The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > SHH Community > Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2013, 09:53 PM   #376
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,599
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
That's because the UK, France, and Italy pushed the US to attack Libya. They wanted Gaddafi gone because he was a threat to European economic interests in Africa and it's set a bad precedent for us because now we look like *******s for intervening in Libya yet have done nothing in Syria (especially because we gave a grace period to Assad).
Well, it's only fair. Remember Iraq?

Still, Europeans do seem to be pushing America into this one as well. Well Europeans, and Obama putting his foot in his mouth.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:55 PM   #377
CosmicPinchy
Rock Lobster
 
CosmicPinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: German by birth
Posts: 2,795
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

So Russia is arming the Syrian government and the US is arming the rebels and if the US attacks Syria, whose to say the Russians won't step in?

CosmicPinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:56 PM   #378
CosmicPinchy
Rock Lobster
 
CosmicPinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: German by birth
Posts: 2,795
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Well, it's only fair. Remember Iraq?

Still, Europeans do seem to be pushing America into this one as well. Well Europeans, and Obama putting his foot in his mouth.
England and France, yes. Germany had already said no. Good for them. Europe is way too close to the area. If an attack occurs, they'll be the closest targets. Them and Israel. But if Israel gets hit, then we're all effed.

CosmicPinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:58 PM   #379
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,599
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

I can't see Russia starting World War III over Syria. I mean, they made the same threats with Iraq, and Libya.

Obviously they want Assad to stick around a while longer, since they're selling him equipment so that he can kill his people, but they're not going to go to war with Europe and America over it.

They must know Assad is finished. Even if we stay out of it, his days are numbered. Still, it would be nice for them if they can sell him a few more tanks, and anti-air systems before he croaks.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:00 PM   #380
CosmicPinchy
Rock Lobster
 
CosmicPinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: German by birth
Posts: 2,795
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
I can't see Russia starting World War III over Syria. I mean, they made the same threats with Iraq, and Libya.

Obviously they want Assad to stick around a while longer, since they're selling him equipment so that he can kill his people, but they're not going to go to war with Europe and America over it.

They must know Assad is finished. Even if we stay out of it, his days are numbered. Still, it would be nice for them if they can sell him a few more tanks, and anti-air systems before he croaks.
At least he was the legitimate leader. As legitimate as it gets over there, anyways. The US is as much to blame for arming the rebels. Odd, since the rebels hate Christians so much. But money talks.

CosmicPinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:00 PM   #381
Webfoot Hero
Side-Kick
 
Webfoot Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,838
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
That's because the UK, France, and Italy pushed the US to attack Libya. They wanted Gaddafi gone because he was a threat to European economic interests in Africa and it's set a bad precedent for us because now we look like *******s for intervening in Libya yet have done nothing in Syria (especially because we gave a grace period to Assad).
Libya also showed how woefully inadequate European forces have become in conducting standalone military operations. They have been seriously cutting their militaries to the point that they lack the basic military supplies and capabilities to conduct long-term operations without US support. The US was supposed to only be a supporting role but ended up doing a lot more than expected since our NATO allies were having to borrow weapons/supplies that they've neglected to buy over the years, having basically rode our security coattails for all these years. This is really why I think the idea of us pulling back our forces from foreign bases would finally make them start having to think about shouldering more international security duties.

Webfoot Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:01 PM   #382
hippie_hunter
The King is Back!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
hippie_hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Titanium Groceries
Posts: 51,609
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Well, it's only fair. Remember Iraq?
Nations like France and Germany were only opposed to the Iraq War simply because they were afraid of their economic interests in Iraq getting taken over by the Americans and British (which ended up happening). But it's not like opposition was as universal as those who opposed the war like to think. Even though France and Germany were opposed to the Iraq War, the other major European powers (Britain, Italy, Spain, Poland) were in favor of it. And frankly, if Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy were in power when the Iraq War started, I firmly believe that France and Germany would have hopped on board with the US the way Britain did.

Quote:
Still, Europeans do seem to be pushing America into this one as well. Well Europeans, and Obama putting his foot in his mouth.
France still sees its colonies as its rightful sphere of influence and getting rid of Assad would strengthen their position in their view. It's pretty much the same as Iraq, except this time, the Europeans see the benefits for their interests.

