The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 18

[Dr Lee]

Mancini sacked.....

[the_ultimate_evil]

so long bobby mancs

soon you will just be another name in the man city list of ex managers

[Iceman]

Mancini as well, next season all change in Manchester. Guess it was expected partly anyway. Shame, thought he might do a job eventually...although there are better managers out there.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Hearing whispers that United have enquired about Fabregas.

You want him back? Is he still popular after leaving? He could probably be good for either you or Utd still.

[B]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Hearing whispers that United have enquired about Fabregas.

I've heard rumblings all season of Fabregas being sold & Alexis Sanchez, both still are high quality players. In my view Fabregas won't be a fully fledged member of the Barcelona XI until Xavi either retires or starts to show his age more regularly. Given the role Xavi plays, he is quite capable of playing until he is 35+ provided he is surrounded by mobile & to a degree physical players to give him more protection & options when he just isn't capable of doing what he currently does so well.

That being said, I can't see Fabregas being sold by Barcelona, neither can I see him being willing to join Manchester United.. I'd be more inclined to think a move back to Arsenal would be more on the cards given that supposedly Arsenal have a £80m kitty for this summer. If Arsenal re-signed Fabregas their midfield would be the best in the Premiership in my opinion. They don't need to strengthen midfield urgently I don't feel, but Fabregas would only make it better. Arsenal would do well to sign another CB & someone that can score 30 goals a season for them.

Alexis Sanchez could well leave though, he's been hot & cold for Barca this year & my guess is Barcelona will be looking to make a statement in transfer market this summer in light of their embarrassing spanking by Bayern Munich in the Champions League.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by Iceman

You want him back? Is he still popular after leaving? He could probably be good for either you or Utd still.

He's one of the very few players that would be welcomed back with open arms. The fans still love him completely. Having said that, I wouldn't say no to him returning.

Originally Posted by B

I've heard rumblings all season of Fabregas being sold & Alexis Sanchez, both still are high quality players. In my view Fabregas won't be a fully fledged member of the Barcelona XI until Xavi either retires or starts to show his age more regularly. Given the role Xavi plays, he is quite capable of playing until he is 35+ provided he is surrounded by mobile & to a degree physical players to give him more protection & options when he just isn't capable of doing what he currently does so well.

That being said, I can't see Fabregas being sold by Barcelona, neither can I see him being willing to join Manchester United.. I'd be more inclined to think a move back to Arsenal would be more on the cards given that supposedly Arsenal have a £80m kitty for this summer. If Arsenal re-signed Fabregas their midfield would be the best in the Premiership in my opinion. They don't need to strengthen midfield urgently I don't feel, but Fabregas would only make it better. Arsenal would do well to sign another CB & someone that can score 30 goals a season for them.

Alexis Sanchez could well leave though, he's been hot & cold for Barca this year & my guess is Barcelona will be looking to make a statement in transfer market this summer in light of their embarrassing spanking by Bayern Munich in the Champions League.

Well the talk seems to be that Jovetic is our top target, but also that Wenger wants to bring in another top striker with Higuain and Rooney the names being rumoured. I don't really think it would pay Barca to sell Fabregas, especially so soon seeing as we have a 50% sell on clause in his contract.

[Iceman]

Mancini getting 28m compensation?!

Surely not?

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by B

When he took charge of Everton they were relegation contenders & with very little money has turned them into a top 6 team.. which in the modern Premiership, in my opinion, deserves credit/respect. Keeping teams consistent over time isn't easy.

I've never said he didn't do a good job in relation to where the bar was set for him, but there is zero correlation with that and being a winner IMO.

People always expect the biggest teams to be competing for trophies. Always. If Manchester United nearly went bankrupt had to sell off all their stars, Old Trafford.. everything.. even then, they'd still be expected to be competing, even if arguably not always realistic simply because of the size of their club & the fact that they've enough fans & youth to replenish their ranks with some of the best youth talent available.

That isn't accurate, if you are virtually bankrupt even football fans will be smart enough to recalibrate their expectaions. Ask Kit, Leeds are a big club, there were in the PL and CL title mix, then they crumbled financially and have spent years in the lower divisions. The fact Klopp not only prevented that but built a double league winning team from the same budget as Moyes makes him a top tier manager.

Even if that was 100% accurate, the fact still is in Germany, Dortmund the 2nd or 3rd biggest club in the league & in England, Everton are maybe anywhere from 6th-10th depending on who you are asking. Dortmund naturally have access to better talent within the country & surrounding countries because of their name & stature, and no doubt superior youth & scouting setup to Everton.

