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Old 07-06-2013, 06:17 PM   #401
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Yea that sounds about right. You did make it sound like Bryan was going to abandon his own style, ie. what made these movies a franchise, and follow Vaughn's. I think it will be akin to FC in that it's the second film in this series that's tied to a specific decade and actual events but I don't think Bryan is going to replicate Vaughn. Heck he even got rid of the fugly Beast

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Old 07-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #402
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In actuality I am hoping for a bit of influence from FC in terms of style and pop,
This. I loved the flair and style FC had. It's what made it my favorite of the X-films so far.

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Old 07-06-2013, 07:14 PM   #403
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If anything, other than having the franchise creator back behind the camera, I'm looking forward to seeing the series return to the tone of the earlier films. I like what Vaughn did with First Class, but Days of Future Past is a different animal.

It's X-Men meets Terminator...

It needs to feel like a dark, cerebral, thriller and that's Singer's forte. That's what I loved most about Singer's take on X-Men. They genuinely felt like modern, contemporary sci-fi thrillers, as opposed to your usual superhero romp.

Here are Bryan's thoughts:

"I have a certain style when I approach X-Men films, this one is going to be a much larger canvas that takes place during multiple times…it also has an enormous cast and there is also some technologies…some science fiction aspects to it that we haven't seen yet in X-men and X-men films, but I'll probably bring a bit of my own tone, my old school tone to this one. I'm very excited about it."

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Old 07-06-2013, 09:50 PM   #404
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Simon Kinberg Is one of those writers who works In studio system mostly. He had nothing to do with elektra.That was Zack Penn.He was last writer on 2005 version of FF.Certain amount of blame on that can be leveled at Tim Story. He had nothing to do with rise of silver surfer.Due to Rothman's interfence last Stand was doomed from the get go.Brett Ratner didn't help matters.

Kinberg was key member of first class team.He was script doctor to film.The best X-Men films-X-Men,X2,First Class had changes being made to film as they were shooting or at least early part of shoot.
He was the script doctor who made Emma weak. Obviously he got the job because he has connections with 20th Century Fox. And some studios like to hire the same people for their projects, like for example, Zack Snyder with WB.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:12 PM   #405
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Bryan Singer was approached to direct X-Men in the mid 90s and turned down the offer several times because he didn't take comic books seriously. However when someone sat him down and had a deep talk with him out the deeper message of X-Men about prejudice and discrimination, he had a change of heart as the story stuck a cord with him as he is openly homosexual. The difference between Singer and Ratner, is that his heart is truly in the message of equality and not just mindless action. That is why X-Men and X2 were so great, because they had so much substance that the action didn't matter. See Superman Returns didn't work because he didn't get the character, X-Men 3 didn't work because Ratner didn't get the characters either, no one can understand the X-Men better than someone like Singer IMO.

The screen writer really doesn't have that much power, the medium of film deeply engages the senses, and as such the style the director gives the material, along with the score, and the actors portrayals ultimately has a much greater impact than the script itself. Look at The Amazing Spider-Man, the script is basically a scene by scene revision of the 2002 film, really if you look closely besides the origin, the same stuff happens at the same time (Peter gets bitten while having awkward banter with the love interest, uncle ben dies after lecturing Peter about flash, Peter says "You're not my dad", The villain has a crazed talk with his two personalities after discovering Peters identity, "I can't be with you") but it was original and great because of the vibe Webb and Garfield gave it. I'm sure Singer isn't going to disappoint regardless of the screen writer.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:16 PM   #406
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He was the script doctor who made Emma weak. Obviously he got the job because he has connections with 20th Century Fox. And some studios like to hire the same people for their projects, like for example, Zack Snyder with WB.
Your forgetting the fact that a:Budget and b:Inception caused them to drop
the Xavier/Emma telepathic battle.

It's hard to know what exactly was Kinberg's script docting for First Class other than replacing the Xavier/Emma telephatic battle.

First Class and X2 are nearly tied In RT critical reaction.So Kinberg didn't totally
screw up the film.Far from It he was key member of First Class team.

Some antiSinger people have tried to claim he had nothing to do with the usual suspects turning out so good It was all the script.so Kinberg being part of first class team needs to be remembered.

Regardless I am not totally convinced with all the work Kinberg Is doing on Star Wars that he do all the rewrites on DOFP for the Singer version.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:24 PM   #407
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Your forgetting the fact that a:Budget and b:Inception caused them to drop
the Xavier/Emma telepathic battle.

