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Old 05-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #226
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Fergie's last home game and Rooney's not even in the squad. There's also talk thay he had a bust up with Jones yesterday, came to blows and needed stitches.

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Old 05-12-2013, 10:55 AM   #227
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I thought Mourinho was your first choice though? He doesn't speak English 100%.
Mourinho's English is spot on, he's live in the country, is Premiership proven & is one of the few managers in world football that I'd describe as a born winner.

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No budget? He paid 16M for Fellaini alone, this notion that he made the team by turning dust and bones into flesh & blood players is a myth. He didn't have the budget the top 6 have but he was working with a decent set of players that didn't come for free, no more so than the teams around him. Keeping Everton where he did was solid and consistent work for sure, but hardly the stuff that makes him close to ideal for replacing SAF, in fact I'm certain he was chosen for different reason than his time at Everton.
A myth? The transfer history is available for all to see, in the course of 10 years, David Moyes only had spent approx 18m in the red that he didn't have to rebalance by selling other players. That is a nothing amount, you compare that the the 4/5 teams that were above him it's a miracle that he managed to keep Everton within 3-10 points of the likes of Liverpool/Spurs who have been heavy spenders during his time in charge of Everton.. actually looking like they'll finish above Liverpool despite Liverpool spending about 70m in the past 2 years.

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Actually that's not true, when Klopp came in Dortmund had only just staved off bankruptcy and were in a bad way. He concentrated on youth due to lack of funds and built a title winning team combing mostly homegrown talent mixed in with bargain signings. Last summer they bought their most expensive player ever in Reus, they paid 16M, essentially the money they got from us for Kagawa.
What's not true? That Dortmund are expected to be challenging?

Regardless of Dortmund's financial situation, they arguably the 2nd or 3rd biggest team in Germany & will always be expected to be in & around the top, being a bigger team they'll naturally be able to replenish their ranks with the talent that comes through their youth setup.

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He's won back to back league titles against a team built on 200M at least, the Dortmund team combined barely cost as much as Bayern paid for Javi Martinez alone. What he has done is the equivalent of Moyes winning our league with Everton. By the end of this season he could well be sitting on a haul of 4 trophies in 3 seasons and 6 years at the club with a team built on a small budget and youth development, that's not a flash in the pan, that's a born winner.
It isn't even remotely close to similar, Dortmund are one of the biggest teams in Germany, winning the German title with them is like winning the Premiership with Arsenal or Liverpool.

His Mainz team was built with a small budget & youth, promoted without ever having winning the Bundesliga 2 & relegated after 2 seasons, he then quit when he couldn't get them back up at the first attempt.. but as I said, it's unfair to take that into account the same way as taking Moyes's trophy haul at Everton is unfair to take into account because realistically, they aren't going to be winning anything bar a spot of luck in a cup run.

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The thing is I wonder if Mourinho would still be Chelsea manager now if not for Abramovich, as everywhere Mou has gone since has pretty much felt like a stop-gap until he could get back to the country he loves managing in. He hasn't achieved his CL in Spain goal but he's got the La Liga title to add to his two PL's and Serie A titles, I think if he'd come back to England now to manage United, he'd see it as his settling down for the long haul job. However all we can do is hope Moyes is not a disaster.
In theory when he does come back to England, the only job I could see him leaving his next club for is the Portugal job. I don't think money motivates him so I can't see him going to Russia or China. That being said the Portugal job could be available in 2, 4 & 6 years.. & given his track record it I wouldn't doubt that he'd jump to it in 6 years or less..

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Old 05-12-2013, 10:59 AM   #228
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Fantastic result yesterday for Wigan, I'm surprised I was expecting City to blow them away 3 or 4-0. Happy for Wigan, I hope they stay up as well, one of the few teams in the lower end of the table I enjoy watching at times.

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Old 05-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #229
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

I'm glad we managed to hold out for those 3 points. And glad Utd won today on Fergie's last home game.

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Old 05-12-2013, 12:12 PM   #230
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Fergie's last home game and Rooney's not even in the squad. There's also talk thay he had a bust up with Jones yesterday, came to blows and needed stitches.
Wow, he is well and truly gone!

