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View Poll Results: Which Movie Inspired a Worse Fan Backlash?
Dark Knight Rises 18 20.00%
Iron Man 3 63 70.00%
About Equal Between Them 6 6.67%
"How Dare You Imply That _____ Wasn't Actually Bad!" 3 3.33%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2013, 06:24 PM   #76
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Default Re: Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

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I am certainly not missing the point because I can surely agree with this. When it comes to Nolan's work, what he has on paper can be different on the screen, but what he has in his mind could also look different on screen. I bet he didn't think Talia's death scene would get that much flack for it, but it definitely looked odd to say the least that her head fluttered like that before she died, although maybe Nolan had a point of her becoming paralyzed neck down during that fall and that's why all of her movement is of her head. Who knows.



I love Memento, but I will always says Nolan's best film is The Prestige. Everything about that film is just damn near flawless, imo.



I feel the exact opposite, lol, but I'm glad you enjoyed IM3



I actually think the audience was able to like Talia, but as Miranda from the start to think she's one of the reasons that's trying to get Bruce out of his slump by helping Gotham City with that clean energy project, but you start to get hints of the idea that Miranda may actually be a villain...getting him to stop thinking about Rachel, sleeping with him and trying to get him to leave with her and all of those "nods" make even more sense after the film is over where you understand those Talia references throughout of TDKR before the actual reveal, but I do agree that Nolan didn't give Talia her all as a character.

Still, even with that, I like that more than Killian being Mandarin. What bugs me the most about IM3 is the combination of Adrian Killian and The Mandarin. It was bad enough Favreau did that with Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo in IM2. Ben Kinglsey did a remarkable job as the visage of Mandarin before the reveal and Guy Pearce was certainly interesting before the big reveal as well...it's just when the reveal happens, I tossed up my hands that the two characters were combined as one where Mandarin should have been his own character(and played by Kingsley, of course). I'm sure many of the CB community felt that way too.
I clearly knew she was Talia from the start, but I just don't feel Nolan gave me reason to really care. Every scene she was in was fairly meh to me. I could see the chemistry with Selena, while I felt Miranda was being forced onto us in her scenes. Then once the reveal happens, I just wasn't given anymore reason to care because it devolved into a lamer version of the BB climax almost point for point. She didn't offer anything new to the story or take the story in a more interesting direction. On the other hand, the Mandarin reveal was done for the proper thematic purposes. I think people are just more disappointed because Kingsley wasn't the villain more than the actual points of the story. Killian had a compelling motivation and Pearce did a good job once the bait and switch was done. Also, I avoided spoilers. Shane Black fooled me. I avoided TDKR spoilers. Nolan's hand was obvious even if you avoided them. I just feel IM3 was solidly better.

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Old 06-12-2013, 06:35 PM   #77
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I clearly knew she was Talia from the start, but I just don't feel Nolan gave me reason to really care. Every scene she was in was fairly meh to me. I could see the chemistry with Selena, while I felt Miranda was being forced onto us in her scenes.
I thought there was plenty of chemistry between Christian and Marion whenever those two were on screen, but I'd most certainly agree that Christian and Anne's were the best with Bruce and Selina. I'm glad to just get Christian together with two amazing actresses that he was able to have so much chemistry instead of Katie in BB and Maggie in TDK. My favorite scene between the two is at the masquerade ball where Bruce seemed like he was standing on his toes while "Miranda" explained on how to help bring balance(LoS reference) and just telling Bruce how it is that he was hurt for mothballing the project and went into exile. She's the first female love interest in Nolan's trilogy to really tell Bruce what's up with no remorse and I liked that about her.

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Then once the reveal happens, I just wasn't given anymore reason to care because it devolved into a lamer version of the BB climax almost point for point. She didn't offer anything new to the story or take the story in a more interesting direction.
If anything, Talia's arc was meant to be a parallel to BB with Ra's as that was the point all the way down to how they crashed in their respective transportation vehicles(the train and then HEMMTT truck). I don't think Nolan even wanted to go for something different for Talia, but I do love her dialogue to Batman inside City Hall.

