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View Poll Results: "S" plastic shield vs broken neck.
"S" shield, cool new power designed to kill powerless enemies. 7 6.93%
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:58 PM   #551
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Well, not Movie Batman.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:00 PM   #552
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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You people are aware that Supes has killed before right? He's killed Zod Before. It's always been something that he does only if he has to. In the film, he was in that exact situation. I don't really see what the big deal is. Now Batman killing people, that's something to get your panties in an uproar over.
Yes, it has been covered at length.

Many stories preceded it showing that, because of his upbringing by the Kents, he was morally opposed to killing villains. Then, he killed Zod...then, YEARS of stories were written that showed how he realized that he did not have the right to make that decision, and he even exiled himself from earth because of it and he vowed to never do it again.

In this movie, we got NOTHING to establish his moral code (except that the Kents were giving him the WRONG morals and he was resisting it). Then he killed...and we have NO WAY OF KNOWING whether or not he was distraught because he killed or if he was distraught for another reason. Thematically in the film, he was possibly reacting to the fact that he lost his last connections to Krypton (since that was an overarching story, and the value of life was never stressed). Then, he cracked some jokes with the military.

It's all in how it's handled.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:01 PM   #553
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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You people are aware that Supes has killed before right? He's killed Zod Before. It's always been something that he does only if he has to. In the film, he was in that exact situation. I don't really see what the big deal is. Now Batman killing people, that's something to get your panties in an uproar over.
That's the thing - he's not only killed before, he's killed the same character in the movies before. Then Lois killed someone and it was played for laughs ("You know something? You're a real pain in the neck!" -PUNCH!!).

It was more brutal in this movie, but I don't see where Superman had a choice. And it wasn't just about him having to decide whether or not to save that family, it was him deciding between one world or another. He anguished over killing Zod.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:02 PM   #554
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Yes, it has been covered at length.

Many stories preceded it showing that, because of his upbringing by the Kents, he was morally opposed to killing villains. Then, he killed Zod...then, YEARS of stories were written that showed how he realized that he did not have the right to make that decision, and he even exiled himself from earth because of it and he vowed to never do it again.

In this movie, we got NOTHING to establish his moral code (except that the Kents were giving him the WRONG morals and he was resisting it). Then he killed...and we have NO WAY OF KNOWING whether or not he was distraught because he killed or if he was distraught for another reason. Thematically in the film, he was possibly reacting to the fact that he lost his last connections to Krypton (since that was an overarching story, and the value of life was never stressed). Then, he cracked some jokes with the military.

It's all in how it's handled.



So that howl after the deed didn't convey that for you? Or that bit with the trucker, or the bully?

Or did you, like....miss that?

I know most people don't really get Subtext but, that's subtext.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:07 PM   #555
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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So that howl after the deed didn't convey that for you? Or that bit with the trucker, or the bully?

Or did you, like....miss that?
No, because movies have themes...this movie repeatedly went back to the theme of Clark feeling like a man without a home, desperate to find out about his birthplace. That theme ran through the entire movie...until ultimately, he destroyed all of the embryos of Krytptonians on the ship...and with them he destroyed his connection to his biological father/hologram...AND any kind of info about his homeland or culture...AND he killed the other last of his kind.

The movie made no mention of life being important...and in fact repeatedly mentioned that maybe life ISNT that important and we should let people die.

So...either he cried out because of the first thing...or the writers had him cry out for the second thing, hoping that your connection to other Superman stories would give you some background on why you should care.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:08 PM   #556
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Ya huh.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:08 PM   #557
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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In this movie, we got NOTHING to establish his moral code (except that the Kents were giving him the WRONG morals and he was resisting it). Then he killed...and we have NO WAY OF KNOWING whether or not he was distraught because he killed or if he was distraught for another reason. Thematically in the film, he was possibly reacting to the fact that he lost his last connections to Krypton (since that was an overarching story, and the value of life was never stressed). Then, he cracked some jokes with the military.

It's all in how it's handled.
Jeez...talk about grasping at straws.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:19 PM   #558
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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That's the thing - he's not only killed before, he's killed the same character in the movies before. Then Lois killed someone and it was played for laughs ("You know something? You're a real pain in the neck!" -PUNCH!!).

It was more brutal in this movie, but I don't see where Superman had a choice. And it wasn't just about him having to decide whether or not to save that family, it was him deciding between one world or another. He anguished over killing Zod.
Not to mention this is literally his first time out as supes and is a part of his growth as a character in discovering his code. For all we know this is something that informs that view. Something a young supes does not knowing what else to do that he regrets and decides its not something he disagrees with. People might disagree with the execution, but conceptually, its very strong.

But people saying he should have been more brooding about it after, I just don't agree with. In the small snippets we get in the rest of the film, its just not called for.


About the Kents, they actually are great parents in that they let him decide for himself, while pushing him in the direction of being a good person. Ultimately the decision is his own, and the film reflects that, letting him make mistakes and not being a flawless character. The film was hardly perfect with tons of pacing issues and never ending fights, but this was not something they got wrong imo.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:20 PM   #559
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

I'm starting to think he's a troll. I thought we already decided the theme was Clark trying to save lives while wondering if the world was to know the truth about him not that he was looking for who he was.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:22 PM   #560
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I'm starting to think he's a troll. I thought we already decided the theme was Clark trying to save lives while wondering if the world was to know the truth about him not that he was looking for who he was.
That was ALSO a theme...Clark rejecting the idiotic teachings of the Kent family to become a hero.

