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Old 05-04-2013, 05:16 AM   #51
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Maybe the whole thing is what Tony said in the movie when first investigating the name Mandarin, that Mandarin means adviser to the Emperor/ king.
Maybe it's a title.
Because you know sometimes words have many meanings. multiple interpretations. multiple sides to themselves.

The word Mandarin could have many meanings, in addition to its main one, these are taken from random dictionary sites:
n.
A member of any of the nine ranks of high public officials in the Chinese Empire (or maybe something Killian considers an Empire).
A high government official or bureaucrat.
A member of an elite group, especially a person having influence or high status in intellectual or cultural circles.
a high-ranking official whose powers are extensive and thought to be outside political control
adj.
Marked by elaborate and refined language or literary style

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

So, maybe Killian wasn't the only Master. There's a theme where Mandarin can mean just one of an elite group. Maybe there's more to why Killian chose that name, has people call him Master... Maybe someone else really was helping him run the ten rings and the ten rings are just one of the heads of Hydra.
"When one head of the Hydra is removed two will grow in its place" like the mythical Hydra.
Maybe AIM is a front for Hydra, as well as many other organizations that they've slipped into.

Feige did say many secrets would come out in Captain America 2... Maybe the recent comments about it being like Avengers 1.5 mean something more, and CA: Winter Solider is kind of like a Secret Avengers (the Secret Avengers team from the comics)...

Fury, Cap, Falcon and Widow go rogue from Shield -- sort of like in Secret Avengers. They start uncovering a massive global conspiracy, political and economic in nature, forming a secret black ops like team that operates outside of Shield's official orders. Facing secretive spy networks/organizations that slowly marched across time. We have to see behind the iron curtains to find out what AIM is really all about... Winter Soldier gets used in high profile assassinations in the past. Hyrdra/AIM covertly overthrowing the globe, Killian the advisor to Emperor Zemo, a co-Master. Killian could have been Spreading AIM as another extension/head of a think tank who thinks many regenerating/re-sprouting heads are better than one. Making Zemo even richer who was already secretly crippling the world's financial institutions (in a meta way Zemo caused the financial crisis), in preparation for Hydra's return. Carter has been chasing Zemo, Zola, Lukin and Winter Soldier across history. In the flashbacks parts of Zemo's decades long plan are revealed. An area of the brain can cause Telomere regeneration, increasing longevity, and Zola wants to put himself into a robot body... Even with their extended lifespans their organic bodies will die eventually.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I think Hydra went underground, has slowly been gathering more and more power planning the perfect way to get revenge on Howard Stark's legacy and Shield, and want to surprise attack the world in Avengers 2... So we can't know everything about it, and they had to manipulate Stark...

Cap and Fury discover the conspiracy. Fury's boss Pierce (head of Shield) doesn't believe it. Tony doesn't believe that there's more to the story, so he told it to Banner a certain way, skipping over the part where he fixed Extremis, fixed Pepper, and fixed himself. When Stark and Fury create their secret team and go rogue, Robert Redford's character is stuck not knowing whether to trust Cap and Fury, and Fury doesn't even know if he can trust him. Tony is appointed director of Shield in time for Avengers 2...

So that Cap has a team, Tony has a team, the villains have a team, and their worst enemies are themselves... Tony doesn't believe there is more to the story but Cap and Fury will see how it all connects and disagree with Shield, disagree with Stark's decisions when he is made director of Shield... Sometimes change can be a good thing, Tony learns to rely on the suit less. Takes a more direct role. His hero arc is over... Time for him to become the villain a little. He tries to fix things... Sometimes we think we're doing the right thing... When Thor returns he has to choose sides. But no one knows Tony has Extremis within him, and so does President Ellis... Coldblood dosed him and Tony doesn't know... He also doesn't know about the hidden subroutines in Extremis that affect the mind and alter behavior/memory. Maybe the Mandarin always has a backup plan, and strung everyone along, strung President Ellis up as a backup... made it easy for them to find him on the docks. Had Trevor misdirect Tony with the stuff about the VP. The VP was a good man, he just got blackmailed... I think Killian wanted to secure the presidency. That's his main goal. He's doesn't seem too worried about fixing Extremis, or going too hot and exploding when Maya asks him. I think maybe he does have many backup plans and can afford to mess with Tony's mind.


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Old 05-04-2013, 08:53 AM   #52
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
How has Tony been "meddling" in the affairs of the Ten Rings....?

*They* started it. Stane hired them to kill Tony in Afghanistan, and Raza drafted him to build a weapon for him instead. That backfired on him and he got punished for it, by Stark *and* Stane.

And how would Trevor convince Tony he doesn't exist when he splatters himself across every TV and newspaper in the known world? That's the exact *opposite* of subtlety.

