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View Poll Results: Which Zod is Better??
Terence Stamp 30 22.22%
Michael Shannon 84 62.22%
Both equal 21 15.56%
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:11 PM   #176
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Originally Posted by Ken-Kaniff View Post
I 'm sorry for the old Supes movie fans, but Michael Shannon was amazing! Man Of Steel was so good, I was disappointed that it didn't get better reviews, honestly...
Reviews don't matter end of the day, its what you think that matters.

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Old 03-24-2014, 06:27 PM   #177
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Originally Posted by BH/HHH
he played the part like an actual general
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Originally Posted by BH/HHH View Post
He plays the part like a real military leader.
You must be under the impression that repeating yourself is the same as explaining yourself.

Since you didn't answer the first time, I'll ask you again - based on what? What is a real military leader, in your experience (assuming you have any),?

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Originally Posted by BH/HHH View Post
He's not an over the top moustache twirling villain, he's simply a leader if a group of soldiers who has to protect Krypton. There was nothing over the top about his performance in my opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
So because he isn't a caricature, that validates him being a realistic depiction of a military commander? Non-sequitur. And if simply being the leader of a bunch of misfits makes him a real commander, then you may as well say the same about Biff Tannen. With that in mind, the only real "commander" (I use that term very loosely) Zod has anything in common with are the RUF rebels from the Sierra Leone civil war. As a matter of fact, the second he decided to take up arms against his own people was the moment where he was no longer a soldier of any kind, but a rebel like the aforementioned...so there's that. I can assure you that he certainly doesn't exude the traits and demeanor of any legitimate commander in the armed forces today. Maybe the reason you say otherwise is because you can't seem to look past the title of 'general', which is fine, but calling him 'real' is stepping over the line. The point you're at is the point where 'agree to disagree' doesn't fully apply, because when you start using terms like real or actual to describe something, that's when you need to start backing up your claims with something verifiable. I'm still not seeing it.

Zod being over the top? We can agree to disagree on that; it's a matter of perspective. Zod acting like a real general? Plain and simple...no. To suggest as much is insulting to the real military commanders in the world.

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Old 03-25-2014, 03:07 AM   #178
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Zod being over the top? We can agree to disagree on that; it's a matter of perspective. Zod acting like a real general? Plain and simple...no. To suggest as much is insulting to the real military commanders in the world.
Hey ! Visualiza, long time no see, well not exactly, but you know what I mean.

Anyway, maybe the issue here depends on how you define real military commander.

For example, in Fiji Commodore Frank Bainimarama overthrew the Fijian govt, which was horribly corrupt and unjust, in a virtually bloodless coup and has been effectively a dictator since then. I haven't served in the military but I know guys who have, and nobody has said that he isn't a real military commander (given the Fijian armed forces have provided peacekeepers who have served with distinction in the most troubled areas the UN goes into).

Of course that's not a great comparison, because Banimarama has no genocidal tendancies (that we know of).

What I'm saying is, maybe you're suggesting Zod isn't what we would like to think of in terms of an ideal commander should be like or even a good commander.

But I'm sure he would have fit right in with some of Hitler's military buddies (maybe not Rommel, or the more moderate ones), but maybe he and Custer would get along (although that depends which story you believe about Custer). History is full of real military commanders who were opportunistic, stupid, sadistic, power-mad, or had noble aspirations that just went wrong.

Just because he's a rebel doesn't mean he's not a general. At the same time, he's not a guy we'd want in charge of our own military.

He's no Norm Schwarzkopf or Colin Powell, or Eisenhower or Macarthur or Montgomery or Wellington (and definitely not Napoleon) or even Petraeus but I'm sure we could think of a few military commanders who turned against their rulers and tried to take over, and despite their actions still be considered military commanders.

If anything, I think that Zod had that haircut for a reason, I think there's a very imperfect comparison to be made with Julius Caesar, well at least in his rebellion against Rome -again not a perfect comparison, Caesar was a political genius, whereas Zod ......not so much.

This of course is just a quibble about the meaning of "real" military commander. If you mean he's not a good military commander I agree, he's pretty average at best.

If you've ever seen Blackadder (and if you haven't you should, it's hillarious) there's this episode set during WW I, a woman has disguised herself as a man to see what war is like.

