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Old 07-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #501
Iron_Madrigal
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

So, Superman and the other Kryptonians destroy a city and kill thousands. Superman wants to build trust between him and the people of Earth by then dumping a drone in front of American servicemen. WOW.

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Old 07-10-2013, 03:09 PM   #502
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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So, Superman and the other Kryptonians destroy a city and kill thousands. Superman wants to build trust between him and the people of Earth by then dumping a drone in front of American servicemen. WOW.
He already has a relationship with Swannick. And they had a conversation about trust during that scence.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:55 PM   #503
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Actually, it's now 2 dimensional.. it's lacking the 3rd.. it's only got the somber/downer... doesn't have the upper/hope aspect...

I dont' know why we keep going from extreme to extreme.. like go nuts with campy jokes every other sentence, to 'cry, conflicted, emo' the entire time... Somehow Goyer managed to con some fans into thinking that 'down/dark/emo' = realistic... which it is not..

Too true.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #504
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

MOS doesn't have enough action.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:58 PM   #505
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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So, Superman and the other Kryptonians destroy a city and kill thousands. Superman wants to build trust between him and the people of Earth by then dumping a drone in front of American servicemen. WOW.
Hyperbole to the extreme. It wasn't about building trust between the "people of Earth," (that likely comes later) it was about getting the Government to trust Superman in that he won't get spied on etc.

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Old 07-10-2013, 07:10 PM   #506
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Actually, it's now 2 dimensional.. it's lacking the 3rd.. it's only got the somber/downer... doesn't have the upper/hope aspect...

I dont' know why we keep going from extreme to extreme.. like go nuts with campy jokes every other sentence, to 'cry, conflicted, emo' the entire time... Somehow Goyer managed to con some fans into thinking that 'down/dark/emo' = realistic... which it is not..

Goyer does not like the term realistic. He prefers grounded. But I think he likes to break down a character and then build them back up. I never liked the term realistic because in real life Batman would have gotten caught.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:09 PM   #507
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Hyperbole to the extreme. It wasn't about building trust between the "people of Earth," (that likely comes later) it was about getting the Government to trust Superman in that he won't get spied on etc.
"I'm 33 and grew up in Kansas. You'll never find me... You know, it's not like my secret identity was discovered by a single reporter a few days before... Heh..."

Dear god, it's the most ADD script ever.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:11 PM   #508
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

It is kind of ironic that Jor-El sent Superman to Earth to "lead humanity into the sun", when all Jor-El really accomplished was sending a Kryptonian War to Earth's doorstep.

Thanks, Jor.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:14 PM   #509
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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So, Superman and the other Kryptonians destroy a city and kill thousands. Superman wants to build trust between him and the people of Earth by then dumping a drone in front of American servicemen. WOW.
He saved near 7 billion people. Think about that ok? and I hope superman isn't totally embraced right away by the people and that's an aspect we seem him still working on throughout the sequel.

Regardless of all his good he will still always be seen an an alien to some people.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:18 PM   #510
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

The movie was cold/humorless, not a bit of fun. A big blockbuster movie, especially one about Superman who is historically not a morose, stodgy character, could benefit from some light hearted moments. The movie could still retain a serious tone yet balance that line, and it would have made the movie a touch more fun which would have made it a touch more watchable.
By the third act I was completely disinterested. The fight scenes were about as boring and repetitive as it gets. I wouldn't be shocked if there was a studio mandate from WB to overcompensate for the lack of action in Superman Returns, because it was straight up action/disaster porn. The lackluster special effects in certain parts didn't help one bit.

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Old 07-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #511
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

What I didn't understand is that it seemed like Jor-El and Lara discovered Earth only moments before they sent Kal off. Yet, Jor-El talks about how Kal will lead humanity to some great destiny, like he knows a lot about human history and human nature and stuff.

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Old 07-11-2013, 02:46 AM   #512
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Only a handful of people so far. And there will be many people who'll see him in person, not just through TV.
The question is is this Superman going to be one that fronts media conferences and appear on TV interviews and visit young school kids or is he going to be more Batman like and only appear when needed? Given there was no point during the movie in which he appeared to a mass audience it seems more the latter. I guess the downside to that is that if Superman doesn't have a public face then he won't be doing things like helping rebuild Metropolis.

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:25 AM   #513
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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What I didn't understand is that it seemed like Jor-El and Lara discovered Earth only moments before they sent Kal off. Yet, Jor-El talks about how Kal will lead humanity to some great destiny, like he knows a lot about human history and human nature and stuff.
Uh, there was a scoutship with a house of El suit sent to Earth 18,000 years ago. With him being a top scientist and scholar of Krypton, Im sure he did his homework.

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:31 AM   #514
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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The question is is this Superman going to be one that fronts media conferences and appear on TV interviews and visit young school kids or is he going to be more Batman like and only appear when needed? Given there was no point during the movie in which he appeared to a mass audience it seems more the latter. I guess the downside to that is that if Superman doesn't have a public face then he won't be doing things like helping rebuild Metropolis.
No way. First off at the end of the film, Martha asked what does he go from here. Clark replied that he will get a job, somewhere so he can keep his ear to the ground. So when he runs to danger, people wont look twice. He works in Metropolis now, and he has every intention to go danger.

Now when starts saving people. People are going to want to know who he is. There will be pressue on the Daily Planet and Lois to get more info on the guy. And Lois will interview him. I hope its a national TV interview. Worldwide event.

He will be around.