And where did you get power as Killian's motive? I don't think you understand that character at all....
I'd say THIS. There were some things hinted to in it. But, the whole "he was Mandarin the entire time" seems highly unlikely and has numerous plot holes in it. Tony had no idea about the Mandarin before the Mandarin went public and splattered his face everywhere. If his goal was to get close to Tony, why wouldn't he just do that? It's not like Tony would have recognized him without his warnings to the people. He was more hidden than Bin Laden.

The build up's in it were:

> "Master" - so "masters of evil" is likely
> There's a President of the United States, the Vice President is evil - what does this say about the America that Captain America returns to?
> It might have something to do with what the heroes were called out for in 'The Avengers'
> AIM exists, therefore Modok might exist

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:54 AM   #53
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Um, all the VPOTUS tells us is that "its possible to get people to do stuff they shouldn't if you offer them the right carrot." "Letting my daughter walk again" is a pretty powerful carrot. That doesn't really point to any kind of endemic evil of the modern world.

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Old 05-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
Um, all the VPOTUS tells us is that "its possible to get people to do stuff they shouldn't if you offer them the right carrot." "Letting my daughter walk again" is a pretty powerful carrot. That doesn't really point to any kind of endemic evil of the modern world.
Ah, gotcha, that subtly flew right by me for some reason or I just wasn't listening closely enough... I thought he just wanted to be President. Then, you're right.

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Old 05-04-2013, 03:15 PM   #55
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

After letting it all soak in, I think the story "as is" is borderline tolerable. Like, I could watch it again and be satisfied with the movie itself.

But with the Iron Man series as a whole? Something needs to be done about The Mandarin. So I'm still deeply hoping Kingsley has a multiple picture contract.

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Old 05-04-2013, 04:48 PM   #56
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

This is must read:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/05/0...darin-spoiler/

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Old 05-04-2013, 11:23 PM   #57
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRM View Post
Maybe the whole thing is what Tony said in the movie when first investigating the name Mandarin, that Mandarin means adviser to the Emperor/ king.
Maybe it's a title.
Because you know sometimes words have many meanings. multiple interpretations. multiple sides to themselves.

The word Mandarin could have many meanings, in addition to its main one, these are taken from random dictionary sites:
n.
A member of any of the nine ranks of high public officials in the Chinese Empire (or maybe something Killian considers an Empire).
A high government official or bureaucrat.
A member of an elite group, especially a person having influence or high status in intellectual or cultural circles.
a high-ranking official whose powers are extensive and thought to be outside political control
adj.
Marked by elaborate and refined language or literary style

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

So, maybe Killian wasn't the only Master. There's a theme where Mandarin can mean just one of an elite group. Maybe there's more to why Killian chose that name, has people call him Master... Maybe someone else really was helping him run the ten rings and the ten rings are just one of the heads of Hydra.
"When one head of the Hydra is removed two will grow in its place" like the mythical Hydra.
Maybe AIM is a front for Hydra, as well as many other organizations that they've slipped into.

Feige did say many secrets would come out in Captain America 2... Maybe the recent comments about it being like Avengers 1.5 mean something more, and CA: Winter Solider is kind of like a Secret Avengers (the Secret Avengers team from the comics)...

Fury, Cap, Falcon and Widow go rogue from Shield -- sort of like in Secret Avengers. They start uncovering a massive global conspiracy, political and economic in nature, forming a secret black ops like team that operates outside of Shield's official orders. Facing secretive spy networks/organizations that slowly marched across time. We have to see behind the iron curtains to find out what AIM is really all about... Winter Soldier gets used in high profile assassinations in the past. Hyrdra/AIM covertly overthrowing the globe, Killian the advisor to Emperor Zemo, a co-Master. Killian could have been Spreading AIM as another extension/head of a think tank who thinks many regenerating/re-sprouting heads are better than one. Making Zemo even richer who was already secretly crippling the world's financial institutions (in a meta way Zemo caused the financial crisis), in preparation for Hydra's return. Carter has been chasing Zemo, Zola, Lukin and Winter Soldier across history. In the flashbacks parts of Zemo's decades long plan are revealed. An area of the brain can cause Telomere regeneration, increasing longevity, and Zola wants to put himself into a robot body... Even with their extended lifespans their organic bodies will die eventually.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I think Hydra went underground, has slowly been gathering more and more power planning the perfect way to get revenge on Howard Stark's legacy and Shield, and want to surprise attack the world in Avengers 2... So we can't know everything about it, and they had to manipulate Stark...