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On the other hand, the Mandarin reveal was done for the proper thematic purposes. I think people are just more disappointed because Kingsley wasn't the villain more than the actual points of the story. Killian had a compelling motivation and Pearce did a good job once the bait and switch was done. Also, I avoided spoilers. Shane Black fooled me. I avoided TDKR spoilers. Nolan's hand was obvious even if you avoided them. I just feel IM3 was solidly better.
I think, besides Kinglsey not being the true Mandarin, I'd suspect others feel the same way as I do with how IM3's Ten Rings contradicts the first film's version so much(at least with the CB community...highly doubt the general audience cares), but Killian's motivation was pure desperation as that's what he even tells Stark...imo, Talia's motivation of revenge and having this vindictive plan to just tear away all the good Batman had done is a much better plan for thematic reasons.

Sadly, I saw the spoilery picture of "Miranda" in LoS attire, but Black did indeed fool me as well. I just didn't care for it.

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Old 06-12-2013, 06:40 PM   #78
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Default Re: Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

Talia's death scene is possibly the worst one I've ever seen on film. It is hilariously bad.

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Old 06-12-2013, 06:42 PM   #79
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He did not work on the film for 4 years. 2 of the years between TDK and TDKR were spent on Inception, a huge budget production with location shooting all over the world.
Well, obviously he should have worked on TDKR a bit longer.

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Old 06-12-2013, 06:55 PM   #80
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Well, obviously he should have worked on TDKR a bit longer.
Eh, I can say the same about Shane Black.

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Old 06-12-2013, 07:04 PM   #81
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Default Re: Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

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I thought there was plenty of chemistry between Christian and Marion whenever those two were on screen, but I'd most certainly agree that Christian and Anne's were the best with Bruce and Selina. I'm glad to just get Christian together with two amazing actresses that he was able to have so much chemistry instead of Katie in BB and Maggie in TDK. My favorite scene between the two is at the masquerade ball where Bruce seemed like he was standing on his toes while "Miranda" explained on how to help bring balance(LoS reference) and just telling Bruce how it is that he was hurt for mothballing the project and went into exile. She's the first female love interest in Nolan's trilogy to really tell Bruce what's up with no remorse and I liked that about her.
See, her scenes did nothing for me. She was just kind of there and other characters kept saying they should hook up. More I felt was done to tell me I should care than was shown. When dialogue of other characters is saying more about characters and their relationships than what I am seeing from them does, there is a problem.

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If anything, Talia's arc was meant to be a parallel to BB with Ra's as that was the point all the way down to how they crashed in their respective transportation vehicles(the train and then HEMMTT truck). I don't think Nolan even wanted to go for something different for Talia, but I do love her dialogue to Batman inside City Hall.
And it offered nothing we didn't already see, came off as unoriginal, and didn't take the story anywhere interesting. Making an exact parallel to BB was a giant mistake from a stortytelling perspective, IMO. Nolan didn't do enough to make her stand out, and even in legacy plotlines and such like this was going for, there needs to be a new dynamic at work otherwise the film is just treading ground we already covered, and I think TDKR treaded too much of what we have already seen.

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I think, besides Kinglsey not being the true Mandarin, I'd suspect others feel the same way as I do with how IM3's Ten Rings contradicts the first film's version so much(at least with the CB community...highly doubt the general audience cares), but Killian's motivation was pure desperation as that's what he even tells Stark...imo, Talia's motivation of revenge and having this vindictive plan to just tear away all the good Batman had done is a much better plan for thematic reasons.

Sadly, I saw the spoilery picture of "Miranda" in LoS attire, but Black did indeed fool me as well. I just didn't care for it.
Killian's entire plot was geared toward deception and working in the shadows in order to manipulate everybody, and I think that was a more interesting story than what was presented in Talia's plan. At least for me. I agree it didn't mesh with the 10 Rings of the previous films, but Black at least presented us with an interesting story/motivation despite that.

I'll be the first person to say I don't hate Nolan's work. I think he is an amazing director and has made some amazing films. I just don't think TDKR was one of them and I feel it gets way overhyped due to his name. I love Steven Speilberg and Stanley Kubrick. Both of them have made movies I didn't like (Eyes Wide Shut, Indy 4, etc.) It happens to the best of them.

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Old 06-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #82
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See, her scenes did nothing for me. She was just kind of there and other characters kept saying they should hook up. More I felt was done to tell me I should care than was shown. When dialogue of other characters is saying more about characters and their relationships than what I am seeing from them does, there is a problem.
I don't see how Alfred and Lucius saying "Miranda" is good for Bruce says anything about her more than what we know from her, but sorry if you saw that as a problem.

