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Old 05-15-2013, 02:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

I think someone needs to audit the IRS.

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/05/1...ion-americans/

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Old 05-15-2013, 04:53 PM   #27
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

And guess what?

THEY GET EVEN MORE POWER UNDER OBAMACARE.....wooooooohooooooo.

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Old 05-15-2013, 06:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

Funny pic of Philadelphia Eagles OL Evan Mathis giving his thoughts of the IRS.


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Old 05-15-2013, 07:10 PM   #29
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

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Originally Posted by Hotwire View Post
Ummm.... Then where did the millions go that Rupert Murdock paid them for bringing the NFL Sunday Ticket to DirecTV?
That money was split amongst the franchise owners, who then had to report that as income to the IRS.

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Old 05-15-2013, 07:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

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Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
I'll probably be in the minority on this one, but I look at it this way:

Conservatives want the CIA, FBI, and so forth to focus on people with certain ethnic backgrounds because they feel those people have a higher propensity towards terror or crime.

Well, guess who has a higher propensity towards anti-tax rhetoric and tax dodging?

Profiling is only bad if you're the one getting profiled, I guess.

EDIT: This Bloomberg article is probably the most factual on the subject:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ax-groups.html
The thing is that a lot of these groups applied for a tax exemption status that they legally weren't supposed to. The were political campaign organizations, not nonprofit social welfare organizations and most of the money they raised went to political campaigns.

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Old 05-15-2013, 08:04 PM   #31
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

Obama: Acting IRS commissioner has resigned over scandal
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,4905721.story

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Old 05-15-2013, 08:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

That's just stupid....he is stepping down in June, which is when his time was up anyway.

If he thinks that this guy can resign, and all is ok....lmao, he is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.

Dang...

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Old 05-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #33
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I don't know why I watch FOX news at times(I guess for comedy purposes) but Mike Huckabee had somebody from "True the Vote"(which is basically a Republican group that claims they bi-partisan that main goal is to go an harass people in districts that vote for Democrats) on who was investigated by the IRS.

Huckabee was to stupid to miss the irony that if "True the Vote" is as she claims bi-partisan, then that by default means that the IRS then went after a bi-partisan group which ruins the narrative that they are going after conservative groups. It's a basic case of trying to have your cake and eat it to.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:17 PM   #34
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

Oh lord I don't venture into the time slot of Huckabee on Fox...

I like The Judge and Geraldo on Saturdays and Sundays, but Huckabee's show is horrible...its pretty much geriatric central.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #35
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

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Originally Posted by SV Fan View Post
I don't know why I watch FOX news at times(I guess for comedy purposes) but Mike Huckabee had somebody from "True the Vote"(which is basically a Republican group that claims they bi-partisan that main goal is to go an harass people in districts that vote for Democrats) on who was investigated by the IRS.

Huckabee was to stupid to miss the irony that if "True the Vote" is as she claims bi-partisan, then that by default means that the IRS then went after a bi-partisan group which ruins the narrative that they are going after conservative groups. It's a basic case of trying to have your cake and eat it to.

Not necessarily, I would assume that within their description the word Conservative or Constitution or something set off the "ding ding" to have them checked. They could still be bi-partisan, but simply had something in their description that put them on the list. I'm sure that happened more than once. They were targeting certain words, seems plausible that some of those groups were in fact bi-partisan groups. You do have conservative democrats...

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:32 PM   #36
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Not necessarily, I would assume that within their description the word Conservative or Constitution or something set off the "ding ding" to have them checked. They could still be bi-partisan, but simply had something in their description that put them on the list. I'm sure that happened more than once. They were targeting certain words, seems plausible that some of those groups were in fact bi-partisan groups. You do have conservative democrats...
As somebody who followed alot of Voter ID/Suppression stuff during the last election, "True the Vote" is a name that rings a bell many times over. I think you could make a strong case that the IRS targeted a conservative group with them, but let's call a spade a spade in this case(ie they are nothing more then a conservative group dressed up in bi-partisan clothing)

As I said if one truly believes "True The Vote" is bi-partisan(which I won't lie I don't) then that sort of ruins the case that the IRS specifically went out and targeted Republican/Tea Party organizations only(although I do believe "True The Vote" is heavily Tea Party influenced although they will never admit that because it will ruin their MO that they truly care about "protecting the vote for everybody").