Cap and Fury discover the conspiracy. Fury's boss Pierce (head of Shield) doesn't believe it. Tony doesn't believe that there's more to the story, so he told it to Banner a certain way, skipping over the part where he fixed Extremis, fixed Pepper, and fixed himself. When Stark and Fury create their secret team and go rogue, Robert Redford's character is stuck not knowing whether to trust Cap and Fury, and Fury doesn't even know if he can trust him. Tony is appointed director of Shield in time for Avengers 2...

So that Cap has a team, Tony has a team, the villains have a team, and their worst enemies are themselves... Tony doesn't believe there is more to the story but Cap and Fury will see how it all connects and disagree with Shield, disagree with Stark's decisions when he is made director of Shield... Sometimes change can be a good thing, Tony learns to rely on the suit less. Takes a more direct role. His hero arc is over... Time for him to become the villain a little. He tries to fix things... Sometimes we think we're doing the right thing... When Thor returns he has to choose sides. But no one knows Tony has Extremis within him, and so does President Ellis... Coldblood dosed him and Tony doesn't know... He also doesn't know about the hidden subroutines in Extremis that affect the mind and alter behavior/memory. Maybe the Mandarin always has a backup plan, and strung everyone along, strung President Ellis up as a backup... made it easy for them to find him on the docks. Had Trevor misdirect Tony with the stuff about the VP. The VP was a good man, he just got blackmailed... I think Killian wanted to secure the presidency. That's his main goal. He's doesn't seem too worried about fixing Extremis, or going too hot and exploding when Maya asks him. I think maybe he does have many backup plans and can afford to mess with Tony's mind.
Fantastic analysis.
Ultimately, it's easy to believe that HYDRA never died in WWII, it just went underground; and it's easy to believe that they'd be behind various groups like AIM and Ten Rings. Hell, maybe even the World Security Council.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatehero View Post
I'd say THIS. There were some things hinted to in it. But, the whole "he was Mandarin the entire time" seems highly unlikely and has numerous plot holes in it. Tony had no idea about the Mandarin before the Mandarin went public and splattered his face everywhere. If his goal was to get close to Tony, why wouldn't he just do that? It's not like Tony would have recognized him without his warnings to the people. He was more hidden than Bin Laden.

The build up's in it were:

> "Master" - so "masters of evil" is likely
> There's a President of the United States, the Vice President is evil - what does this say about the America that Captain America returns to?
> It might have something to do with what the heroes were called out for in 'The Avengers'
> AIM exists, therefore Modok might exist
In retrospect, I agree with you that "The Mandarin" likely never existed. Despite some posters here trying to insist that IM1 and IM2 "inevitably" foreshadowed a Mandarin out there somewhere, there is no evidence to support that. Just a single easter egg in naming the terrorist group "Ten Rings."

The gist of Killian's plot is that he needed something to cover up the "inconvenient" explosions of some of his Extremis test subjects, and terrorist suicide bombers seemed a credible explanation. Ten Rings was likely shadowy enough, and pretty much disbanded shortly after IM1; Killian likely created the idea of "The Mandarin" whole cloth.

And I don't see any evidence in IM3 that Killian was fanatically stalking Tony since 1999, either. Stark was just an inconvenient fly in the ointment who kept maddeningly popping up in Killian's life after the NYE99 party ("stole his girlfriend" Pepper, directly called out Killian's fake Mandarin when they tried to concoct a story about the Chinese Theatre bombing, snooped around and uncovered the whole plot in Miami, etc.)

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Old 05-05-2013, 04:47 AM   #58
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

In the end I'm not too worried because Whedon's a comicbook writer and even if things aren't planted or foreshadowed he'd find some way to bring Mandarin back if he wanted, while still respecting Black's interpretation of the character and expanding on it. Possibly making Mandarin like a hive mind collective. One that works behind the scenes and never shows his whole hand. Maybe Killian even had backups of his mind mapped out and recorded/ready to go/wasn't really worried about fixing extremis immediately.
Not any old mind that he was showing off to Pepper, but the whole map/recording of his particular mind.

Whedon can probably get what Black was doing with the character. There's no doubt in my mind the people in charge chose this interpretation of the Mandarin for many reasons.
Someone pointed out that Mandarin has sometimes not even been a real person, and instead a corporation. Some versions of the character explore similar themes where the Mandarin is not completely real, a ghostly figure behind the scenes. Still, we got a healthy dose of Extremis Mandarin in Black's interpretation. So it's like a mixture of Extremis and some of these interpretations where the Mandarin is mainly just an idea. But Iron Man was just an idea, just a name for a creation, when Tony Stark's mind/actions created him, became him, and took credit for him/admitted to being him.

