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Old 06-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #76
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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No because he didnt kill him
There exists a cut overseas where the three kryptonian criminals And Luthor were turned over to the police .
And yet that wasn't the final cut of the movie. In the movie he unnecessarily crushes a depowered Zod's hand, then kills him by throwing him off a cliff into a massive pit. We see him fall a considerable distance, then hear his voice echo as he continues to fall. Then we never see him again.


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Old 06-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #77
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

It's quite obvious that MoS will make enough money to get a sequel. Apart from that the box office means even less than reviews in my view.

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Old 06-17-2013, 11:57 AM   #78
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

My Review of MOS.

Saw it in IMAX 3-D Saturday, was freaken AWESOME! Some points I liked and disliked were.

1. The music, I was critical a bit of the score but hearing it with the film brought out its best. Will not replace the John Williams score for me, but in regards to "This Superman Film" it was awesome and the Williams score would not fit with this film.

2. The costume, I did enjoy it still wish the S was on the cape but B+ overall from me, I wished the costume was a bit lighter in some scenes, however it those scenes with more light you can really see the Red on the cape pop. I would work on the blue a bit for the sequel

3. The Story I though was good, seemed like a mix of big screen Smallville with something new so I enjoyed it.

4. Ending was not a fan at first but after a day I though, the reason why he "freaks" after wards is because he did not want to do what he did but did not have any choice so he feels bad.

5. Zod and Co were awesome, actually thought Faora was a better bad guy lol.

6. The pace of the movie I though they sorta "rushed" him becoming Superman but liked how they did flashbacks instead of a complete origin again.

7. Lois I though was okay, really wasnt feeling the chemistry with her and Superman I did feel like that could have been done better.

8. Was a bit tired of Superman screaming all the time when he was flying in some scenes, thought he was going to pop something lol

Overall great film, 7.5 out of 10, was not perfect but hey what Superman film is. Will say that Cavill is now my second favorite actor to dawn the Superman tights after Reeve. Welling has been pushed down to three lol.

Out of the Superman films I rank them as followed:

1. Superman The Movie
2. Man of Steel
3. Superman 2/Donner Cut
4. Superman Returns
5. Superman 4
6. Superman 3
7. Supergirl (Yeah I know lol, not really a part)

Oh can someone answer two questions for me on the film the action was so crazy I did not catch it.

1. Who was the "cameo" from a famous Superman actor?
2. Was a Reeve cameo as Clark CGI'd in there?


Thanks!!!

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:04 PM   #79
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

This review COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY gets the climax of the picture. http://mattrisnes.blogspot.com/2013/...-of-steel.html

 
Old 06-17-2013, 12:08 PM   #80
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If you think about it, Reeve's Superman only killed one person...

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
Well that's not MY Superman, because Superman NEVER kills ANYONE no matter the circumstance!


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Old 06-17-2013, 12:12 PM   #81
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Well that's not MY Superman, because Superman NEVER kills ANYONE no matter the circumstance!

Does make you wonder if it was supposed to be some psychological battle given how Clark just appears out of nowhere, kills evil Superman, who disappears, and then regular Superman emerges.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #82
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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I'm just talking about him coming to the realization that he can use his powers to help without anyone telling him to do it or talk about destiny. I thought Smallville handled it in a pretty crappy way. MOS was similar, but not as bad.

Also, I'm not too much of a fan of a super interactive AI. I liked how STAS did it by just having Jor-El (and Lara) tell him what happened and that they hoped things turned out well for him.
Ah okay. Yeah, one of the things I didn't like about the show, and though was weird in the movie was the talk about destiny. In Smallville, it was like the characters all knew the ending, as did the viewers, so they would always make references to things that we know will happen, but they should, and its like the writers wanted to throw in clever jokes and nod. And in the movie, they sort of do it to, with the talk of Clark's purpose being to save the world, which sort of contradicts what Jor-El's hope was at the start of the film, which was for Clark to be free to choice what he wants to do. But that element of choice was never really addressed with Clark, other than his desire to save people.

As for the AI, I kinda interpreted that as an opening for Brainiac to be introduced, so it didn't bother me too much.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:20 PM   #83
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

While I found their take on Pa Kent to be a little odd, ultimately I don't think his caution was unwarranted.

Really what it comes down to is a kind of reverse "To Kill a Mocking Bird" situation. In To Kill a Mocking Bird, Atticus Finch has to back down somewhat from the ideal of a whole and transparent truth because exposing Boo Radley would be a severe disservice to him.

While Pa Kent certainly recognizes the good that Clark can do, not to mention saving his life, he believes that at that point in time, exposing Clark's true nature and abilities would not just be a great disservice to Clark, but likely to the entire world.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:21 PM   #84
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Originally Posted by J.Howlett View Post
This review COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY gets the climax of the picture. http://mattrisnes.blogspot.com/2013/...-of-steel.html
The 911 parallels ring true for me here as they did in TDK, personally. From the ultimatums of surrender to the continual threats to the attacks and ground zero to the equal measure response to the symbol of morally and justice and truth having to make tough decisions and somehow retain it's moral standing and optimism.

