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Old 09-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #276
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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I don't know where Ra's al Ghul is from, neither does the mainstream. They didn't state where he's from in Nolan's version either.

Everyone knows the Shredder is Japanese.
In Nolan's version, he's clearly a british man.

In the comics, he was arabian.

Either way, his race wasn't right as he was played by a caucasian/european man.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:43 PM   #277
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

He may have spent some time in Britain but it's not clearly established that he's from there.

Either way, a Caucasian playing Ra's al Ghul isn't as offensive as a Caucasian playing the Shredder.

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Old 09-19-2013, 10:13 PM   #278
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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He may have spent some time in Britain but it's not clearly established that he's from there.
Any chance he's Arabian?

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Old 09-19-2013, 10:31 PM   #279
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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Any chance he's Arabian?
If the the character is, the actor isn't. And isn't that the same problem people have with Shredder?

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:46 PM   #280
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
He may have spent some time in Britain but it's not clearly established that he's from there.

Either way, a Caucasian playing Ra's al Ghul isn't as offensive as a Caucasian playing the Shredder.
How so? Its a Caucasian playing someone of Asian ethnicity, just like in TMNT. In Ra's' case, Arabian. In Shredder's case, Japanese.

It should be equally offensive. Maybe moreso in Ra's' case since not only is his name itself is Arabian (Ra's Al Ghul means "Demon's Head" in Arabic), making it impossible to get around that Ra's SHOULD BE Arabian, but in the film he was played by TWO different actors, both of non Arabian decent/"unpassable" for Arabian. One was Irish Caucasian (Liam Neeson), the other Japanese (Ken Watanabe).

So again, how is one offensive and the other not? Because by the logic of the fans who are strongly against a white man as Shredder, they should not only be against Christopher Nolan's interpretation of Ra's, but his interpretation of Bane (whom was Spanish with a thick Spanish accent in the comics) too.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:01 PM   #281
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

There's a bigger distinction between a Caucasian man and a Japanese man than a Caucasian man and an Arabic man.

How many Arabians would have the name, "Demon's Head"? It's a title given to him. That name could be given to anyone of any nationality that has spent time in the region.

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Old 09-19-2013, 11:14 PM   #282
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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There's a bigger distinction between a Caucasian man and a Japanese man than a Caucasian man and an Arabic man.

How many Arabians would have the name, "Demon's Head"? It's a title given to him. That name could be given to anyone of any nationality that has spent time in the region.
Okay fine. But the fact still remains that the character is Arabian, and the actor is not.

And also what about Bane.

Clearly and undeniably Spanish, being played by a caucasian man with an modified english accent.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:22 PM   #283
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

Yeah but...Caucasians can play Spaniards.

He obviously doesn't have a Spanish accent. But that doesn't bother me too much because I liked what Hardy did with the character.

And Bane too hasn't really been established in the mainstream. But Shredder has and it feels like too much of a departure.

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Old 09-19-2013, 11:53 PM   #284
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

I was always under the impression that Ra's exact origins are somewhat ambiguous. This COULD potentially work if they do the whole "adopted, raised in Japan and obsessed with their culture" route.

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Old 09-20-2013, 02:12 AM   #285
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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How so? Its a Caucasian playing someone of Asian ethnicity, just like in TMNT. In Ra's' case, Arabian. In Shredder's case, Japanese.

It should be equally offensive. Maybe moreso in Ra's' case since not only is his name itself is Arabian (Ra's Al Ghul means "Demon's Head" in Arabic), making it impossible to get around that Ra's SHOULD BE Arabian, but in the film he was played by TWO different actors, both of non Arabian decent/"unpassable" for Arabian. One was Irish Caucasian (Liam Neeson), the other Japanese (Ken Watanabe).

So again, how is one offensive and the other not? Because by the logic of the fans who are strongly against a white man as Shredder, they should not only be against Christopher Nolan's interpretation of Ra's, but his interpretation of Bane (whom was Spanish with a thick Spanish accent in the comics) too.
Because Nolan directed it and he does no wrong.

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Old 09-20-2013, 01:37 PM   #286
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

That's not what I said at all.

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Old 09-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #287
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

Contrary to popular belief comic book fans understand that sometimes when adapting these characters to other media requires some alterarions. It's just a case of whether these changes are seen to have valid reasons and alter what is seen to be the core of the character.

