimi and Sony had creative differences over Spider-Man 4's direction. Spider-Man 4 was given the green light. It was going to happen. Spider-Man 3 didn't kill anything. It made over 900 million.

The reason for the reboot is because Raimi walked, and Tobey and the others didn't want to do it without him. So they canned SM-4 and decided to reboot.
And they couldn't recast it or hire a new director? When your main character turns down $50 million dollars you know there is a problem with the franchise itself. The well was poisoned by the quality of SM3. It wasn't a money thing, the movie just sucked that bad. Spider-Man, after 3, was a joke.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:13 AM   #337
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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And they couldn't recast it or hire a new director? When your main character turns down $50 million dollars you know there is a problem with the franchise itself. The well was poisoned by the quality of SM3. It wasn't a money thing, the movie just sucked that bad. Spider-Man, after 3, was a joke.
Not really. The movie wasn't good, but sure it didn't ruin the character in the GA's eyes.

Tobey Maguire didn't turn down $50 million, the movie he was supposed to be in just didn't happen, as Sam Raimi and Sony couldn't agree about what kind of movie to make.

And they didn't simply recast or hire a new director, because in the light of the success of movies such as Twilight, they wanted the possibilty to have this set in high school, and cater more than before to the teen audience. And frankly, they could have made much better than The Amazing Spider-man. It's not like that movie saved the characters. It's an unnecessary movie; they should have recast or hired a new director!

And Iron Man 2 not being a franchise killer doesn't mean it's a good movie. It's still a misstep in a trilogy that could have been great in its entirety. And that's all down to how Marvel acted on that production, forcing Favreau to meet a 2010 release (when he really wanted to take his time to develop a good story) and shoehorning teases to the Avengers into the movie. So much wasted potential. This way we have a great first movie, a so-so, kinda useless, messy, but still fun (and better directed than The Avengers) sequel, and a great conclusion.


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Old 05-02-2013, 08:22 AM   #338
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Every time I hear the carrion call of 'just let the director make the movie he/she wants to make and studio guys you keep out of it,' I cringe. Plenty a movie has been royally screwed by a filmmaker with too much freedom. Ang Lee's Hulk comes to mind immediately. Sometimes studios telling a director where he can get off is a good thing. Film making is a collaborative effort after all.
Then cringe... We're talking about cinema here, FYI. [/QUOTE]

Seeing as I like Ang Lee's Hulk I don't think that's a good example.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:22 AM   #339
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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There's been movies far more out there than comic book adaptations; you don't really need an open mind to accept what's been happening in the Marvel movies.

It's all up to opinion. I don't think you're very open minded. And to me the twist was a brilliant way not to bypass the 'stereotype' Mandarin. And with Aldrich Killian being portrayed like the current comics Mandarin, I don't get the whining. It's whining for whining's sake; also, the idea of having yet another Mandarin in feature movie is, frankly, ridiculous, and the reason why I hope most comic geeks should never get into the movie business. And I love my comics as much as I love movies, but they're two different animals, with different needs, etc. 5 dollars that fans would have praised such a twist to death had it been done in the comics.
Again with the stereotype stuff. Do you know how many decades it's been since that has been true of the Mandarin? The twist works as a twist in and of itself in the film. But it comes at the expense of a great and loved character among Iron Man fans. That's why people with no knowledge of the comics character will have no problem with it. But long time fans of Iron Man comics like myself will be crying foul. You can't tell me there was no way to do the Mandarin faithfully.

And where does open mindedness end? Should we accept anything and everything so that we'll seem tolerant? There has to be a line somewhere and as far as I'm concerned Shane Black crossed it. Whether Marvel Studios/Kevin Feige lets it stand is really the only thing I have to put hope in.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:24 AM   #340
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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they could have made much better than The Amazing Spider-man. It's not like that movie saved the characters. It's an unnecessary movie; they should have recast or hired a new director!

I like the tone and leads far more than the Raimi tone and leads (although I still think SM2 is the best of the franchise) so I don't think it was an unnecessary movie at all.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:24 AM   #341
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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And they couldn't recast it or hire a new director?
What is the point in getting a whole new cast and director, and calling it a sequel to the Raimi movies? Do you really think fans and audiences would take to that?

It was much simpler to just reboot it.

Quote:
When your main character turns down $50 million dollars you know there is a problem with the franchise itself. The well was poisoned by the quality of SM3. It wasn't a money thing, the movie just sucked that bad. Spider-Man, after 3, was a joke.
You have no idea what you're talking about: http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/t...al-creati.html

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:25 AM   #342
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Seeing as I like Ang Lee's Hulk I don't think that's a good example.

It works for me since I consider it bar none to be the worst movie I ever saw.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:28 AM   #343
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I like the tone and leads far more than the Raimi tone and leads (although I still think SM2 is the best of the franchise) so I don't think it was an unnecessary movie at all.

