The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2013, 12:58 PM   #1
Arta
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 105
Cs Funny Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

OverthinkingIt podcast discussed this subject.
http://www.overthinkingit.com/2013/0...p-episode-259/
Krypton stuff starts at 20:12.

"General Zod's plan is to eradicate the bloodlines of those he finds responsible for Krypton's fate. Everyone else gets relocated to another planet.

Meanwhile Jor-el's plan kills everybody. And Zod is the villain. "

Arta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 01:02 PM   #2
ThePhantasm
The Shadow Knows
 
ThePhantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 10,551
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

I don't remember Zod saying he wanted to relocate / evacuate everyone, or that it was even possible...

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
ThePhantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 02:19 PM   #3
Noach
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 92
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

I know I heard something to the extent of Jor El's plans of invading earth and restoring Krypton by using his son. Did he say that he wanted to destroy the living things on earth as well? If so, cool.

Noach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 03:17 PM   #4
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Hrm....what?

1.) When did Jor-El ever mention the idea of invading Earth and restoring Krypton by using Kal-El? Just because he used the Codex on Kal, doesn't mean that was his intention. Most likely the only way to keep the Codex away from Zod. As well as Jor-El's plan is never to destroy everybody. He only stated that the Kryptonians' fate is with the planet since they wanted to mess with Krypton's core in the first place. Jor-El was at least going to give Kal-El hope with him being the first naturally-born Kryptonian in a long time.

2.) It's not stated Zod was going to eradicate those responsible and relocate the other Kryptonians to another planet. He wanted the Codex and rule with the future generation of Kryptonians, as well as wanting Jor-El to rule by his side as well.

I swear, some podcasts are worthless when they're only imagining the plots or what have you. That goes with TDKRises as well...more than half of the podcasts I heard regarding the film was towards plots that didn't even exist.

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 03:23 PM   #5
Spade
Cool and Chiseled
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wherever it's chillest.
Posts: 9,983
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

He gave Clark the codex so that someday he could continue their race. He doesn't say much about destructively terraforming an occupied planet in the process. It's kind of the whole reason why Zod and him don't see eye to eye on much. If that was his plan, he didn't send his son with the World Engines required for it.

Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 03:29 PM   #6
BH/HHH
Cavill's Hairychest
 
BH/HHH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Leeds
Posts: 14,839
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Jor El knows they're doomed that's why he decides its best to let the race live on by getting the codex away with his son.

Because the Kryptonian's gave up on space travel there isn't an escape route for them. I'm not even sure they thought the Phantom Zone was an option, when the Planet blew up it obviously caused a rift in the Zone allowing Zod & co to escape but reall that was a stroke of luck that they couldn't have even considered.

__________________
MAN OF STEEL


THE GREATEST COMIC BOOK MOVIE OF ALL-TIME
BH/HHH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 03:39 PM   #7
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Wait, wait, why are we saying that Jor-El wanted Kal-El to continue their race? The Codex is inside Kal....how could he continue the race with the Codex in his DNA? Better to just have faith that Kal finds a nice woman and populates that way.

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #8
Dork Knight
Newbie First Class
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Something I don't understand about Jor-El's plan. So the Codex contains all the genetic encoding that predetermines the functions and class of all the people on Krypton right? And Jor-El and Lara are against this idea and want people to have the ability to choose what they want to become. So then, why did Jor-El even bother to save the Codex? If Kal-El is to use the Codex to restore his people, wouldn't it just reinstitute the same system that predetermines people's fates?

Dork Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #9
Spade
Cool and Chiseled
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wherever it's chillest.
Posts: 9,983
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Wait, wait, why are we saying that Jor-El wanted Kal-El to continue their race? The Codex is inside Kal....how could he continue the race with the Codex in his DNA? Better to just have faith that Kal finds a nice woman and populates that way.
Their species colonized planets. Zod got the supplies for his invasion from those (dead) colonies. Jor-El knew about Earth because of that scout ship. If Zod and his crew could do it, it's not impossible that Superman would eventually take that same scout ship, scrounge up some birthing matrices from the colonies (that he didn't know Zod would eventually pillage), and do just that. A little farfetched? Sure, but Jor-El's whole plan to send his son to another planet in the hopes that nothing would go wrong along the way wasn't bulletproof to begin with, if you want to argue that angle. Zod almost blew the rocket to bits, for one.

