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Old 05-22-2013, 02:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

This torrent debate is a bit weird. If you're downloading torrents you're intentionally ripping off the manufacturer. If you're lending/borrowing a physical product you're not intentionally doing anything wrong at all.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

Buying and selling things you own is as old as time and has been an American staple since the beginning.

There is literally nothing wrong with selling something you spent cash on.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

Well said, Fading. Well said.:

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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Originally Posted by craigdbfan View Post
CNN, Fox and the rest of those mentioned on there have absolutely no clue about the gaming community or even gaming in general. These are the same people that will not hesitate to label all of these consoles as horrific tools that are poisoning the minds of children.

Clueless.
Here's my guess, and this may be what MS wants, the X1 is shaping up to be a gaming console for non-gamers. The Wii tapped into this with being a part time exercise machine for mom and dad, while entertaining the kids. With the big push towards it's multimedia functionality, non-gamers suddenly find a gaming machine useful. Heck, even the way that Fox News blurb mentioned that it's design is "practical" says something. It looks blocky, like an old school VCR to me. To a non-gamer it may remind them more of a giant cable box, something that says it's an extension of your entertainment center. So it's natural for non gaming news outlets to love this, because they finally get it.


Does that equate long term sales? No clue, we haven't even got to E3 yet. At the moment however, what I view as the backbone of a console, the gamers themselves, seem unsatisfied. If they badmouth the system, and don't early adopt, it can definitely impact sales. On top of which, the console was heavily weighted towards US audiences. Most of what they talked about yesterday won't feature in other countries, or appeal to them. Given that Xbox has declined in Europe, and nearly become extinct in other areas like Japan, they need to do something to win these regions back. Look at this gen, they're console king in the US, and still in third place.

It's still early though. We have a decent ways to go until the holidays, and the likely PS4, and X1 launches. The news might be negative now, but there are still a few big gaming shows (like E3) to go. Plenty can change, so I'm not going to even try to call the X1 dead on arrival. All I can say is that yesterday further cemented my desire to own a PS4, and not own an X1.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
This torrent debate is a bit weird. If you're downloading torrents you're intentionally ripping off the manufacturer.
Not necessarily.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

Let's not forget that both sony and microsoft were always after the casual gamers crowd at that time, But Nintendo took them mostly due to the affordable prices they had . they had two other factors but I keep saying it , I know and it may not register to some that "that was the cause" but that's what sold those people more then anything.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Soapy View Post
Not necessarily.
Well for the purposes of this argument over torrents being bad and borrowing/lending being like downloading torrents and therefore also bad. Not relevant if downloading torrents in some circumstances isn't bad, as if downloading torrents isn't bad then all is fine and even less need for this discussion.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

I don't know where I read it or who said it, but someone made a good point. The Xbox One might have all these extra things, and is more intended as an all-in-one multimedia center, that might be very appealing to the casual gamer, but in the end, it's the hardcore gamer who decides to spend $400-600 on a gaming console, and bring it home. The parents, grandparents, and children will be able to use it and have fun with it, but again, it's the hardcore gamer who brings it home in the first place. I can't see the casual gamer following this announcement, and wanting to spend all that cash on the console, for fancy voice and motion TV controls or to watch sports.

Unless the console barely costs nothing, I really can't see them snatching such a big piece of the casual market.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:45 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

And how are they going to justify paying for online and paying $300-500 when other devices like Apple TV and Roku offer many of the same services at a cheaper price?

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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Originally Posted by jonathancrane View Post
Well said, Fading. Well said.:



Seriously, I think it's just a topic that bugs me. I understand that with console related subjects, there's a lot of varying opinions. We all have our favorites. It's just that when it comes to a lot of the used game talk, there's groups who are cheering on companies skirting the law.

If you want to support a gaming company because you like their work, then you can do that by buying new. If you dislike Gamestop because of their prices, and how much they pay for used games, totally understandable. Just don't cheer on your favorite game manufacturers for doing stuff like this. In the long run, this is the kind of thing that turns customers away, and could lead to an eventual crash. Sometimes you have to give tough love to companies by voting with your wallet to get them back on track.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #36
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And how are they going to justify paying for online and paying $300-500 when other devices like Apple TV and Roku offer many of the same services at a cheaper price?
This is another good point. I remember early last gen the argument about pricing. It was that it would take a few years of live for the 360's price to reach the PS3's massive $600 price tag. It was very much so a weak point for Sony.

This gen MS is going to have to be careful. Assuming PS3 online is still free, that's $400 for everything. Where the X1 has similar specs, so probably costs the same to build. However it also has Kinect 2.0, which Kinect by itself sold for over $100. So there's a chance the X1 could cost more at launch than the PS4. Then add the cost of a yearly live fee on top of that. Then some of these mutlmedia functions might have an added price tag on top of it.