It's hard to know what exactly was Kinberg's script docting for First Class other than replacing the Xavier/Emma telephatic battle.
I'm not forgetting anything, I know they had to drop the telepathic battle but its not an excuse to make Emma weak. She was easily beaten and this was the same person who threw Magneto out of the yacht and she was in diamond form when she did that. It gave me flashbacks on how Pyro and Juggernaut were defeated in X3.

Simon Kinberg is not a good screenwriter.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:35 PM   #408
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Good. The scene would have played worse had the writers sacrificed the integrity of Xavier, the world's most powerful telepath, and Magneto, just for a repeat performance by the sparkly dame who absolutely should be easily beaten by two of the most powerful mutants in the world.


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Old 07-06-2013, 10:43 PM   #409
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First Class and X2 are nearly tied In RT critical reaction.So Kinberg didn't totally screw up the film.Far from It he was key member of First Class team.

Some antiSinger people have tried to claim he had nothing to do with the usual suspects turning out so good It was all the script.so Kinberg being part of first class team needs to be remembered.

Regardless I am not totally convinced with all the work Kinberg Is doing on Star Wars that he do all the rewrites on DOFP for the Singer version.
Kinberg's work as a producer doesn't translate to his work as a screenwriter. Just because he was a producer of a good film, it doesn't automatically make him a good screenwriter.

And just because the producers had good movies in the past, it doesn't mean that the movies they will produce will end up as a good film especially when they aren't writing the script or directing the movie. Christopher Nolan was attached to Man of Steel as a producer and Lauren-Shuler Donner was attached as a producer to films like Constantine, Just Married, Hotel for Dogs and The Vampire's Assistant.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:56 PM   #410
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Simon Kinberg is not a good screenwriter.
I think a lot of us have brought up some good points with regards to the directing/writing/final product, but it seems like you would rather not address them and just stick to this singular argument.

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:05 PM   #411
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I think a lot of us have brought up some good points with regards to the directing/writing/final product, but it seems like you would rather not address them and just stick to this singular argument.
I haven't seen a film from him that was really good.

And if the films that he co-wrote that has ratings and consensus like these:

This Means War - 26% - A career lowlight for all three of its likable stars, This Means War is loud, clumsily edited, and neither romantic nor funny.
Jumper - 16% - Featuring uninvolving characters and loose narrative, Jumper is an erratic action pic with little coherence and lackluster special effects.
X-Men: The Last Stand - 57% - Director Brett Ratner has replaced the heart and emotion (and character development) of the previous X-Men films with more action and explosions. The film should still provide ample entertainment, but viewers may truly wish this to be the Last Stand.
xXx: State of the union - 16% - Even more absurd and implausible than the first XXX movie.
Mr. and Mrs. Smith - 59% - Although this action-romance suffers from weak writing and one too many explosions, the chemistry generated by onscreen couple Pitt and Jolie is palpable enough to make this a thoroughly enjoyable summer action flick.

What are the odds that X-Men: Days of Future Past will be as good as X2/First Class?

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #412
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #413
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I haven't seen a film from him that was really good.

And if the films that he co-wrote that has ratings and consensus like these:

This Means War - 26% - A career lowlight for all three of its likable stars, This Means War is loud, clumsily edited, and neither romantic nor funny.
Jumper - 16% - Featuring uninvolving characters and loose narrative, Jumper is an erratic action pic with little coherence and lackluster special effects.
X-Men: The Last Stand - 57% - Director Brett Ratner has replaced the heart and emotion (and character development) of the previous X-Men films with more action and explosions. The film should still provide ample entertainment, but viewers may truly wish this to be the Last Stand.
xXx: State of the union - 16% - Even more absurd and implausible than the first XXX movie.
Mr. and Mrs. Smith - 59% - Although this action-romance suffers from weak writing and one too many explosions, the chemistry generated by onscreen couple Pitt and Jolie is palpable enough to make this a thoroughly enjoyable summer action flick.

What are the odds that X-Men: Days of Future Past will be as good as X2/First Class?
I agreed that he could be problematic, but I put much more credit in the director. Kinberg hasn't exactly worked with many good directors.

Bryan's track record on X-Men films is stellar. And when he works on an X-Men film, he is ALWAYS credited with story. He isn't credited as a writer for any of his other major films with the exception of Superman Returns. That is why I think Kinberg's influence will not be as strong.

