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Old 06-28-2013, 07:55 AM   #76
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

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Originally Posted by Turambar View Post
Ok for those of us striving for publication, who here actually HAS an agent? And if so, what can you tell us about getting one?

Oh and by "us" I mean "me", of course
Have you checked out the 2013 Guide to Literary Agents? New ones come out every year with updated articles and interviews that are designed to help writing hopefuls prepare their work for how an Agent wants to see it. It then lists TONS of agents separated into what categories they look for, how they want to receive them, etc.

While I've never even gotten an agent to look at my manuscripts, that book has been awesome toward preparing my manuscripts for them and knowing who to send them to.

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Old 06-28-2013, 08:08 AM   #77
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

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Originally Posted by Widowmaker View Post
I have a question, do you guys find it hard to write at home? I feel like my focus is stronger outside or in a new place compared to my apartment.
I can write pretty much anywhere, but it just has to be quiet. I can't write or edit while my kids have the TV blaring and my wife's talking about her day. It just doesn't work. I work best early in the morning after I'm showered but while everyone's still in bed (preferably while it's night).

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Originally Posted by Widowmaker
Oh man, that's terrible about the hard drive. For me it's the opposite I can plot out everything in a notebook or pad but on the PC my mind bounces. Thats why I always gave myself an extra week and 1/2 to type papers and it takes a week for me to start typing out scripts. When Im in a different place it's like I see nothing else but what Im writing. I guess its because Im in a place Im not familiar with.
I prefer taking notes with pen and paper, but I have to write the actual book on the computer. I need to type because I frequently change what I write as I write it, sentence after sentence, and I can't do that on paper without it being nothing but scribbles and arrows pointing to what's supposed to come next. I used to type up notes and ideas but I found I never bothered to open them and I'd move past when they'd be relevant and just delete them. But if I have notes in a notebook, I'll skim it every day.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatehero
If you're asking if you should follow Hollywood? No. Never do that. Those scripts never make it past the readers, they can see faking something from a mile away. I was there, I could easily sense when someone was trying to imitate. The most fascinating thing to read is the complete and utter thesis of you. You are beyond intriguing and that's what readers want to read. Basically, be you on the page and good things will follow from there.
This is pretty good advice for novel-writing as well. I've written stories that are just out of the blue, and they're good, but there isn't much heart about them. But when I include aspects of myself and things that really interest me, they go from good to great. I've included portions of myself into every book I've published so far and it shows. The changes made to From the Ruin of Extinction weren't only because I wanted to trim the fat, but because I realized I needed to stop trying to write "the next Lord of the Rings" and just write a story that was personal to me.

The biggest story that I can't wait to write is also the simplest. When There Should Be Two is a story of a man who struggles after his wife miscarries and them dealing with marital issues as a result. This is based on my own personal experiences from three years ago. My wife is only just now getting over her depression as a result of the miscarriage. Has it been done before? Absolutely? Do I care? No. The reason is that I'm writing this story for me. Not to be published and not to make money on it... for me. It can never be read by another individual and I wouldn't care. It's personal. Will I try to publish it? Probably. But I think my mindset while writing it will give it a better shot at publication than something I write trying to be the next Twilight or Harry Potter. I actually have a second story dealing with child loss, a paranormal story called To Life Again that I'm eager to get to for the same reasons. A man works in a building that is "haunted" and he befriends a young ghost girl. Then he begins to reason... "What if this is the second chance with the daughter I never knew?" The two ideas were merged at one point but I feel each story is strong enough on their own and hits different audiences, so I separated them

Personal stories that include pieces of yourself bring out true emotion, not forced emotion. And you will poor more into it BECAUSE it's personal and means more to you. The end result will show this every time.

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Old 06-28-2013, 08:15 AM   #78
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

Oh, and my cover guy came over and made some corrections on the paperback cover for From the Ruin of Extinction, so hopefully the next proof will look good and I can start selling paperbacks!

