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Old 03-18-2014, 01:11 PM   #776
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Yeah, really dude. This is the complaint thread and that's what you're going to find.
You have completely misread my posts. My point isn't all criticisms are wrong at all and its not to discredit this thread. I'm simply stating that a lot of nitpicking with any film is people trying to be smarter than the material. Not that any critiscm is wrong but that people often try and rewrite a film instead of letting things go that ultimately aren't that important. That's all I'm saying on it now.

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Old 03-18-2014, 01:26 PM   #777
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  • Jor El had Kal El by natural birth so he had a choice for what he wants to do with his life, then continually tells him which life to lead, the bridge between peoples, the saviour ect...
I didnít interpret those two elements as contradictory. On the one hand, Kalís natural birth meant that he was free of the determinism imposed by genetics or the state (the status quo on Krypton). On the other, Jor had expectations for his son. Itís actually quite normal for parents to teach and counsel their children - notwithstanding that, ultimately, the children have the freedom to make up their own minds.

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Old 03-18-2014, 01:51 PM   #778
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  • Jor El had Kal El by natural birth so he had a choice for what he wants to do with his life, then continually tells him which life to lead, the bridge between peoples, the saviour ect...
The part of that I didn't understand was why Jor-El would want his wife to have a natural birth when they were both supposed to be been engineered with a specific purpose in mind. I guess that his purpose was to be a scientist and he went too far?

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Old 03-18-2014, 02:00 PM   #779
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You have completely misread my posts. My point isn't all criticisms are wrong at all and its not to discredit this thread. I'm simply stating that a lot of nitpicking with any film is people trying to be smarter than the material. Not that any critiscm is wrong but that people often try and rewrite a film instead of letting things go that ultimately aren't that important. That's all I'm saying on it now.
Yeah, it's like me going to the "what did you like about MOS" thread just to randomly state how people like everything that's on a screen as long as it has action. Not that every praise is wrong of course. Just sayin' you know.

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Old 03-18-2014, 02:04 PM   #780
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The part of that I didn't understand was why Jor-El would want his wife to have a natural birth when they were both supposed to be been engineered with a specific purpose in mind. I guess that his purpose was to be a scientist and he went too far?
Genetically engineered people still carry full genome, that allows their offspring to have wide range of capabilities, only when the Kryptonian birthing matrix is used ("called the codex in the movie") the child's certain set of genes are "doctored" to fulfill certain specialized tasks.

In case of Kal El, this was not the case so he was technically capable of choosing his own path.

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Old 03-18-2014, 02:14 PM   #781
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Genetically engineered people still carry full genome, that allows their offspring to have wide range of capabilities, only when the Kryptonian birthing matrix is used ("called the codex in the movie") the child's certain set of genes are "doctored" to fulfill certain specialized tasks.

In case of Kal El, this was not the case so he was technically capable of choosing his own path.

But Jor-El and the mother were not capable of choosing their own paths, so how did they choose the path that wound up getting Jor-El killed? How did they choose the path that would allow them to have a natural birth when no one else did for hundreds of years?

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Old 03-18-2014, 02:29 PM   #782
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But Jor-El and the mother were not capable of choosing their own paths, so how did they choose the path that wound up getting Jor-El killed? How did they choose the path that would allow them to have a natural birth when no one else did for hundreds of years?
They were not automatons, they were engineered to excel in science, still I assume that they could train in other fields, like hand to hand fighting techniques, using weapons etc (as shown in the movie).

There was pressure from Kryptonian society as well to perform the job they were trained to do, but they could think independently which demonstrated by Zod (who is supposed to protect Krypton and obey orders) could think of over-throwing the ruling council and stage a rebellion.

Lastly, they were capable of having a natural birth, as it is not indicated anywhere in the movie that they weren't.... though the majority of Kryptonians preferred "the birthing matrix".