I really am trying to make you feel better about the project because you seem like a big fan but very down on it. My main argument is that Kinberg isn't alone on this project and probably doesn't have that much control of the script.

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:18 PM   #414
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I agreed that he could be problematic, but I put much more credit in the director. Kinberg hasn't exactly worked with many good directors.

Bryan's track record on X-Men films is stellar. And when he works on an X-Men film, he is ALWAYS credited with story. He isn't credited as a writer for any of his other major films with the exception of Superman Returns. That is why I think Kinberg's influence will not be as strong.

I really am trying to make you feel better about the project because you seem like a big fan but very down on it. My main argument is that Kinberg isn't alone on this project and probably doesn't have that much control of the script.
Bryan's track record on X-Men films is indeed stellar so far but they are also bringing back the writer of the critically-acclaimed X-Men film, X3 and that film had a lot of problems which could easily be solved by a good screenwriter. I just don't think its a smart decision to hire Simon Kinberg as a writer for a X-Men film again. They could just hire Jane Goldman again (some reports are saying she's one of the writers but I doubt it). I haven't seen an interview with Jane Goldman talking about rewriting the script. And there is already a lot of signs why this film could be a big mess.

Hopefully I'm wrong and next year, we will see DOFP with a 80% to 93% rating in Rotten Tomatoes.

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:26 PM   #415
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Bryan's track record on X-Men films is indeed stellar so far but they are also bringing back the writer of the critically-acclaimed X-Men film, X3 and that film had a lot of problems which could be easily solved by a good screenwriter. And there is already a lot of signs why this film could be a big mess.

Hopefully I'm wrong and next year, we will see DOFP with a 80% to 93% rating in Rotten Tomatoes.
Well, that is pessimism at it's worst. Critically, he's only done good on X-Men films "so far". But your gut wants to buck the trend and just assume the worst. Yes, this movie might look a bit overblown, but I like to interpret it as ambitious... and if you're not going to be ambitious, then what's the point.

And just as you say a good screenwriter can solve problems, so can a director (who is in fact also serving as a writer).

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:34 PM   #416
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Well, that is pessimism at it's worst. Critically, he's only done good on X-Men films "so far". But your gut wants to buck the trend and just assume the worst. Yes, this movie might look a bit overblown, but I like to interpret it as ambitious... and if you're not going to be ambitious, then what's the point.

And just as you say a good screenwriter can solve problems, so can a director (who is in fact also serving as a writer).
Well X3 was ambitious and look what happened to the film. The thing is they should have chosen a screenwriter with a better track record, and I did say a good screenwriter can easily solve the problems of X3 but with DOFP, they might only see these problems once the movie is out, once the critics/fanboys reviewed the movie. I hope they do a screen test for this movie before they release it on theaters.

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:40 PM   #417
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Well X3 was ambitious and look what happened to the film. The thing is they should have chosen a screenwriter with a better track record, and I did say a good screenwriter can easily solve the problems of X3 but with DOFP, they might only see these problems once the movie is out, once the critics/fanboys reviewed the movie. I hope they do a screen test for this movie before they release it on theaters.
Haha that's true. X3 was ambitious but with a TERRIBLE director. And then add in the studio cutting down ambitions to 90 minutes. Although, I don't think Ratner filmed anything that could have really helped the plot. I agree that they should have went with a better lead screenwriter. I'm not sure who I would have went with because I think I liked X1's writing better than X2's. FC could have used some improvements as well, but it was so damn stylish and energetic that I didn't notice right away!

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:43 PM   #418
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Akiva Goldsmith wrote the worst comic book movie-Batmna and Robin and later won an
Oscar.

On same token both David Goyer and alex Kurtzman/Bob Orci have written bad films but I don't see people bashing ban of steel and Trek reboots like they do Kinberg.

Remember matthew Vaughn wrote script with Kinberg till he leftas director.If Jane Goldman also worked on script as some say It was doing the Vaughn as director phase.

And It's unknown If Kinberg Is only writer to work on film since Bryan Singer took over as director.

Kinberg wasn't sole reason those films mentioned sucked.Untill Sherlock Holmes and First Class Kinberg didn't work with good directors.And Mr and Mrs Smith was heavily rewritten that original subplot was dropped.