That's that I see anyways.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:22 PM   #85
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Does make you wonder if it was supposed to be some psychological battle given how Clark just appears out of nowhere, kills evil Superman, who disappears, and then regular Superman emerges.
Superman wouldn't even kill someone psychologically. He wouldn't kill ANYONE under ANY circumstances.




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Old 06-17-2013, 12:22 PM   #86
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Ah okay. Yeah, one of the things I didn't like about the show, and though was weird in the movie was the talk about destiny. In Smallville, it was like the characters all knew the ending, as did the viewers, so they would always make references to things that we know will happen, but they should, and its like the writers wanted to throw in clever jokes and nod. And in the movie, they sort of do it to, with the talk of Clark's purpose being to save the world, which sort of contradicts what Jor-El's hope was at the start of the film, which was for Clark to be free to choice what he wants to do. But that element of choice was never really addressed with Clark, other than his desire to save people.

As for the AI, I kinda interpreted that as an opening for Brainiac to be introduced, so it didn't bother me too much.
There was also that nonsense of Clark ruling the world, which I don't think the writers planned to really give a good explanation for except to have Jor-El change his tune for whatever plot they wanted.

So, pretty much both Jor-El and Pa Kent were sending mixed messages in this film. Now I'll the destruction Clark caused as a symbol of what his fathers said.

How do you see it as an opening for Brainiac?

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:23 PM   #87
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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While I found their take on Pa Kent to be a little odd, ultimately I don't think his caution was unwarranted.

Really what it comes down to is a kind of reverse "To Kill a Mocking Bird" situation. In To Kill a Mocking Bird, Atticus Finch has to back down somewhat from the ideal of a whole and transparent truth because exposing Boo Radley would be a severe disservice to him.

While Pa Kent certainly recognizes the good that Clark can do, not to mention saving his life, he believes that at that point in time, exposing Clark's true nature and abilities would not just be a great disservice to Clark, but likely to the entire world.
agreed.
I do think years of interpretations like Smalleville have programed the idea that it's simply an issue of a protective father and clarks well being..if not normal life.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:24 PM   #88
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Superman wouldn't even kill someone psychologically. He wouldn't kill ANYONE under ANY circumstances.

Sure he would, since it's essentially himself.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:27 PM   #89
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:27 PM   #90
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

Pa Kent is right though. Can you imagine the crap storm that would hit if we found out there was a really powerful alien living among us. The media flips out when Kim Kardashian has a kid. We go into like 2 weeks of discussion when a kid is shot in self defense and we attack the shooter even though all evidence points to the fact that it was self defense. Not too mention the paranoia from the fact he looks exactly like us. The government would take Clark and never let the Kents see him again. Overseas our enemies would start gearing up because we now have a god on our side. It would just be completely ridiculous. I absolutely love how they handled Johnathan in this movie because his attitude and his beliefs are so true and I think they're how any loving father would be in this situation.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #91
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

I have a question on how people perceived Lara and Jor-El. We know Jor-El said that they thought the future was in the ability to choose one's own destiny. And we know they had a natural birth. And we know that Jor-El warned the council not to harvest the planet's core the way they did and that it would lead to the destruction of the planet. But did they only choose to conceive a child after the council sealed the fate of Krypton? I think that the answer is "yes." Would they have even had a natural child if they didn't know Krypton was going to be destroyed? I don't think so, but my sister is less decided about that. They made a bold (heretical?) decision. I don't think they would have done it, otherwise, even if they didn't agree with the society as it was at the time.

I can't recall the specific wording, but it did seem to me that Jor-El was going to propose his plan to the Council right before Zod showed up? Opinions? Certainly the council knew what he had done during Zod's trial, but they didn't seem to are. Having a natural child might well not be illegal, but you'd think taking the codex would be. They have to know Lara is a part of that. Does it indicate after-the-fact approval by the council? Or is it just that one present is harmed by it, and they already know their planet is doomed, so why prosecute?

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:34 PM   #92
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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There was also that nonsense of Clark ruling the world, which I don't think the writers planned to really give a good explanation for except to have Jor-El change his tune for whatever plot they wanted.

So, pretty much both Jor-El and Pa Kent were sending mixed messages in this film. Now I'll the destruction Clark caused as a symbol of what his fathers said.

How do you see it as an opening for Brainiac?
Yeah, I think they just wanted to give Clark more a reason to stay away from his Kryptonian side. Again, I think the plan early on was to have Clark follow the Donnerverse and disappear for years while he becomes Superman in the Fortress, so they were always trying hold him back to postpone that ending until they finally said 'forget it' and changed it so that he could get his training in doses like it was school or something.