No movie is 'necessary'. Always seemed a silly argument as to why a film shouldn't exist, IMO.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:30 AM   #344
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Again with the stereotype stuff. Do you know how many decades it's been since that has been true of the Mandarin? The twist works as a twist in and of itself in the film. But it comes at the expense of a great and loved character among Iron Man fans. That's why people with no knowledge of the comics character will have no problem with it. But long time fans of Iron Man comics like myself will be crying foul. You can't tell me there was no way to do the Mandarin faithfully.

And where does open mindedness end? Should we accept anything and everything so that we'll seem tolerant? There has to be a line somewhere and as far as I'm concerned Shane Black crossed it. Whether Marvel Studios/Kevin Feige lets it stand is really the only thing I have to put hope in.
Did it ruin the film for you?

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:31 AM   #345
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Again with the stereotype stuff. Do you know how many decades it's been since that has been true of the Mandarin? The twist works as a twist in and of itself in the film. But it comes at the expense of a great and loved character among Iron Man fans. That's why people with no knowledge of the comics character will have no problem with it. But long time fans of Iron Man comics like myself will be crying foul. You can't tell me there was no way to do the Mandarin faithfully.

And where does open mindedness end? Should we accept anything and everything so that we'll seem tolerant? There has to be a line somewhere and as far as I'm concerned Shane Black crossed it. Whether Marvel Studios/Kevin Feige lets it stand is really the only thing I have to put hope in.
You're really just butthurt, aren't you?

And people are crying about the loss of Kingsley's take on the character, when Aldrich Killian really represents the Mandarin of the comics, even with freaking powers. You've got the whole package. You've got the Asian stereotype making the usual grand speeches about terror, and then you've got the soul of the Mandarin. Everytime I talk about Killian being the actual Mandarin, you completely bypass that part of what I say. So what is it about Killian that's so wrong as a movie version of the Mandarin, huh? To me it really seems like you're just butthurt for falling for the twist.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:35 AM   #346
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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It works for me since I consider it bar none to be the worst movie I ever saw.

Ha ha!
I wont try and defend it but I thought the dynamic of father and son and exploration of rage and legacy were fascinating but I TOTALLY get why people wanted to see HULK SMASH!!

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:36 AM   #347
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Did it ruin the film for you?
As I said(maybe in another thread, I don't know), only if they're saying this stands as what they say is the definitive Mandarin in the MCU. But I'm choosing to have faith given their most excellent track record up till now. And I see in the movie a point at which they may have closed the door on this movie but left a window open to set it all straight. That can't be an accident, at least that's what I choose to believe. Because otherwise I gotta bring the hammer down on this movie. And I'd really like not to have to do that since there's so much other good stuff in it.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:37 AM   #348
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

If Ang Lee's Hulk was the worst movie you ever saw, then you've got lots of homework to do.
And the fact that you're going to reevaluate the movie based on what future, non-existing movies will do, is just plain ridiculous, and says much about people are judging these movies: Not on their own merits!
And please, for humanity's sake, just bring the hammer down on the pic. xD

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:41 AM   #349
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Kingsley's take was an Osama Bin Laden caricature. It actually makes more sense to me that they'd go the route they did. Replace one racist caricature with another? Kind of ironic and contradictory. So in that regard I like it.

I think the whole mystical Asian villain has sort of played out. Hollywood has embellished it all too much over the years. We saw it in Mummy 3, and many other times before and since. I love badass Asian villains that can do Kung-Fu, but at what expense do you shoe-horn a guy like that when it doesn't fit the tone or feel you are aiming for. This is a franchise about advanced tech and robots. Albeit Mandarin is the perfect "Joker" to counter that through unconventional means, the Yin and Yang. So you could have pulled it off, but I think it was more likely to come across as cliched and cheap vs some epic finality with an iconic villain.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:49 AM   #350
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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You're really just butthurt, aren't you?

And people are crying about the loss of Kingsley's take on the character, when Aldrich Killian really represents the Mandarin of the comics, even with freaking powers. You've got the whole package. You've got the Asian stereotype making the usual grand speeches about terror, and then you've got the soul of the Mandarin. Everytime I talk about Killian being the actual Mandarin, you completely bypass that part of what I say. So what is it about Killian that's so wrong as a movie version of the Mandarin, huh? To me it really seems like you're just butthurt for falling for the twist.


Where are the rings? They're his thing. Why is the Mandarin some white guy? It took me long enough to begin to accept Kingsley in the role. He's not called Mandarin for nothing. His ethnicity happens to be and actual important part of his character. Basically I liked Mandarin as he was and Shane Black obviously didn't. It's the Raimi/Venom thing all over again, just with more competent film making. But that doesn't lessen the sting.

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