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Old 11-14-2015, 09:27 AM   #1
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Default Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

Not sure this is allowed but I am hoping we can talk about our love (or even like) for Man of Steel in here without it getting derailed into a bashing MOS topic. Now I understand that some people will probably take issue with such a thread but I think given the fact every other thread turns into arguments regarding the film it would be good to have a new topic where those of us who are fans of the film have a place to discuss away from the negativity of the other threads. Also I would love it if people talked about their experience firs seeing Man of Steel and what it meant to them.

Man of Steel was a seminal movie for me, growing up I was (and still am) a fan of the Christopher Reeve movies. But seen as though those films came out at a time they did I wanted to see a Superman film where Superman really gets to throw down with some super powered villains (done more modern). Thankfully Superman TAS and later Justice League/Unlimited gave me that in animated form for a long while. But it was live action I really wanted to see it done and done well. Smallville came along and gave me a taste of that, minus the costume, flight and full on fights etc. In 2006 we got Superman Returns, while that gave us some great effects shots including the incredible plane sequence we didn't get to see Superman take on anyone super powered (or even non super powered really). Whilst it's a film I did and still like it wasn't that film that I wanted.

In the years to come, we'd had even more animated films, more episodes of Smallville and plenty of failed attempts (Superman a Unleashed, Miller's JL Mortal). Then suddenly there were rumblings of Christopher Nolan producing the new Superman movie from a pitch by David Goyer and al of a sudden it was a reality. Zack Snyder was brought in as director and months later Henry Cavill (the fan favourite) was cast as Superman. Dreams were beginning to become reality as the casting choices were excellent. I'll never forget when the first Superman still hit , Cavill looked like he'd stepped right out of John Byrnes 'Man of Steel' and right onto the page. The build up to the film been released is one of my favourite times ever been a Superman fan.

Jump to June 14th 2013 and the film was released worldwide, I didn't get to see it until the morning of June 15th as I was at my sister in laws wedding on the day of release. I rushed back from North Yorkshire on the Sat morning via train to see it with my brother and a friend. I didn't feel well, getting up extra early afte been up so late didn't help but nothing was going to stop me seeing this film. It's strange I remember feeling a little weird about it opening with Lara giving birth, tbh I was suprised it started that way. Anyway come the end of the film when Lois says "welcome to the Planet" and Clark replies "glad to be here Lois" smiling from ear to ear I was thrilled. I'd finally seen it, that film I wanted to see. It had lived up to the hype, it was as good as that incredible third trailer (still the best trailer I've ever seen for a film).

Looking back now was it as good as I remembered? I'd say yes but I'd also say my own overhype for the film (we all do it when we've just seen something exciting) made me rank it slightly higher than I do now. It's still for me one of the greatest superhero films ever made and without doubt the best superhero made in the boom of Comic Book movies (I consider that starting with Blade in 1999 or was it 98? Who cares).

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Old 11-14-2015, 10:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

Ended up watching it last night after reading the other thread. Still love it personally, and would take it over a lot of the MCU movies, though not all.

If BvS can top it that may well end my favourite CBM of all time.

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Old 11-14-2015, 10:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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Ended up watching it last night after reading the other thread. Still love it personally, and would take it over a lot of the MCU movies, though not all.

If BvS can top it that may well end my favourite CBM of all time.
It's very possible

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Old 11-14-2015, 10:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

This is a great idea for a thread.

For now, I'd like to state one stand-out moment in the film for me:
Superman punching Zod, screaming "You dare threaten my mother?!" gave me major goosebumps in the theater. Really highlighted not only what a powerful and emotional character Superman is, but it also struck me how great a tool cinema is that it can make us feel that power and emotion through a screen.

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Old 11-14-2015, 10:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

^I love that part.

Anyways, I thought Man of Steel was a totally captivating movie. I can understand how some people would hate it if it didn't click for them, but it totally did for me.

I'll also say that I really liked Jonathan Kent. Pretty much all his scenes. The last one was just perfect.