Bob: [Horrified] Oh sir, oh sir, please don't give me away, sir. I just wanted to be like my brothers and join up. I want to see how a war is fought... so badly!
Blackadder: Well, you've come to the right place, Bob. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered eighty thousand battle helmets with the horns on the inside.Face it, there have been plenty of real military commanders, who were pretty awful (Zod manages to have most of their worst traits all rolled into one, although he's not really that incompetent, just obsessed). WW I might not have been as costly in human lives had the top brass been a little more
on to it, IMO.

Still, I really enjoyed Shannon's Zod, maybe a little more than Stamp's as I found him a more credible threat to Superman, but that's just IMO.

Oh, and I'm not saying you're wrong, just that maybe other people have different views on what "real" military commander means.

peace out superfans !


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Old 03-25-2014, 11:32 AM   #179
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Hey ! Visualiza, long time no see, well not exactly, but you know what I mean.

Anyway, maybe the issue here depends on how you define real military commander.

For example, in Fiji Commodore Frank Bainimarama overthrew the Fijian govt, which was horribly corrupt and unjust, in a virtually bloodless coup and has been effectively a dictator since then. I haven't served in the military but I know guys who have, and nobody has said that he isn't a real military commander (given the Fijian armed forces have provided peacekeepers who have served with distinction in the most troubled areas the UN goes into).

Of course that's not a great comparison, because Banimarama has no genocidal tendancies (that we know of).

What I'm saying is, maybe you're suggesting Zod isn't what we would like to think of in terms of an ideal commander should be like or even a good commander.

But I'm sure he would have fit right in with some of Hitler's military buddies (maybe not Rommel, or the more moderate ones), but maybe he and Custer would get along (although that depends which story you believe about Custer). History is full of real military commanders who were opportunistic, stupid, sadistic, power-mad, or had noble aspirations that just went wrong.

Just because he's a rebel doesn't mean he's not a general. At the same time, he's not a guy we'd want in charge of our own military.

He's no Norm Schwarzkopf or Colin Powell, or Eisenhower or Macarthur or Montgomery or Wellington (and definitely not Napoleon) or even Petraeus but I'm sure we could think of a few military commanders who turned against their rulers and tried to take over, and despite their actions still be considered military commanders.

If anything, I think that Zod had that haircut for a reason, I think there's a very imperfect comparison to be made with Julius Caesar, well at least in his rebellion against Rome -again not a perfect comparison, Caesar was a political genius, whereas Zod ......not so much.

This of course is just a quibble about the meaning of "real" military commander. If you mean he's not a good military commander I agree, he's pretty average at best.

If you've ever seen Blackadder (and if you haven't you should, it's hillarious) there's this episode set during WW I, a woman has disguised herself as a man to see what war is like.

Bob: [Horrified] Oh sir, oh sir, please don't give me away, sir. I just wanted to be like my brothers and join up. I want to see how a war is fought... so badly!
Blackadder: Well, you've come to the right place, Bob. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered eighty thousand battle helmets with the horns on the inside.Face it, there have been plenty of real military commanders, who were pretty awful (Zod manages to have most of their worst traits all rolled into one, although he's not really that incompetent, just obsessed). WW I might not have been as costly in human lives had the top brass been a little more
on to it, IMO.

Still, I really enjoyed Shannon's Zod, maybe a little more than Stamp's as I found him a more credible threat to Superman, but that's just IMO.

Oh, and I'm not saying you're wrong, just that maybe other people have different views on what "real" military commander means.

peace out superfans !

Nicely put sir

As for Zod not been a great General I think we could put that down to his programming. He's programmed to protect Krypton, that takes away his independent thought. He's incapable of making certain decisions.

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Old 03-27-2014, 01:41 PM   #180
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

I pick Shannon over Stamp because I like the way his version was written & executed. Will always be a fan of Stamp & what he brought to the character, but I felt more emotionally invested in Zod's, and the story carried more weight.

With Terrence Stamp's Zod, even though he has this unique history with Jor-El, it isn't really delved into all that deeply once SII rolls around. And that gets chalked up to being a sorely missed opportunity. Even the Donner cut (the infinitely better version anyway) doesn't really expand upon this idea.