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Maybe 'Arry could?...
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God.... Old Trafford looks amazing... Love the fact they've given the Swansea fans white 'capital one cup winners' flags to go along with our Champions flags...

Getting a little teary eyed here...
That's great!

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Old 05-12-2013, 01:15 PM   #231
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Disappointing to hear from Sir Alex that Rooney has asked for a transfer, I'd actually like to hear he reasoning this time for asking for one, supposedly he asked for one the last time because he felt the club weren't going to or doing all in their power to sign top signings, we then make 3 or 4 top signings 2 of which directly conflict with his best positions & he now he supposedly wants out. It's very disappointing to say the least, he's a fantastic player when he's on tune.. but this is the 2nd time he has asked for a transfer & 1 bad apple can spoil the bunch & drag others down.

This is going to be a rough summer..

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Old 05-12-2013, 01:17 PM   #232
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:23 PM   #233
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Disappointing to hear from Sir Alex that Rooney has asked for a transfer, I'd actually like to hear he reasoning this time for asking for one, supposedly he asked for one the last time because he felt the club weren't going to or doing all in their power to sign top signings, we then make 3 or 4 top signings 2 of which directly conflict with his best positions & he now he supposedly wants out. It's very disappointing to say the least, he's a fantastic player when he's on tune.. but this is the 2nd time he has asked for a transfer & 1 bad apple can spoil the bunch & drag others down.

This is going to be a rough summer..
I think 2nd time they ask you help them on their way out. As much as I don't want him to leave it's too much. I really thought he'd go down as an all time great for both Utd & England

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Old 05-12-2013, 01:34 PM   #234
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread



Thank You SAF.

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Old 05-12-2013, 01:41 PM   #235
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Disappointing to hear from Sir Alex that Rooney has asked for a transfer, I'd actually like to hear he reasoning this time for asking for one, supposedly he asked for one the last time because he felt the club weren't going to or doing all in their power to sign top signings, we then make 3 or 4 top signings 2 of which directly conflict with his best positions & he now he supposedly wants out. It's very disappointing to say the least, he's a fantastic player when he's on tune.. but this is the 2nd time he has asked for a transfer & 1 bad apple can spoil the bunch & drag others down.

This is going to be a rough summer..

I bet he's reason is he don't want to play under Moyes.

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Old 05-12-2013, 02:43 PM   #236
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

I think Rooney has wanted out for a while. It would be strange to want to leave one of the top title winning sides in the country purely because he isn't willing to try and play under Moyes

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Old 05-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #237
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I think 2nd time they ask you help them on their way out. As much as I don't want him to leave it's too much. I really thought he'd go down as an all time great for both Utd & England
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I bet he's reason is he don't want to play under Moyes.
That wouldn't be good enough given that according to the reports, although unconfirmed by Ferguson during interview, he asked for transfer & fresh start over 2 weeks ago.

Things could change, he could go away in the summer for his holidays & whatnot & reconsider, but personally given his contract situation & the fact that he has had stop start form this season, albeit no doubt due to injuries & lack of playing in position, it might be best to see what PSG will offer us for him.

Particularly now that Ferguson is leaving & Moyes is coming in, I feel it's vital we hold onto our best players. There are going to be some changes in backroom staff & how things are done at the club over the summer & the last thing we need is one of our best players leaving.

Hopefully Moyes recognises that the midfield is a key issue that needs improved & injects some money into it.

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Old 05-12-2013, 02:55 PM   #238
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That wouldn't be good enough given that according to the reports, although unconfirmed by Ferguson during interview, he asked for transfer & fresh start over 2 weeks ago.

Things could change, he could go away in the summer for his holidays & whatnot & reconsider, but personally given his contract situation & the fact that he has had stop start form this season, albeit no doubt due to injuries & lack of playing in position, it might be best to see what PSG will offer us for him.

Particularly now that Ferguson is leaving & Moyes is coming in, I feel it's vital we hold onto our best players. There are going to be some changes in backroom staff & how things are done at the club over the summer & the last thing we need is one of our best players leaving.