Martha Kent as well.

I feel like this movie has a ton of heart at its core.


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Old 11-14-2015, 10:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

^ I especially liked Ma Kent. Diane Lane really brought that character to life. Judging by the BvS trailer, it looks like she does an even better job in Dawn of Justice.

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Old 11-14-2015, 11:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

Yeah that's a great moment, in that moment he's "simply you threatened my Mum". We can relate to that and we would all act the same (if we had super powers).

My favourite part of the film is the one leading right up to that, the whole Escape From Black Zero sequence is fantastic. The music, Jor El teaming up with Lois, Superman having his last talk with Jor El then flying off to save Lois.

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Old 11-14-2015, 11:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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Yeah that's a great moment, in that moment he's "simply you threatened my Mum". We can relate to that and we would all act the same (if we had super powers).

My favourite part of the film is the one leading right up to that, the whole Escape From Black Zero sequence is fantastic. The music, Jor El teaming up with Lois, Superman having his last talk with Jor El then flying off to save Lois.
Yeah I love that scene too, it's basically the start of Zod and Superman becoming arch enemies when previously there just a lot of mistrust.

Personally I love the priest scene and what follows. The priest telling Clark he needs to take a leap of faith with humanity first, then he will earn their trust, and then it cuts to the scene of Superman floating in front of the army base which I just love.

Priest scene reminded me a bit of For Tomorrow as well.

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Old 11-14-2015, 12:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

The scenes with young Clark were well done. I loved the scene where his powers start going off at school and Ma Kent has to come and calm him down.

First flight scene was very well done. And I enjoyed the smallville fight. Faora was a total badass. And oh yeah the "You think you can threaten my mother" was a badass.

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Old 11-14-2015, 12:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

I just love the Welcome to the Planet ending so much, could they have picked a better way to end the film? Not for me


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Old 11-14-2015, 12:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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I just love the Welcome to the Planet ending so much, could they have picked a better way to end the film? Not for me

Agreed, that last scene is just perfect. Then it ends with theme kicking in big time, great stuff.

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Old 11-14-2015, 01:10 PM   #12
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Agreed, that last scene is just perfect. Then it ends with theme kicking in big time, great stuff.
Aye and how awesome is that theme? It's up there with some other great modern ones like the X2 one for me.

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Old 11-14-2015, 01:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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Aye and how awesome is that theme? It's up there with some other great modern ones like the X2 one for me.
Definitely, love it!

Another moment I love is when we see Clark getting bullied as a kid and pushed down. Johnathan asks if he is okay inside rather than physically. Then later he thanks Lois for believing in him and she replies "it didn't seem to make much difference!"

Superman then replies "it did to me!" Indicating the difference was made to him inside.

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Old 11-14-2015, 01:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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Definitely, love it!

Another moment I love is when we see Clark getting bullied as a kid and pushed down. Johnathan asks if he is okay inside rather than physically. Then later he thanks Lois for believing in him and she replies "it didn't seem to make much difference!"

Superman then replies "it did to me!" Indicating the difference was made to him inside.
My favourite part of the bullying scene is when we see how hard he's squeezed the pole on the fence lol

That believing moment is probably my favourite Clark and Lois moment.

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Old 11-14-2015, 01:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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My favourite part of the bullying scene is when we see how hard he's squeezed the pole on the fence lol

That believing moment is probably my favourite Clark and Lois moment.
Yep, love all those moments.

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Old 11-14-2015, 01:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

I know I'm probably in minority here but I love the costume in MOS more than the updated one in BvS.

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Old 11-14-2015, 05:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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I know I'm probably in minority here but I love the costume in MOS more than the updated one in BvS.
I'm with you. The MoS suit is near perfection.

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Old 11-14-2015, 10:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

Like the idea a lot! There can still be threads that allow for dislike, but I agree that its tedious after a while to read an endless loop of attack/defense. Does a view of the film that recognizes it as good or great overall but has some things that it could've done better (constructive criticism) have a place here, though?