With Zod in MoS, I actually felt the emotional impact. He seemed more like a character rather than just this evil entity that primarily wants to rule over all he surveys.

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Old 03-28-2014, 01:05 AM   #181
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

Stamp's Zod is fun, but Shannon's Zod is more menacing.
I mean, the first thing he does (when he shows up) is shoot an unarmed
old lady. He's pretty cold blooded about exterminating humanity, and obsessed
with duty and recreating the Krypton of old. All in all, while Stamp has more charm
Shannon's Zod is more of a credible threat to Superman, and has motivations we
can understand (as crazy as they are).

Just IMO !

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Old 03-28-2014, 01:17 AM   #182
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Stamp's Zod is fun, but Shannon's Zod is more menacing.
I mean, the first thing he does (when he shows up) is shoot an unarmed
old lady. He's pretty cold blooded about exterminating humanity, and obsessed
with duty and recreating the Krypton of old. All in all, while Stamp has more charm
Shannon's Zod is more of a credible threat to Superman, and has motivations we
can understand (as crazy as they are).

Just IMO !
I think most of what you say has more to do with the different tone of both movies than with both Zods, because Stamp's Zod was menacing, destructive and cold-blooded as well. And we for sure can understand his motivations - to rule a planet - even when they were different in every take of the character.

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Old 03-28-2014, 06:43 PM   #183
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

Shannon's Zod was not as terrifying as Stamp's.

Compare Shannon's "I WILL FIND HIM" to Stamp's "AND THEN ONE DAY... YOUR HEIRS!". It's pretty obvious to me. Shannon's over the top intensity falls just short of Stamp's blood oath as he's about to be imprisoned.

And you could argue that Stamp's Zod is more sympathetic too. Compare Zod's rebellion in both MOS and the original film. In MOS Zod is imprisoned because he rebelled against an incompetent government. In 78 Zod was being imprisoned for rebelling against a suppressive one.

Fact is both Zods wanted to take over the world but it was Stamp's Zod who was actually motivated by it. That makes him a hell of a lot scarier.

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Old 03-29-2014, 12:31 AM   #184
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

I disagree in both respects. Firstly, Shannon's version was not meant to be viewed as primarily terrifying. He was a man on a mission & wasn't going to stop until his goal was accomplished. He's not Heath Ledger's Joker who is simply causing chaos for the hell of it. So there was no need for him to come off as secondly.

Secondly, I can't see how Stamp's version is more terrifying. Stamp's portrayal of Zod is cold, calculating, & actually evil. He sought to act on the crime of genocide on Krypton. He didn't have any reason for this, he was just doing as he wished. Even on Krypton, Shannon's Zod had the main prerogative of saving Krypton, even if he was taking the most radical way to do so.

Opinions & perspectives are fine, but I can't see how anyone can see Stamp's version as being more sympathetic than Shannon's when one was purposefully made to be a practically heartless & ruthless villain whereas the other was specifically written to be the opposite.

Terrence Stamp's Zod is anything but sympathetic.

And Shannon's Zod wasn't attempting to take over the world, he was destroying it to recreate Krypton. Big, big difference.

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Old 03-29-2014, 08:28 AM   #185
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Secondly, I can't see how Stamp's version is more terrifying. Stamp's portrayal of Zod is cold, calculating, & actually evil. He sought to act on the crime of genocide on Krypton. He didn't have any reason for this, he was just doing as he wished. Even on Krypton, Shannon's Zod had the main prerogative of saving Krypton, even if he was taking the most radical way to do so
Who's to say he didn't have a reason? Did you see what life was like on Krypton? It was cold, sterile and lifeless. It was a suppressive government. Jor-El was threatened with eternal imprisonment by his own council over the mere mention of evacuation.

According to Jor-El, Zod was once a trusted member of the council and an honored general so it's hard to imagine he just woke up out of bed one day and decided he wanted to take over the world. Something must have set him off. Look at his face as he is being sentenced. Does that look like an evil mustache twirling villain to you? Or does it look like a defeated man who fought for a cause and lost.

The only thing we can conclude was that Zod wasn't happy with current management, not that he was "evil".

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And Shannon's Zod wasn't attempting to take over the world, he was destroying it to recreate Krypton. Big, big difference.
Yes he was. "And who will decide which bloodlines survive Zod... you?"

