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Old 06-02-2013, 11:26 AM   #101
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Default Re: What Were Your DISLIKES?

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My assumption was they only knew Khan's blood worked for sure and thought Khan's blood was the best bet. Though yeah, even that's a shot in the dark if you think about it. Also if you think about it, any of the other 72 subjects had just as likely a chance of success.
I remember that when they discovered the crew member, Bones said it would take awhile to get him out of cryo-freeze, since the technology was so old he needed time to figure it out. He knew what Khan's blood did for sure, so he couldn't let him escape.

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Old 06-02-2013, 01:11 PM   #102
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I remember that when they discovered the crew member, Bones said it would take awhile to get him out of cryo-freeze, since the technology was so old he needed time to figure it out. He knew what Khan's blood did for sure, so he couldn't let him escape.
Didn't they also place Kirk into suspended animation to keep him from decomposing? Or am I misremembering that part? If he was frozen as well, would it matter how long it took them to thaw out another frozen pop?

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Old 06-02-2013, 05:07 PM   #103
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Didn't they also place Kirk into suspended animation to keep him from decomposing? Or am I misremembering that part? If he was frozen as well, would it matter how long it took them to thaw out another frozen pop?
They took one of Khan's crew out of a cryotube and put Kirk inside, keeping the crew member in an induced coma. But McCoy only knew what Khan's blood did with 100% certainty, since the others had been kept frozen for centuries and Khan's could have possibly been altered in time since he'd been awakened. It's wasn't worth losing Khan by taking chances with one of the others.

It also sounds like the blood wasn't some sort of magic healing formula. When Kirk wakes up, McCoy explains that was blood transfusion that knocked him out for two weeks. It's possible it would have a worse affect on others (we never did see how the little girl given a transfusion was doing afterwards).

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Old 06-02-2013, 10:20 PM   #104
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Default Re: What Were Your DISLIKES?

It's a step down from Trek '09, which still holds up.
The writing was very obviously Damon Lindelof at points.
Bones got sidelined when he should've been in on the action.
Cumberbatch being Khan and not John Harrison.
Spock Prime giving them the solution.
Khan not getting away.
Lastly the whole Carol Marcus in her underwear controversy, have the people complaining seen any 80's movie?

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Old 06-02-2013, 10:41 PM   #105
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They took one of Khan's crew out of a cryotube and put Kirk inside, keeping the crew member in an induced coma. But McCoy only knew what Khan's blood did with 100% certainty, since the others had been kept frozen for centuries and Khan's could have possibly been altered in time since he'd been awakened. It's wasn't worth losing Khan by taking chances with one of the others.

It also sounds like the blood wasn't some sort of magic healing formula. When Kirk wakes up, McCoy explains that was blood transfusion that knocked him out for two weeks. It's possible it would have a worse affect on others (we never did see how the little girl given a transfusion was doing afterwards).

Yeah... still feels like a lot of reaching. I'll let it go, though. It really is just a movie.

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It's a step down from Trek '09, which still holds up.
The writing was very obviously Damon Lindelof at points.
Bones got sidelined when he should've been in on the action.
Cumberbatch being Khan and not John Harrison.
Spock Prime giving them the solution.
Khan not getting away.
Lastly the whole Carol Marcus in her underwear controversy, have the people complaining seen any 80's movie?
I think it was the execution. Trek has always had an undercurrent of sexuality, that's not the problem. It did seem to be gratuitous in the sense that we didn't need to see her in her underwear (and this is coming from someone who wouldn't mind Alice Eve undressed in every movie). The camera could've been on Kirk with just Carol's blurry bare shoulder/bra strap visible in the foreground to clue us in that he's watching her undress, leaving it more to our imagination. That would've actually been sexier - the tease of it - and served the same purpose.

That, and (to me) a lot of other plot-holes/leaps in logic left a bad taste, since Trek isn't supposed to be like an 80's movies. This isn't the Porky's franchise. It's (in theory) the "thinking man's sci-fi", which this didn't feel like (not that the 09 version did, either, it was just a better-executed popcorn film than this one).