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I like The Judge and Geraldo on Saturdays and Sundays, but Huckabee's show is horrible...its pretty much geriatric central.
I have to admit it's a guilty pleasure of mine. If I am home and nothing on at 8PM on Saturday, I usually will catch 15-20 minutes for a good chuckle. I think I am a masochist and just want to get myself riled up. lol


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Old 05-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #37
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

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As somebody who followed alot of Voter ID/Suppression stuff during the last election, "True the Vote" is a name that rings a bell many times over. I think you could make a strong case that the IRS targeted a conservative group with them, but let's call a spade a spade in this case(ie they are nothing more then a conservative group dressed up in bi-partisan clothing)

As I said if one truly believes "True The Vote" is bi-partisan(which I won't lie I don't) then that sort of ruins the case that the IRS specifically went out and targeted Republican/Tea Party organizations only.
Well, I think that it has been sufficiently proven, that groups with Tea Party, Conservative, Constitution, and other groups that have a conservative tilt were targeted. The inspector general stated it, the head of IRS stated it, so for this one group to say they are bi-partisan doesn't change that a bit...to say it does, or even makes someone question the validity of this IMO, is pretty blind.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:43 PM   #38
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Well, I think that it has been sufficiently proven, that groups with Tea Party, Conservative, Constitution, and other groups that have a conservative tilt were targeted. The inspector general stated it, the head of IRS stated it, so for this one group to say they are bi-partisan doesn't change that a bit...to say it does, or even makes someone question the validity of this IMO, is pretty blind.
Hey I just want True the Vote to admit they in the conservatives pocket. I fully admit they are a Conservative based organization(and like all the 501(c)4s with the word Tea Party in it, they were most likely targeted on that basis), but they don't and once they admit what they are they can complain all they want about the IRS going after them but till then they don't have much to stand on saying they were targeted by the IRS for being a conservative group because if we are to believe them they aren't.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

So what? What will that accomplish, or have any bearing on the IRS thing? Absolutely nothing, except to try and pull the microscope off of the IRS and their complete screw up. They ****ed up, royally....pointing fingers at this group or that group isn't going to change that a bit. They screwed up, and then to put the person that was in charge during all of this as the top person in the IRS Obamacare stuff....holy ****...that is just dumb.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:49 PM   #40
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So what? What will that accomplish, or have any bearing on the IRS thing?
In terms of the IRS thing, nothing. In terms of "True the Vote", I can't stand them personally and would love to see them called out for what they are instead of given any credibility masquerading as something they aren't.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:53 PM   #41
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In terms of the IRS thing, nothing. In terms of "True the Vote", I can't stand them personally and would love to see them called out for what they are instead of given any credibility masquerading as something they aren't.
Well hell, then add them to the 100s of others, liiiiiiiiiike.... Media Matters claiming they are just a site that wants to make media more fair. yeah....throw them in with the other 100's that say one thing, and do another. This group certainly isn't the only one that does that.

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:00 PM   #42
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Well hell, then add them to the 100s of others, liiiiiiiiiike.... Media Matters claiming they are just a site that wants to make media more fair. yeah....throw them in with the other 100's that say one thing, and do another. This group certainly isn't the only one that does that.
Media Matters is probably not the best example. They clearly state they are a "progressive"(ie a term associated with liberals/lefties) group that targets conservative media/misinformation. No where do I see them claim they are bi-partisan.

But I guess sure you can find some liberal organizations that masquerade as bipartisan, but what gets me with True the Vote is they generally seem to target Democrat districts in terms of going after "voter fraud"(much like the IRS went after Conservative Groups). You know at least Conservative groups say like the Family Research Council, I know where they stand and they don't try to hide their true purpose(as much as I disagree with them).

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:04 PM   #43
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Media Matters is probably not the best example. They clearly state they are a "progressive"(ie a term associated with liberals/lefties) group that targets conservative media/misinformation. No where do I see them claim they are bi-partisan.