__________________
Titanium Groceries!!!
hippie_hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:03 PM   #383
hippie_hunter
The King is Back!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
hippie_hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Titanium Groceries
Posts: 51,609
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
Libya also showed how woefully inadequate European forces have become in conducting standalone military operations. They have been seriously cutting their militaries to the point that they lack the basic military supplies and capabilities to conduct long-term operations without US support. The US was supposed to only be a supporting role but ended up doing a lot more than expected since our NATO allies were having to borrow weapons/supplies that they've neglected to buy over the years, having basically rode our security coattails for all these years. This is really why I think the idea of us pulling back our forces from foreign bases would finally make them start having to think about shouldering more international security duties.
Actually the French and British are really quite capable in their military abilities. It's just hard to push their militaries for major operations like Libya in the Age of Austerity for Europe while the US really doesn't have such a problem.

__________________
Titanium Groceries!!!
hippie_hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:04 PM   #384
Webfoot Hero
Side-Kick
 
Webfoot Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,838
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Obama could have really earned his Nobel Peace Prize if he had gotten ahead of this whole situation a couple years ago and tried to do some basic diplomacy with Syria. He's actually making Jimmy Carter's foreign policy to look good.

Webfoot Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:06 PM   #385
CosmicPinchy
Rock Lobster
 
CosmicPinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: German by birth
Posts: 2,795
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
Obama could have really earned his Nobel Peace Prize if he had gotten ahead of this whole situation a couple years ago and tried to do some basic diplomacy with Syria. He's actually making Jimmy Carter's foreign policy to look good.
Diplomacy doesn't exist over there. It's not the way people think. My mom's Syrian friend knows what it's like. Diplomacy would have been faked and we would still be in this situation.

CosmicPinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:08 PM   #386
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,599
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
Libya also showed how woefully inadequate European forces have become in conducting standalone military operations. They have been seriously cutting their militaries to the point that they lack the basic military supplies and capabilities to conduct long-term operations without US support. The US was supposed to only be a supporting role but ended up doing a lot more than expected since our NATO allies were having to borrow weapons/supplies that they've neglected to buy over the years, having basically rode our security coattails for all these years. This is really why I think the idea of us pulling back our forces from foreign bases would finally make them start having to think about shouldering more international security duties.
To be fair to the Europeans, there isn't much of a point in building up your militaries when America offers - even insists at times, to take care of everything. America still has bases in Germany, in case Russia might finally invade.

Plus the Germans are sort of still on probation, so the other European nations would probably start complaining if they remilitarized. The German military is rather small, given Germany's size, population and economy. Even in the 80's, people like Thatcher were worried that the Germans might try to conquer Europe.

I think France has sort of gotten a taste for war again though, so you might see some interesting developments there. Britain is still America's sidekick. I don't see that changing.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:09 PM   #387
terry78
Heads up, heathen monkeys
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 60,281
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Obviously some of them want us to interfere so they can be like, "look at America always sticking their nose in!" It's a sucker ploy, and an obvious one at that. TV Tropes refers to it as Schmuck Bait.

__________________
The only thing funnier than watching stupid people argue is watching smart people argue.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:11 PM   #388
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,599
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

I don't think that's the case here.

Europeans do take chemical weapons seriously, especially close to home.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:43 AM   #389
SV Fan
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,145
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

On a different subject, just watching Obama's 50th anniversary MLK speech and he is doing that thing that annoys me with politicians where is is trying to mimic an accent or talking pattern(in this case seems like he is trying to mimic MLK)

In the case of Syria, my take is the US better be a follower rather then a leader(it's much cheaper that way)

SV Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 12:58 AM   #390
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,599
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

That ain't gonna happen. America never plays second fiddle.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 05:50 AM   #391
Charlie The Red
Turkish Gold 100s
 
Charlie The Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Firmament
Posts: 987
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

I think America might be more of a leader on this one if we said, "They have to sort it out themselves."

You have to wonder if that's apathetic, or if it's respecting the independence of a sovereign nation.

__________________

Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Charlie The Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 06:46 AM   #392
The End
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 725
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Even the UN envoys are now saying it.

You know, in addition to the victims.
Where are you getting this information?

The latest I've read on it is that Ban Ki-moon is waiting for the report.

The End is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 06:46 AM   #393
The End
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 725
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
It's called knowing what the hell you're talking about.
The irony here is so thick.

The End is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 06:48 AM   #394
The End
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 725
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicPinchy View Post
Oh, please. Of course I can point to Syria on a map, but nice try in trying to make me look like an idiot.