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And it offered nothing we didn't already see, came off as unoriginal, and didn't take the story anywhere interesting. Making an exact parallel to BB was a giant mistake from a stortytelling perspective, IMO. Nolan didn't do enough to make her stand out, and even in legacy plotlines and such like this was going for, there needs to be a new dynamic at work otherwise the film is just treading ground we already covered, and I think TDKR treaded too much of what we have already seen.
See, I love that parallel from Talia in TDKR's third act to Ra's in BB's third act. Really shows up the comparison for both films as the beginning and end of Nolan's trilogy. Yes, Talia should have had more, but imo, it should've been more before that chase sequence because I felt that part was crucial.

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Killian's entire plot was geared toward deception and working in the shadows in order to manipulate everybody, and I think that was a more interesting story than what was presented in Talia's plan. At least for me. I agree it didn't mesh with the 10 Rings of the previous films, but Black at least presented us with an interesting story/motivation despite that.
Talia's plot was a bit of deceptive as well as she played the "deception" to Bane's "theatricality", imo.

I think Black could have made a far more interesting take and continuing on the pre-establishment of the Ten Rings from the first film, imo. If they had Kingsley be the true Mandarin supplying the money for Killian's A.I.M. and using the failed Extremis experiments as weapons for the Ten Rings, that could make them much more of a hardcore terrorist group because Mandarin would be using non-willing suicide (literal) bombers. Black still at least definitely tried and gave it more thought than I can say for many directors behind certain 3rd installments.

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I'll be the first person to say I don't hate Nolan's work. I think he is an amazing director and has made some amazing films. I just don't think TDKR was one of them and I feel it gets way overhyped due to his name. I love Steven Speilberg and Stanley Kubrick. Both of them have made movies I didn't like (Eyes Wide Shut, Indy 4, etc.) It happens to the best of them.
Agreed. The best directors have films that are not up to quality. To me for Nolan, it's Insomnia. The Prestige and TDKR are definitely my two favorite films of the guy, but Insomnia...it's not as if it's a really bad film, I just don't find that it has Nolan's "touch" that his films usually have that feel like Christopher Nolan films.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:08 PM   #83
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Eh, I can say the same about Shane Black.
You could say that, but you'd be wrong.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:10 PM   #84
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You could say that, but you'd be wrong.
Just as you were wrong about Nolan and TDKR

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Old 06-13-2013, 10:45 AM   #85
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Talia's death scene is possibly the worst one I've ever seen on film. It is hilariously bad.
And it's worse when you consider Bane was his terrorist friend-zoned pet. She was supposed to be THE ultimate villain, but she was far from deliver.

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Old 06-13-2013, 10:51 AM   #86
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Default Re: Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

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Agreed. The best directors have films that are not up to quality. To me for Nolan, it's Insomnia. The Prestige and TDKR are definitely my two favorite films of the guy, but Insomnia...it's not as if it's a really bad film, I just don't find that it has Nolan's "touch" that his films usually have that feel like Christopher Nolan films.
Love, Love, Love; TDK, Memento and Prestige
I think his other movies; BB/Inception/TDKR are overrated.
Put it this way, his average is just average but his best is probably better than any modern director plying his trade.

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Old 06-13-2013, 12:06 PM   #87
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And it's worse when you consider Bane was his terrorist friend-zoned pet. She was supposed to be THE ultimate villain, but she was far from deliver.
Oh goodness....well, at least you're not like another poster who believes Bane is a pedo in TDKR.

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Love, Love, Love; TDK, Memento and Prestige
I think his other movies; BB/Inception/TDKR are overrated.
Put it this way, his average is just average but his best is probably better than any modern director plying his trade.
I don't think I care for a film being called overrated. If someone doesn't like a film, it's best to say you just don't like it, imo. Saying it's instead overrated sounds like a slap to the face like you're saying it's not good enough for anyone to like it, which is wrong. I don't like The Amazing Spider-Man or Iron Man 3(for examples), but I won't say they're overrated. I realize people like them.

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Old 06-13-2013, 02:44 PM   #88
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Oh goodness....well, at least you're not like another poster who believes Bane is a pedo in TDKR.