At first Tony was using his alternate persona as a way to separate himself from Tony... He embraced his super-ego fully in the first movie when he said "I am Iron Man", admitting it and moving away from Tony, his ego. It was a mask to hide the damaged Tony Stark, he wanted to become his alter ego... He wanted to become Iron Man and get away from Tony...

Killian didn't really want to admit to his alter ego... A small part of Killian's mind did because he created it. Killian, like Tony, wants the recognition and is egotistical. Has to admit it was him. So he admits it at the end. In a less subtle way "it was me all along!". He's as arrogant and egotistical as Tony... Leaning more on the arrogant side of the coin (because his intelligence doesn't back up his confidence as much as Tony's from a psychological perspective). Tony is semi-justified, or can be explained to be egotistical because of his accomplishments and ability to backup his claims through his intelligence and actions -- most of the time (his arrogant side takes over when Stark, angry and upset, reveals his home address to the world...) Kilian might even understand the mind, behaviors, responses to stimuli, and basically knows how to condition Tony towards certain responses after watching his reaction to events, and testing Tony's strategies.

Tony eventually learns that the suit is him. He is Iron Man. His mind created it just like Killian's brain created the Mandarin. And Tony Stark says "I am Iron Man" in a completely different way now. Completely new meaning. He's not separate from it, it's not becoming him -- there's a balance. "Iron Man" is just an extension of his thoughts/actions... It's not longer a cocoon, just a mask, or separate from him, that he created and controls via proxy in this movie. Just like Killian controls his artificial creation via proxy. the suit was always him, it was always a part of him. He just never understood how until the Mandarin showed him. Everything Trevor did was an aspect of the Mandarin's mind on display...

This is why Tony Stark can now balance his ego with his super-ego, and Tony Stark is Iron Man in a different way (you have to say it a different way like he does , like it's some Stark realization that everything Killian also did was real and was a product of his mind).

I think it's the other way around (not Killian is the Mandarin) the Mandarin is Killian... Which may not seem important at first. Some part of Killian's mind, his alter ego, his creation, is taking over, did not achieve this balance as this is the Mandarin's origin and Tony and Killian are like reversals of eachother. Killian's artificial creation has become him, he didn't want to take credit for this part of his mind, and now it's all that he is. There is no balance anymore. There's only The Mandarin part of his mind, the super ego. The name given to it from Killian's subconscious has become Killian. Mandarin becomes Killian... Killian doesn't become the Mandarin, if you get what I'm saying. His ego created Mandarin as both a physical and psychological defense mechanism to shield Killian's true self. His superconsciousness, The Mandarin, becomes him as he takes credit for it.

Black kind of showed us a new movie origin for Mandarin I feel, but Whedon could find a way to make it work with what's been shown.
We could get the whole recording brain patterns thing in there. To set up Vision and and Ultron later after the Mandarin collective is gone.


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Old 05-05-2013, 06:04 AM   #59
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Marvel most definitely has a plan. I'm excited to see what it is. They knew they were gonna piss of some fans but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.

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Old 05-05-2013, 06:21 AM   #60
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Exactly, you don't go into something like this without a backup plan.
Without knowing that the risk won't pay off for some people, and having some sort of balance to work towards to get everyone back on board.
The attention to detail with some things shows me Shane didn't totally forget about the ten rings etc, and even though he left that part vague there are still things that can be done. Maybe he even left a few backup plans for Whedon on different ways he was thinking of going that could still be used.

They've talked about how they always wanted to approach the Mandarin, and looked at many ways of doing it. I think he even has a way to make sure this is a new introduction to Mandarin. One that works for the movies/GA, is updated, parallels Tony, making Killian his similar opposite in some ways. Making it seem like like both their disappearing acts at the same time. Of course we know Tony will return. Part of Tony will always be Iron Man.

Shane Black was said to be behind the scenes of the previous movies.
This is what he set up with the ten rings clues?... did he know he was moving towards this... I love it, don't get me wrong, but I think there are still enough things left open ended to not entirely spell out the end of Tony or the Mandarin. And tying it back to Yinsen and stuff was a nice touch.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I just get the feeling Killian already had AIM/his think tank/his "organization" up and running in some capacity even in 1999. He mentions the "think tank" before he even turns AIM into an organization, has AIM on his shirt, and he took an interest in Maya's research immediately. I think he wanted to advance her idea but Tony is the mechanic... It was just that it was Stark who could make it work... i don't think he's mad Tony stood him up... i think he's mad because he needs Tony's help... doesn't want his help. Stark keeps getting in the way. Killian was really at that convention because he saw Maya's research published... But Stark hooked up with Maya & tries to close the door on Killian's connection. However, Killian will meet Maya again and hire her/use her as his assistant/trophy. Later on Tony gets in the way again, steals Pepper, and possibly gets in the way of the rings. Killian wants to steal Pepper early on -- she's Killian's old assistant who became Stark's assistant and then his gf/CEO... Killian wants to do to Stark what Stark did to Killian: take away his connection to the world. Killian was desperate, and Stark set his plans back by interfering with what he was actually trying to suck Maya into back in the past. This doesn't stop Killian and he eventually funds Maya's idea at a later date. what Stark pointed out, the algorithm, still can't be solved by Maya. He needs Tony's mind, but he didn't want it at first... wasn't too worried until Maya said she couldn't fix extremis. Tony is the one who "fixes" things.