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Old 06-28-2013, 10:19 AM   #79
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I've got Sarkun's origin down:

A monk turned mercenary that uses the 19 Year War on Norskavia as a vehicle to experiment with shamanism and sorcery. The victims--or "villains", as he insists his employers refer to them--are his experimental subjects. The "villains'" violent deaths are essential for Sarkun's attempts to create a synthesis of sorcery and warlock magic. This brand of magic is fueled by the hormones released from the human body when it is under extreme stress or duress. The viscera of the "villains'" are the requisite offerings for the Vikaidrun that Sarkun bargains with. None of this bothers Sarkun--the people that he subjects to his experiments are brutes using the 19 Year War as an excuse to engage in theft, rape, and all manner of gluttony. Sarkun considers himself a hero, as do many others in Norskavia subjected to the depredations of war.

Now, does this other character seem to overlap with Sarkun?

Brynja Kadevri:

Brynja Kadevri worked on the security team in the mines of the Thunder Cauldron Broodlords. The mining city experienced a wave of murders in which each victim's bloodstream was filled with a foreign substance. A series of abductions hits the mining town a year after the beginning of the murders. Brynja's investigation leads her to a gruesome scene at the borderlands of the Thunder Cauldron and Ashbark Cauldron: a pulsating construct of lymph nodes and curing rooms full of the skins of the adult murder victims. Constructs of flesh, bone, and fungus send Brynja fleeing from the scene. A follow-up investigation reveals that the missing children have been brainwashed and had their vocal cords surgically modified to produce a pleasing sound.

Brynja learns that the Thunder Cauldron's Broodlords have struck a deal with the Elves--children to undergo the surgical process that gives birth to Elves. The Broodlords hope to barter the freshly made Elves to the weaponsmiths of Savakref.
Brynja uses the brutality of the Broodlords' deed to stir up a bloody revolution against the Broodlords. While Brynja's critics believe that she has become a blood-thirsty tyrant, Brynja believes that brutes and their regime should be disposed of like brutes. In the aftermath, Brynja establishes a convenant with the Vikaidrun living in the northern lands of Kurga. Thus Brynja rises to the rank of Broodlord through her revolution.

In the aftermath, a resistance against Brynja's dealings with the Vikaidrun results in another revolution. The new revolution is headed by human spellcasters from Kurga who believe that Brynja has become a worse monster than the old Broodlords. Brynja's attempt to suppress the revolution and mitigate the bloodshed fails--she effectively sets off the magical equivalent of a nuclear warhead, leaving the Thunder Cauldron a magically irradiated wasteland.

The event shakes Brynja's resolve. Her nightly meditations bring her to a land where she encounters the twisted ghosts of the Thunder Cauldron's inhabitants. Brynja battles the ghosts and promises them a place in the cycle of Rebirth and Decay. Thus, Brynja seeks training as a physician. Her work brings her into contact with all manner of terminally ill individuals; each encounter presents Brynja with a vessel for the twisted ghosts of those who died by her hand in the Thunder Cauldron Massacre. Eventually Brynja begins to question her dedication to the Great Cycle: it seems as if she's been violating that Cycle by wresting away the consciousness (or souls if you rather) or the terminally ill and leaving the bodies for the ghosts of her victims.

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Old 06-28-2013, 10:41 AM   #80
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

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Have you checked out the 2013 Guide to Literary Agents? New ones come out every year with updated articles and interviews that are designed to help writing hopefuls prepare their work for how an Agent wants to see it. It then lists TONS of agents separated into what categories they look for, how they want to receive them, etc.

While I've never even gotten an agent to look at my manuscripts, that book has been awesome toward preparing my manuscripts for them and knowing who to send them to.
I check out the New Agency Alerts on Writer's Digest everyday

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Old 06-28-2013, 01:05 PM   #81
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Ok, so I sent a query to Brian DeFiore, and I have to share it with you guys so I can get your thoughts. I think this might be my best query yet.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Dear Mr. DeFiore,

Since I have no prior publishing credentials, I will keep this query to the point. I am a debut author, and the novel I have for you is a completed 75,000-word Young Adult epic fantasy horror/adventure, Mathion: Legacy of the Wolven - Book One, the first in a planned series.

