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Old 05-05-2013, 12:23 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is it possible? (MAJOR spoilers)

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I'm worried we won't know for sure... That instead of any sort of clues to the next movies it could continue in a similar way until Cap 2 and the Shield show where some of the background info will begin to be filled. As mainly a standalone with only a few tiny hints as to what may be going on in Avengers 2. However, I really do think the Other has to be in that movie, and Thanos is somehow referenced in that movie.

The thing is, there's also been comments about how CA2 is where secrets will be revealed. that it's sort of a political thriller. Even Widow's look is a little bit styled on her Secret Avengers look... Cap is working for Shield but Fury might have a disagreement with his boss/old friend.
In the comic Redford's character is around when Shield is being secretly overrun by the Deltites, shapeshifters that can replace people and copy their powers.

So, instead of deltites the Space Phantoms are originally from a planet Thanos has conquered... We start to find out all about the Masters evil plots within Captain America 2, but their more like Acts of Vengence at this point, taking on the Secret Avengers in a massive conspiracy thriller that will show the many personifications of Killian's evil and how Tony was right during the investigation scene, Mandarin means adviser to the Emperor. killian was just one of the heads of Hydra, Zemo, and Zola's hidden Empire of multinational umbrella corps and false fronts, financial institutions that have been defrauded by Zemo as his side of the surprise attack.

Alexander Pierce, Fury's boss does accounting and stumbles onto Zemo siphoning money, even out of Shield. At the same time he has bigger probs.

He can't trust Cap and Fury -- they think Zemo's plot goes back decades (and it does...). But Cap and Fury sound crazy when they go rogue because they can't tell who or what is secretly overthrowing Earth.
Turns out it's space phantoms (Thanos's elite spies) and the Masters.
The Masters have secretly taken control of key positions over society...
However so have some aliens that scare even the Masters...
That's my full theory lol
Sounds pretty awesome

We know we're all reaching for the stars here...but what's the fun in just sitting and waiting??

I think this would be pretty cool..but who is Alexander Pierce,?

wait that's redford's role, right?

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Old 05-05-2013, 12:32 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is it possible? (MAJOR spoilers)

It's sci-fi, so they could bring him back and...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Guy Pierce is the Mandarin

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Old 05-05-2013, 12:45 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is it possible? (MAJOR spoilers)

I really don't want Avengers 2's villains to be a bunch of guys that have already been defeated teaming up to fight the guys who beat them (plus The Hulk and more).

My hope is that Thanos will kill the Guardians of the Galaxy. Just exterminate them and end the movie with the last remaining member fleeing to earth to summon help. I want the odds to really be in favor of the villain, make him seem unstoppable. That's why I was hoping that the 10 rings would be infinity gems, and the gauntlet would be in Thor...putting the pieces together for the most unstoppable threat ever.

But you know...they went another direction.

I do love Zemo and would really dig it if he were actually treated like a real threat.

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Old 05-05-2013, 12:47 AM   #29
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It's sci-fi, so they could bring him back and...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Guy Pierce is the Mandarin
If that's the case keep him dead.

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Old 05-05-2013, 12:51 AM   #30
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Sounds pretty awesome

We know we're all reaching for the stars here...but what's the fun in just sitting and waiting??

I think this would be pretty cool..but who is Alexander Pierce,?

wait that's redford's role, right?
Yeah Redford's character, here's from the marvel wiki:

"Alexander Pierce majored at S.H.I.E.L.D. (Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law-Enforcement Division) Academy in civilian surveillance and served in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Accounting Department before becoming a "sleeper Agent" of S.H.I.E.L.D. as an expert in decoding Class A dispatches from the subversive organization HYDRA.
When S.H.I.E.L.D. was secretly taken over by the Deltites, artificially created duplicates of human beings, the Deltites forced S.H.I.E.L.D. Public Director Nick Fury into the role of a renegade and fugitive. Fury recruited Pierce to function as his right hand man. Together they perpetrated a series of break-ins at S.H.I.E.L.D. installations, including a Class C Armory and Communications Station in Philadelphia. The information they acquired was carefully leaked and inaccurate."

I think some of their comments about CA2 being like Avengers 1.5 could also point to the fact that it's like a Secret Avengers team that Cap forms, as they go rogue from Shield.
So in my theory Tony Stark will return... in a new and surprising way... as Director of Shield after Fury goes rogue on the trail of what the masters are up to..

This secret invasion from within, and the deltite/space phantom secret invasion from without, makes it hard to know who to trust... The Avengers have to learn to trust each other to continue on the same team... Cap has his team and Stark has his, made out of mind controlled villains who escape from the prison... Thor stuck in the middle, the only one the space phantom can't copy too. So that the Masters are there, but the Avengers "worst enemies are themselves" like Whedon said Tony only knows so much about what Killian was up to from his story, it turns out Cap and Fury witness parts of what the Masters are up to in CA2 or as Feige called it "Avengers 1.5" and find more to the story. Tony disagrees. His ego is still being defensive...