Microsoft is going to have to convince a lot of consumers that the Xbox One experience is worth the increased price tag, the same way Sony tried to with Blu-Ray.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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I don't know where I read it or who said it, but someone made a good point. The Xbox One might have all these extra things, and is more intended as an all-in-one multimedia center, that might be very appealing to the casual gamer, but in the end, it's the hardcore gamer who decides to spend $400-600 on a gaming console, and bring it home. The parents, grandparents, and children will be able to use it and have fun with it, but again, it's the hardcore gamer who brings it home in the first place. I can't see the casual gamer following this announcement, and wanting to spend all that cash on the console, for fancy voice and motion TV controls or to watch sports.

Unless the console barely costs nothing, I really can't see them snatching such a big piece of the casual market.
Casual gamers aren't just console cheapos like grandparents & middle aged women. You're talking of people who don't didn't really game at all until the wii & would only really consider mobile or browser gaming. You're forgetting people in normal jobs who buy HDTVs, hi fi systems & general tech equipment early. 80% of the people in my office have a 360 or PS3 and none of them are at all hardcore gamers. The guys who only play FIFA or Madden or CoD & never check gaming sites.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

Quote:
Xbox Exec: 'If You’re Backwards Compatible, You’re Really Backwards'

The quote in the headline comes from Don Mattrick, talking to the Wall Street Journal about the Xbox One when the topic of backwards compatibility came up. But that’s not the only head-scratching statement to come from the man in charge of all things Xbox.

The newspaper article covers the different strategies behind Microsoft’s next-gen offering and the console coming from Sony, including what they’re choosing to prioritize and how they use the cloud:

Quote:
Imagine a typical game: there are characters in the foreground that interact with the player, and a background landscape with trees, hills or an ocean. Mattrick said Microsoft’s new servers, which the company increased to 300,000 from 15,000 currently used by the Xbox 360, will be able to do some of the work creating images for that background landscape and then stream them back to the console and TV, while the Xbox One focuses on making the characters look as impressive as possible.
The basic concept in the quote above makes sense, as it’s essentially a distributed computing set-up. But what’s disturbing about the scenario is how it hints at a possible divide in the end experience. It seems to indicate that your game will look and/or play the way it’s supposed to if your Xbox One is online, because it’ll be able to take advantage of that cloud-computing back-end. It's a nice advantage to provide to developers, sure. But, if your console won't be online, then you probably won't want to buy games that use that back-end.

Furthermore, what about consoles that are online but won't have always the best bandwidth? Will the Xbox One have to work differently or harder if the connection falters? Will there be missing detail or inconsistent visuals? There’s probably going to be some sort of sliding scale protocol for the cloud processing but, if there’s any kind of noticeable difference in performance, Microsoft will have a big problem on their hands.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

One thing I noticed is that MS doesnt appear to have any solution to BC. Basically as it stands the system wont have it and they are moving forward, not concerned too much about it. The PS4 wont have native BC for PS3 games, but there is still the chance it could for PS2 and PS1 games. They've already said they are exploring options and the most speculated alternative is Gaikai streaming, which may not be ideal, is better than nothing at all. If they can get the details ironed out by E3, Sony really needs to start talking about that and pushing it as one of the system's features. Its definetly a plus over One

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This is another good point. I remember early last gen the argument about pricing. It was that it would take a few years of live for the 360's price to reach the PS3's massive $600 price tag. It was very much so a weak point for Sony.

This gen MS is going to have to be careful. Assuming PS3 online is still free, that's $400 for everything. Where the X1 has similar specs, so probably costs the same to build. However it also has Kinect 2.0, which Kinect by itself sold for over $100. So there's a chance the X1 could cost more at launch than the PS4. Then add the cost of a yearly live fee on top of that. Then some of these mutlmedia functions might have an added price tag on top of it.
thats why they are allegedly going the subsidized route. They are pushing TV features hard with this and if you already own cable, then you can get the system at a reduced cost with that subscription. An X1 for $199-$299 for current cable subscribers does sound very attractive.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:21 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

Quote:


Only Fox News Can Save Us From the Tyranny of Xbox One

Microsoft says the Xbox One won't need an always-online Internet connection. But if you want to play it, the thing must be able to check in with the home office once a day. Playing used or borrowed games also sounds like a real *****. Only one thing that can save gamers from this: our old enemy, Fox News.

Say what? Look, follow me here. Regardless of your political affiliation, I know all of us here hate Fox News, who constantly bait their nursing-home viewership with images of video games as government-subsidized homicide simulators that will force you to **** gay aliens. But those superpatriot bumpkins are now our best friends in this time of crisis.