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Old 11-15-2015, 01:19 AM   #19
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

Hey, great thread, forget the haters.

I loved MOS in the cinema, saw it four times. Walking out of it I felt the same way I did, back in 1978, as an 8 year old walking out of Superman the Movie. And, I say this after going into it expecting to hate it. I went in all " Superman doesn't kill" but within the context of the story, Zod's death made total sense.

I feel like it was a movie that needed some tweaks, but was pretty awesome anyway. I will freely admit it's not perfect and there's a bunch of stuff that could have been better - but the film did everything it needed to do to re-establish Superman on the big screen.

This was a chest hair sporting-jeans-wearing-helping mom with the dishes-manual labour job havin- football watchin-Bud drinking- Plato's Republic reading Superman that was very relatable, and what Superman needs to be (for the 21st Century).

I have no idea why people question the heart of this film, because it had tons of heart ! Every scene with Diane Lane or Kevin Costner were magic - even that final flashback which has no dialogue at all.

Best part of the film is Clark's first appearance as Superman, learning to fly - that scene alone was as good as anything in any other Superman film.

Why Mark Waid hated it, I struggle to understand.

I could go on with more positive stuff about MOS, but now there's a thread I can take my time and share more positive thoughts later.

Zimmer absolutely nailed the music for this one, even better than his work on TDK (and a lot better than on TDKR).

If you liked the music, check out this, it's amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joQWMecJmDk

I still use it to motivate myself at work.

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Old 11-15-2015, 03:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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Like the idea a lot! There can still be threads that allow for dislike, but I agree that its tedious after a while to read an endless loop of attack/defense. Does a view of the film that recognizes it as good or great overall but has some things that it could've done better (constructive criticism) have a place here, though?
I don't mind, I just don't want stuff to get too negative cause tbh I'm becoming a more positive person but constructive criticsm is absolutely fine. There are a few things I would change in the film myself but of course I note I have the benefit of hindsight and those things I would change don't really bother me too much how they are.

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Old 11-15-2015, 03:19 AM   #21
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Why Mark Waid hated it, I struggle to understand.
He didn't wholly hate it, I remember he said he was enjoying it up until a certain point which I think was the death of Jonathan Kent (tbh that's one of the things I'd change but for me it's how it was edited) and then I think Superman killing Zod tipped him over the edge. You are a 100% correct when you say that made sense in the story,nthe way it had unfolded. I think the worst criticsm I have heard of that is that the writers shouldn't have put Superman in that position. I ask why shouldn't they? It's very likely if this thing actually happened it would end with one killing the other.

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Old 11-15-2015, 08:07 AM   #22
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(Let me sincerely apologize in advance for citing Moviepilot articles that I have written, but please be advised they are the antithesis of most of what is published there!)

What I Loved About Man of Steel:

MoS is a retelling of the Superman story, and I was very ready and open to seeing something different done with the character and story (see my thinking on this here, here, and here).

It uses a meticulously crafted mythic and archetypal approach combined with 'what would all this look like in the real world?' that I think is genius. MoS begins a general approach we'll see in the DCEU of using superheroes to tell more human and mythic types of stories, i.e., with themes that transcend the genre's conventions.

Superman shatters the mold of what Zack Snyder has termed an "apple pie and Chevrolet... American Dream" portrayal of the past. Individual taste is obviously going to vary on this (and how!). But as for myself I appreciated finally seeing what I consider a sophisticated style of storytelling for this character in particular.

The elaboration and detail of the Kryptonian civilization is rich and enthralling to me. I especially enjoy Crowe's Jor-El and I really hope he returns in future films to mentor Superman in his Fortress of Solitude (i.e., that his AI was secretly backed up elsewhere despite being erased from the scout ship by Zod). Krypton's 'fall' is treated as tragedy, which I think is also great stuff.

Superman is framed within a kind of Greek tragic myth as a lost, wandering soul on an odyssey of self-discovery (see here for elaboration of this idea).