You make it sound like Everton are a Wigan level club, they were the big side from Meseyside at one point and are not some second rate club. Dortmund are in a mix of about 5 sides that trail Bayern, but that is irrelevant when you have only a minor budget, you can't compete on salaries and transfer prices, yet Klopp overcame that and won back to back leagues.

The thing with Jose Mourinho is though.. you just never know what he will do next.

Just to say, in regards to this Klopp vs Moyes thing we seem to have developed I want to be crystal clear, I am not saying for 1 second saying that Moyes is a better manager than Klopp or Klopp than Moyes. My main point I am trying to get across is that I have concerns with Moyes appointment just as I would have concerns with Klopp, Mourinho.. or pretty much any other manager we had considered. However, I feel Moyes deserves as much as a chance as anyone else would get before we start cursing him out because of his work with Everton under such restrictive budgets & whatnot.

Whoever we had appointed, there is always the chance of failure, look at Chelsea. They've had a who's who of world class managers come into that team & ironically it took a former player & one that was sacked by West Brom that actually won them the Champions League.

Understood, to be clear myself, I am not going to be on Moyes back once things get going, I will see how he does in this summers transfer market and then see how does next season, I think top 4 and getting to the KO stages of the CL will be a good first season for Moyes as I'm not expecting titles out of the gate.

My only point was I think we have passed over better options as I do think Klopp is a better manager than Moyes, I would add Mourinho, Pelegrini and Ancelotti to that lsit, but Moyes is who it is and I will get behind things like any other fan should regardless of my lack of optimism.

Originally Posted by B

On one hand I 100% completely agree with you & furthermore I consider another transfer request after the last one a massive, massive slap in the face of Sir Alex & Manchester United..

Yet on the other hand I'm thinking, we shouldn't be selling our top players.

I'll wait & see what happens I'm sure the papers will talk about it to no end all week, but in all honesty I don't see his future being sorted until Moyes comes in on July 1st.. however due to the competitive nature of the transfer market, if the club believes they will let him go, they need to start the ball rolling now on finding us another 20-30 goals a season & 5-15 assists per season.. Welbeck sure as hell won't be providing those sort of statistics & neither will Hernandez.

If Rooney goes we will be exactly were we where 2 years ago when we were always relying on 1 person to bail us out of holes.

I get where you are coming from but I think this has been in the pipeline for a long while now, my guess is that we will try to get Moyes a big signing this summer regardless and it will be a player who adds goals, it may well be one that plays from the wing and wont affect Rooney, but we will have things planned out I am sure.

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Wouldn't you say though that Rooney is more at home in the #10 role behind the striker, rather than up top as the #9?

I think it's probably his best position but as a #9 he's scored 34 goals twice for us, once while Berbatov was just sort of lingering and then last season when Welbeck was his partner, so at the point of your attack I think he'd score you more than Giroud or Podolski.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

He's one of the very few players that would be welcomed back with open arms. The fans still love him completely. Having said that, I wouldn't say no to him returning.

Yeah, I wasn't sure. That's good. Hope you get him in that case.

[Hunter Rider]

Neymar the money-making machine! Brazil star beats Bolt, Messi and McIlroy in list of world's most marketable athletes

[Hunter Rider]

Today's title parade was amazing, great final piece of the send-off puzzle for SAF.

[Hunter Rider]

Double draw: City believe Isco and Cavani will join Pellegrini in Manchester

Arsenal close in on Villa youngster Crowley... aka the new Wilshere

On trial at the champions: United ponder swoop for Uruguayan Varela

Dortmund line up Villa striker Benteke as Lewandowski's replacement

City consider Robben as ex-Chelsea winger heads for Bayern Munich exit

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

I think it's probably his best position but as a #9 he's scored 34 goals twice for us, once while Berbatov was just sort of lingering and then last season when Welbeck was his partner, so at the point of your attack I think he'd score you more than Giroud or Podolski.

Yeah, I wouldn't say no to him in regards to what he can do on the pitch, it's the off the pitch stuff that I'm concerned about that could have an effect on the rest of the team.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yeah, I wasn't sure. That's good. Hope you get him in that case.

Personally, I don't think he'll leave unless he forced out. He obviously wants to make it work there.

[Van Petrol]

Apparently, Borussia Dortmund are close to agreeing deals for both Kevin De Bruyne and Christian Erkisen of Ajax. If they pull them off, those are two excellent additions to help fill the Gotze void.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Yeah, I wouldn't say no to him in regards to what he can do on the pitch, it's the off the pitch stuff that I'm concerned about that could have an effect on the rest of the team.



Personally, I don't think he'll leave unless he forced out. He obviously wants to make it work there.

Well he hasn't done amazingly there so far (despite having a lot of years ahead to prove himself). I'm sure Barca will be planning quite a few changes after the way they went out in Europe.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Well he hasn't done amazingly there so far (despite having a lot of years ahead to prove himself). I'm sure Barca will be planning quite a few changes after the way they went out in Europe.