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Old 07-06-2013, 11:44 PM   #419
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Well they should make this movie AT LEAST 2hrs20min. At least.

Also I hope Singer does a good job with the filler characters. I'm pretty sure everyone but Charles, Magneto, and Wolverine will be background noise so it will be interesting to see how he handles that without making the movie feel rushed, crowded, and lacking character development for supporting cast. Maybe just showing the disparity of the future characters and handling past characters (who I'm assuming will include Warpath and Sunspot) like they handled Havoc will be enough?

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Old 07-07-2013, 12:00 AM   #420
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Akiva Goldsmith wrote the worst comic book movie-Batmna and Robin and later won an Oscar.
Maybe we should wait for Simon Kinberg to win an Oscars first before he writes the script of another X-Men film.

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Old 07-07-2013, 12:21 AM   #421
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Akiva Goldsmith wrote the worst comic book movie-Batmna and Robin and later won an
Oscar.

On same token both David Goyer and alex Kurtzman/Bob Orci have written bad films but I don't see people bashing ban of steel and Trek reboots like they do Kinberg.

Remember matthew Vaughn wrote script with Kinberg till he leftas director.If Jane Goldman also worked on script as some say It was doing the Vaughn as director phase.

And It's unknown If Kinberg Is only writer to work on film since Bryan Singer took over as director.

Kinberg wasn't sole reason those films mentioned sucked.Untill Sherlock Holmes and First Class Kinberg didn't work with good directors.And Mr and Mrs Smith was heavily rewritten that original subplot was dropped.
Perfect example. But ew, he wrote I, Robot haha. I hated that movie so much. Throw in I Am Legend as well.

Kinberg has worked with so-so directors like Guy Ritchie, Lee Tamahori, and Doug "hit-or-miss" Liman, but also with hacks like Ratner and the one known only as McG. He has yet to work with anyone really good.

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Maybe we should wait for Simon Kinberg to win an Oscars first before he writes the script of another X-Men film.
Ha good one. But the point is that all writers have to start somewhere. Bryan saw something in him, so I have (some) faith.

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Old 07-07-2013, 12:55 AM   #422
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Ha good one. But the point is that all writers have to start somewhere. Bryan saw something in him, so I have (some) faith.
I know that but Simon Kinberg is not even a fresh writer to begin with. He's already in this industry for quite some time now. Instead of developing these writers, they should just hire writers with a better resume especially this is for a big expensive film.

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Old 07-07-2013, 04:04 AM   #423
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Yes, Singer has had some mediocre movies recently, but he has done pretty well with his X-Men movies. To me, that is stronger evidence than his failures in other areas.
I'd find that a lot more comforting if it wasn't for the massive disappointment of The Hobbit last year. On paper, it was about Oscar-winning director returning to the franchise which he took to creative and commercial heights ten years ago and which he cares about deeply. On screen? A bloated bore which had a lot more in common with Jackson's previous two underwhelming films.

It would be nice to think that directors have this magical touch when it comes to "their" franchises that never ever leaves them, but in reality that's not exactly the case. See also: Spiderman 3, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Star Wars prequels, and (for me at least) The Dark Knight Rises.

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Old 07-07-2013, 06:14 AM   #424
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I'd find that a lot more comforting if it wasn't for the massive disappointment of The Hobbit last year. On paper, it was about Oscar-winning director returning to the franchise which he took to creative and commercial heights ten years ago and which he cares about deeply. On screen? A bloated bore which had a lot more in common with Jackson's previous two underwhelming films.

It would be nice to think that directors have this magical touch when it comes to "their" franchises that never ever leaves them, but in reality that's not exactly the case. See also: Spiderman 3, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Star Wars prequels, and (for me at least) The Dark Knight Rises.
You're right that it's not a given. The only thing that I can say is different is that with something like the X-Men franchise, there are endless stories to tell that draw from an also massive source. For someone like Bryan who is now a fan, I like to think that his enthusiasm is real and encouraging.

Something like The Hobbit is a direct translation and only so much creativity can be injected into Tolkien's world before a director might get a little lazy. And the Star Wars prequels and Indy sequels were just stretching out a once neat idea. Seeing as this is only Singer's third time in the driver's seat, I hope he's excited to be back.

But you do have a point and I'll add to the list... Ridley Scott returning to make Prometheus. Although, I thought the movie was decent (visually stunning at least).

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Old 07-07-2013, 11:36 AM   #425
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