As well, they look like humans...and coincidentally speak perfect Americanized English, despite having their own hieroglyphic alphabet...but they're not humans. In the comics, the prevailing notion is that Superman can't naturally breed with Earth's women. Most of the hybrids in Elseworld stories exploit some super-science caveat so that problem can have a loophole. Not in all of the stories (Kingdom Come's one), but most of them. So betting that Supes would do the McNasty with Lois and continue their race that way isn't completely sound, at least if they follow most comics on that thought.

Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 04:13 PM   #10
Tra-El
Side-Kick
 
Tra-El's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Trying to find out where I hang my cape? YOU WON'T
Posts: 2,573
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

The codex is the gene that holds the life preservatives of all Kryptonian life. Once the codex was placed inside Kal's body, the cells of the lifeforms were feeding off of Kal's bloodline.

The predetermined fate was set-up through Kryptonian-rule, which was why it was off-limits and downright criminal to try to retrieve the codex as kito (the robot) pointed out to Jor-EL. Jor claimed "It doesn't matter anymore, kito. The world's coming to an end."

Once Jor took the codex from the fusions of Krypton's pods that was preserving the predetermined lifeforms, it glowed red, which I took as being disconnected from the Kryptonic fusion.

If the day ever came, Jor-EL's plan was to place Krypton's race in Kal's hands and act as a bridge to let their society rule in freedom the way their ancestry did and share two worlds to become the force for good. Allow children the choice to be whoever they wanted to be and dream of becoming something greater...... as Kal-EL had the choice to do.

Quote:
If Zod and his crew could do it, it's not impossible that Superman would eventually take that same scout ship, scrounge up some birthing matrices from the colonies (that he didn't know Zod would eventually pillage), and do just that.
I agree with this. The World Engine split in 4's, so Kryptonian Technology still exists and billions of pieces should be shattered and felt all across the South Indian Oceans. At the end, Supes told the military he was from Kansas, so he isn't smashing Government drums if they are trying to find out his identity. They are trying to find out "where he hangs his cape" which means he has another Fortress somewhere unknown.

__________________
MOS theater count: 6

Last edited by Tra-El; 06-19-2013 at 04:23 PM.
Tra-El is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #11
ThePhantasm
The Shadow Knows
 
ThePhantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 10,551
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Wait, wait, why are we saying that Jor-El wanted Kal-El to continue their race? The Codex is inside Kal....how could he continue the race with the Codex in his DNA? Better to just have faith that Kal finds a nice woman and populates that way.
Jor-El says something in the movie about Kal being sent to grow up with humans so that one day Kryptonians and humans might live side by side. He also tells Zod that Kal is their future that he has held in his hands. I think if Kal wanted to resurrect Kryptonians he could extract the Codex from his blood somehow and get to work, but I think Kal has decided that "Krypton had its chance." Presumably without the genesis chamber in the scout ship (which Kal destroyed) the Codex is useless.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
ThePhantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #12
dru-zod2501
Side-Kick
 
dru-zod2501's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 752
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Jor-El was like the Kryptonian Professor X, he said he dreamed there would be a way for the two races to coexist. Zod was the Magneto who was all "screw humans, let the dominant species rule". Though, when you think about it, both plans seem flawed. Jor hid the Codex in Kal to restart Krypton later, but there's no indication that he knew of any Genesis Chambers present on Earth. Unless there's a plan in place for future sequels Jor's plan would've failed before it began.

Zod also said he wanted to start anew (maybe he meant on another world, it's not totally clear in dialogue) but he obviously couldn't since space travel was outlawed. Jor's plan almost accomplished Zod's goal for him. If they hadn't been so distrusting of each other, Kal maybe could've persuaded Zod to work together to find another world where they can terraform all they want and leave Earth in peace, Zod wouldn't have needed to kill Kal for the Codex and he wouldn't have to worry about having an asthma attack while mastering those sweet sweet superpowers.

dru-zod2501 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 05:20 PM   #13
dnno1
Side-Kick
 
dnno1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,607
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arta View Post
OverthinkingIt podcast discussed this subject.
http://www.overthinkingit.com/2013/0...p-episode-259/
Krypton stuff starts at 20:12.

"General Zod's plan is to eradicate the bloodlines of those he finds responsible for Krypton's fate. Everyone else gets relocated to another planet.

