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View Poll Results: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...
Love it! 92 36.51%
It's okay... 56 22.22%
Hate it! 104 41.27%
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:37 PM   #326
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Killian is the Manderin. Plain and simple. The Manderin was his mask...which is in fact a part of who he is. He couldn't operate how he wanted to without that mask.

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Old 05-10-2013, 02:28 PM   #327
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Supa "T" View Post
How am I a troll? because i don't agree with you?

Cause i want the Mandarin in Avengers 2?

You are the troll! If you don't like don't respomd to the comment!

Butthurt.

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Old 05-10-2013, 02:44 PM   #328
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
^ Again, you are unequivocally mistaken/wrong. Aldrich Killian didn't fabricate The Mandarin's existence; he IS The Mandarin. All he fabricated was the persona of a public 'frontman' - Trevor Slattery - to whom he gave The Mandarin name. Killian features all of the characteristics of comics Mandarin:
1) He's a superhumanly skilled martial artist (Killian is a superhumanly skilled martial artist)
2) He's a mad scientist (Killian is a mad scientist)
3) He schemes to foment and profit from World War III (Killian schemes to foment and profit from a perpetual war on terror)

The only thing that Killian didn't have that comics Mandarin did is the alien rings.
^This x 1,000,000!

IN fact the line: "Soon I'll have the world's most powerful man in one hand, and the world's most feared terrorist in the other," should have been the clue.

Extremis was substituted for the Alien Rings.

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Old 05-10-2013, 03:13 PM   #329
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by TomPiltoff View Post
OK, there is a 'Mandarin character' in IM3 in the sense that, yes, there is a mastermind plotting these terrorist attacks and attempting to bring Iron Man down. But in this story The Mandarin is a fictional creation of Aldrich Killian.
Except Killian explicitly states, "I AM THE MANDARIN!".

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Old 05-10-2013, 03:26 PM   #330
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

"you wanted the Mandarin? Well here I am! I'm the Mandarin!"

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Old 05-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #331
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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However does anyone think the nearly 70 year Ben Kingsley would have made for a good final battle against RDJ?
What if the Mandarin had been injected with Extremis? He would've been pretty damn powerful then. The final fight would;ve gone down the same, except with Kingsley in the place of Pearce.

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Old 05-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #332
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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What if the Mandarin had been injected with Extremis? He would've been pretty damn powerful then. The final fight would;ve gone down the same, except with Kingsley in the place of Pearce.
he's referring to actual visual look...like how fake Dooku looked in Episodes II and III

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Old 05-10-2013, 04:30 PM   #333
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Plus, Kingsley is actually pretty tiny.

I think it would've looked kinda ridiculous to see RDJ throw down with a 70 year old and struggle. Extremis or not.

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Old 05-10-2013, 05:12 PM   #334
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Him being tiny is imo a bigger problem. Most effects these days are good enough that you can demand that the viewer immerses himself enough for it to work. I've always been an advocate for that the filmmakers and the viewer have equal responsibility for a great experience.

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Old 05-10-2013, 05:21 PM   #335
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Him being tiny is imo a bigger problem. Most effects these days are good enough that you can demand that the viewer immerses himself enough for it to work. I've always been an advocate for that the filmmakers and the viewer have equal responsibility for a great experience.
I don't about everyone else, but if you're asking for my money, you don't demand anything from me. Especially with the price of a movie ticket today.

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Old 05-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #336
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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"you wanted the Mandarin? Well here I am! I'm the Mandarin!"
The Mandarin may just be the greatest comic book film villain ever. His plan was so good it broke the forth wall. People who watched the film and witnessed his treachery with they're own eyes STILL can't believe he's the guy.

I can't think of a single other comic book villain that's ever accomplished that in a film. Not one.

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Old 05-10-2013, 05:38 PM   #337
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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The Mandarin may just be the greatest comic book film villain ever. His plan was so good it broke the forth wall. People who watched the film and witnessed his treachery with their own eyes STILL can't believe he's the guy.

I can't think of a single other comic book villain that's ever accomplished that in a film. Not one.
That is not correct. The fourth wall remains untarnished. Especially by Guy Pearce's character. Aldrich Killian is not aware he is being watched by an audience in a theater. You'll have to use a different terminology to make your point.

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Old 05-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #338
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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I don't about everyone else, but if you're asking for my money, you don't demand anything from me. Especially with the price of a movie ticket today.
It's not the filmmaker that makes that demand, it's the viewer that should put it on himself since it's a significant part of having a good experience. The fact that it costs money makes it even more relevant to do so in order to get more value out of it. Not doing so just affects ourselves negatively, no one else.

I think there are good and bad viewers, just as good and bad movies.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:00 PM   #339
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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That is not correct. The fourth wall remains untarnished. Especially by Guy Pearce's character. Aldrich Killian is not aware he is being watched by an audience in a theater. You'll have to use a different terminology to make your point.
The fourth wall came tumbling down the minute Trevor emerged from the bathroom.

Case in point. You can't call him the Mandarin. In spite of ALL of the evidence, you can't acknowledge the truth.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:05 PM   #340
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Any villain who has to announce who he is is a failure.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:05 PM   #341
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
It's not the filmmaker that makes that demand, it's the viewer that should put it on himself since it's a significant part of having a good experience. The fact that it costs money makes it even more relevant to do so in order to get more value out of it. Not doing so just affects ourselves negatively, no one else.