But I guess sure you can find some liberal organizations that masquerade as bipartisan, but what gets me with True the Vote is they generally seem to target Democrat districts in terms of going after "voter fraud"(much like the IRS went after Conservative Groups). You know at least Conservative groups say like the Family Research Council, I know where they stand.
In the beginning they did...now, not so much...why? Because people figured it out. Moved on.

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:07 PM   #44
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In the beginning they did...now, not so much...why? Because people figured it out. Moved on.
Here is what I got doing a google search. First Result

Media Matters for America

mediamatters.org/‎
A non-profit progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the ...

That statement is expanded upon in it's "About US" page. I think that makes it fairly clear they have an agenda targeted towards one point of view and in no way are they bi-partisan. They are sort of in the same category as Family Research Council, that at least they don't hide what they are about to create some fallacy they have no political agenda.


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Old 05-19-2013, 12:10 AM   #45
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

And? Again that matters to the discussion of this irs scandal? I don't get it.

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Old 05-19-2013, 01:06 AM   #46
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And? Again that matters to the discussion of this irs scandal? I don't get it.
Well True the Vote a self proclaimed non-partisan organization is making a stink about being part of the IRS targeting conservative groups(even though by their definition of their group they aren't one). I just find the irony funny(and sad that nobody calls them out about the irony) so sue me. It basically seems like the True the Vote head is doing the conservative talk show rounds


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Old 05-19-2013, 09:24 AM   #47
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Well True the Vote a self proclaimed non-partisan organization is making a stink about being part of the IRS targeting conservative groups(even though by their definition of their group they aren't one). I just find the irony funny(and sad that nobody calls them out about the irony) so sue me. It basically seems like the True the Vote head is doing the conservative talk show rounds
They were one of the groups on this list....so I guess they have a right to *****. So? Doesn't lessen the ridiculous thing that the IRS did in the least...and it doesn't lessen the stupidity of the administration to put the person that was in charge of doing this, that knew about it last year, and her idea of fixing it was to add more words that would bring in groups like the Tea Party....so lets NOT FIRE HER, but give her a promotion. That's insane...THAT is the story.

But hey, keep on harping on this one group, go right ahead...

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Old 05-19-2013, 05:49 PM   #48
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Just out of curiosity does anybody have a list of all 298 groups they targeted? All I can find on the net is them saying 96 of the 298 were what one could consider Tea Party Groups(which surprises me since I thought it was a case the bulk of the 501(C)4s were conservative groups)

Beyond that I think looking at some of the groups allowed through, I have no clue how they weren't denied "social welfare" status since it seems like they actively pushed candidates. It also seems like a case the Big Boys didn't get targeted on both sides while they only seemed to target the little guys


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Old 05-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #49
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Just out of curiosity does anybody have a list of all 298 groups they targeted? All I can find on the net is them saying 96 of the 298 were what one could consider Tea Party Groups(which surprises me since I thought it was a case the bulk of the 501(C)4s were conservative groups)

Beyond that I think looking at some of the groups allowed through, I have no clue how they weren't denied "social welfare" status since it seems like they actively pushed candidates. It also seems like a case the Big Boys didn't get targeted on both sides while they only seemed to target the little guys
Yes, the 98, actually was the number given in the hearings I think...were just those with Tea Party in their name, then there were others added (the woman that is now heading the Obamacare stuff) added Constitution, Patriot, any that had within their name things like "taking back America", as well as a few other names. That number has not been given to the press or said in the hearings yet. They are also now investigating other religious groups that were possibly targeted as well.

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Old 05-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #50
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Default Re: The IRS: In the news....

When I first spoke about a tax on wealth (liquid assets, non-productive non-earning assets like precious metals and unused land) earlier in this thread, as it turns out it does have a historical precedence and theoretical viability in economics - negative interest rates. Real interest rates have often been negative, but negative nominal interest rates are a much more rare phenomenon. As a matter of fact, I only know of one instance and that was during the European sovereign debt crisis when Sweden's central bank imposed a rate of -0.25% on excess bank reserves.