I am a proud child of the '90s, and grew up on a healthy literary diet of R. L. Stine's Goosebumps and K. A. Applegate's Animorphs, two series which continue to influence me in my writing today. I also have a fondness for authors such as Edgar Rice Burroughs, Robert E. Jordan, Robert Louis Stevenson, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. But it wasn't until high school, when I came across J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings that I became enthralled by fantasy, and at the age of eighteen, combining my love of history and mythology with my love of storytelling, I finally began work on the first book of what I undoubtedly believe will be my magnum opus.

Mathion is a book that honors the classic format of fantasy literature but eschews the traditional template, forsaking elves, dwarves, and orcs for races of werewolves and werewolf hunters, creating a story that is fresh yet familiar. Incorporating elements of werewolf folklore and Atlantis mythology, and reimagining both so as to give them one cohesive origin, with a hero as mythic as he is relatable, and a villain who's evil readers will relish. A tall order, to be sure, but overall I believe that I have written something worthwhile, and worth the read. I pride my work on its simultaneous accessibility and complexity of scope, worldbuilding and repurposed mythology, with a heavy dose of action and gore (we're dealing with werewolves after all) and just enough romance, and I know exactly the kind of reader I want to attract. I will finish by saying simply this, and I say it as plain fact: Twilight has had its time, and now it's the boys' turn to have their literary fun.

At the age of seven the Wolven prince Mathion encounters a dying White Wolf, and is unwittingly entrusted with an ancient artifact of immense power. But when the Werewolves of Kânavad finally discover the artifacts hiding place a sequence of events is set in motion that will force Mathion, now a young and formidable warrior of fierce skill and renown, to choose between his uncompromising honor and rekindling a millennia-spanning conflict, the tides of which can change with each choice he makes. Here allies must be kept as close as possible, and one false move could condemn everything they hold dear, for the power that Mathion holds could indeed hold the key to his people's salvation, or unlock their ultimate destruction. Witness the epic beginnings of Atlantis mythology and Werewolf folklore, as the grand tragedy of an ancient civilization's cataclysmic end is reimagined in a bold new way, unfolding in an age of blood and valor before monsters and shapeshifters needed the darkness.

Below, as per your agency's guidelines, I have included the first five pages of Mathion for your reading pleasure (I must confess that the sample is actually five and a half pages; I wanted to find the perfect cliffhanger stopping point for this particular sample). The full manuscript is available upon request, and its direct sequel, Reclamation, is already complete (the two books in reality being two halves of a single novel) and the third book, The Last Ascension, is currently in progress. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,
Jeff Shanley

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Old 06-28-2013, 01:11 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

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Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
Have you checked out the 2013 Guide to Literary Agents? New ones come out every year with updated articles and interviews that are designed to help writing hopefuls prepare their work for how an Agent wants to see it. It then lists TONS of agents separated into what categories they look for, how they want to receive them, etc.

While I've never even gotten an agent to look at my manuscripts, that book has been awesome toward preparing my manuscripts for them and knowing who to send them to.
https://www.writersstore.com/hollywo...ing-directory/

Here is the screenwriting version

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Old 06-28-2013, 02:01 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

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Ok, so I sent a query to Brian DeFiore, and I have to share it with you guys so I can get your thoughts. I think this might be my best query yet.
Keep in mind, I've never had a query garner results, but I'm going to criticise your query because I think you might be hurting yourself more than helping. I promise I'm only doing so because I WANT to see you succeed and I worry you're taking the wrong approach to query-writing.

But again, I've never had any results so I might not be right. Everything I say below is based on my readings of the Guide to Literary Agents through the years and advice agents gave there.

Quote:
Dear Mr. DeFiore,

Since I have no prior publishing credentials, I will keep this query to the point. I am a debut author, and the novel I have for you is a completed 75,000-word Young Adult epic fantasy horror/adventure, Mathion: Legacy of the Wolven - Book One, the first in a planned series.
I'm not sure I'd mention this because it instantly puts you in a questionable light... especially with it being the first line. Most agents will delete the query if the first paragraph doesn't catch their eye. Here, you've told him that you've never been published, are still in your first attempt at writing a novel, and that you hope to get not one but a whole series of books planned.

I'm worried that an agent will look at that and feel as if you're thinking too big and aren't worth the risk.