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:34 AM   #515
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

my biggest problem is that the movie climaxes on a downer. Superman feels like he failed, and alone.

I'm fine with Supes killing Zod. I just wish that Lois' appearance had turned that scene into something hopeful; she somehow reminds him that he succeeded, and that he's not alone;. I feel that's what the script was going for; but it didn't translate.

Either that, or have the destruction of the world-machine take place afterwards; end on a triumphant note.

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #516
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my biggest problem is that the movie climaxes on a downer. Superman feels like he failed, and alone.

I'm fine with Supes killing Zod. I just wish that Lois' appearance had turned that scene into something hopeful; she somehow reminds him that he succeeded, and that he's not alone;. I feel that's what the script was going for; but it didn't translate.

Either that, or have the destruction of the world-machine take place afterwards; end on a triumphant note.
I think that is what killed the film for many. Forget bad writing, or pacing issues. There was no definitive triumphant victory. He won but there was a huge cost.

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:41 AM   #517
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I think some were ready for the move to end with the triumphant gravity beam sequence and the kiss with Lois. Then all of a sudden Zod reappears and the movie continues.

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Old 07-11-2013, 10:09 AM   #518
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

After Zod's death I would have liked to see Lois's comforting actually work, in turn reminding him that he's 'not alone'. Cue the main theme/ drums fading in.

On top of that I would have liked the family he saved to display their thanks, with the father making eye-contact with Supes while he embraces his son (ala TASM); this in turn reminds Supes that he did the right thing; that he was right to choose the humans over the kryptonians.

Supes notices that the doorways are filled with people from the street standing, simply staring in awe/thanks, ala Spider-Man 2. Nobody pulls out a smartphone or anything. We see the reaction of Supes; a great weight has been lifted off his shoulders, and he finally feels a sense of belonging. Fade out.

then cue the drones scene.


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Old 07-11-2013, 11:05 AM   #519
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

Why did they recap what happened in Krypton ? They dump a bunch of information describing events we were presented not long ago. Not the slightest trust in the audience.

That was Green Lantern-esque .

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Old 07-11-2013, 11:08 AM   #520
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

2 complaints
Wish the movie was longer so we could have gotten more Clark flashbacks.
Also would have cut the liquid metal tentacle fight Sup had with the World Engine. Unnecessary. Cool, but unnecessary.

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Old 07-11-2013, 11:11 AM   #521
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Also would have cut the liquid metal tentacle fight Sup had with the World Engine. Unnecessary. Cool, but unnecessary.
Would you have put anything else in place? Otherwise it would have just been Superman crashing into a giant machine. And that would have been too easy.

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Old 07-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #522
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Would you have put anything else in place? Otherwise it would have just been Superman crashing into a giant machine. And that would have been too easy.
I have to agree that the tentacle fight was cheesy at best... cgi was terrible...

A lot of the action sequences in MOS can be improved drastically...

Take for example, Superman rushing to destroy the World Machine, and time is of the essence (ie, he's racing against time, every second means more death), and then a couple of Kryptonians get on their fighter ships and chases Supes down... they have a fight in the air... they are trying to prevent supe from reaching the world machine, shooting lasers at him, causing him to crash into mountains and the sea, etc... slowing down his progress, and all the while the clock is ticking down... etc, etc... that could have been a lot more thrilling than just flying around some bad looking cgi tentacles...

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Old 07-11-2013, 12:23 PM   #523
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

Would have edited down some of the destruction and extended some of the Superman and Lois sequences.

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Old 07-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #524
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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"I'm 33 and grew up in Kansas. You'll never find me... You know, it's not like my secret identity was discovered by a single reporter a few days before... Heh..."

Dear god, it's the most ADD script ever.
Clark never made any attempts to hide himself from Lois (otherwise, he wouldn't use Heat Vision to heal up the cut on her stomach/save her life). If you paid attention, you'd see that the message behind her figuring out who Clark is was trust. The whole point of her figuring out his identity is that Clark trusts Lois, that trust was paid back when Lois didn't expose him to the world. SHH is bipolar, first you people bash Lois for not figuring out who the "saviour" is, and now you bash Clark for not being stealth mode and making Lois the idiot?

The only questionable thing is exposing his age and place of birth To Swanwick. But do you really think Swanwick would hunt him out? If anything, Swanwick will likely keep it quiet and trust him in the same way Superman trusts Swanwick to not spy on him. Now what would be interesting is if the trust is broken.

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Old 07-11-2013, 01:04 PM   #525
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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my biggest problem is that the movie climaxes on a downer. Superman feels like he failed, and alone.

I'm fine with Supes killing Zod. I just wish that Lois' appearance had turned that scene into something hopeful; she somehow reminds him that he succeeded, and that he's not alone;. I feel that's what the script was going for; but it didn't translate.

Either that, or have the destruction of the world-machine take place afterwards; end on a triumphant note.
Yeah I think that's my biggest problem with the ending, and why I'm having trouble understanding why Synder fought for this change, without seemingly changing anything else around the scene.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't out of character because he's killed before, plain and simply it was such a depressing end to a roller coaster ride which began with the Smallville fight. It's like Synder, whilst trying to convince Nolan Superman should kill Zod, forgot all about the films lines about hope and leading humanity into the light. It doesn't fit with any of it. It's so obviously the result of a different brain storming session to the rest of the film.
It's also sad seeing the younger versions of Clark, the kid playing with a cape in the field, to think that in this story, that kid's grows up to be someone who is revealed to the world and executes his adversary. It just doesn't sit right to me.

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