I think there are good and bad viewers, just as good and bad movies.
If If you're saying viewers should try to keep an open mind for their own sake I agree. But for me, the onus of good storytelling remains on the party producing the entertainment.

My open mind won't excuse a poor story.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:10 PM   #342
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Any villain who has to announce who he is is a failure.
So its ok for a hero to announce their identity but not for a villain?

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:11 PM   #343
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
^ Again, you are unequivocally mistaken/wrong. Aldrich Killian didn't fabricate The Mandarin's existence; he IS The Mandarin. All he fabricated was the persona of a public 'frontman' - Trevor Slattery - to whom he gave The Mandarin name. Killian features all of the characteristics of comics Mandarin:
1) He's a superhumanly skilled martial artist (Killian is a superhumanly skilled martial artist)
2) He's a mad scientist (Killian is a mad scientist)
3) He schemes to foment and profit from World War III (Killian schemes to foment and profit from a perpetual war on terror)

The only thing that Killian didn't have that comics Mandarin did is the alien rings.
Exactly correct.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:11 PM   #344
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by signifyingmnky View Post
The fourth wall came tumbling down the minute Trevor emerged from the bathroom.

Case in point. You can't call him the Mandarin. In spite of ALL of the evidence, you can't acknowledge the truth.
No, I'm serious. All twists, personal taste and expectations from the film aside, you're mistaken. The fourth wall in this instance is the movie theater screen. To any characters in the fictional work, that screen is a wall that doesn't allow them to see us watching.

Not Trevor, not Killian, not even Tony Stark (as we find out after the credits) speak, look at or otherwise acknowledge the existence of an audience. An example of breaking the fourth wall is Ferris Bueller speaking to the audience directly.

So you can say many have been bamboozled, many don't understand what happened in the film, many do not want to believe what happened... But it has nothing to do with the proverbial "fourth wall" of theater.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:44 PM   #345
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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No, I'm serious. All twists, personal taste and expectations from the film aside, you're mistaken. The fourth wall in this instance is the movie theater screen. To any characters in the fictional work, that screen is a wall that doesn't allow them to see us watching.

Not Trevor, not Killian, not even Tony Stark (as we find out after the credits) speak, look at or otherwise acknowledge the existence of an audience. An example of breaking the fourth wall is Ferris Bueller speaking to the audience directly.

So you can say many have been bamboozled, many don't understand what happened in the film, many do not want to believe what happened... But it has nothing to do with the proverbial "fourth wall" of theater.
Are you arguing for the sake of arguing here?

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:58 PM   #346
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

The meta rebound occurs because of the audience bringing their knowledge of Ben Kingsley with them and watching his performance: they are watching a British actor play the face of terrorism who is actually a British actor playing the face of terrorism.

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:04 PM   #347
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Are you arguing for the sake of arguing here?
No, I'm arguing because you are wrong. If you're point is based on a false premise wouldn't you want to correct that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathancrane View Post
The meta rebound occurs because of the audience bringing their knowledge of Ben Kingsley with them and watching his performance: they are watching a British actor play the face of terrorism who is actually a British actor playing the face of terrorism.
Jonathan makes a far more intriguing point about cinematic parabole. Good point Jonathan! And it still has nothing to do with the fourth wall.

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:07 PM   #348
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by signifyingmnky View Post
The fourth wall came tumbling down the minute Trevor emerged from the bathroom.

Case in point. You can't call him the Mandarin. In spite of ALL of the evidence, you can't acknowledge the truth.
....
....
....You don't know what the fourth wall is, do you?

The fourth wall is the imaginary "wall" that exists between the audience and the film, or play they are watching. When a character directly addresses the audience, and acknowledges that they are in a film or play that is breaking the fourth wall.

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:32 PM   #349
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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....
....
....You don't know what the fourth wall is, do you?

The fourth wall is the imaginary "wall" that exists between the audience and the film, or play they are watching. When a character directly addresses the audience, and acknowledges that they are in a film or play that is breaking the fourth wall.
Iron Man 2 - Rhodes (to Tony): It's me. I'm here. Deal with it. Let's move on.

Iron Man 3 - The Mandarin (to Tony): No more false faces...You wanted the Mandarin! You got him! I'm the Mandarin!

I'd say the folks behind the Iron Man films understand the fourth wall pretty well.


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Old 05-10-2013, 09:28 PM   #350
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Iron Man 2 - Rhodes (to Tony): It's me. I'm here. Deal with it. Let's move on.

Iron Man 3 - The Mandarin (to Tony): No more false faces...You wanted the Mandarin! You got him! I'm the Mandarin!

I'd said the folks behind the Iron Man films understand the fourth wall pretty well.
Dude. You still aren't getting it. Google fourth wall if you have to. I'm sure the filmmakers understand the fourth wall just fine. As the closest they've come to breaking it is Tony narrating IM3. Which (after the credits) we find out isn't the case, because he isn't talking to us, he's talking to Bruce Banner.

Neither of those examples have anything to do with the fourth wall because (as you said) they are both talking "to Tony." As opposed to addressing the audience.

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