Quote:
I am a proud child of the '90s, and grew up on a healthy literary diet of R. L. Stine's Goosebumps and K. A. Applegate's Animorphs, two series which continue to influence me in my writing today. I also have a fondness for authors such as Edgar Rice Burroughs, Robert E. Jordan, Robert Louis Stevenson, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. But it wasn't until high school, when I came across J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings that I became enthralled by fantasy, and at the age of eighteen, combining my love of history and mythology with my love of storytelling, I finally began work on the first book of what I undoubtedly believe will be my magnum opus.
I would chop this entire section. Queries should be short, sweet, and to the point. You have a paragraph here of the books you've read and liked but the agent won't care as much about that as much as what you're bringing them. At this point you've waited until the 3rd paragraph to show him what you're offering. He might already have a cautious opinion because you've expressed that you're a newbie, and it might be off-putting that a newbie already has a magnum opus. Leave the magnum opus out... definitely.

And so far your first line of "getting to the point" hasn't actually happened yet.

Quote:
Mathion is a book that honors the classic format of fantasy literature but eschews the traditional template, forsaking elves, dwarves, and orcs for races of werewolves and werewolf hunters, creating a story that is fresh yet familiar. Incorporating elements of werewolf folklore and Atlantis mythology, and reimagining both so as to give them one cohesive origin, with a hero as mythic as he is relatable, and a villain who's evil readers will relish. A tall order, to be sure, but overall I believe that I have written something worthwhile, and worth the read. I pride my work on its simultaneous accessibility and complexity of scope, worldbuilding and repurposed mythology, with a heavy dose of action and gore (we're dealing with werewolves after all) and just enough romance.
This seems alright save the bolded part. Agents don't want to know what you think about your own book. Of course you you believe in your story. You wrote it.

Quote:
...and I know exactly the kind of reader I want to attract. I will finish by saying simply this, and I say it as plain fact: Twilight has had its time, and now it's the boys' turn to have their literary fun.
The first line just feels tacked on and was a bit jarring for me. The Agent might think so as well. And while the Twilight line is fun, it can come across as a new, unproven writer taking jabs at an already accomplished, beloved author. If an agent takes this in that way, your query's in the garbage.

Quote:
At the age of seven the Wolven prince Mathion encounters a dying White Wolf, and is unwittingly entrusted with an ancient artifact of immense power. But when the Werewolves of Kânavad finally discover the artifacts hiding place a sequence of events is set in motion that will force Mathion, now a young and formidable warrior of fierce skill and renown, to choose between his uncompromising honor and rekindling a millennia-spanning conflict, the tides of which can change with each choice he makes. Here allies must be kept as close as possible, and one false move could condemn everything they hold dear, for the power that Mathion holds could indeed hold the key to his people's salvation, or unlock their ultimate destruction. Witness the epic beginnings of Atlantis mythology and Werewolf folklore, as the grand tragedy of an ancient civilization's cataclysmic end is reimagined in a bold new way, unfolding in an age of blood and valor before monsters and shapeshifters needed the darkness.
Man, I hate saying this because I hate hearing it... but I feel like the previous paragraph and this one needs combined and then condensed to a smaller paragraph than this one already is. As you said in line one... get to the point. Agents have very little time to read and will likely be skimming at first. You give them this much and they'll get glossy-eyed.

Quote:
Below, as per your agency's guidelines, I have included the first five pages of Mathion for your reading pleasure (I must confess that the sample is actually five and a half pages; I wanted to find the perfect cliffhanger stopping point for this particular sample). The full manuscript is available upon request, and its direct sequel, Reclamation, is already complete (the two books in reality being two halves of a single novel) and the third book, The Last Ascension, is currently in progress. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,
Jeff Shanley
[/SPOILER]
My personal suggestion... just send the 5 pages and leave the 1/2 out. If that's what they require, listen to them. If they aren't grabbed 5 pages in, that last 1/2 won't matter. It's best to give them exactly what they want and nothing more. As I said, their time is limited and they give limits for a reason. I'd also leave out the part about Reclamation being the second part of a single novel. That will make them feel forced to represent them both just to get the initial story, and for a debut writer, I don't see many agents wanting to bother with that headache. If the first book is not stand alone, you probably should mention that this is book one of a 4-book series, but leave details beyond that out.