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Old 06-02-2013, 10:43 PM   #106
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnttwx0P6I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8TSBCVd37U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwKryuazNMk

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Old 06-03-2013, 07:21 AM   #107
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Spock Prime giving them the solution.
To the best of my knowledge he didn't give them any solution? All Spock asked him was "Did you encounter a guy named Khan", and Prime answered "Yeah, he's really dangerous"

He didn't actually say anything about how to beat him, or anything

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Old 06-03-2013, 07:24 AM   #108
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It cut away as he told Spock how they defeated OG Khan.

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Old 06-03-2013, 07:42 AM   #109
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Dislikes:

* The name "Khan", for one, sounds pretty ethnic, so it just didn't work for me that it would go with a pasty-faced white British guy.

* The writers borrowed TOO heavily from TWoK, I thought. I slight nod to it here or there would have sufficed fine, but too many elements from that movie (whether an identical scene with a slight twist, or some outrightly copied dialogue) were incorporated here.

* If the writers were going to borrow from TWoK, they missed an opportunity to include one of the best aspects of that film, namely the space battles. The only real battle here was ALL one-sided.

* The Spock Prime cameo.....should have been a bit longer and more informative.

* Gaping plot hole: with 72 "supermen" already frozen and conveniently nearby, why would only Khan's blood be necessary?

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Old 06-03-2013, 11:57 AM   #110
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I loved this movie!! Unless Superman does better, this will be my favorite for the summer. But one thing that I found kinda weird was how young spock contacted old spock..... INFRONT OF EVERYONE! I do not have a problem with old spock giving info, but I find it weird that now it seems common knowledge to the federation (its not like spock told the crew not to speak of this conversation that will take place) that there is a man from the future that if they need help to go get him.

I think it would of been better if young spock contacted old spock from his private room, but not on the bridge.

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Old 06-03-2013, 01:28 PM   #111
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Default Re: What Were Your DISLIKES?

New Spock contacting Old Spock was corny. I wish that was the corniest bit, but the "death"' scene and Vader yell unfortunately claimed that honor. I guess I understand that New Spock would want a 'character reference" to see if Khan could be trusted, but I ultimately don't think the scene was necessary and only served to take me out of the movie. Furthermore, what does it matter how the crew defeated Khan in TWOK when that situation was very much different? And what's the point of basically rebooting Trek when they're just going to drag decades-old continuity into the mix? It lessens everything because you're constantly being reminded that there was an older and better movie that this new stuff is based on.

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Old 06-03-2013, 03:31 PM   #112
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One thing I thought was pretty dumb was Khan hiding the Botany Bay crew in torpedoes. If he had so much time and freedom that he was able to do this, then why couldn't he just wake them all up and help them escape? I understand it takes a while for someone in cryosleep to thaw out, but I can't imagine it would take any more time that taking a damned torpedo apart and hiding a cryochamber inside of it.

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Old 06-04-2013, 12:54 AM   #113
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Default Re: What Were Your DISLIKES?

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One thing I thought was pretty dumb was Khan hiding the Botany Bay crew in torpedoes. If he had so much time and freedom that he was able to do this, then why couldn't he just wake them all up and help them escape? I understand it takes a while for someone in cryosleep to thaw out, but I can't imagine it would take any more time that taking a damned torpedo apart and hiding a cryochamber inside of it.
You know, that never crossed my mind one time. Man, for someone with as much intellect as Khan, that sure does make him seem dumb.

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Old 06-04-2013, 10:16 AM   #114
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Dislikes:

* The name "Khan", for one, sounds pretty ethnic, so it just didn't work for me that it would go with a pasty-faced white British guy.

* The writers borrowed TOO heavily from TWoK, I thought. I slight nod to it here or there would have sufficed fine, but too many elements from that movie (whether an identical scene with a slight twist, or some outrightly copied dialogue) were incorporated here.

* If the writers were going to borrow from TWoK, they missed an opportunity to include one of the best aspects of that film, namely the space battles. The only real battle here was ALL one-sided.

* The Spock Prime cameo.....should have been a bit longer and more informative.