Why? Because of the troops.

As has been pointed out, here and elsewhere, video game consoles are often brought along by American servicemembers on deployment, and while "hardship" is a very much reality—which gets realer the closer you get to action—they're not all out there without a TV and a power strip. Internet access [WARNING: I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE **** I AM TALKING ABOUT HERE] seems to be a limited thing even in a [WARNING: I AM TRYING TO SOUND LIKE I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT HERE] secure forward operating base which has enough of a normal life going on that troops sending email and Skyping with loved ones is a common experience. Basically, Internet sounds like it's mostly available in common areas, and it probably has something to do with security. Or porn.

Whatever the case, the Xbox One needs to be playable offline, for longer than 24 hours, if not forever, if a soldier's gonna be able to play it. And based on the remarks from Microsoft representatives, that doesn't sound like it will be possible.

So my question is, then, Why does Xbox One hate America?

Yeah, that's a dishonest question. That's why it's a question Fox News needs to ask.

Seriously, we gamers need to be as cutthroat as possible if we're going to get Microsoft—and any other game or console maker—to back off this idea. And if that means cloaking ourselves in the flag, so be it. Once Fox News contorts this edge case scenario into flag-burning contempt for our brave men and women, Microsoft will assuredly capitulate.

Microsoft is an American company and for a dozen years, the one argumentative trump card in American discourse is the troops. Since 9/11, the side that is capable of defining the sacrifices of the American military and the reasons for which it is sacrificing is the side that wins. None do that better than Fox News. And the troops out there defending our freedom to complain all day long will not be able to enjoy the thing that is making us so unhappy.

That's not the country for which my grandfathers fought. (Really. They didn't have video games back then.) So, put down that impotent Change.Org Internet petition. Cease thy fulminations upon NeoGAF and r/games. Friends, neckbeards, countrymen, lend me your emails!

Here, I've whipped up an astroturf letter for you to write to Fox News, in a vernacular they understand:



Quote:
Dear Fox News channel,

Did you know the new "Xbox One" game console was announced yesterday? There was some things about it you may not know. Like, the military can't play the new Xbox One. Because when the Xbox One plays games it always has to be connected to the Internet. So what happens is when this console comes out is that troops who take a console with them to Iraq won't be able to play it unless they have internet where they are. On ships or behind enemy lines. Also, the game won't let you play used games. Alot of our troops take discs with them and share them around, but Xbox One won't let you do that without paying a "fee"

I think this is wrong and, if I may say so as a taxpayer it is Un-American. Our troops defend our rights and the least they deserve is to play some "Xbox One" at the end of a hard day. I would like you to talk about that on your next show.

Hey if you use this please keep my name anonymous.

[make up a name]
Look, I know we have a lot of European readers here, you don't have to love America. You just have to hate Microsoft. Britons, I know our military might and superpower status is especially painful to those who lost an empire, but we saved your asses in the big dubya-dubya-eye-eye, so it's time to do your part for that special relationship. We'll get around to region-locking later. And Canada, goddammit, just do it, OK? OK? Thanks. Why do we always have to tell you twice?

Where do these emails go? I'm glad you asked. How about these addresses. We need to spread them out to hit all constituencies:

Fox & Friends: (Morning ******** to scare homeschooling moms) friends@foxnews.com

America Live: (Unemployed men perving on Megyn Kelly): kelly@foxnews.com

The O'Reilly Factor: (LEGO-hair stepford wives and FW:FW:FW:RE:FW: birthers): oreilly@foxnews.com

Hannity (Obese Civil War reenactors and freelance Constitutional scholars): hannity@foxnews.com

There you go. Do it now. Support our troops!
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:28 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

I'm past the backwards compatibility issue. I think maybe owning the a PS3 that isn't probably made it easier to deal with, but I've got the newest models of both the 360 and PS3. So, I wasn't planning on getting rid of those systems anyway.

I am curious how my gamertag or PSN ID will co-exist on two different hardwares. In theory, if I wind up getting either of these consoles, I will definitely wind up playing games again on the current gen consoles at some point. So, I'm really interested in seeing how that's handled.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:28 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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Casual gamers aren't just console cheapos like grandparents & middle aged women. You're talking of people who don't didn't really game at all until the wii & would only really consider mobile or browser gaming. You're forgetting people in normal jobs who buy HDTVs, hi fi systems & general tech equipment early. 80% of the people in my office have a 360 or PS3 and none of them are at all hardcore gamers. The guys who only play FIFA or Madden or CoD & never check gaming sites.
I'll say this to you, it's true and I'm happy you said this as this image of casual gamers has changed. their from all walk s of life age wise. but to the developers they were bombarded with it being people like it always being your grand parents etc . It was on rare occasion you see the people you mentioned but they did show them often enough too. so they were noticed to a small degree.