So there you go. Harsh criticisms and I might be wrong on some of it, but those are things that stood out to me as I read it. I hope this helps and doesn't tick you off too badly. It's all said with a tone of encouragement.

Also, is this 1 page length? If it's any more they'll know and will likely toss it out. They're pretty strict about that.

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Old 06-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #84
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

It's one page length, I made sure But according to his page on the agency website, he wanted a "persuasive" query letter. This isn't my usual format, it's usually more to the point, but I felt that informing him of my literary influences was important enough to include. And in my experience, most agents are a little lenient with regards to samples; the important thing is that you stay enough within those bounds but still break off the sample at a good "stopping" point that will intrigue them to read more (if they don't ask for full chapters, that is).

So my fingers are crossed.

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Old 06-30-2013, 01:33 AM   #85
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I am beginning to write a screenplay, focused on a young boy who is coping with his gay brother committing suicide.

I'll post any significant progress.

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Old 06-30-2013, 05:19 PM   #86
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I am beginning to write a screenplay, focused on a young boy who is coping with his gay brother committing suicide.

I'll post any significant progress.
Simple story, but it sounds like it's coming from a personal space so it could perhaps say a lot, so that's definitely got my interest.

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Old 06-30-2013, 09:20 PM   #87
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Hey guys! It's been quite a while since I've posted here, but a thread this perfect for a guy like me was too great to pass up!

My name is Nick, I'm going into my final semester as a screenwriting student at Columbia College in Chicago. I've written seven feature scripts, the last of which I'm in the process of rewriting, and have completed many shorts as well, four of which were produced by my school for a combined budget of $20,000. Along with that, I've received a partial scholarship for one of my screenplays and was a double finalist in the Written Image Screenwriting Competition.

Aside from my work in screenwriting, I also dabble in flash fiction. My new site, Nick's Fics, is one where I post a humorous, oftentimes surreal story each and every Friday, the kick being that they're all kept to the (very) short limit of one thousand words or less. The link to it is in my signature, I'd love any and all feedback you guys might have!

Basically, my prime ambition is to become a working screenwriter, so reading Ultimatehero's posts has already given me a great feeling of camaraderie. Until I reach that level, though, I would love to write in just about any arena, whether it be fiction, writing copy, articles, you name it. I can't get enough of writing, essentially.

But yeah, it's great to see such a nice collection of like-minded individuals. I'm sure we'll all learn a lot from each other!

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Old 07-01-2013, 01:17 AM   #88
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I guess I would consider myself a writer. I tend to write in spurts, though, not real regularly. It’s got to be something really special to get me to commit to it. I never went to school for it or anything, it's a hobby, and I don't know if I could do it as a career.

I've been credited as a cowriter professionally thus far on IMDB and such, but my job tends to be to take a decent concept, look at a first draft from a director, break it apart and then make it work better. I love doing that.

I won some kids storywriting contest in Elementary school and went to a national writing competition in high school, but I’m mostly a screenwriter these days. I love the stage and screen and the combination of visual and thematic elements with real people.

As far as work (fun), I've written a couple of Batman fanfilms, among them PATIENT J. I also wrote an unreleased fanfilm called BATMAN: MADNESS featuring the Mad Hatter, and did some work on SEEDS OF ARKHAM as well, though my contributions on that were limited in the final film. I also a good bit of BATMAN: BLACKOUT, which never got off the ground as I recall.

I've written a lot of feature length scripts, mostly several years ago, including a WATCHMEN adaption, a Batman TV series, a Batman origin called BATMAN: GENESIS, two sequel scripts to BATMAN & ROBIN, a parody of the Schumacher Batfilms called THE BATMAN FAMILY and a crapton of other superhero stuff, including SUPERMAN STARTS (heh), THE FLASH, AQUAMAN, WONDER WOMAN, GREEN LANTERN, two JUSTICE LEAGUE scripts, THE SPECTRE, YOUNG X-MEN, and adaptions of CAPTAIN AMERICA and THE PUNISHER. That was all mostly just for fun and honing my skills and figuring out what I really wanted to work on conceptwise.