I don't think I care for a film being called overrated. If someone doesn't like a film, it's best to say you just don't like it, imo. Saying it's instead overrated sounds like a slap to the face like you're saying it's not good enough for anyone to like it, which is wrong. I don't like The Amazing Spider-Man or Iron Man 3(for examples), but I won't say they're overrated. I realize people like them.
I call movies overrated that are claimed to be great movies when (imho) they are no such thing. But it is just my opinion.
In the BB vs ASM tread, BB is winning by a landslide but I personally think ASM is a better movie because it has more of the things 'I' like in a movie.
The difference is no one can claim ASM is overrated, if anything it's underrated because the movie was pretty much written off.

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Old 06-13-2013, 02:47 PM   #89
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Oh goodness....well, at least you're not like another poster who believes Bane is a pedo in TDKR.
Well, we don't see Bane is any activities of that like. But we do see him being Talia's terrorist friend-zoned pet.

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Old 06-13-2013, 08:23 PM   #90
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I call movies overrated that are claimed to be great movies when (imho) they are no such thing. But it is just my opinion.
In the BB vs ASM tread, BB is winning by a landslide but I personally think ASM is a better movie because it has more of the things 'I' like in a movie.
Then you should just say you don't find them great. But to call them overrated is still a slap to the face of the film's quality that is actually good, but just not your taste, that's all.

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The difference is no one can claim ASM is overrated, if anything it's underrated because the movie was pretty much written off.


Well, yah....you got me there.

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Well, we don't see Bane is any activities of that like. But we do see him being Talia's terrorist friend-zoned pet.
We see a platonic love between the two, but why must we say Bane was a "friend-zoned pet"? Why would he even WANT to be more with someone that he knew as a ten year old? Lol.

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Old 06-13-2013, 08:36 PM   #91
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Default Re: Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

He's a guardian and friend. If he was a pet he wouldn't go against her wishes and try to kill Batman after she left.

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Old 06-13-2013, 08:45 PM   #92
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We see a platonic love between the two, but why must we say Bane was a "friend-zoned pet"? Why would he even WANT to be more with someone that he knew as a ten year old? Lol.
God knows. No one knows why he fell in love with a 10 year-old girl. All we know from the movie is that he did. And he is in love, and when Talia speaks about it he turns from a violent terrorist to a puppy-eyed lamb. That's not a man who left love in the past.

And if he is in love with her (puppy eyes and everything) and she knows it and she doesn't want to take the next step with him, but still wants him to be around and do things for her, brother, that is being friend-zoned.

And if she says "do it" and he jumps and does it, that is to be a pet.



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He's a guardian and friend. If he was a pet he wouldn't go against her wishes and try to kill Batman after she left.
Because dogs and cats never do things you have forbidden them to do when you're out.

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Old 06-13-2013, 09:06 PM   #93
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God knows. No one knows why he fell in love with a 10 year-old girl. All we know from the movie is that he did. And he is in love, and when Talia speaks about it he turns from a violent terrorist to a puppy-eyed lamb. That's not a man who left love in the past.

And if he is in love with her (puppy eyes and everything) and she knows it and she doesn't want to take the next step with him, but still wants him to be around and do things for her, brother, that is being friend-zoned.

And if she says "do it" and he jumps and does it, that is to be a pet.
The look Bane gives is when Talia is retelling their difficult past; nothing to do with him becoming a "puppy-eyed" lamb. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks Bane is actually meant to be this "friend-zoned pet", lol. Perhaps it's from their own experience and it hurts when they watch it, who knows

Bane and Talia have a platonic love and that kind of love can still make you cry for one another. But, in the year of 2013, the only love I guess people assume exists is the love of wanting in someone's pants

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Old 06-13-2013, 11:24 PM   #94
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The look Bane gives is when Talia is retelling their difficult past; nothing to do with him becoming a "puppy-eyed" lamb. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks Bane is actually meant to be this "friend-zoned pet", lol. Perhaps it's from their own experience and it hurts when they watch it, who knows
So, you have had your friend-zoned times and thus you're defensive about it? Maybe that's why you're also defensive with Maguire's Peter?

Nothing wrong with that, Anno. People have bad experiences. The thing is you don't have to live in the past.

But the images are clear, Bane becomes an puppy-eyed lamb when he listens to Talia. Poor fellow, he was so intimidating and suddenly his thunder was stolen forever by this woman who uses him but won't love him back.