But he was ABSOLUTELY looking to connect with his homeland.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:31 PM   #561
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

And then he let his entire race die for good to save the little half monkeys.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #562
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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And then he let his entire race die for good to save the little half monkeys.
YES!!!! He not only killed Zod...he destroyed his connection to his bioligical father and Kryptonian history and culture AND he killed a thousand Kryptonian fetuses!!! He chose humanity over the quest he had dedicated his life (and much of this movie) to...and that tore him apart.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:39 PM   #563
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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And then he let his entire race die for good to save the little half monkeys.
And that's why MOS is a great film. NOT because he kills Zod, but because he cares more about the people who misunderstand and do him wrong then his own kind who appreciates his power and respects his heritage.

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Old 06-16-2013, 11:52 PM   #564
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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And that's why MOS is a great film. NOT because he kills Zod, but because he cares more about the people who misunderstand and do him wrong then his own kind who appreciates his power and respects his heritage.

That's a great point.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:10 AM   #565
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Superman is more human than any of us could ever be.
That is like saying the Kents are far more or better parents than any of ours ever were.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:15 AM   #566
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Well, not really. If they appreciated his power, they woulda suffered through the pain of getting used to Earth's atmosphere for a few months so they could done what he does all the time instead of trying to transform the Earth into Krypton....(which I suspect will be pointed out in the next How It Should Have Ended to hilarious results. )

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:17 AM   #567
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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You people are aware that Supes has killed before right? He's killed Zod Before. It's always been something that he does only if he has to. In the film, he was in that exact situation. I don't really see what the big deal is. Now Batman killing people, that's something to get your panties in an uproar over.
And didn't people complain then too? The one in the comics is actually worse than MOS since Superman won and Zod was powerless...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


And as far as the films go, Zod was supposed to be shown getting arrested...

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:18 AM   #568
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

The only necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing... -edmund burke..

Supes did it right.. he begged zod... Zod was DESIGNED for this... Zod said... either you die or I die... after seeing to what lengths zod went to (killing innocents just to spite superman) well, you see why he had no choice.

One thing is killing to ensure the survival of your own and the other is to just have a psychopath with god-like powers roam free just because he can't do what it was needed of him.... It's a tough choice and a choice he made, a lot of character it took....

Zod did NOT extend the same courtesy to Jor-El even after jor-el didn't pose life threat to Zod... which means, he would have done so. Killing just in spite... Supes asked/begged..... he snapped (pun intended).

His dead father (at the hands of zod) actually told him... you can save ALL OF THEM... not MOST of them. Zod killing just one was not acceptable.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:18 AM   #569
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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That is like saying the Kents are far more or better parents than any of ours ever were.
THEY WERE!!!! That is the point of Superman! His Kryptonian parents gave him the biology to have great physical powers here on earth...but his human parents gave him the moral code and an unmatched goodness that led him to be considered the Man of Tomorrow...a man that the rest of us aspire to be. Not just his strength, but his goodness inspires awe and hope in all of us. This wonderful couple from Smallville knew what they were dealing with...and worked to make Clark the very best human he could be. This combination of Kryptonian birth and the "perfect" upbringing gave us the best hero in the universe. Maybe not the coolest (he is seen as an outdated boy scout, after all), but the best.


This movie took that Kent part away, robbing him of much of what makes him so unique among superheroes.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:19 AM   #570
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Well, not really. If they appreciated his power, they woulda suffered through the pain of getting used to Earth's atmosphere for a few months so they could done what he does all the time instead of trying to transform the Earth into Krypton....(which I suspect will be pointed out in the next How It Should Have Ended to hilarious results. )
Zod's "engineering" was to save his race/krypton, not to rule the humans.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:20 AM   #571
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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THEY WERE!!!! That is the point of Superman! His Kryptonian parents gave him the biology to have great physical powers here on earth...but his human parents gave him the moral code and an unmatched goodness that led him to be considered the Man of Tomorrow...a man that the rest of us aspire to be. Not just his strength, but his goodness inspires awe and hope in all of us. This wonderful couple from Smallville knew what they were dealing with...and worked to make Clark the very best human he could be. This combination of Kryptonian birth and the "perfect" upbringing gave us the best hero in the universe. Maybe not the coolest (he is seen as an outdated boy scout, after all), but the best.


This movie took that Kent part away, robbing him of much of what makes him so unique among superheroes.
Those particular human parents.

Humans, by and large are douche bags.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:23 AM   #572
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Zod's "engineering" was to save his race/krypton, not to rule the humans.

Who said anything about ruling humans?

They were gonna kill the humans, unnecessarily even, by changing the atmosphere to that of Krypton. When all they had to do was just wait, and actually make his race stronger as a result.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:31 AM   #573
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Who said anything about ruling humans?

They were gonna kill the humans, unnecessarily even, by changing the atmosphere to that of Krypton. When all they had to do was just wait, and actually make his race stronger as a result.
Or go next door to Mars and terraform that planet, giving Superman the best of both worlds...

...and lets face it...accidentally killing the Martians we said weren't there, leaving only one remaining.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:33 AM   #574
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Yeah, but the Martian's woulda kicked their asses.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:42 AM   #575
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

I love this scene strictly because there was no cop-out happening. There was 100% resolution. Superman had to put Zod down like the loose wild animal he had become.

Not everyone liked it....but, it was definitive. Credit to the writers for not having Supes fly away and not have to make such a devastating choice. THAT would have been too easy imo.

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