They're just not using him to his best potential, imo. He's become more accustomed to playing almost as a supporting striker (as evidenced by they and playing him in the false #9 role), and Barca just don't seem to be able to implement him efficiently into their set-up.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Yeah, I wouldn't say no to him in regards to what he can do on the pitch, it's the off the pitch stuff that I'm concerned about that could have an effect on the rest of the team.

From what I know since Kai was born he's not had any issues and is well liked enough within the team. I genuinely think this new transfer request is down to him being disillusioned with his jack of all trades role.

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Apparently, Borussia Dortmund are close to agreeing deals for both Kevin De Bruyne and Christian Erkisen of Ajax. If they pull them off, those are two excellent additions to help fill the Gotze void.

Yep and possibly Benteke to replace Lewandowski.

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

They're just not using him to his best potential, imo. He's become more accustomed to playing almost as a supporting striker (as evidenced by they and playing him in the false #9 role), and Barca just don't seem to be able to implement him efficiently into their set-up.

Agreed, every time I see him play it's either on the left of the front 3 or as a false 9, he's a CM, that is his natural role and they wont see the best of him until he is played there.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

From what I know since Kai was born he's not had any issues and is well liked enough within the team. I genuinely think this new transfer request is down to him being disillusioned with his jack of all trades role.

Ah, I see. Still, I just see no reason as to why he would want to move to us. Chelsea would be another story though.

Yep and possibly Benteke to replace Lewandowski.

Yeah, they've also been linked to Dzeko too.

Agreed, every time I see him play it's either on the left of the front 3 or as a false 9, he's a CM, that is his natural role and they wont see the best of him until he is played there.

Agreed. I meant to say they and Spain seem to implement and deploy him in the same manner (darn typo's ), rather than play him in his strongest position.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

They're just not using him to his best potential, imo. He's become more accustomed to playing almost as a supporting striker (as evidenced by they and playing him in the false #9 role), and Barca just don't seem to be able to implement him efficiently into their set-up.

I'm not criticising him myself just second guessing how the bods at Barca are looking at it. Even if you're right it depends on whether they are making allowances for this factor or judging him on his play regardless. And maybe it means he's not the right player for them if they can't fit him in to play in his best position.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

From what I know since Kai was born he's not had any issues and is well liked enough within the team. I genuinely think this new transfer request is down to him being disillusioned with his jack of all trades role.

I don't really know much about the situation with Rooney & Moyes but if you're saying the reason for the transfer request is disillusionment with his role and not to do with Moyes, then surely a new manager is the best time to hang around when the playing system and players for that setup can change significantly?

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Apparently, Borussia Dortmund are close to agreeing deals for both Kevin De Bruyne and Christian Erkisen of Ajax. If they pull them off, those are two excellent additions to help fill the Gotze void.

Kevin De Bruyne? Would that be on loan from Chelsea or a permanent transfer?

[aNarcHy2day]

At times I get the impression Chelsea sign players like de Bruyne just to be a future makeweight for the next flavour of the season!

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by B

supposedly Arsenal have a £80m kitty for this summer.

Wenger is probably going to spend it all on kids. He almost never spends money on big name established players. He usually takes a punt on a promising young player.

[bapi]

Dortmund also wants Jackson Martinez and that boy from Brazil. De Bruyne would be permanent. In the end with extra CL money etc. they would finish only -20M or so. Would be great business.

And Mancini's compensation should be 5-7.5M.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Ah, I see. Still, I just see no reason as to why he would want to move to us. Chelsea would be another story though.

If you qualify for the CL he might well like the idea of playing for Wenger as the focal point of your attack, although I agree that Chelsea seems the more likely fit with him.

Yeah, they've also been linked to Dzeko too.

Do you think he fits with Dortmun's style? I just can't see him working in their high energy, high pressing system.

Agreed. I meant to say they and Spain seem to implement and deploy him in the same manner (darn typo's ), rather than play him in his strongest position.

Gotcha! Fabregas is a walking advertisement for the whole grass isn't always greener on the other side cliche.

Originally Posted by Iceman

I don't really know much about the situation with Rooney & Moyes but if you're saying the reason for the transfer request is disillusionment with his role and not to do with Moyes, then surely a new manager is the best time to hang around when the playing system and players for that setup can change significantly?

Well I'm not sure how he feels about Moyes nowadays or if he wants to play for him, but the transfer request came from Rooney before he even new SAF was retiring. So if he feels the system under Moyes will change he may want to stay. I think a top class midfielder would improve Rooney and Nani as they'd have less defensive responsibility.