But cause the media always went with people you'd think wouldn't touch a game those are people that are my parents age who can be considered a grand parent now and it's just not apart of their hobby or past time . My old man loves his records and record player.

But cause it was always in the news like ABC news for us in North America in the evenings and as a positive story compared to the crap fox news would put out , and who actually showed or talk about it for various positive reasons such as health and keeping people mentally active and the obesity issue like children under 12.

this is what they have their eye on. except for one thing Nintendo had exercise peripherals products . XB1 is aimed at the couch potato and while i love potato's, lol. But this won't be shown in the media every day for years in a positive light as they hoped and as seen when Nintendo did it of which their trying to steal these fair weather costumers that Nintendo has lost due portable toys now and days such as the Iphone .


oh wow that's the 4th factor "Healthy activity."


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Old 05-22-2013, 03:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

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Originally Posted by DirtyHarry View Post
So this is most people's reaction to the reveal:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:



LOL.

That's perfect!

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #44
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I don't get it. Is that supposed to be funny? Serious? It's fails on both accounts.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

Seems like it's supposed to be hyperbolic, but I'm not exactly sure. If it's supposed to be funny, then I think it fell flat on it's face.

But, it does point out an interesting dilemma. There's gotta be an always offline solution to the X1.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:37 PM   #46
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It's something different for everyone.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:57 PM   #47
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Now it entirely makes sense why they're defending always online so hard, while denying it's really always online.

We're not talking about a once a day checkup, and just during installs. We're talking a major feature of the console. The 300,000 added servers, which is a LOT, aren't just for media streaming, they're for gaming too. I mean not just servers, but like mentioned in this article, for backgrounds in games and such.


In other words, they've probably already encouraged developers to take advantage of this system. Yes, it can lead to less stress on the system at home, and leading to some improved performance. On the other hand, if you have to draw power from servers elsewhere, some games truely will be online. On top of which, depending on just how big the backgrounds are, it could be some pretty hefty bandwith requirements.

After asking developers to take advantage of a system like that, you can't exactly backtrack. 300,000 servers is a lot of money spent, and they're going to want to use this system to it's fullest. Unlike daily mandatory internet checks which can simply be firmware patched out. This bit of news I think is the most important yet in the always online talk overall. Both for talking about something that could lead to improved performance down the road, but even more so for being something that could make games unplayable if you don't have a constant, high bandwith connection.

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango View Post
I like how people are equating loaning something to a friend with torrenting. Classy. Every company has their loyalists, I guess.
Well, I dunno how you deduced that I was a loyalist, but from a company standpoint where your end goal is to make money and that each game sale is profit, THEY won't see a difference in torrenting and lending. Would you? I like to look at these things and figure out how they came to this decision, it's not like I don't like the no borrowing option.


Quote:
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Also, unlike torrents, there will always only be one person able to use the game at any given time. If I bought a game, and then lend it to a friend, guess what, I won't be able to play the game. And once the game is back in my possession, guess what, my friend won't be able to play it.

This torrent argument is truly stupid.
Is it though? See my reply just above and the fact that lending ISN'T illegal. In the eyes of a game company you want sales. THEY see it as the same and will restrict it as best as possible now that the technology is available. No company cares that little Joey is upset because he can't borrow his buddy's games as long as they get that extra cash. Again, would you? People will buy this no matter what way this plays out.

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:02 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Xbox One - Part 2

I can picture it now... "Xbox, Turn on PS4!" I dont think i like the Xbox One

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #50
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THEY won't see a difference in torrenting and lending. Would you?

To be blunt, yes, they are different, very much so. One is taking a product you legally own, and handing it off to a close friend. The other is illegally ripping information off the disk, and then handing it out to 100's of thousands of strangers. There's a huuuuuggggge difference. As someone else said, you're train of thought leads to gifts being illegal, as the recipient didnt purchase it.

You own that one physical copy, this is law. If you want to give it away, loan it out, whatever, it's your legal right. At this point the company that made that product has no right to say what you do with it, or profit anymore off of it. The only exceptions are if the product requires you to sign something where you choose to waive rights. You however don't own the license, trademarks, ect, ect. So you can't copy your legally owned one, and hand it out to others. Which is what torrenting does (in the case of pirating games that is).


It's like trying to compare watching a show on TV to recording said show off of TV, and then trying to sell it to as a DVD collection box set on eBay. Your rights pertain to that one copy, and nothing else. Torrent, and loaning/renting/ect are night and day.

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