So, Cap starts to take his team and they go rogue from shield, Tony's hero arc is over, and he returns as the new director of Shield (giving the other new Avengers more time for the first half). As disagreements come about between both teams, the Masters and the Avengers. And everyone creates their own demons, their worst enemies are actually themselves would be the theme. But the Avengers overcome their differences... As the Masters fall apart...


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Old 05-05-2013, 12:53 AM   #31
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I really don't want Avengers 2's villains to be a bunch of guys that have already been defeated teaming up to fight the guys who beat them (plus The Hulk and more).

My hope is that Thanos will kill the Guardians of the Galaxy. Just exterminate them and end the movie with the last remaining member fleeing to earth to summon help. I want the odds to really be in favor of the villain, make him seem unstoppable. That's why I was hoping that the 10 rings would be infinity gems, and the gauntlet would be in Thor...putting the pieces together for the most unstoppable threat ever.

But you know...they went another direction.

I do love Zemo and would really dig it if he were actually treated like a real threat.
But thats the thing, if what we are discussing actually happens, these villains haven't been defeated. Just the Mandarin's vessel (Aldrich Killian) has been defeated. And The Leader wasn't even fought. Let alone defeated. And in regards to Zemo/Zola/Amora whoever else they might choose, we don't know that they will or won't be defeated. That's what's intelligent about using the Masters [of Evil] this time around. If they prepare it correctly, the villains they chose aren't going to be roundly defeated the first time around. But rather in the shadows until they strike with full fury and vengeance.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:00 AM   #32
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But thats the thing, if what we are discussing actually happens, these villains haven't been defeated. Just the Mandarin's vessel (Aldrich Killian) has been defeated. And The Leader wasn't even fought. Let alone defeated. And in regards to Zemo/Zola/Amora whoever else they might choose, we don't know that they will or won't be defeated. That's what's intelligent about using the Masters [of Evil] this time around. If they prepare it correctly, the villains they chose aren't going to be roundly defeated the first time around. But rather in the shadows until they strike with full fury and vengeance.
and it would be politically..sort of like an uber terrorist organization...thank god this **** is fictional lol

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:00 AM   #33
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I hate any team that calls themselves Blankety Blank "Evil"...it's just a stupid term. Most great villains don't believe that what they are doing is wrong. That is what I really liked about the character we originally believed to be The Mandarin. Whether he was right or wrong, he "believed" that he was doing the right thing. Killian was working all sides to get personal power/money...which somehow devolved into a revenge ploy on Stark. When a villain is doing evil because they are evil, my interest decreases right out of the gate. This is why it's so important to have fully developed bad guys. Otherwise you just have a parade of meaningless punching bags for our heroes.

I know that isn't the point...but if they use a group in Avengers 2, I hope they give it some other name than Masters of Evil.


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Old 05-05-2013, 01:09 AM   #34
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and it would be politically..sort of like an uber terrorist organization...thank god this **** is fictional lol
In my opinion, this is the true subversion of Iron Man 3. It isn't deconstructing superheroes or redefining blah blah (not that I want to have the debate here)...but it is flat out saying that government, corporations and extremist terror groups are all really connected and going for the same goals. This movie is begging the public to look at how, even now, we are funding al Qaeda groups, supplying them with weapons and assisting them in their overthrow of countries. According to the fiction of the movie, we were tied in with Bin ladin as well (well...we actually DID train and fund him, helped him recruit etc...but I think the film was implying that the US government was in on his terror attacks...and one could assume that means 9/11). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this continued into Captain America 2.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:11 AM   #35
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No, no and no. Also, no. Now that i think about it, no.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:12 AM   #36
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I hate any team that calls themselves Blankety Blank "Evil"...it's just a stupid term. Most great villains don't believe that what they are doing is wrong. That is what I really liked about the character we originally believed to be The Mandarin. Whether he was right or wrong, he "believed" that he was doing the right thing. Killian was working all sides to get personal power/money...which somehow devolved into a revenge ploy on Stark. When a villain is doing evil because they are evil, my interest decreases right out of the gate. This is why it's so important to have fully developed bad guys. Otherwise you just have a parade of meaningless punching bags for our heroes.

I know that isn't the point...but if they use a group in Avengers 2, I hope they give it some other name than Masters of Evil.
I do think it would just be Masters. Just like they called the Mandarin in IM3.

its like changing the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to just the Brotherhood of Mutants.

Because you are right. Very few villains (if any) think what they are doing is evil. I can't honestly think of one.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:35 AM   #37
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I do think it would just be Masters. Just like they called the Mandarin in IM3.

its like changing the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to just the Brotherhood of Mutants.

Because you are right. Very few villains (if any) think what they are doing is evil. I can't honestly think of one.
exactly. Which in a way, makes it morals. Evil is a very very subjective word.

Which is weird.

to be honest with you, I doubt they will call themselves anything, IF they show up. i think we are just referencing them because it has some members.

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Old 05-05-2013, 03:22 AM   #38
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Why should Marvel Studios abandon their most successful solo hero franchise at the height of its popularity? I seriously doubt Disney, with all the money they have invested in Marvel, would be too happy with this.