We all know about the Federal Reserve's current monetary policy. When central bank rates hit the zero-bound limits and interest rates can't go any further down, thereby rendering the standard tool of monetary policy completely ineffective, with quantitative easing the central bank expands its balance sheet by basically 'pumping' money into the economy (mostly by buying back short-term treasuries) hoping that the dose of fresh liquidity would be just what the doctor ordered to boost aggregate demand.

Japan was the first to try this when its own recession-hit economy was in a deflationary spiral during the 1990s. It didn't work out so well as the domestic banks would simply hold more excess reserves with the central bank or send that cheap money out to graze in its neighbours' backyards in Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea and Indonesia (sowing the seeds for the East-Asian financial crisis) for much higher returns rather than lending it domestically. The consensus (just barely) on the first experiment with QE was that it was a failure.

So why is the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England and the European Central Bank trying to fix the economy with a broken tool? Well, it turns out that unlike Japan which put the new money into the hands of its domestic banks, the post-financial crisis version of QE would be central banks buying treasuries (and in some cases, even corporate bonds) back from non-bank institutions like pension funds and insurance companies who will then pump this money back into the economy. Did it work? The central banks have certainly eased the credit markets and stopped the contraction but the economy is now stagnant.

So what went wrong this time? Apparently when you have free mobility of capital and more lucrative opportunities for investment overseas, then that is where the money will go - meaning junior is starving and the babysitter is spending your kid's lunch money to buy gifts for her nieces. Compounding this problem is the fact that whatever money is left in the country is either invested or used as leverage in the financial markets...but that is a good thing, right? Not quite. In the 1960s, every dollar of credit resulted in 60 cents worth of new GDP. Today, it's less than 15 cents (I'll discuss the reasons elsewhere in a more relevant thread later). In a nutshell, the gains from the financial sector have become increasingly detached from the real economy. That is why even though the Fed's rates are at an all-time low, banks and creditors are nowhere near as eager to lend to SMEs and/or lower your interest rates.

Compounding this problem is the fact that the Federal Reserve is hell-bent on containing inflation, which is good news for keeping unemployment under control but bad news for the ballooning public debt. Many economists say it's a losing bet because when the Fed unloads all its assets (which it has to sooner or later, because that is its exit strategy), you're going to get massive spikes in inflation and interest rates anyway that is going to exacerbate the debt as all of the U.S (including the government) will now have to pay back more in both principal and interest. So the right wingers are at least partially right in their assessment about the problem. Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz have been saying for months now that the only solution is to increase inflation expectations, which will be good for both public debt and the economy but is political suicide as it risks more unemployment.

Quite a dilemma then. Get the economy going at the expense of more jobs or let it ride out the recession (which could last a decade or more for all we know, as it did in Japan)? Well, apparently there is a way to avoid this tradeoff and that is with negative interest rates. It's not some heterodixical babble like Austrian economics either, as Harvard's own economics chair Gregory Mankiw (among many) is a proponent, who said that according to current estimates, the interest rates are supposed to be around -5 to -7%.

Now this is where it gets real interesting - the idea of negative interest rates was first proposed in the late 19th century by Silvio Gesell, an anarchist economist who would've been an absolute darling of the tea party and the libertarians if he was alive today. Even Keynes approved of the idea (but ultimately rejected it, like many still do today, because of the administrative difficulties in implementing it). With governments running out of options, more and more are starting to warm up to the idea of negative interest rates, and that maybe we should give it an honest chance now that we've already tried almost everything else.

Consider this example: Apple is getting grilled in a Senate hearing for tax evasion, but as of now it is sitting on cash reserves exceeding $170 billion. At -5%, that alone would net the government nearly $9 billion in tax revenue and this is just one company we're talking about here. According to the Federal Reserve, as of the third quarter of 2012 nonfinancial corporations in the United States held $1.7 trillion of liquid assets. The real money pot is the mountains of hoarded cash these corporate leviathans are openly sitting on and amazingly, all everyone else seems to see are the slim pickings from their dwindling annual earnings.

All of a sudden that tax on holding money doesn't seem like such a bad idea now, does it?

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