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View Poll Results: "S" plastic shield vs broken neck.
"S" shield, cool new power designed to kill powerless enemies. 7 6.93%
Broken neck to save a family and millions of future innocent lives. 94 93.07%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-16-2013, 03:54 PM   #376
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I read that article as well, and I thought that Superman just wasn't able to do both at the same time, at least not yet. He wasn't being uncaring, he was just still learning what he was able to do.

The 1978 Superman had a 12 years to train to be a superhero. This Superman had, what? A day?
He had 33 years of being brought up by the wrong Kent family. Superman shouldn't need training to care more about saving people than even saving himself.

This Superman let anger take control, and he was thinking with his fists, not his heart.

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Old 06-16-2013, 03:58 PM   #377
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Then he would have let Zod escape. This is pretty much a no-win situation, unless Superman repeatedly batted him to the sky, and that would be a one sided fight with the character bobbing up and down like a Yoyo until he figured out what to do. As SOON as the Fight hits Metropolis, destruction and death are pretty much guaranteed.

But yes, I'd prefer it if he'd tried to bring Zod up higher to the sky. As for a final outcome, they'd have to create another wormhole or something for Superman to fling Zod into. It'd be too fantastical for Nolan, I'll guarantee you. I'm sure Goyer already had to provide a LONG explanation on why the PT CAN exist :P
He had Zod in a headlock. The force of the take off would have broke his neck anyways.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:01 PM   #378
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I thought it seemed off that they were even back in the Daily Planet's office at the end of Man of Steel, much less having tickets to games. I loved the movie, but it was definitely missing a reference to the destruction that was caused.
It could have been cool...though clearly would bring up more thoughts of 9/11...if at the end maybe Superman and Lois were looking over a destroyed Metropolis and she comments on the destruction and he says "No, we'll rebuild it together...we will build a city that the entire world will look to in awe...the City of Tomorrow"

That alone would have let us know that Superman himself helped rebuild this city (which is why it was done so quickly)...that through his work he felt that he had become a part of this city...and the city had become a part of him.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:03 PM   #379
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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He had Zod in a headlock. The force of the take off would have broke his neck anyways.
During the metropolis battle, or in the museum? Because at that point, I'd agree.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #380
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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He had 33 years of being brought up by the wrong Kent family. Superman shouldn't need training to care more about saving people than even saving himself.

This Superman let anger take control, and he was thinking with his fists, not his heart.
It's not that he let his anger control him its that he's not able to fight Zod and save people at the same time. I'm not sure why you think this Superman fights with his fist and is only controlled by anger. Lois herself says that Clark won't be able to stop saving people. He took jobs in the middle of nowhere to get away from people so he wouldn't risk revealing himself because his father died for that. He didn't spend 20 years of his life searching for his home. He only heard about the scout ship a couple weeks before Zod's invasion.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:06 PM   #381
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I appreciate that you ended your comment with the truth...that you really don't like Superman.
Ah, the "you aren't a true fan" card. We just love that around here.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:07 PM   #382
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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During the metropolis battle, or in the museum? Because at that point, I'd agree.
At the museum. Although in the Metropolis battle he did try to take Zod to the sky, it just wasn't a straight shot up more of a horizontal rise.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #383
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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At the museum. Although in the Metropolis battle he did try to take Zod to the sky, it just wasn't a straight shot up more of a horizontal rise.
Yeah, I'm sure the weight of Zod's suit probably made it harder. As soon as Zod DIVED for the museum and pretty much begged Superman to kill him, there was no possible choice.

As far as Donner's Superman goes, his Zod wasn't about destroying the planet, but more for personal revenge.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:13 PM   #384
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

as i said in the complaints thread, i could see that as something a younger clark would do just coming into his own. at 33 i think he should have known better. if he was strong enough to break his neck he should have been strong enough to just pull him away. i loved the movie, but they pretty much over did it with that.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:15 PM   #385
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Goyer is also the man who wrote the story in the comics where Superman renounced his American citizenship.