Meanwhile Jor-el's plan kills everybody. And Zod is the villain. "
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Zod's plan was to relocate as many people as possible to another planet and start anew, but without the bloodlines that caused the problems on Krypton in the first place. Jor-El's plan was similar only that he was to leave everyone on Krypton to die while his son would be the future. That issue that Jor-El had with Zod's plan was that the General would be the one to pick and choose who would live or die and El felt that this was part of the problem. By sending an innocent child out into the heavens with the hopes that one day, he would make that decision uninfluenced was a better plan. I will have to agree that it was a very complicated situation to deal with in the film, but in truth I would expect anyone in that position to not want to feel that way in real life.

__________________
Dno
dnno1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 06:53 PM   #14
Kahran Ramsus
Side-Kick
 
Kahran Ramsus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The Sunshine State
Posts: 4,703
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

I'm unclear on what Jor-El's plan actually was. He says a bunch of nice, fancy words about two worlds co-existing but he never goes into any detail with how that's actually supposed to happen. Crowe delivers it well, but it just seems like lazy writing.

I liked it better when Jor-El didn't leave Krypton because he was forbidden and unable to, not because he was some suicidal philosopher.

Kahran Ramsus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 06:56 PM   #15
death-lord
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 86
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

i am glad jor-l wasnt like in the donner films he would have came off as a cheesy godly figure something that should be avoided

death-lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 06:58 PM   #16
death-lord
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 86
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
Jor-El says something in the movie about Kal being sent to grow up with humans so that one day Kryptonians and humans might live side by side. He also tells Zod that Kal is their future that he has held in his hands. I think if Kal wanted to resurrect Kryptonians he could extract the Codex from his blood somehow and get to work, but I think Kal has decided that "Krypton had its chance." Presumably without the genesis chamber in the scout ship (which Kal destroyed) the Codex is useless.
to humans not to brainiac or jesus forbid darkseid who are capable of making geniesis devices this will be in my fanfiction

death-lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 07:45 PM   #17
TDK010
Join me in the sun
 
TDK010's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 380
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

As far as I remember Jor-El wanted Kal to be "the bridge" between the Kryptonians and humanity. ThePhantasm is right, by infusing the Codex into Kal's blood stream, they could one day potentially be brought back to co-exist with humans on Earth. I loved this particular part of the story and it added to the conflict Kal had with trying to find his purpose in life and with feeling a sense of belonging amongst humanity. This was arguably the most enjoyable thing I took away from the movie on that first showing. Really powerful stuff!

TDK010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 07:51 PM   #18
godisawesome
Side-Kick
 
godisawesome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,336
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Well, here's what I remember:

Jor-El first tries to convince the Council that a)Krypton will blow up, and b) they should voluntarily give him the codex. It's admitted that evacuating the entire planet is impossible and that Jor already intends to secure the Codex with his un-modified son. Other evidence hints the Kryptonians lack any serious space capabilities since the failure of their colonies.

Zod also desires to secure the codex, so he also believes the majority of Krypton is doomed, regardless of how quickly they can build ships. He desires to modify the codex and perfect it to remove the bureaucracy that has doomed Krypton. So he expects to at least have a few survivors take the codex and restart Krypton, and his dialogue implies he originally intended for that group to include Jor-El, possibly as the main scientist.

However, neither Jor-El or Zod are aware that there's already a scout ship on Earth. Kara's ship was hijacked off its original course, and Jor and Lara were searching the stars for a suitable landing place for their son at that moment, and despite the issues with Earth's atmosphere, it was the nearest match to their own. So Jor-El does not intend for Clark to be able to artificially create life at all, suggesting the codex must have some basic compatibility with organic life in some fashion in order to preserve Kryptonian DNA, since he was asking for it before Zod started his coup.

So both probably hoped for a few survivors with the Codex as a viable starting over point, but Zod wants to modify the old structure, while Jor-El wants nature to take its course.

Presumably, the Bow-Chicka-Wow-Wow course. He and Lara must have come to that conclusion after hours of *intensive* investigation.

__________________
“There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal."

-C.S. Lewis
godisawesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #19
death-lord
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 86
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

maybe im just speculating superman will have a kid again maybe thats the codexs other function maybe thats the bridge this "jason" for the lack of a better name would serve as a bridge

death-lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 08:15 PM   #20
Ultimatehero
Life is infinite
 
Ultimatehero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,473
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by death-lord View Post
maybe im just speculating superman will have a kid again maybe thats the codexs other function maybe thats the bridge this "jason" for the lack of a better name would serve as a bridge
That's kind of what it reminded me of. All these sperm seeds and etc. that we have floating within our own bodies to give to women or to make life. We're carrying lives within us to in that sense.