* Gaping plot hole: with 72 "supermen" already frozen and conveniently nearby, why would only Khan's blood be necessary?
bingo

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Old 06-04-2013, 10:18 AM   #115
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I loved this movie!! Unless Superman does better, this will be my favorite for the summer. But one thing that I found kinda weird was how young spock contacted old spock..... INFRONT OF EVERYONE! I do not have a problem with old spock giving info, but I find it weird that now it seems common knowledge to the federation (its not like spock told the crew not to speak of this conversation that will take place) that there is a man from the future that if they need help to go get him.

I think it would of been better if young spock contacted old spock from his private room, but not on the bridge.
I agree

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Old 06-09-2013, 07:31 AM   #116
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1) Kahn being so unlike Kahn from the old tv show and film. He was just a generic bad guy called Kahn. What a waste.

2) in your face references to TWOK. It was far too self aware and took me right out of the film.

3) Old Spock handing out advice. I could have gone without another reminder of the bizarre rebooting from the last film. Old Spock popping up whenever they have a serious blue just doesn't sit right with me. I want to see the crew solve their own problems.

4) Old Spock not really helping anyway. What did his advice really do?

5) Bones just a 2 dimensional baffoon.

6) Scotty's terrible accent.

7) Peter Weller being a homicidal maniac with no real motive.

8) Klingons being great but completely wasted.

9) Idiotic plot. Kahn hiding his people in torpedoes? Starfleet sending the torpedoes to be fired when they could have just killed all of Kahns people if they were that concerned.

10) Weepy Spock. Why is Spock so emotional in these films? It would have been more poignant for Spock to still have control of his emotions but to know he was grieving but it was so heavy handed. Spock doesn't cry.

11) Kirk having a threesome. I mean, c'mon. It's just cheap.

12) Kirks disregard for Starfleet directives. Makes him come across as a impulsive teenager. The Kirk from the original series was a respected leader who thought things through. Here he exists just to be contrary to everyone else (and right). If it was an actual reboot I wouldn't care but this is supposed to be the same universe.


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Old 06-09-2013, 07:32 AM   #117
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New Spock contacting Old Spock was corny. I wish that was the corniest bit, but the "death"' scene and Vader yell unfortunately claimed that honor. I guess I understand that New Spock would want a 'character reference" to see if Khan could be trusted, but I ultimately don't think the scene was necessary and only served to take me out of the movie. Furthermore, what does it matter how the crew defeated Khan in TWOK when that situation was very much different? And what's the point of basically rebooting Trek when they're just going to drag decades-old continuity into the mix? It lessens everything because you're constantly being reminded that there was an older and better movie that this new stuff is based on.
Well said.

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Old 06-09-2013, 09:40 AM   #118
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One thing I thought was pretty dumb was Khan hiding the Botany Bay crew in torpedoes. If he had so much time and freedom that he was able to do this, then why couldn't he just wake them all up and help them escape? I understand it takes a while for someone in cryosleep to thaw out, but I can't imagine it would take any more time that taking a damned torpedo apart and hiding a cryochamber inside of it.
This.

I think it would have made the third act seem, well, less like WOK with a bunch of super humans running around San Francisco with Khan being apprehended but the rest of his crew getting away leaving room for a sequel that involves him coming back.

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Old 06-11-2013, 05:44 PM   #119
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Another thing that always bugged me about these Abrams films,is the crew is way too familiar with each other while on duty.I mean,I think Scotty called Kirk "Jim" once in the whole original series plus 7 movies.And you have Uhura almost outright giving orders at some point.It just seems a bit off to me.They are not the disciplined crew that I've grown accustomed too.

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Old 07-18-2013, 04:10 PM   #120
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I loved it, no faults

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:07 AM   #121
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1. Kirk character arc.

The first film opens with a wholly reckless, arrogant and downright destructive Kirk who - throughout the trials and tribulations he's goes through in the film - matures into a more responsible and intelligent person.

Then Into Darkness opens with a wholly reckless, arrogant and downright destructive Kirk who - throughout the trials and tribulations he goes through in the film - matures into a more responsible and intelligent person.

Essentially, he goes through the exact same character progression in both films, and it very much struck me as though Kirk ultimately learned nothing from the first film, rendering it pretty useless outside of turning him and Spock into bros.