Pepper is only a "trophy" to Killian, he doesn't need her like Stark needs her. Or how Killian needed Maya to complete Extremis. After Maya says they need Stark alive to fix Extremis, admitting that her mind can't do it, Maya becomes useless to Killian (he shoots her in the head, and she never took Extremis). Killian then wants to force Stark to be his "assistant"... To fix Extremis for him... Maybe through deceiving Stark into secretly taking it himself and fixing it.

Maybe when Coldblood said The Mandarin doesn't work that way, he usually does what Coldblood does. Trojan horses his way into things, uses people, uses misdirection. Toying with people instead of killing them behind the scenes. "Stringing" the president up. Stringing them up, to cut them down. While Pepper was still a trophy to Killian, and Tony doesn't know about the hidden subroutines that modify behavior... Pepper saves Tony a few times so he needs her. Maya needed to lure Stark with Pepper. But Maya becomes useless because she can't fix the problems. Stark is only alive because his mind was still useful.... Even the whole story he's telling Banner could be remembered in a certain way that is like an edited version of Stark's memory. Where his subsconscious is leaving clues in the form of foreshadowing...

He knows what happened although only hints at it with things like "I'm not going completely crazy", the kid saying "we're connected" and knowing things in advance almost. Like when maya shows up at the door, he asks are you the Mandarin, and maybe other little clues his subconscious slipped in as he was trying to tell Banner that he took Extremis and now his mind has been trojan horsed by the Mandarin... His memory edited a certain way that repeatedly hints that he "fixed it" he's the "mechanic" Explaining some of Tony's state of mind as director of Shield. MIA/AIM would look the same forwards/backwards to the subconscious mind... So that these events all matter and happened, but Tony's being forced not to tell us the whole story.

His subconscious mind, controlling the suit in his sleep... Would now be protecting him instead of attacking him -- stopping the Mandarin from getting all the way in.
Pepper would never actually love Killian... Did he intend to change/reprogram her mind and turn her into a trophy somehow? Was she starting to get his martial arts abilities when she chopped through the armor?

Tony Stark created Iron Man as an artificial self-defense mechanism... it was a thought that became real and Tony is Iron Man, it's an extension of everything within him, and even giving it a name is representative of subconscious thought and our collective culture. Possibly naming himself Iron Man because of black Sabbath (in the first movie Stark says it's really not Iron but Iron sounds better to him)...
Since there are lots of parallels set up between the two, I think the deepest level of the movie could be that Killian will now always be The Real Mandarin... Was all along in this timeline/universe... as it's just a thought/persona he created, and will also return.

Killian created The Mandarin as an artificial self-defense mechanism too. A combination of symbols sure, but still with some meaning and a purpose to keep himself hidden/protected. It was a thought that became real, it became him the second he took credit for his artificial defense mechanism. His inspiration came from the collective consciousness... His ego makes him take credit for it like Stark and Killian is gone for now. All our symbols of evil were perverted and combined into one thought to pass through Killian's mind.... When he takes credit for that creation, he takes credit for another aspect of his mind... The super ego. The super villain The Mandarin.

I think there's very deep psychological levels to this tying back to the first movie, and that's why there's the joke about the head doctor.
IMO Killian has just become Tony's true equal opposite and The Mandarin will return.


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Old 05-06-2013, 06:20 PM   #61
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

I think sometime throughout Phase 2 (maybe in Cap 2, but more likely in Avengers 2) we will see Ben Kingsley. And we will see the signature orange glow under his skin. Showing that he has been infected by Extremis. And he'll have a line very similar to Ra's Al Ghul in BB.

Tony Stark - "The Mandarin is dead"
Trevor Slattery - "But is The Mandarin not immortal? Are his methods not supernatural?"

Haha. y'know, something similar, obviously not that. And then maybe he'll have more than just fire breath.

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:26 PM   #62
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Trevor would have no motive. He was a washed up drug addict who did anything for drugs. If anyone will return - it's Killian. Trevor was nobody but a pawn. And all of his "messages"? Clearly speeches written by Killian that he read off of a teleprompter. There is nothing backing up "Trevor is Mandarin" other than one of the five stage of grief.