This is a man who hates what Superman is and he has been given control over the character.
boycott goyer.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:21 PM   #386
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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It's not that he let his anger control him its that he's not able to fight Zod and save people at the same time. I'm not sure why you think this Superman fights with his fist and is only controlled by anger. Lois herself says that Clark won't be able to stop saving people. He took jobs in the middle of nowhere to get away from people so he wouldn't risk revealing himself because his father died for that. He didn't spend 20 years of his life searching for his home. He only heard about the scout ship a couple weeks before Zod's invasion.
Exactly. When the younger Clark was getting picked on by bullies, his father told him he didn't want him to fight not because of his strength, because that's not the man he was raising him to be. When he let that anger come out, it was all over the place.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:25 PM   #387
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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It's not that he let his anger control him its that he's not able to fight Zod and save people at the same time. I'm not sure why you think this Superman fights with his fist and is only controlled by anger. Lois herself says that Clark won't be able to stop saving people. He took jobs in the middle of nowhere to get away from people so he wouldn't risk revealing himself because his father died for that. He didn't spend 20 years of his life searching for his home. He only heard about the scout ship a couple weeks before Zod's invasion.
But his mental quest was to find out about his home ever since he found out that he is from another planet. It is implied that the reason why he went on that fishing boat was to travel closer to that beacon that the government picked up...and then get a job working near that beacon.

Oh...and he was punching saying something like "don't threaten my mother" or whatever...he was angry...and fought out of anger...and mostly didn't bother to save people until the fight was over (and the movie didnt show him saving anyone then either). This movie was more interested in showing Superman the fighter rather than Superman the hero

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:26 PM   #388
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I did find it ironic how even batman as dark as he was depicted in the nolan series never came to a point where he actually killed anyone with own hands directly.

I have to feel that was some sort of statement but i'm not sure from whom? Snyder? Nolan? Goyer?

I have to agree with this. A point is made in those Batman films that regardless he wouldn't kill. The line he says to Ras Al gul, "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you" speaks volumes about their "take" on Batman. It's in the movie for a reason. So yeah I get from an "in story" perspective that it makes sense why he does what he does. But from a writing stand point...it really doesn't. Unless there is some serious follow-up in the next film about guilt and remorse etc then it just seemed unnecessary to specifically write Superman into a corner where he is forced to kill...then in the follow up scenes he seems back to his normal self Found that odd.

As far as writing goes, why not just have Zod sucked back into the Zone with the rest of them? Did people really find it so much more satisfiying to see Superman
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
snap his neck with his bear hands than simply have him disappear with rest of his crew
? Again we're not talking "in story logic" but writing here. For me it just felt like the wanted people to see just how bad@$$ Superman can be. "OOooo he
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
broke that dude's neck
" i even had people cheer in the audience I was in. Give me a break people.

You essentially have a guy who's never been in war, in fights, and certainly never killed anyone or anything. Then he has to
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
snap someone's neck
. That had better haunt him till the day he dies. I think a line from the film unforgiven says it best

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:28 PM   #389
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

I really don't understand the complaint that he "isn't saving lives" during the movie. Or "caring about people getting hurt".
In Smallville he is being pounded by two opponents. First breather he gets, he saves the falling soldier. Second breather, he rams Faora as she is about to "reward" her opponent.

In Metropolis, a big machine is tearing the planet apart, and people want Kal to fly around catching people and rescuing kittens? And what, just let the machine carry on while he does some PR work and smiles for the camera? He has to focus on the cause of the destruction, not the consequences of it.

This movie shows us a Superman faced with tough choices, where there's not always the obvious "correct answer". Where even the right choice has its downside. And I actually think he makes the right choices along the way.