__________________
"If we are all united, we can take back our lives. While they stand divided, we can fight them and their laws. If we get up off our knees, we can show them that we are people. We can take back this "free" country! - Anti-Flag
Ultimatehero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 08:33 PM   #21
death-lord
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 86
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatehero View Post
That's kind of what it reminded me of. All these sperm seeds and etc. that we have floating within our own bodies to give to women or to make life. We're carrying lives within us to in that sense.
finally someone gets it

death-lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 10:10 PM   #22
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Their species colonized planets. Zod got the supplies for his invasion from those (dead) colonies. Jor-El knew about Earth because of that scout ship. If Zod and his crew could do it, it's not impossible that Superman would eventually take that same scout ship, scrounge up some birthing matrices from the colonies (that he didn't know Zod would eventually pillage), and do just that. A little farfetched? Sure, but Jor-El's whole plan to send his son to another planet in the hopes that nothing would go wrong along the way wasn't bulletproof to begin with, if you want to argue that angle. Zod almost blew the rocket to bits, for one.

As well, they look like humans...and coincidentally speak perfect Americanized English, despite having their own hieroglyphic alphabet...but they're not humans. In the comics, the prevailing notion is that Superman can't naturally breed with Earth's women. Most of the hybrids in Elseworld stories exploit some super-science caveat so that problem can have a loophole. Not in all of the stories (Kingdom Come's one), but most of them. So betting that Supes would do the McNasty with Lois and continue their race that way isn't completely sound, at least if they follow most comics on that thought.
It's not implausible to think Kal-El could do that, but I don't think he just would have, but I suppose Jor-El had the idea that Kal-El could use the Codex in his DNA, who knows. I certainly never thought that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
Jor-El says something in the movie about Kal being sent to grow up with humans so that one day Kryptonians and humans might live side by side. He also tells Zod that Kal is their future that he has held in his hands. I think if Kal wanted to resurrect Kryptonians he could extract the Codex from his blood somehow and get to work, but I think Kal has decided that "Krypton had its chance." Presumably without the genesis chamber in the scout ship (which Kal destroyed) the Codex is useless.
Oh yes! I forget about Jor-El saying that while in Zod's ship. But, I think it was only to just give Kal-El that choice if he wanted to or not, not necessarily a plan Jor-El had for his son to do. By the film's end, Kal-El acknowledges that Krypton has its chance, as you said.

I honestly think that blood they took from Kal-El could still be intact inside the Phantom Zone and could lead to the creation of Snyder's version of Bizarro.

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 10:16 PM   #23
death-lord
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 86
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

2 words
JASON RETURNS

death-lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 10:45 PM   #24
godisawesome
Side-Kick
 
godisawesome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,336
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
It's not implausible to think Kal-El could do that, but I don't think he just would have, but I suppose Jor-El had the idea that Kal-El could use the Codex in his DNA, who knows. I certainly never thought that.



Oh yes! I forget about Jor-El saying that while in Zod's ship. But, I think it was only to just give Kal-El that choice if he wanted to or not, not necessarily a plan Jor-El had for his son to do. By the film's end, Kal-El acknowledges that Krypton has its chance, as you said.

I honestly think that blood they took from Kal-El could still be intact inside the Phantom Zone and could lead to the creation of Snyder's version of Bizarro.
Of course, they also have this handy-dandy intact Kryptonian body lying around as well. Can you say hybrid clone?

If the Codex does turn out to be some kind of universal genetics key, you could blame Bizarro's destabilization on mixing an adaptive gene pool with a preprogrammed and degraded one.

And maybe Lex realizing this leads him to try with simpler hybrids between Kal's Codex DNA and human. And presto chango, the Manchurian Superboy can come into play.

__________________
“There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal."

-C.S. Lewis

Last edited by godisawesome; 06-19-2013 at 10:51 PM.
godisawesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 12:41 AM   #25
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Zod's plan vs Jor-el's plan.

Are you saying Superman's DNA will find its way out of the Phantom Zone for only Lex to use?

I was speculating on the DNA being reworked inside the Phantom Zone and that's how Bizarro evolves, from just a strand of DNA because we don't know how the Phantom Zone works...something as simple as that could be possible where ever the PZ is.

But speaking on Zod, yah, I do think Lex will do something with that body for sure...recently an interviewer brought that up to Goyer and he dodged the question.

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.