In the last few years, I've cowritten WAKE, a short drama which won a recent Best Short Film award in LA, a superhero/disaster short called FALLEN, a movie about a time traveling insurance company called DATE OF LOSS, and the psychological/sci-fi drama STREAMLINE, which we just finished filming this past weekend. Oh, and that thing in my signature? That's about to become a reality, it's kind of my baby. I'm finishing up the book and the lyrics. Still scratching my superhero itch, basically.

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Old 07-01-2013, 05:22 PM   #89
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For any of us looking for agents, stalk http://www.writersdigest.com/editor-...-agency-alerts

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Old 07-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #90
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That's awesome. Thanks, man.

I'm planning on trying the agent route with my new book, so when it's ready I'll be sure to look for an update on that blog.

And on a related note, does anyone else have problems trying to figure out the genre of your book/script/etc? I swear, I cannot for the life of me figure out the genre of my Anderson books. I still question if I've dubbed Cicada Song right, and now Not Quite Home has me befuddled.

If it's basically just a novel about a person's life that happens to include large aspects of romance, is it still romance? The romance is only half the story while his trying to cope with returning to his home town 10 years after causing the automobile accident that killed his family is the other half of the story. Both are equally focused on with his returning home being the primary focus. But the love story that builds throughout the novel leads to some major things including the final conflict.

Grrrr!

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Old 07-02-2013, 06:57 PM   #91
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

What do you guys think would be an appropriate length for a debut novel?

Mine was originally 156,192, but since I split it into two volumes it's now sitting at a cozy 76,170 (although I now think it's too short )

Do you think it could better help landing me an agent?

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Old 07-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #92
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Personally, I don't think it matters at all. If it was 1,000 pages okay or even 500 I can see why they'd ask you to cut it. But at 192, that's smaller than some junior novelizations and kid novels which this doesn't seem like it is at all. Maybe it's a font thing making it more than that? I'd say keep it because it sounds small to normal length as is and probably something you'd only hear from that one agent.

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Old 07-02-2013, 07:12 PM   #93
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Personally, I don't think it matters at all. If it was 1,000 pages okay or even 500 I can see why they'd ask you to cut it. But at 192, that's smaller than some junior novelizations and kid novels which this doesn't seem like it is at all. Maybe it's a font thing making it more than that? I'd say keep it because it sounds small to normal length as is and probably something you'd only hear from that one agent.
156,192

And the font is 12-pt Times New Roman, double spaced, one inch margins. That's how agents prefer to read them, so I try to follow the rules as best I can.

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Old 07-02-2013, 07:33 PM   #94
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Oh, lol. With splitting it in two for some reason I thought you were stating the page lengths for the first and second installments. I'd say take it down way way way more. But then again I'm not that familiar with the genre.

I just looked - Fellowship of the Ring, Two Towers and Return of the King are all around 400-500 pages. So that is seriously long in comparison to at least that franchise. That's more than all LOTR books combined. Unless I'm reading it wrong and it's not over a hundred thousand...

I know you might not like hearing this, but I would personally go back in and take out any of the excess information that you don't need so that you have at least one complete story that can be 400-500 pages and see where that goes. It might just be being unfamiliar with the genre, but that sounds way too long.

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Old 07-02-2013, 07:36 PM   #95
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Oh, lol. With splitting it in two for some reason I thought you were stating the page lengths for the first and second installments. I'd say take it down way way way more. But then again I'm not that familiar with the genre.

I just looked - Fellowship of the Ring, Two Towers and Return of the King are all around 400-500 pages. That is seriously long.


Well I prefer a nice long book. In my opinion HP1 & HP2 were too short. Don't ask me why I felt that way, but oh well

Order of the Phoenix clocked in at some 257,000 words and I read that in a day!!

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Old 07-02-2013, 07:51 PM   #96
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Well I prefer a nice long book. In my opinion HP1 & HP2 were too short. Don't ask me why I felt that way, but oh well

Order of the Phoenix clocked in at some 257,000 words and I read that in a day!!
Wait, page count or word count is over 100,000?