The snap really hit me hard. I saw it coming but tried desperatly to convince myself that it wasn't going to happen. When it did, it made me sick for a couple of seconds... I don't know how to explain how I felt at that moment, but I physically felt that all the way to my stomach. And I'm so glad about Kals reaction. If that had'nt been in there, I think I would have left the theater in tears. As a grown man, that would have been kind of embarrasing ;-)
After having seen the movie twice now and having thought A LOT about that ending, I actually think I'm ok with it now. Not thrilled, but I accept it, as I convince myself that this moment will help shape Superman in the movies to come.
And if this is the moment that forms the no-kill rule, I think it could play an awsome part in a fight with Doomsday for example...

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:30 PM   #390
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Ah, the "you aren't a true fan" card. We just love that around here.
It's hard to say "I'm a true fan of Superman, I just don't like how he is like a boy scout and doesn't kill and so perfectly good." It rings hollow. It'd be like me saying "I'm a true Spider-Man fan, I just don't like that he shoots webs, sticks to walls and cracks jokes while he fights."

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #391
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I really don't understand the complaint that he "isn't saving lives" during the movie. Or "caring about people getting hurt".
In Smallville he is being pounded by two opponents. First breather he gets, he saves the falling soldier. Second breather, he rams Faora as she is about to "reward" her opponent.

In Metropolis, a big machine is tearing the planet apart, and people want Kal to fly around catching people and rescuing kittens? And what, just let the machine carry on while he does some PR work and smiles for the camera? He has to focus on the cause of the destruction, not the consequences of it.

This movie shows us a Superman faced with tough choices, where there's not always the obvious "correct answer". Where even the right choice has its downside. And I actually think he makes the right choices along the way.

The snap really hit me hard. I saw it coming but tried desperatly to convince myself that it wasn't going to happen. When it did, it made me sick for a couple of seconds... I don't know how to explain how I felt at that moment, but I physically felt that all the way to my stomach. And I'm so glad about Kals reaction. If that had'nt been in there, I think I would have left the theater in tears. As a grown man, that would have been kind of embarrasing ;-)
After having seen the movie twice now and having thought A LOT about that ending, I actually think I'm ok with it now. Not thrilled, but I accept it, as I convince myself that this moment will help shape Superman in the movies to come.
And if this is the moment that forms the no-kill rule, I think it could play an awsome part in a fight with Doomsday for example...
Yes, this moment may very well shape him. Others, like myself, believe that his upbringing from the Kents SHOULD have done what you needed a neck snap death to accept.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:35 PM   #392
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

"hey I won't punch this jerk in this bar cause I'm a good person"
*gets out of the bar, destroys truck in a pretty jerkish way*

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #393
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I have to agree with this. A point is made in those Batman films that regardless he wouldn't kill. The line he says to Ras Al gul, "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you" speaks volumes about their "take" on Batman. It's in the movie for a reason. So yeah I get from an "in story" perspective that it makes sense why he does what he does. But from a writing stand point...it really doesn't. Unless there is some serious follow-up in the next film about guilt and remorse etc then it just seemed unnecessary to specifically write Superman into a corner where he is forced to kill...then in the follow up scenes he seems back to his normal self Found that odd.

As far as writing goes, why not just have Zod sucked back into the Zone with the rest of them? Did people really find it so much more satisfiying to see Superman
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
snap his neck with his bear hands than simply have him disappear with rest of his crew
? Again we're not talking "in story logic" but writing here. For me it just felt like the wanted people to see just how bad@$$ Superman can be. "OOooo he
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
broke that dude's neck
" i even had people cheer in the audience I was in. Give me a break people.

You essentially have a guy who's never been in war, in fights, and certainly never killed anyone or anything. Then he has to
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
snap someone's neck
. That had better haunt him till the day he dies. I think a line from the film unforgiven says it best
I don't think killing Zod should make him spend much time brooding, but a catalyst for him to not do it again. If it's ever addressed, he should say that he's moved on. Though if he spares a supervillain's life, he should say something like "it's different this time", or something like it.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:37 PM   #394
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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No I wasn't equating the two, as presented.