Hopefully Moyes recognises that the midfield is a key issue that needs improved & injects some money into it.
Yep agreed. Who else might leave. Scholes is retiring, Giggs, Ferdinand?

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Old 05-12-2013, 04:15 PM   #239
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@B, I'll be back to argue Klopp vs Moyes later.

Great day today, I really enjoyed the game, the atmosphere was brilliant and I'm glad Rio made sure Fergie's last game in charge at Old Trafford was a win!

The speech Fergie gave after the match was class, he didn't take time to indulge his own memories and success, it was still United first and shout outs to Scholes and get well wishes to Fletcher. I also have to give him credit for urging the fans to get behind Moyes, I'm not sold myself but that should give Moyes a bit of breathing room.

You will be missed SAF.


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Old 05-12-2013, 04:16 PM   #240
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Disappointing to hear from Sir Alex that Rooney has asked for a transfer, I'd actually like to hear he reasoning this time for asking for one, supposedly he asked for one the last time because he felt the club weren't going to or doing all in their power to sign top signings, we then make 3 or 4 top signings 2 of which directly conflict with his best positions & he now he supposedly wants out. It's very disappointing to say the least, he's a fantastic player when he's on tune.. but this is the 2nd time he has asked for a transfer & 1 bad apple can spoil the bunch & drag others down.

This is going to be a rough summer..
We should sell him ASAP in my view, this is two transfer requests in 3 years, is this gonna happen every time he wants something? Time to move on.

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Old 05-12-2013, 04:25 PM   #241
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Personally, I think Rooney would fit in better with us on the pitch, though I think he'd be more at home with the Chelsea boys.

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Old 05-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #242
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We should sell him ASAP in my view, this is two transfer requests in 3 years, is this gonna happen every time he wants something? Time to move on.
I'm actually starting to share this viewpoint. Sell him while we can still get a decent amount of money for him and invest in central midfield and a versatile attacking mid, such as James Rodriguez.

I also feel United should keep Rio, seeing as the club will definitely need experienced heads in the times that are to come. Not to mention he's had something of a rennaissance this season and has been one of our most consistent performers.

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Old 05-12-2013, 10:23 PM   #243
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Mourinho's English is spot on, he's live in the country, is Premiership proven & is one of the few managers in world football that I'd describe as a born winner.
I don't think his English is spot on at all, it's the same as most who speak it as a language but not a first language, but I don't think it's relevant, it wouldn't take Klopp long to be fluent and he already is good enough to have managed us with his English vocabulary.

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A myth? The transfer history is available for all to see, in the course of 10 years, David Moyes only had spent approx 18m in the red that he didn't have to rebalance by selling other players. That is a nothing amount, you compare that the the 4/5 teams that were above him it's a miracle that he managed to keep Everton within 3-10 points of the likes of Liverpool/Spurs who have been heavy spenders during his time in charge of Everton.. actually looking like they'll finish above Liverpool despite Liverpool spending about 70m in the past 2 years.
When I say myth I am talking about the idea floated around that he created his Everton sides out of thin air, he spent like every other manager at the clubs that hover around the 14-6 spots.

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What's not true? That Dortmund are expected to be challenging?

Regardless of Dortmund's financial situation, they arguably the 2nd or 3rd biggest team in Germany & will always be expected to be in & around the top, being a bigger team they'll naturally be able to replenish their ranks with the talent that comes through their youth setup.
They were practically bankrupt, they sold off their top players, you don't just magically come back from that. In Germany there are teams like Shalke, Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen also in the race, Dortmund were behind them all and starting from scratch with scraps, so no, they weren't expected to compete, the idea was to simply keep in the top division as Dortmund hovered near the bottom post -2005 financial collapse. What Klopp has done is quite extraordinary.

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It isn't even remotely close to similar, Dortmund are one of the biggest teams in Germany, winning the German title with them is like winning the Premiership with Arsenal or Liverpool.
No it is exactly the same, Dortmund were virtually broke, I bet if you add their team value up in the CL final and compare the cost of the current Everton team there wont be a lot of difference.