Also meant int comparison - LOTR isn't long - but being 100,000 + plus compared to that series and the last Potter book being under 800 pages if it is pages - it's really long.

If it's word count (typically only page count is brought up) don't see how an agent could really have a problem with that. Because depending on the space the word takes up, a book with more words could be less pages than a book with more.

Basically, if that is the page length? Significantly reduce it to the norm.

If that is the word count? Find a different agent, because that one seems to be pulling straws because - at least in screenplays - I've never heard of word count being a problem at all and I don't know why it would in a book because word count doesn't dictate how long it is.

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Old 07-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #97
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Wait, page count or word count is over 100,000?

Also meant int comparison - LOTR isn't long - but being 100,000 + plus compared to that series and the last Potter book being under 800 pages if it is pages - it's really long.

If it's word count (typically only page count is brought up) don't see how an agent could really have a problem with that. Because depending on the space the word takes up, a book with more words could be less pages than a book with more.

Basically, if that is the page length? Significantly reduce it to the norm.

If that is the word count? Find a different agent, because that one seems to be pulling straws because - at least in screenplays - I've never heard of word count being a problem at all and I don't know why it would in a book because word count doesn't dictate how long it is.
Word count.

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Old 07-02-2013, 08:06 PM   #98
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Then yeah, you might want to do some looking around to see if that is something in books. Which I don't see why it would be, because it is possible to have a book with more words have less pages than a book with more words. To me, and I don't know how to say this easily or lightly, it sounds like the agent is looking for an easy excuse to deny it. I'd say you'd have a lot better luck just moving on to a different agent than being pulled and yanked around by just this one guy. Because an agent demanding less pages I can see, but an agent demanding a less word count... kinda sounds like reaching for straws and that you'd have much better luck elsewhere. But, maybe books do look at word count? I'd personally just further look into if that's an actual thing, which I don't know why it would be, and look for someone else. Some agents are known for getting talent on then dicking them around and this guy with word count rather than page count - something just doesn't sound right about this guy to me.

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Old 07-02-2013, 08:11 PM   #99
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Default Re: The Writer's thread (Authors, Screenwriters, playwrights, etc.))

Oh no, this isn't about that one agent; I've since moved on.

But in terms of being able to sell my book to an agent or a publisher, 156k words is too long a book and too big a risk. Splitting it was hard to do, but I'm not unhappy with the end result. I've been looking around the internet and the general consensus is anywhere around 80k words (give or take).

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Old 07-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #100
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A better question to help me try to determine would be, how many pages is 156k words? I'd say for a beginning book maybe 200 - 250 pages, possibly 300. BUT, if it is a really good book - it's really not going to matter. At the end of the day, they're not going to go "hmm, I liked that book - but it has too many pages, I can't pick it up." However at the beginning, and I've been guilty of this as a 'reader,' looking online and seeing it's someones first and if it feels long you go "eh, come on - not this." But, with that said - that is only a first impression. And if you prove that first impression wrong, it really shouldn't matter because the quality would just speak for itself. Note - this would go for screenwriting too. A lot say 90 - 105 for first time writers; however that's more of an opinion than a rule - if your finished product is good, no one's really going to be looking at that. It could impact a reader's first impression BUT if you prove that impression wrong it won't matter.

ADDING: I have an example to add to all of this. I am currently writing a biopic to put onto the black list and for my contacts to be able to see. Most screenplays are 120 pages long. To go above that is considered to be extremely rare. Then it is even more rare for it to be 170 pages long which is what it is looking at. Now, rather than worrying about the page length - I'm just worrying about making those pages exceptionally good so that when all is said and done one doesn't look at the pages and instead just thinks "wow, that was a great story and really intriguing." Now another thing is the guy who this biopic is about, anything less than that and you run the risk of it seeming like a spark-notes version of his life and just throwing random facts out there with no strong foundation behind it. Basically, with some stories, you just need those pages. It is better to worry about the content and the quality rather than the page count because if it is good - in the end the page count shouldn't be what they remember. (Interesting antidote: 170 pages or around there is the same length aprox. as 'The Aviator' screenplay).

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Last edited by Ultimatehero; 07-02-2013 at 08:31 PM.
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