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Old 06-06-2013, 08:37 PM   #76
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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Originally Posted by TheScarecrow View Post
Well really all of the successful starts to superhero franchises have begun with a relatively simple plot, and this includes Batman Begins.

The only thing I've heard so far that worries me is a lack of character development for Lois. I was hoping Amy Adams as Lois would be a game-changer for (uncostumed) love interests.
Honestly, people really need to go back to Batman Begins on this one, because from day one MoS has felt exactly like the antithesis of that film...and to be honest I really wouldn't have it any other way. Tons of people may have forgotten Batman Begins for the more showier cbm's that were made afterwards, but I haven't, and it's fitting considering BB was modeled after S:TM.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:38 PM   #77
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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YES. Honestly the more plot-oriented something becomes, the more it has a risk of making the character just another cog in the complex clockwork.

I think there are limitations in terms of how well an origin story can be in terms of complexity. What matters most to me is character development, and the relationship between a hero and the world around him, with strong themes to emphasize his significance. A fairly straightforward story is fine by me, those looking for a winding plot can wait until the sequel.

However, if it capitalizes on its potential, I'll be a VERY happy puppy
Exactly. Sequels is where things are allowed to get a bit more complicated. Right now we are in the first stage of world-building and establishing the characters.

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Honestly, people really need to go back to Batman Begins on this one, because from day one MoS has felt exactly like the antithesis of that film...and to be honest I really wouldn't have it any other way. Tons of people may have forgotten Batman Begins for the more showier cbm's that were made afterwards, but I haven't, and it's fitting considering BB was modeled after S:TM.
Yupppp.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:40 PM   #78
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

^ I don't think BB is underrated PER say, but I do think it's underwatched and very influential. I know I'll watch it some time this week to make the wait more easier.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:42 PM   #79
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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We get it dude.
I think JonahNolan secretly loves The Avengers.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:43 PM   #80
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

Great idea! I havent watched BB in a while and it would be perfect viewing for the night before I see MoS. It will be fun to compare and draw parallels between the two films.

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At the risk of being totally offensive...there's a quote from Ghandi about Christianity that can be reappropriated for this.

"I like your Christopher Nolan, but I do not like your Nolanites."
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:44 PM   #81
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

^ Or openly.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #82
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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I think JonahNolan secretly loves The Avengers.
lol no doubt.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers

At the risk of being totally offensive...there's a quote from Ghandi about Christianity that can be reappropriated for this.

"I like your Christopher Nolan, but I do not like your Nolanites."
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:48 PM   #83
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

Garret Collins:

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Man of Steel’s effects were about as big and sound as you’d imagine (lots of explosions) and as you’d expect from a Snyder film, its best moments come during its bouts of action. But, I will say it again: this film is one that is vacant from the disposition that should come from a reboot of a character such as Superman. Its hints of civil unrest and angst driven sub plots hurt it. Overall, I would call Man of Steel a very commendable, but not great addition to the comic book film genre. A nice use of its coat of stylistic gloss and Snyder’s directing skills save it from being overly gaudy. But in my honest opinion, this is not the Superman film that fans of the character have been waiting for. It’s admittedly better than any of the Superman films we have gotten the last three times, but nowhere close to being the genre changing film that first one was all those years ago.

3.5 out of 5

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #84
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

This should be interesting.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:53 PM   #85
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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Garret Collins:
Quote:
Man of Steel’s effects were about as big and sound as you’d imagine (lots of explosions) and as you’d expect from a Snyder film, its best moments come during its bouts of action. But, I will say it again: this film is one that is vacant from the disposition that should come from a reboot of a character such as Superman. Its hints of civil unrest and angst driven sub plots hurt it. Overall, I would call Man of Steel a very commendable, but not great addition to the comic book film genre. A nice use of its coat of stylistic gloss and Snyder’s directing skills save it from being overly gaudy. But in my honest opinion, this is not the Superman film that fans of the character have been waiting for. It’s admittedly better than any of the Superman films we have gotten the last three times, but nowhere close to being the genre changing film that first one was all those years ago.