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His Mainz team was built with a small budget & youth, promoted without ever having winning the Bundesliga 2 & relegated after 2 seasons, he then quit when he couldn't get them back up at the first attempt.. but as I said, it's unfair to take that into account the same way as taking Moyes's trophy haul at Everton is unfair to take into account because realistically, they aren't going to be winning anything bar a spot of luck in a cup run.
I would compare Moyes at Preston to Klopp at Mainz. As I said, there is very little if any difference in what Klopp's Dortmund side was built for and what Moyes Everton side was built for.

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In theory when he does come back to England, the only job I could see him leaving his next club for is the Portugal job. I don't think money motivates him so I can't see him going to Russia or China. That being said the Portugal job could be available in 2, 4 & 6 years.. & given his track record it I wouldn't doubt that he'd jump to it in 6 years or less..
He's always said he'd like to manage Portugal to finish his career but he's only 50, I could see him doing a decade or more in England and then in his 60's having his final hurrah as the Portugal manager, as International managers are often older. Of course this scenario is less likely if he goes to Chelsea as I can't see them keeping a manager in place that long.

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Personally, I think Rooney would fit in better with us on the pitch, though I think he'd be more at home with the Chelsea boys.
Him as the the #9 with Cazorla, Walcott and The Ox as the creative trio behind him could be a very strong boost for you IMO.

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I'm actually starting to share this viewpoint. Sell him while we can still get a decent amount of money for him and invest in central midfield and a versatile attacking mid, such as James Rodriguez.
Yep that would be the route I'd go as well as this is getting to the point where it's like a kid throwing his toys out of the pram, I don't disagree with him being upset that he gets shunted around a lot but maybe if he'd been as great as in the past in the #10 role it wouldn't happen, of course if we had a better midfield her might not be chained to defensive duties as much I guess.

Rodriguez looks good but he's another option!

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I also feel United should keep Rio, seeing as the club will definitely need experienced heads in the times that are to come. Not to mention he's had something of a rennaissance this season and has been one of our most consistent performers.
Agreed, he's been superb this season and him, Evra, Vidic and Giggs will be essential in the dressing room to try and ease the Moyes transition.

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:17 AM   #244
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I don't think his English is spot on at all, it's the same as most who speak it as a language but not a first language, but I don't think it's relevant, it wouldn't take Klopp long to be fluent and he already is good enough to have managed us with his English vocabulary.
I feel because Mourinho has lived in the country & worked with Englishmen in the past his English is pretty much as good as it's ever going to be, it's defiantly on a slightly higher level than Klopp's English... however as I said previously, I wasn't speaking in regards to Klopp's English in particular when I made the comment.

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When I say myth I am talking about the idea floated around that he created his Everton sides out of thin air, he spent like every other manager at the clubs that hover around the 14-6 spots.
Completely correct & if the table was based on those spots in particular Moyes would have come top of that table in 9 or 10 of his seasons at Everton.

When he took charge of Everton they were relegation contenders & with very little money has turned them into a top 6 team.. which in the modern Premiership, in my opinion, deserves credit/respect. Keeping teams consistent over time isn't easy.

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They were practically bankrupt, they sold off their top players, you don't just magically come back from that. In Germany there are teams like Shalke, Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen also in the race, Dortmund were behind them all and starting from scratch with scraps, so no, they weren't expected to compete, the idea was to simply keep in the top division as Dortmund hovered near the bottom post -2005 financial collapse. What Klopp has done is quite extraordinary.
People always expect the biggest teams to be competing for trophies. Always. If Manchester United nearly went bankrupt had to sell off all their stars, Old Trafford.. everything.. even then, they'd still be expected to be competing, even if arguably not always realistic simply because of the size of their club & the fact that they've enough fans & youth to replenish their ranks with some of the best youth talent available.

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No it is exactly the same, Dortmund were virtually broke, I bet if you add their team value up in the CL final and compare the cost of the current Everton team there wont be a lot of difference.

I would compare Moyes at Preston to Klopp at Mainz. As I said, there is very little if any difference in what Klopp's Dortmund side was built for and what Moyes Everton side was built for.
Even if that was 100% accurate, the fact still is in Germany, Dortmund the 2nd or 3rd biggest club in the league & in England, Everton are maybe anywhere from 6th-10th depending on who you are asking. Dortmund naturally have access to better talent within the country & surrounding countries because of their name & stature, and no doubt superior youth & scouting setup to Everton.