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Bane and Talia have a platonic love and that kind of love can still make you cry for one another. But, in the year of 2013, the only love I guess people assume exists is the love of wanting in someone's pants
Aw, I feel sorry for anyone who thinks in 2013 the only love people assume exists is the love of wanting in someone's pants. Perhaps it's from their own experience not scoring and it hurts when they watch it, who knows


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Old 06-14-2013, 01:38 AM   #95
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I think it was easily IM3. Some fans were annoyed and negative toward more aspects of TDKR, but upset fans were completely foaming at the mouth toward the Mandarin Twist alone in IM3.

Personally, it's my favorite Iron Man movie but I think the answer is clear.

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Old 06-14-2013, 12:53 PM   #96
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So, you have had your friend-zoned times and thus you're defensive about it? Maybe that's why you're also defensive with Maguire's Peter?

Nothing wrong with that, Anno. People have bad experiences. The thing is you don't have to live in the past.

But the images are clear, Bane becomes an puppy-eyed lamb when he listens to Talia. Poor fellow, he was so intimidating and suddenly his thunder was stolen forever by this woman who uses him but won't love him back.


I was referring to YOU having called Bane a "friend-zoned pet" and thus you have had experience of it happening to you. Boy oh boy, I guess that went right over your head.

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I feel sorry for anyone who thinks Bane is actually meant to be this "friend-zoned pet", lol. Perhaps it's from their own experience and it hurts when they watch it, who knows
I'll try to word things out more correctly for ya next time.

And obviously the "image" is not clear when you've got it wrong. He was sadden because Talia was giving the correct backstory of it all. Bane is saddened over their history. Goodness man, you'll twist everything around as long as you view it the way you want to see it.

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Aw, I feel sorry for anyone who thinks in 2013 the only love people assume exists is the love of wanting in someone's pants. Perhaps it's from their own experience not scoring and it hurts when they watch it, who knows
So you finally admit it's happened to you? So you DID read into what I said correctly.


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Old 06-14-2013, 01:31 PM   #97
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My own take is that, yeah, IM3 had more and louder fans backlashing against the Mandarin Twist. However, I think TDKR wins out for the backlash being more toxic. Sure, there are people wishing Pepper died, but they are relatively few compared to the people wishing Batman died, or hoping that Blake *will* die.

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Old 06-14-2013, 02:53 PM   #98
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Iron Man 3 - no contest.

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Old 06-14-2013, 07:32 PM   #99
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I was referring to YOU having called Bane a "friend-zoned pet" and thus you have had experience of it happening to you. Boy oh boy, I guess that went right over your head.
You are asking to me if what I said that happened to me actually happened to me? I kind of asked the question before you asked it.

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I'll try to word things out more correctly for ya next time.
Please do.

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And obviously the "image" is not clear when you've got it wrong. He was sadden because Talia was giving the correct backstory of it all. Bane is saddened over their history. Goodness man, you'll twist everything around as long as you view it the way you want to see it.
Yes, he's saddened over the story because he was not loved back. His father-in-law to be didn't accept his love. And neither did she.


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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
So you finally admit it's happened to you? So you DID read into what I said correctly.
Why? Did I say that in 2013 the only love people assume exists is the love of wanting in someone's pants?
No, that was you.

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Old 06-14-2013, 07:53 PM   #100
Victarion
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Default Re: Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Maybe it's just me and only a few, but while I did not like Iron Man 3, I was always aware of the fan backlash TDKR had...I'm guessing there was a lot more in the IM3 boards then I thought?
There seems to have been more posters like BatLobsterRises and myself who defend IM3 through what was presented in the film and seemingly glossed over in the reviews/discussion. However, I felt the execution in IM3 didn't line up with Black's intentions (which I understood, and I liked the idea he had behind his villains). Overall, I think the abrupt difference in tone between the trailers for IM3 and the movie created a bigger fan backlash. I certainly expected something on par, if not better than TDKR, based on the trailers. I was let down in that respect.

Disregard Racer Morose, Anno. I don't seem him bringing in anything from TDKR aside from Bane's feelings for Talia. We're adults here--we know what would likely happen to a child stuck in a prison like the Warlord's. Especially if she belonged to the tyrant that threw the prisoners into the Pit.

@Anno, Spider-Fan: I didn't see Talia as a parallel of Ra's. Her situation seemed to be what Bruce could've been if he stewed in his obsession over his parents' murder without Batman as an outlet.

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But with all this talk of filmmakers “ruining our childhood”, we forget that right now is someone else’s childhood. This is their time.

Last edited by Victarion; 06-14-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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