Again, why is it the US' job to get involved? Why should the US drop bombs on countries involved in civil wars? Do you really think the US would have allowed another country to get involved during their own civil war? Maybe they should sit this one out until everyone can come to an agreement about what to do in regards to this situation. Besides, it's not even clear if it was Assad or the rebels that used the chemical weapons, so why don't you just take a freaken breather and let the people in higher and more informed positions than you make the decisions? You're an armchair critic hiding behind a computer, spouting off suggestions and claiming you know what you're talking about. Just stop, you're embarassing yourself.
This.

Some people are immune to good advice.

The End is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 07:19 AM   #395
The End
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 725
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
There are a few possibilities. It could be the rebels, though that seems unlikely (though you can't rule it out).
Considering that its likely the rebels have used sarin gas before, what's your basis for saying its unlikely? And considering their connections to Al Qaeda, that they could smuggle in weapons from elsewhere, and their backing by the west.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/20...t-assads-regi/

The End is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 08:14 AM   #396
hippie_hunter
The King is Back!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
hippie_hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Titanium Groceries
Posts: 51,609
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
I don't think that's the case here.

Europeans do take chemical weapons seriously, especially close to home.
I don't think that the French and British care about chemical weapons. They care about their economic interests and France cares about gaining more influence in what it sees as is Sphere of Influence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Fan View Post
In the case of Syria, my take is the US better be a follower rather then a leader(it's much cheaper that way)
The US isn't going to be a follower in Syria. Just like with Libya, the US will be doing almost all of the work while the Europeans take more credit than they actually deserve.

__________________
Titanium Groceries!!!
hippie_hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 08:15 AM   #397
hippie_hunter
The King is Back!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
hippie_hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Titanium Groceries
Posts: 51,609
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie The Red View Post
I think America might be more of a leader on this one if we said, "They have to sort it out themselves."

You have to wonder if that's apathetic, or if it's respecting the independence of a sovereign nation.
Well I'm under the opinion that outside intervention often leads to things still being messy as opposed to letting a conflict end naturally between two sides. With those tensions still remaining because a conflict was not properly resolved, it often leads to deadlier conflict in the future.

__________________
Titanium Groceries!!!
hippie_hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 08:25 AM   #398
Charlie The Red
Turkish Gold 100s
 
Charlie The Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Firmament
Posts: 987
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

I've done some reading on the current chain of events going on right now. I'm pretty certain we need to stay back.

At this point, reports (from numerous sources that seem to have different agendas) are saying that both the rebels and the regime are the ones doing the gassing, so you can't really justify supporting one side or the other. How do you save a nation from its own people?

After doing some research over events from the past few weeks, the politics of this are way more frightening. Christians in Syria fear for ethnic cleansing. The anti-aircraft weaponry supplied to Syria by the Russians indicates that tactical missile strikes may not be a strong enough message. Almost makes it sound like we're really fighting Russia. Russia and China are continuing to posture as allies of Assad. Now Iran is threatening to launch missiles on Israel if any kind of attack is made on Syria. The UK is backing out and saying they want to wait for the UN reports. Obama now has to decide whether to attack today as planned without UK support, or continue to wait.

A cluster**** if I've ever seen one. World War I was started over less. With all of these so-called "alliances" it certainly looks like the makings of a similar domino effect.

If the United Nations is still worth anything, they will send in peacekeeping troops so that this doesn't escalate into a war between sovereign nations. For the U.S. or anyone else to take the initiative on this with flimsy evidence and support would be an egregious political error that could have enormous consequences.

__________________

Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit

Last edited by Charlie The Red; 08-29-2013 at 08:28 AM.
Charlie The Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 08:26 AM   #399
hippie_hunter
The King is Back!
SHH! Global Moderator
 
hippie_hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Titanium Groceries
Posts: 51,609
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

UN peacekeepers have a tendency to just do nothing but stand around and watch atrocities happen.

__________________
Titanium Groceries!!!
hippie_hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 08:32 AM   #400
Charlie The Red
Turkish Gold 100s
 
Charlie The Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Firmament
Posts: 987
Default Re: The President Obama Thread - Part 5

Yeah, no kidding =/

Still seems like the only thing remotely close to a solution, other than letting the anarchy in Syria to continue unencumbered. If we get involved in this too soon, it has the makings of a global war.

__________________

Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Charlie The Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.