3.5 out of 5
So Snyder saves the film from a somewhat lackluster script? Kind of a so-so review for the film but high praise for Snyder.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:56 PM   #86
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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Garret Collins:
**** this guy.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:57 PM   #87
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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**** this guy.
Lol.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:59 PM   #88
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

we were worried about them going for 'angsty' tbqh

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:00 PM   #89
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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**** this guy.
Haha.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:01 PM   #90
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

Dont worry. Snyder counters the angst with the KABOOM!

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #91
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

What does Garrett Collins write for?

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:04 PM   #92
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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I think JonahNolan secretly loves The Avengers.
No, the only comic book movies I love are the Dark Knight Trilogy and Watchmen.

Maybe Spider-man 2.

I'm very disappointed in the Marvel Movie Universe thus far.

Speaking for me only.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:05 PM   #93
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

Garret gave IM3 4.5/5 but ALSO gave a BB 3.5, which is the same rating as Wrath of the Titans?

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:06 PM   #94
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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The only thing I've heard so far that worries me is a lack of character development for Lois. I was hoping Amy Adams as Lois would be a game-changer for (uncostumed) love interests.
I haven't been quiet about how confusing I find this particular complaint. I'm not a writer, but from what I understand from a brief search for descriptions of what constitutes "character development" there are certain conditions that need to be met.
Character development is, by definition, the change in characterization of a Dynamic Character, who changes over the course of a narrative. At its core, it shows a character changing. Most narrative fiction in any media will feature some display of this.

While the definition of "good" and "bad" character development is subjective, it's generally agreed upon that good character development is believable and rounds out a well-written character. Bad character development leads to the feeling that someone is manipulating the events to their own whims, or even reduces the character's believability.

There are many sub-tropes that take place due to this trope, some of which include (among others)
  • The Coming of Age Story is centered around this trope in the context of growing up.
  • Darker and Edgier and Lighter and Softer can either deepen a character or round out unnecessary roughness. They can also turn them into a pile of mush or make them an unsympathetic jerk.
  • The Heel Face Turn, Face Heel Turn and Morality Adjustment tropes rely on character development to make this a believable turn of events.
To be a Rounded Character, a character needs to have complexity or depth which is described this way:

Character Depth: This is how "deep" a character is. It involves questions like why the character does what the character does, what the character thinks, feels, desires, and hates, where the character came from, and/or how the character sees the world. It may be there in Sub Text, but it still affects the depth of the character.

This is often known as a character being One-Dimensional, Two-Dimensional, or Three-Dimensional.

Keep in mind that not all characters have to be three dimensional, nor is there necessarily something wrong with a character who is not. The genre, audience, plot, and role of the character affects the minimum depth needed for the character to maintain Willing Suspension of Disbelief. Go at least that far, and you're good with the audience.

The Three Dimensions can be thought of thus:
  • Height: How important the character is to the story/society/main character. Most one-dimensional characters are defined by this and one or two character trait(s).
  • Breadth: Variation within a character. The amount of different traits that define them and how well these interact.
  • Depth: How the character changes the better you know them. If your ogres are like onions, they do indeed have depth.

You can go further, it's just optional. Related to this is whether a character is Dynamic or Static, these can maintain or increase the dimensions of a character, or simply "move them sideways" to change their nature without adding depth. Related to Character Calculus, at least in that the farther away a character is from the POV or Focus axes, the less developed they are likely to be.

Source: TV Tropes and Idioms
So, based on what we know how is that Lois Lane in Man of Steel can be said to lack character development or lack depth/complexity as a character?

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:06 PM   #95
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

I googled his name but there arent any results linking him to any newspapers or review sites so maybe hes not a pro critic.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:06 PM   #96
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

He writes for Variety.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #97
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

A friend of mine saw MOS last night and his word to me was
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"It's about time the King returns. The action and visual was out of this world. It will blow your mind comes Jun 14."

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #98
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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What does Garrett Collins write for?
AmigoRadio.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #99
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

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lol no doubt.
I know you from the Nolan fans board. You are a troll.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #100
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Default Re: TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 1

Woops. Edit :/

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