There's reasons why Nolan's version of Ras gets more of a pass. The most obvious being that an arab attempting to destroy a city is going to raise more than a few eyebrows in this day and age. Secondly the characters ethnicity isn't all that important to characters overall motif. He's a head of an international crime syndicate, an eco terrorist, wanted to recruit Bruce as his successor.

In contrast there really is no reason why Shredder can't be Japanese. While there's no reason why a ninja couldn't be a white American it would seem to need complicated additions to his backstory to make his story as it has always been "work".

Of course that's another issue. The casting of Fichtner who doesn't seem suited to a ninja master and the very strong signs the character is a military man as well as rumours he's an industrialist or politician etc which means the characters main motif has been significantly changed and for what reason? We can only speculate but I suspect it's because guns n' 'splosions are more appealing to the people making this movie than martial arts battles. In which case I'm not sure that should be making a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. Heck, the fact they only included the mutant aspect grudgingly is another cause for concern.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #288
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

Still hoping there's a switch pulled on us midway through the film and Fichtner isn't really the Shredder, but just running the business side of the Foot's criminal organization (more like Kingpin) and the trouble the turtles cause brings Oroku Saki from Japan.

Other than the Shredder question, though, I'm liking a lot of what I'm seeing lately.

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Old 09-28-2013, 03:45 AM   #289
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

At least Neeson wasn't playing someone called Ray L Ghoul

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Old 09-28-2013, 04:16 AM   #290
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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Still hoping there's a switch pulled on us midway through the film and Fichtner isn't really the Shredder, but just running the business side of the Foot's criminal organization (more like Kingpin) and the trouble the turtles cause brings Oroku Saki from Japan.

Other than the Shredder question, though, I'm liking a lot of what I'm seeing lately.
Not gonna happen.

The current rumor that he's adopted, and that his arc is a metaphor for xenophobia seems more likely.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #291
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

So is Fichtner going to be called Saki or is this supposed to be a "new & different" Shredder?

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Old 10-01-2013, 03:53 PM   #292
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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So is Fichtner going to be called Saki or is this supposed to be a "new & different" Shredder?
There's an alleged leaked description that says he WILL still be called Oroku Saki, and that he'll be the adopted brother of Oroku Nagi, his brother in the original Mirage Comics.

And after the death of Nagi, he becomes the heir to the Foot Clan and he moves the organization to America.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:43 PM   #293
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

I guess if he's still supposed to be Oroku Saki,I'll be alright with him in the role.But it does seem to stretch a point just to get Fichtner in the role.

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Old 10-01-2013, 10:02 PM   #294
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

it does, but they emphasis the possible xenophobia aspect of it, it could be really interesting.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:19 AM   #295
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

I'd love to see something like this:


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Old 10-02-2013, 09:47 AM   #296
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

Ditto

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Old 10-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #297
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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So is Fichtner going to be called Saki or is this supposed to be a "new & different" Shredder?
It's been confirmed by Fichtner himself the character name is Eric Sachs.

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Old 10-02-2013, 04:24 PM   #298
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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At least Neeson wasn't playing someone called Roger Ghoul
FTF

I didn't think Shredder would have much action?

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Old 10-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #299
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

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It's been confirmed by Fichtner himself the character name is Eric Sachs.
Yes, but the description that's floating around states he uses the "Sachs" name when he moves the Clan to America.

But he IS Oroku Saki.

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Yeah, I'm just worried that if Pan of Steel isn't widely accepted by the audience and critics, they might try to shoehorn Pinocchio into the sequel, and we all know how long Hollywood has been trying to do a 'Pan vs Pinocchio' team up movie.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:57 PM   #300
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Default Re: William Fitchner IS The Shredder

Still waiting for the trailers and all, but my expectations are only at mild warm.

Twisting around Oroku Saki for Fichtner to play the role, apparently a para-military style Foot Clan (using firearms/automatic weapons and the like as a "security company"....with masks), and a Shredder that won't actually be involved in much of a fight (and I question how much of a fight they'll even have with the show down scene) I'm just keeping my expectations pretty low.

But I'm also concerned it's going to be "Raphael and the Ninja Turltes" part 5 also.

There's always the IDW comic and the Nick CG series if the movie disappoints at least.


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