His motivation might have been different but at the end of the day his goal was the same as Stamp's. To establish a new order and position himself as it's leader.

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Old 03-29-2014, 01:04 PM   #186
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Who's to say he didn't have a reason? Did you see what life was like on Krypton? It was cold, sterile and lifeless. It was a suppressive government. Jor-El was threatened with eternal imprisonment by his own council over the mere mention of evacuation.
YouŽll have to make up a reason, because the movie didnŽt give us a good one.

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Old 03-29-2014, 01:24 PM   #187
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YouŽll have to make up a reason, because the movie didnŽt give us a good one.
No one has to make up anything. Krypton is clearly depicted as a dystopia.

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Old 03-29-2014, 09:25 PM   #188
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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I think most of what you say has more to do with the different tone of both movies than with both Zods, because Stamp's Zod was menacing, destructive and cold-blooded as well. And we for sure can understand his motivations - to rule a planet - even when they were different in every take of the character.
Fair call. But then the tone of the movies was always going to be reflected
in the characters - I'm surprised I haven't seen more Chris Reeve v Henry Cavill threads.
Stamp-Zod is quite flamboyant , as well as a merciless killer, and it really suits the film, I think that "Kneel before Zod !" is a better catchphrase, but I still find Shannon's Zod more menacing.

Maybe "understand" was the wrong word to use in my original post. I suppose what I mean is that Shannon's key motivation is to save his race, whereas Stamp's is just megalomania (the need to rule). Personally, I find Shannon-Zod's motivation a bit more sympathetic, sort of that what he's doing makes sense, but the way he's going about it is terrible.

The fact that he's willing to wipe out humanity to achieve what he perceives as the "right thing" and making that choice without thinking twice, to me that makes him a scarier guy.

Stamp, well his Zod is just a jerk, he's happy to grind humanity under his boot - for him its all about his ego, which as you say is pretty easy to understand. I know plenty of jerks who get their kicks by lording it over others when they can (fortunately none of them have super-powers).

Shannon's motivations have a bit more depth. I think Stamp was a better actor in a very caricatured role, but Shannon's Zod was a better written character. Again, this is all just IMO.

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Old 05-09-2014, 02:56 PM   #189
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

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Who's to say he didn't have a reason? Did you see what life was like on Krypton? It was cold, sterile and lifeless. It was a suppressive government. Jor-El was threatened with eternal imprisonment by his own council over the mere mention of evacuation.

According to Jor-El, Zod was once a trusted member of the council and an honored general so it's hard to imagine he just woke up out of bed one day and decided he wanted to take over the world. Something must have set him off. Look at his face as he is being sentenced. Does that look like an evil mustache twirling villain to you? Or does it look like a defeated man who fought for a cause and lost.

The only thing we can conclude was that Zod wasn't happy with current management, not that he was "evil".



Yes he was. "And who will decide which bloodlines survive Zod... you?"

His motivation might have been different but at the end of the day his goal was the same as Stamp's. To establish a new order and position himself as it's leader.
I didn't ever say or imply that Stamp's version was a cardboard cut-out type of villain, just that he was a more straightforward villain whereas the Zod of MoS wasn't. We don't fully know what Stamp's Zod was after on Krypton aside from a New World Order, but it was pretty much established that they terrorized the planet. Regardless of his agenda or his cause, he was wrong. Stamp's Zod didn't really give a damn about anything but being seen as the ultimate ruler.

Shannon's Zod lives, breathes, & bleeds Krypton. Don't get me wrong, he's most definitely a villain, but at the same time he does have noble intentions. He's just not carrying them out in the best manner.

From the writing to the actual portrayal, it's really impossible to say Stamp wasn't much more of a evil & ruthless villain than Shannon's version. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just how it is.

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Old 06-08-2014, 10:43 PM   #190
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Default Re: Okay....Which Zod is Better??

This is a tricky question. I could see argument for Shannon's Zod on a character level, but in terms of portrayal Stamp is miles beyond Shannon. They aren't even comparably talented, and Stamp effortlessly does more with the role than Michael Shannon does throwing himself into it. Shannon tries to make you believe is Zod. Stamp IS Zod.

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