Superman's attitude is...not really childish...but definitely out of touch. That is a major issue he has with Wonder Woman. She sees him as out of touch and unable to make the difficult decisions. That's the thing...we as fans are SUPPOSED to take sides...do we believe that Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman are the best equipped to solve these issues? I'm not supposed to think that ALL of them would be the best choice. With Superman...I do not view him as cool...and that is fine. I am supposed to be in awe of him (but when his choice ends up being wrong and Wonder Woman is correct, I can point that out). I am a man of today...he is the man of tomorrow...I SHOULD conflict a bit with his choices.

That is why I say that Man of Steel has robbed a potential cinematic Wonder Woman of her proper role (and therefore, I'd bet that the on screen Wonder Woman will likely be more for sex appeal...and may even refuse to kill).

And again...I would love to see a story where it shows that Superman has tried everything and has no other choice...I'd love to see that conflict within him. I don't think it is proper to do in the first film, and I don't think that he was properly placed in that truly no-win situation, since they had never sown him actually win any no-win situations.
Don't see how this has been broken yet.
Superman having a problem killing but doing so when there is no other option vs Wonderwoman killing when she deems it necessary. Thought that was the way it's always been.

Speaking of which, there are no such debates in the MCU and things seem to be working there. Doesn't seem like that big a deal to everyone.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:38 PM   #395
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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"hey I won't punch this jerk in this bar cause I'm a good person"
*gets out of the bar, destroys truck in a pretty jerkish way*
This is an early Clark. I wouldn't WANT him to be perfect ALL the time, just 80 percent of it

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:39 PM   #396
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Yes, this moment may very well shape him. Others, like myself, believe that his upbringing from the Kents SHOULD have done what you needed a neck snap death to accept.
I got that from the first 20 times you wrote it in this thread. I also get that you are very upset about the whole thing, and that's fine.
But please don't talk down to me just because it hasn't totally ruined the franchise for me.

You are preaching your opinion on how this should have been done, but that doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong for having their opinions.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #397
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Don't see how this has been broken yet.
Superman having a problem killing but doing so when there is no other option vs Wonderwoman killing when she deems it necessary. Thought that was the way it's always been.

Speaking of which, there are no such debates in the MCU and things seem to be working there. Doesn't seem like that big a deal to everyone.
Yeah, go to CBM. Most fans don't really care. Like the general consensus, it's not what he did, but the fact that he HAD to. As for the throw him through a moon suggestion, that MIGHT kill Zod, and it's VERY silver-agey!

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #398
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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"hey I won't punch this jerk in this bar cause I'm a good person"
*gets out of the bar, destroys truck in a pretty jerkish way*
Right...and not only that...but the driver likely didn't own that truck (they often do, but there's no way Clark could know) and Clark used public property to destroy the truck, looked like power lines if I recall...so taxpayers had to pay to fix it...and what if someone lost power who was on oxygen or something? Clark is a petty, angry, selfish man in this...which again...is why I believe that he screamed after killed Zod for selfish reasons.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #399
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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This is what I posted in another thread:
What exactly makes you think Supes was happy? Was it dropping to his knees and screaming? Or was it crumbling into Lois' arms in obvious grief?

I have no problem with the Zod scene. Zod didn't give him a choice. I did, however, think that most of the fighting up to that point was pretty reckless on Supes' part. Smashing through buildings and gas stations without any regard for human life - that's more troubling from a moral perspective. But Zod? Didn't bother me one bit.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:41 PM   #400
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I got that from the first 20 times you wrote it in this thread. I also get that you are very upset about the whole thing, and that's fine.
But please don't talk down to me just because it hasn't totally ruined the franchise for me.

You are preaching your opinion on how this should have been done, but that doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong for having their opinions.
WRONG

I want it to be SUPERMAN. You like that it went against everything Superman is.

If they had cast a black Superman, people would be losing their minds...but completely altering who he is as a man is being applauded.

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