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #63
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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Trevor would have no motive. He was a washed up drug addict who did anything for drugs. If anyone will return - it's Killian. Trevor was nobody but a pawn. And all of his "messages"? Clearly speeches written by Killian that he read off of a teleprompter. There is nothing backing up "Trevor is Mandarin" other than one of the five stage of grief.
Except for the fact (and it is a fact) that it would be far more interesting to everyone. Even people who liked Killian. The sheer shock of finding out that Killian persists in the body of a man we all thought was a decoy is far more intriguing than "Killian persists because of his healing factor."

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:40 PM   #64
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Killian surviving has already been set up - one HUGE explosion couldn't kill him, so how could that small explosion kill him? It's like a steam roller doesn't kill someone and then a car does. I'm pretty sure he did die, but at least in that theory some fans have - it's set up.

Here it just reeks of desperation and fan fiction to have an asian guy be Mandarin. Not to mention the implausibilities that it "magically" gives him powers that no one else with extremis has.

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:45 PM   #65
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

I already posted this in the news & speculation thread, but it makes more sense to copy & paste it here instead of typing a whole new post. Here's the original:

I caught a matinee earlier, and I have a few theories. I can't post a new thread yet, so I'll post here. Here goes!

Iron Man 3 is more connected to the greater MCU than Marvel would have us believe. Here's why!

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Mandarin is totally coming back.

We see Killian!Mandarin show off his regeneration abilities. They generally don't do things in these films for no reason. They wanted us to know he has a healing factor. He'll revive.

We're getting the true rings down the line.



Notice that Killian!Mandarin has an ornate ring on his right ring finger? In the comics, each ring of the Mandarin has a power. That particular ring (according to http://http://marvel.com/universe/Mandarin's_Rings) is his disintegration beam. We don't see a beam, per se, but we do see Killian!Mandarin cause an object's (armor's) cohesion to fall apart. That can be explained by Extremis, sure, but I think it could be a little nod to the alien rings.

The Mandarin was working with somebody (or something) with a connection to the cosmos.

The universe in the brain scene was definitely the same imagery we've seen in the past. Is he working with/for Thanos? Perhaps. Could it be the Red Skull (aka the guy that got teleported to that place)? Also a definite possibility. After all, AIM is a HYDRA offshoot in the comics.

That whole brain thing itself is important.

That empty slot is a huge part of this universe. What happens when it's filled? You get superpowers. Think about. Extremis was an attempt to fill that slot. It gave people crazy heat powers. The super soldier serum? I think it also filled the slot. Look at it this way. In CA:TFA, we get the explanation that the serum provides strength, but it also brings out the true qualities of the individual it's used on. That's why the Red Skull has the... well, red skull. That's why the Abomination became an overly aggressive madman. It also ties in with Stark's line in Avengers about how Bruce should have died, but he didn't. The Hulk was a part of him. His gamma experiment filled the slot. Also, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver were likely genetic freaks born with their slots filled. That's a fancy lawyer-friendly way of saying mutant.

The Man-Thing exists in the MCU, and this movie proves it.

In the movie, Ellen Brandt works for Aim. She's presumably from Florida (where AIM is located in the movie). Her face is scarred.
In the comics, Ellen Brandt works for Aim. She's from Florida. Her face is scarred.
Wanna know how she got those scars? (I swear that wasn't meant to be a Joker reference)
Ted Sallis. The Man-Thing. Her husband. All who know fear burn at the touch of the Man-Thing. The Man-Thing burned her after her betrayal in both continuities.

Tony's keeping tabs on S.H.I.E.L.D.

Early on, Stark has JARVIS check various databases for info on the Mandarin. One of these databases is S.H.I.E.L.D. As Keven Feige said in an interview, Stark isn't "looking for that helicarrier in the sky" in this movie, but there was certainly a S.H.I.E.L.D. presence, as there's been in all of the MCU films.


It's kind of interesting that people are complaining about all of the deviations from the comics in this film. I think that in hindsight we'll see that this film has just as many continuity nods as the other films. They're just subtle.

End of old post.

I'll also add this one thing I've been thinking about since then:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Perhaps Ben Kingsley will play the true Mandarin yet.

Remember Killian's brain? What if he copied his brain patterns? That's a concept that exists in the comics. In fact, both Ultron and the Vision are based around the brain patterns of other characters. With Ant-Man coming up, Ultron is likely in the future. Marvel Studios may want to bring this idea into the films. If Killian copied his brain patterns, the Mandarin may rise again, even if Killians healing powers weren't enough to revive. How does this tie into Trevor? Think about what AIM did to him. They gave him more drugs. He never said those drugs were meth or cocaine. What if it was something to prep him to get the brain patterns of Killian, the Mandarin? Killian was a scientist. Every scientist knows your work should always be backed up in case something terrible happens.