2. Lack of moral message.

The thing that has always defined the sci-fi genre, and Star Trek in particular for me, is how they're stories were always imbibed with some ultimate philosophical or moral statement that is wholly applicable to our world. That's what makes sci-fi so intriguing; it's using the fantastic to explain the ordinary and commonplace.

Despite it's 60s cheesiness, the OS was very much packed full of these messages. Every episode had its own little observation of our world built into it and, for me, it really enriched my viewing experience of the show.

So far, through two movies now, Abrams and company have shown no real interest in highlighting any of those moral messages in their films; instead both films are so jammed packed with character interaction and progression, there really isn't much time for anything else except plot advancement and explosions. Ultimately that leaves the film feeling pretty one note; the writers seem to be infatuated with their concept of these characters' personalities, and they just focus on having them clash egos over and over rather than explore much anything else.

3. Similarity to the first film.

Yeah, as good as Into Darkness was, I couldn't help but feel most of the movie was just a redo of what we already saw in the first film. The writers reused so many tropes; from Kirk/Spock's dichotomy, to Scotty's comedic relief giving way to ultimate cleverness, to the methods and mania of its main villain, both movies are extremely similar to each other.

Ultimately, it almost leaves me feeling as though I'd enjoy Into Darkness a whole lot more if the first film didn't exist. But as it stands, Into Darkness doesn't do nearly enough to built onto the success and plotlines of the first movie, and actually boldly go (slight pun, but applicable) into new new directions of storytelling.

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Old 09-14-2013, 01:32 AM   #122
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My biggest complaint is the feel of the re imagined reality of this star trek. Gone is the feeling of some far flung society of a human race who had moved past many of the faults and vices of our time..and abrams world plays out as somewhat vulgar, petty, callous, violent, hedonistic and nowhere near as intelligent.

I can see why this was done...however i feel like we are left with a dummed down version of what we had.

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:55 PM   #123
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- Kirk taking the scroll. Why?

- Kirk getting demoted to get his position back. Such an overplayed Star Trek cliché.

- Pike returning just to get killed off soon after. I would've preferred if they didn't use him again.

- The writers relying on the original timeline instead of being original with the alternate one. Seriously, I would've enjoyed the movie better if Cumberbatch had stayed as Harrison. Revealing him to be Khan and re-enacting the radiation death scene was a cheap ploy to please fanboys and sell movie tickets. Cumberbatch was doing great just being a superhuman terrorist and all that. He should've stayed that way and he could've left his own mark as a villain in the series instead of paling in comparison to Ricardo Montalban's portrayal. What made Khan so great to begin with was how personal the feud was between him and Kirk for being left for dead on a remote planet. In this movie, you didn't get that because well...it never happened! Which made re-using Khan pointless.

- One phaser shot from Scott takes down Khan, but he no sells getting phaser shot a dozen times by Uhura later one? Seriously?

- Magic blood. Come on!


Quote:
* The name "Khan", for one, sounds pretty ethnic, so it just didn't work for me that it would go with a pasty-faced white British guy.


VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


JJ Abrams explains it in this video by being a selfish douche. He just didn't care.

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Old 09-22-2013, 09:32 PM   #124
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Another thing that always bugged me about these Abrams films,is the crew is way too familiar with each other while on duty.I mean,I think Scotty called Kirk "Jim" once in the whole original series plus 7 movies.And you have Uhura almost outright giving orders at some point.It just seems a bit off to me.They are not the disciplined crew that I've grown accustomed too.
This annoyed me as well. I can understand the need for Abrams to push emotionalism but he's also creating a very immature crew. It's like they are a bunch of friends at the Academy instead of officers within a command structure.

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Old 09-23-2013, 01:34 AM   #125
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I don't know about that, there were times in TOS that members of the crew did the same. Uhura, atleast from how far I've gotten, hasn't been one of them...but I suspect the reason for that is because of the era. But, there were times in Season One where I thought "man, these guys are really undisciplined" too.

Bones alone always seemed to think he was in command the way he'd make his cases.

If anything, they probably needed Kirk to just shout someone down or something. But, this is an unseasoned Captain Kirk...so that could explain that.
I think Scotty called him Jim more than once, but I'm not sure on that one. But, when he did it was because it was important. In this, it felt appropriate when he did.

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