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He's always said he'd like to manage Portugal to finish his career but he's only 50, I could see him doing a decade or more in England and then in his 60's having his final hurrah as the Portugal manager, as International managers are often older. Of course this scenario is less likely if he goes to Chelsea as I can't see them keeping a manager in place that long.
The thing with Jose Mourinho is though.. you just never know what he will do next.

Just to say, in regards to this Klopp vs Moyes thing we seem to have developed I want to be crystal clear, I am not saying for 1 second saying that Moyes is a better manager than Klopp or Klopp than Moyes. My main point I am trying to get across is that I have concerns with Moyes appointment just as I would have concerns with Klopp, Mourinho.. or pretty much any other manager we had considered. However, I feel Moyes deserves as much as a chance as anyone else would get before we start cursing him out because of his work with Everton under such restrictive budgets & whatnot.

Whoever we had appointed, there is always the chance of failure, look at Chelsea. They've had a who's who of world class managers come into that team & ironically it took a former player & one that was sacked by West Brom that actually won them the Champions League.

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:17 AM   #245
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We should sell him ASAP in my view, this is two transfer requests in 3 years, is this gonna happen every time he wants something? Time to move on.
On one hand I 100% completely agree with you & furthermore I consider another transfer request after the last one a massive, massive slap in the face of Sir Alex & Manchester United..

Yet on the other hand I'm thinking, we shouldn't be selling our top players.

I'll wait & see what happens I'm sure the papers will talk about it to no end all week, but in all honesty I don't see his future being sorted until Moyes comes in on July 1st.. however due to the competitive nature of the transfer market, if the club believes they will let him go, they need to start the ball rolling now on finding us another 20-30 goals a season & 5-15 assists per season.. Welbeck sure as hell won't be providing those sort of statistics & neither will Hernandez.

If Rooney goes we will be exactly were we where 2 years ago when we were always relying on 1 person to bail us out of holes.

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:55 AM   #246
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

lol just imagine Rooney at Arsenal. Wouldnt surprise me

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Old 05-13-2013, 03:50 AM   #247
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

surprised none of you have been talking about the incredible end to yesterdays playoff semi

always forget how to embed YT on here, great video of the final 30 seconds from very close to where Im sitting http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...KyjC5K-c#t=38s
can also just about make me out running oer and launching myself on Forestieri

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Old 05-13-2013, 07:36 AM   #248
Jack O Lantern
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

It was bitter sweet watching Sir Alex Ferguson lift the trophy yesterday. It's nice to see him go out on a high but sad to see him go at all.

I seem to be in the minority when it comes to Moyes, I am delighted by his appointment. I maybe would have preferred Klopp but I don't think that was ever on the cards. I think Moyes has proven himself a terrific manager, if you look at clubs with similar resources, they are fighting relegation rather than being dark horses for the champions league.

I'm not concerned that he has not won anything, in other countries managers are given big jobs without ever winning anything. The last three Barcelona managers hadn't won anything as managers before they were appointed and two did not even have top level experience. Carlo Ancelotti hadn't won anything when he got the Juventus job and he still hadn't won anything when he got the Milan job. If Moyes was Spanish and doing a similar job in Spain he would have gotten the Real Madrid job a long time ago.

I actually like Moyes style of play, I think United are too patient at times nowadays and should aim to get the ball forward quicker. I don't want United to become as direct as Everton but a bit more directness would be welcomed.

I'm not even angry at Rooney this time. In 2010, he went about it like an *******, criticizing the club's ambitions but this time he has been frozen out and wants to move on. He spoke to the manager quietly about it, which is the right way to do things. Let him go.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:47 PM   #249
Van Petrol
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Rider View Post
Him as the the #9 with Cazorla, Walcott and The Ox as the creative trio behind him could be a very strong boost for you IMO.
Wouldn't you say though that Rooney is more at home in the #10 role behind the striker, rather than up top as the #9?

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:48 PM   #250
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Hearing whispers that United have enquired about Fabregas.

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