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:53 PM   #66
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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Originally Posted by Ultimatehero View Post
Killian surviving has already been set up - one HUGE explosion couldn't kill him, so how could that small explosion kill him? It's like a steam roller doesn't kill someone and then a car does. I'm pretty sure he did die, but at least in that theory some fans have - it's set up.

Here it just reeks of desperation and fan fiction to have an asian guy be Mandarin. Not to mention the implausibilities that it "magically" gives him powers that no one else with extremis has.
Now you're gonna say my speculation "reeks of desperation?" lovely.

Funny, I dont remember saying a damn thing about "Asia," "Asians," or "Magic."

However, if it pleases, I'll give up attempting to convince you. Happy? Coincidentally I wasn't attempting to convince you to begin with. So feel free to ignore me in the future. Or, better yet. Avoid the thread that has to do with Phase 2 speculation about The Mandarin's return. Just a thought.

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:54 PM   #67
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
I already posted this in the news & speculation thread, but it makes more sense to copy & paste it here instead of typing a whole new post. Here's the original:

I caught a matinee earlier, and I have a few theories. I can't post a new thread yet, so I'll post here. Here goes!

Iron Man 3 is more connected to the greater MCU than Marvel would have us believe. Here's why!

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Mandarin is totally coming back.

We see Killian!Mandarin show off his regeneration abilities. They generally don't do things in these films for no reason. They wanted us to know he has a healing factor. He'll revive.

We're getting the true rings down the line.



Notice that Killian!Mandarin has an ornate ring on his right ring finger? In the comics, each ring of the Mandarin has a power. That particular ring (according to http://http://marvel.com/universe/Mandarin's_Rings) is his disintegration beam. We don't see a beam, per se, but we do see Killian!Mandarin cause an object's (armor's) cohesion to fall apart. That can be explained by Extremis, sure, but I think it could be a little nod to the alien rings.

The Mandarin was working with somebody (or something) with a connection to the cosmos.

The universe in the brain scene was definitely the same imagery we've seen in the past. Is he working with/for Thanos? Perhaps. Could it be the Red Skull (aka the guy that got teleported to that place)? Also a definite possibility. After all, AIM is a HYDRA offshoot in the comics.

That whole brain thing itself is important.

That empty slot is a huge part of this universe. What happens when it's filled? You get superpowers. Think about. Extremis was an attempt to fill that slot. It gave people crazy heat powers. The super soldier serum? I think it also filled the slot. Look at it this way. In CA:TFA, we get the explanation that the serum provides strength, but it also brings out the true qualities of the individual it's used on. That's why the Red Skull has the... well, red skull. That's why the Abomination became an overly aggressive madman. It also ties in with Stark's line in Avengers about how Bruce should have died, but he didn't. The Hulk was a part of him. His gamma experiment filled the slot. Also, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver were likely genetic freaks born with their slots filled. That's a fancy lawyer-friendly way of saying mutant.

The Man-Thing exists in the MCU, and this movie proves it.

In the movie, Ellen Brandt works for Aim. She's presumably from Florida (where AIM is located in the movie). Her face is scarred.
In the comics, Ellen Brandt works for Aim. She's from Florida. Her face is scarred.
Wanna know how she got those scars? (I swear that wasn't meant to be a Joker reference)
Ted Sallis. The Man-Thing. Her husband. All who know fear burn at the touch of the Man-Thing. The Man-Thing burned her after her betrayal in both continuities.

Tony's keeping tabs on S.H.I.E.L.D.

Early on, Stark has JARVIS check various databases for info on the Mandarin. One of these databases is S.H.I.E.L.D. As Keven Feige said in an interview, Stark isn't "looking for that helicarrier in the sky" in this movie, but there was certainly a S.H.I.E.L.D. presence, as there's been in all of the MCU films.


It's kind of interesting that people are complaining about all of the deviations from the comics in this film. I think that in hindsight we'll see that this film has just as many continuity nods as the other films. They're just subtle.

End of old post.

I'll also add this one thing I've been thinking about since then:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Perhaps Ben Kingsley will play the true Mandarin yet.

Remember Killian's brain? What if he copied his brain patterns? That's a concept that exists in the comics. In fact, both Ultron and the Vision are based around the brain patterns of other characters. With Ant-Man coming up, Ultron is likely in the future. Marvel Studios may want to bring this idea into the films. If Killian copied his brain patterns, the Mandarin may rise again, even if Killians healing powers weren't enough to revive. How does this tie into Trevor? Think about what AIM did to him. They gave him more drugs. He never said those drugs were meth or cocaine. What if it was something to prep him to get the brain patterns of Killian, the Mandarin? Killian was a scientist. Every scientist knows your work should always be backed up in case something terrible happens.
Now, you sir. Have some fun ideas. I will enjoy discussing them with you. Much more fun than just shooting down other people's ideas. Which seems to be a pastime of certain posters in this thread.