And speaking of the fathers in the film, I don't quite understand why Jor-El gave Clark a tool to recreate Krypton. I mean, I get that he wanted to give his people hope, but it seemed weird because it means that you would have a bunch of pod-born Kryptonians walking around Earth, but for what purpose? He criticized Zod for trying to declare which bloodlines should live, but he was sort of giving Clark that power.

And I admittedly don't know much about Brainiac other than that he was a creation of Jor-El's, and after seeing some of the Kryptonian tech in the movie, it reminded me of stuff I've seen in comics like Superman: Brainiac. So with the AI, I guess I kept asking myself "What happens when AI becomes self-aware and tries to take on a physical life of its own?"

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:36 PM   #93
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

I first saw the arctic police scene in the TV versions shown here in the US many years ago. I figured it had gotten cut from the theatrical version because even as a child I thought the idea of the "Arctic Police" was pretty silly....Yes, THATS what I thought was unbelievable in a Superman movie.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #94
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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The 911 parallels ring true for me here as they did in TDK, personally. From the ultimatums of surrender to the continual threats to the attacks and ground zero to the equal measure response to the symbol of morally and justice and truth having to make tough decisions and somehow retain it's moral standing and optimism.

That's that I see anyways.
I read somewhere that Nolan approaches Batman and Superman this way:
Batman is how the world sees America
Superman is how America sees itself

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #95
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Superman wouldn't even kill someone psychologically. He wouldn't kill ANYONE under ANY circumstances.



He killed Doomsday

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:49 PM   #96
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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He killed Doomsday
No I was just being sarcastic. Of course he's killed in the comics and movies before, and of course there are circumstances where it's necessary for him to kill. And when done right it can be very interesting, like in MOS.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:50 PM   #97
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Yeah, I think they just wanted to give Clark more a reason to stay away from his Kryptonian side. Again, I think the plan early on was to have Clark follow the Donnerverse and disappear for years while he becomes Superman in the Fortress, so they were always trying hold him back to postpone that ending until they finally said 'forget it' and changed it so that he could get his training in doses like it was school or something.

And speaking of the fathers in the film, I don't quite understand why Jor-El gave Clark a tool to recreate Krypton. I mean, I get that he wanted to give his people hope, but it seemed weird because it means that you would have a bunch of pod-born Kryptonians walking around Earth, but for what purpose? He criticized Zod for trying to declare which bloodlines should live, but he was sort of giving Clark that power.

And I admittedly don't know much about Brainiac other than that he was a creation of Jor-El's, and after seeing some of the Kryptonian tech in the movie, it reminded me of stuff I've seen in comics like Superman: Brainiac. So with the AI, I guess I kept asking myself "What happens when AI becomes self-aware and tries to take on a physical life of its own?"
I don't think they really had a plan beyond 4-5 seasons given how Season 4 pretty much could've been the end of the show if they really wanted to got the Donnerverse route. They also did take the idea from the young Bruce Wayne show someone else was planning to make and he had a plan. There was an interveiw where the producers expressed their excitement that everyone was of legal age so they could do certain things.

Well, Clark would need the Black Zero and whatever that Zod had to make a new Krypton. So, I didn't view it as Jor-El really giving him the tools do so. But, I guess Clark could've made more Kryptonians who would all end up like him under Earth's environment. Maybe Jor-El wouldn't have said anything about it. Maybe he wanted Clark to have children naturally who too would have the chance to choose their own lives.

Oh, I see. Well, the Kryptonian Brainiac is pretty much an idea made popular in STAS and used in Smallville. Generally speaking, he's an alien from a different planet. Since they didn't bring him up in the opening of the film, I never thought about him while watching it.

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He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:51 PM   #98
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

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Case closed end of story. Great article. Essentially, the entire point of the climax WAS the fate of the planet and Superman did what he had to do.*Bookmarks page*
This is my favorite part of the article...
Quote:
Yesterday, Entertainment Weekly wrote an article titled “What ‘Man of Steel’ gets wrong about Superman (hint: that ending).” The first thing you see is this image from Action Comics #583:
Quote:
Superman: Nobody has the right to kill. Not Mxyzptlk, not you, not Superman... Especially not Superman!
Using this as proof that Man of Steel is a failure because Superman kills is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because the panel happens right after he just killed someone. “I killed him Lois! I Intended to kill him!” Of course Superman “shouldn’t kill,” and nor does he want to. But the fact of the matter is that he has done it before, and he hates himself for it. Here is the entire page, with the aforementioned panel in context:
Here's the link again for those who missed it. http://www.reviewstl.com/man-of-stee...spoilers-0616/

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:56 PM   #99
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

He also gave up being Superman by getting rid of his powers after he did killed someone.

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He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #100
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - Part 86

So, listening to the Empire podcast with Snyder. The script had Superman banishing Zod to the Phantom Zone yet Snyder was adamant that Superman should kill him. Now you all know who to blame!

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