Iron Man is one of Marvel's oldest heroes - he's been around for 50 years so I am sure there are more than three stories to be told with him.

If we can have over 20 Bond movies we should be able to have a few more Iron Mans...
Becasue if you keep making them back to back and you get a stedy stream of bad reviews you can potential run and character/franchise into the ground over time. see Ghost Rider


It's best to only use IM in the Avengers until the Avengers 3 then recast Tony with a younger actor in his late 30s or 40s and do a new Ironman Trilogy.

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Old 05-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #39
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I actually think that, not only could Killian justifiably return ( yeah he got exploded, but we already saw him recovering from one explosion; the second could have killed him, or it could just as reasonably have merely durantly incapacitated him ), but he'd be a perfectly viable leader for the Masters of Evil ( no, they wouldn't have that name ). Guy isn't just a scientist, he also founded and organized an entire villainous organization. I could entirely buy him, say, spearheading a prison break at whatever SHIELD's super prison is, then recruiting everyone he can from there.

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:01 AM   #40
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Killian was the 'real' Mandarin, as far as we know, Ben Kingsley character was just a decoy. Though I don’t mind it they change the actor for future installments, and make Ben Kingsley the real Mandarin,,

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:19 AM   #41
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Killian was the 'real' Mandarin, as far as we know, Ben Kingsley character was just a decoy. Though I don’t mind it they change the actor for future installments, and make Ben Kingsley the real Mandarin,,
Kingsley is the Mandarin everyone will remember. For better or for worse...

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:29 AM   #42
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Killian is the Mandarin in the contex of the film. He is the mastermind behind the attacks, he is the one who wants to bring Tony down to his knees. He IS the Mandarin. I don't like it that much either mainly because its TOO far from the comics and Ben Kingsley actually looked good as the "Mandarin" with the rings and all.

The Avengers was a great opportunity to do the Mandarin properly, an Alien ship came to earth they could drop a vessel that had the 10 rings in them so instead of Makluan make them Chitauri or Thanos related. BUT !! like it or not Iron Man 3 HAD BALLS !!!

PS : Why don't people treat the movies as Elseworld stories ? It still follows the source material but also takes artistic liberties.

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Old 05-06-2013, 08:32 AM   #43
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Kingsley is the Mandarin everyone will remember. For better or for worse...
That remains to be seen.
Nobody remembers Ken Watanabe from Batman Begins, but most agree that Liam Neeson was a pretty good villain in that movie.

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:54 AM   #44
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I don't want to see Killian/Mandarin return. If there was a need to continue, which I think they shouldn't, but if there was then Justin Hammer should be involved in some capacity after his arrest in IM2. He has a vendetta against Tony and Pepper. They need to bring an intimidation factor to him instead of the comic relief he was.

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #45
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Ken Watanabe's character wasn't developed at all, had 4 mins screen time, said 3 forgetable sentences and was immediately killed. Don't compare Kingsley with Watanabe.

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Old 05-06-2013, 02:32 PM   #46
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I dont see any reason Killian/The Mandarin couldnt come back, as others have said, we dont actually see him die and saw him recover from other wounds.

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Old 05-06-2013, 02:34 PM   #47
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Hell even
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Savin could be alive...who the heck blew up air force one afterwards anyways?

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Old 05-06-2013, 03:25 PM   #48
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Killian is the Mandarin in the contex of the film. He is the mastermind behind the attacks, he is the one who wants to bring Tony down to his knees. He IS the Mandarin. I don't like it that much either mainly because its TOO far from the comics and Ben Kingsley actually looked good as the "Mandarin" with the rings and all.

The Avengers was a great opportunity to do the Mandarin properly, an Alien ship came to earth they could drop a vessel that had the 10 rings in them so instead of Makluan make them Chitauri or Thanos related. BUT !! like it or not Iron Man 3 HAD BALLS !!!

PS : Why don't people treat the movies as Elseworld stories ? It still follows the source material but also takes artistic liberties.
Or, IM3 had no balls. IM3 was not ballsy enough to do alien rings. You're right. They were setup nearly-perfectly from an alien invasion in The Avengers. Show us something on screen we'd never witnessed before. Yet they decided to take the safe route with a patsy-Mandarin and a superpowered scientist.

Hell I didnt even want alien rings and that sounds more thrilling than what we got.

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:23 PM   #49
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Hell even
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Savin could be alive...who the heck blew up air force one afterwards anyways?
I think that was probably
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Savin himself exploding. Though it could have just been accumulated damage to the aircraft.

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:54 PM   #50
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Or, IM3 had no balls. IM3 was not ballsy enough to do alien rings. You're right. They were setup nearly-perfectly from an alien invasion in The Avengers. Show us something on screen we'd never witnessed before. Yet they decided to take the safe route with a patsy-Mandarin and a superpowered scientist.

Hell I didnt even want alien rings and that sounds more thrilling than what we got.
I would argue it was wise: if they wanted to have the Magical Rings, then they should have abandoned any plan to use Thanos, as the Rings would take away from the Infinity Gauntlet.

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