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:01 PM   #68
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
Now you're gonna say my speculation "reeks of desperation?" lovely.

Funny, I dont remember saying a damn thing about "Asia," "Asians," or "Magic."

However, if it pleases, I'll give up attempting to convince you. Happy? Coincidentally I wasn't attempting to convince you to begin with. So feel free to ignore me in the future. Or, better yet. Avoid the thread that has to do with Phase 2 speculation about The Mandarin's return. Just a thought.
You've blatantly disregarded the points. Even when cherokeesam brought these points up. You've ignored them

So how exactly is Trevor going to get these "magical" powers that have absolutely nothing at all to do with Extremis?

Try to come up with a logical explanation that isn't reaching.

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:07 PM   #69
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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You've blatantly disregarded the points. Even when cherokeesam brought these points up. You've ignored them

So how exactly is Trevor going to get these "magical" powers that have absolutely nothing at all to do with Extremis?

Try to come up with a logical explanation that isn't reaching.
Here you go, let me show you what some people think about Extremis and that ever so specific "brain slot" everyone seems to have noticed except you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
I think the seeds that IM3 planted were:

AIM

The "slot" in our heads where Extremis plugs in. It's a generic catch-all for all future superpowers, good or evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Good finds all...

The slot in the brain explains Wanda and Pietro pretty much, perhaps with some goading from some super science, or even a stabilized Extremis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
That aside, the things that stood out to me were:

-Brain Slot
-AIM
-Tony's decision
Oh my, seems like quite a few people think that what you claim to be "magical" powers are something of a possibility.

So rather than being such a negative nancy, why don't you either discuss that with us, or get out?

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:09 PM   #70
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

You're still refusing to answer the question, which I suspected. How would extremis just suddenly morph into the magical powers of the rings?

Also the thread title? Is alluding more to everything that was set up in IM 3 leading into the other films -- not just one person's guess that Trevor will become Mandarin and by luck extremis will somehow magically transform into the powers of the rings.

How does extremis transform into the power of the rings?

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:12 PM   #71
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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You're still refusing to answer the question, which I suspected. How would extremis just suddenly morph into the magical powers of the rings?

Also the thread title? Is alluding more to everything that was set up in IM 3 leading into the other films -- not just one person's guess that Trevor will become Mandarin and by luck extremis will somehow magically transform into the powers of the rings.

How does extremis transform into the power of the rings?
This. Is something I never said. Good day.

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:15 PM   #72
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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And then maybe he'll have more than just fire breath.
So, how exactly would he have more powers than extremis?

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #73
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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So, how exactly would he have more powers than extremis?
Wow. See, now we could delete the past 10 posts and actually have a legitimate speculative discussion. Shoulda just started with this question.

Well, the way they seemed to describe Extremis in the context of the human brain, is that it "harnesses our bioelectrical potential" so while, in the course of the film they only find a way to make that give humans super strength, a healing factor and expel energy as heat, in the future they (AIM) may find a way to use that "brain slot" in even more ways. Including perhaps expelling energy in other ways.

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:26 PM   #74
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

Then that brings up the other point, from somewhere else -- I am seriously getting a headache with all this jumping, these posts are like those comic arcs that go cross-books.

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Old 05-06-2013, 07:45 PM   #75
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Default Re: Iron Man 3: More than Meets the Eye...

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You're still refusing to answer the question, which I suspected. How would extremis just suddenly morph into the magical powers of the rings?

Also the thread title? Is alluding more to everything that was set up in IM 3 leading into the other films -- not just one person's guess that Trevor will become Mandarin and by luck extremis will somehow magically transform into the powers of the rings.

How does extremis transform into the power of the rings?
Not to jump into the discussion you seem to be having or anything, but I've actually got a theory that relates to your extremis/ring powers thing. I think that we'll actually see the true rings down the line, not extremis that somehow provides the exact same powers. I'm thinking we're just getting a more gradual buildup to them. It won't come across as hokey that way, and the rings will likely be modified to have an origin that will fit better into the MCU. I think that, regardless of which Mandarin wields them, he got them/will get them from either Thanos or the Red Skull. I got into this in one of my earlier theories, but I think that Killian was working with or for either Thanos or the Red Skull. That's what the universe image may have meant. A bit coincidental that it looked just like where the Red Skull wound up, no?

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