There is possible symbolism throughout the film of a biological childbirth metaphor of Superman's emerging identity (see here; props to Reel Analysis for what appears to be a brilliant theory/interpretation; see SHH discussion thread here) that, I would assert, metaphorically makes him a bastard product of rape (imo similar to the origin for Zeus's demigod offspring). This deepens the tragic feel to the character.

Henry Cavill, Russell Crowe, Kevin Costner, Michael Shannon, Diane Lane, Ayelet Zurer, Amy Adams, Lawrence Fishburn all give wonderful performances. Loved all of them.

The action scenes--especially all the fight scenes--and of course CGI--were truly epic. So gratifying to see Superman finally throwing down in a way that truly does justice to his powers! The Donner films can't even touch this (not their fault due to the technology of the day; and Superman: The Movie at least has a lot of other great things to offer).

Constructive Criticism: What (IMHO) Could Have Been Improved:

I think I understand the use of color desaturation to accentuate the somber, pensive feel of the story (I'm okay that it has that mood). And I respect Snyder's choice of this color palette as an artist. But I'm not convinced that it was actually necessary. Perhaps it makes the film darker than it really need be. In particular the blue/gray tones don't do Amy Adams any favors--very unflattering for her, it makes her look washed out. I still would like to see the film in true color one day.





The romantic chemistry could have felt more convincing between Lois and Superman, but overall the attraction was something I could mostly buy-in to.

The one main shortcoming that I do see to Snyder's work, brilliant as he is in working with with mythic themes, symbolism, and visual elements, is that he has a ways to go yet in giving us characters that are as warm and relatable as they ideally could be. I love 300, Man of Steel, and to a great extent Watchmen (although the latter not quite as much as the other two: only seen it once, though, and have never read the graphic novel). And those films all do fundamentally make me care about their characters and what happens to them. I consider those films to be visionary masterpieces, and visual masterworks. But a more fully human emotional and psychological relatability and depth to his characters is the one key ingredient that Snyder's films are as yet slightly anemic with, imho.

To elaborate a little more, the warmth and relatability of, say, Steve Rogers in Captain America: The First Avenger, Tony Stark in the entire Iron Man series, and pretty much every member of the group in Guardians of the Galaxy seems to be missing in Snyder's films. It's the one missing ingredient from Snyder that I crave in a good fantastic adventure story. For all the other things he does so brilliantly. (Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole is an example of Snyder trying to create warm and relatable characters--and for me it failed miserably. I just didn't really warm up at all to the characters, or that whole mythical world of owls that they inhabit. The film's attempt to make the owls cute and likable or whatever just didn't work for me. There's some interesting mythic symbolism embedded within the story, but it's not enough to make me enjoy the film.)


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Old 11-15-2015, 02:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

I watched this again this morning, still love it.

My favourie scene is definitely the Escape From Black Zero one. The best but for me by far is when the atmosphere changes and Superman breaks the cuffs holding him to the table then just gives Jax Ur that look.

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Old 11-16-2015, 04:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

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I watched this again this morning, still love it.

My favourie scene is definitely the Escape From Black Zero one. The best but for me by far is when the atmosphere changes and Superman breaks the cuffs holding him to the table then just gives Jax Ur that look.
Ah, favorite scenes!

I agree btw, that's a great one.

I really like the scene in which Jor-El obtains the Codex. In addition to just being exciting, I love that he uses a dragon, a living creature, in contrast with the spacecraft (cold technology) that are chasing him. I think that it reflects that he's still in touch with the humanistic side of the Kryptonian civilization (or at least that it once had), as symbolized by a natural, organic thing. That aspect of Jor-El augments the theme that Kal-El is the first Kryptonian natural childbirth in centuries.




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Old 11-17-2015, 01:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: Man of Steel Positive Reflections and Discussion Thread

Great choice, the whole a Krypton sequence is immense I would have watched a full two hour movie on that

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