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Old 03-18-2014, 05:09 PM   #783
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However, even with all the criticism that is now so much easier to voice, they still continue to make movies like Pompeii, and Need for Speed, Getaway, Grown Ups, Ride Along, etc. and even then people still go see them. I wish that when people were making movies they put more effort into it, and not just try to make money, but try to make long lasting art as well that is critically well received. I know they "try" but it seems like they half-try. When they were making Pain and Gain for example, didn't they know it was turning out pretty bad as they were filming? It seems like very few people are out there trying to make the next Citizen Kane, Godfather, Gone With the Wind, etc.

It's the same reason why people keep wasting their money on fast food crap, just like they support films that have no substance and require to turn your brain off in order to watch them.

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Old 03-18-2014, 05:11 PM   #784
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However, even with all the criticism that is now so much easier to voice, they still continue to make movies like Pompeii, and Need for Speed, Getaway, Grown Ups, Ride Along, etc. and even then people still go see them. I wish that when people were making movies they put more effort into it, and not just try to make money, but try to make long lasting art as well that is critically well received. I know they "try" but it seems like they half-try. When they were making Pain and Gain for example, didn't they know it was turning out pretty bad as they were filming? It seems like very few people are out there trying to make the next Citizen Kane, Godfather, Gone With the Wind, etc.

Another thing I think that is really weird is that you see fans and critics disagree a great deal on a huge amount of movies, for example, Ride Along was at something like 25% Fresh and Audiences were at something like 85% Fresh. I don't know if people just want to believe that the movie they spent money to see at a movie theater was funny and don't want to feel like they wasted their hard earned money and trick themselves into saying they did like it. They want to be part of the winning team and no have to admit they got played and paid to watch a bad movie.

Or if they are talking, looking around, eating popcorn, etc. and are just not fully engaged in the film and just use the movie as a background noise to the actual movie-going experience. For example, if you watch Godfather, you can't be talking to your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, etc. and worried about passing popcorn and soda and all this other nonsense because you will miss very critical points of the movie. Maybe with dumb movies they can miss more and then laugh at a few dumb jokes (which they would probably not laugh at at home after a second viewing) and that makes them think that they saw a good movie and didn't waste their money.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:12 AM   #785
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

The sad thing is that movie that try don't often make as much money as mindless dreck

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Old 03-19-2014, 01:10 PM   #786
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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You have completely misread my posts. My point isn't all criticisms are wrong at all and its not to discredit this thread. I'm simply stating that a lot of nitpicking with any film is people trying to be smarter than the material. Not that any critiscm is wrong but that people often try and rewrite a film instead of letting things go that ultimately aren't that important. That's all I'm saying on it now.
I think that's true enough.

A lot of critics who slam films like this and many others, do so because they feel something in the material is stupid or lacking. They believe that they are smarter than that, that the general audience is smarter than that... And therefore deserves better than plot holes and dumb sounding lines.

And sure, some films like Transformers for example, most people will forgive for being 'stupid' because they aren't expecting any higher level from it.

But I think the problem was, coming off the back of TDK trilogy, and in a world were superhero films in general are held to a different standard when it comes to dealing with themes, dialogue and plot in an intelligent way... A lot of people (myself included) WERE expecting a higher level from it.

Maybe that was silly, but I think that's why MOS was open to a lot of 'nit picking' from people who thought it should be smarter than that.

Because it really could have been.

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Old 03-19-2014, 07:33 PM   #787
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I think that's true enough.

A lot of critics who slam films like this and many others, do so because they feel something in the material is stupid or lacking. They believe that they are smarter than that, that the general audience is smarter than that... And therefore deserves better than plot holes and dumb sounding lines.

And sure, some films like Transformers for example, most people will forgive for being 'stupid' because they aren't expecting any higher level from it.

But I think the problem was, coming off the back of TDK trilogy, and in a world were superhero films in general are held to a different standard when it comes to dealing with themes, dialogue and plot in an intelligent way... A lot of people (myself included) WERE expecting a higher level from it.

Maybe that was silly, but I think that's why MOS was open to a lot of 'nit picking' from people who thought it should be smarter than that.

Because it really could have been.
And thats fine thats your opinion. As I said my comments weren't to say people were wrong with theor critisiscms just that alot of nitpicking is peopke trying to be smarter than wgats in front of them. Again it doesn't only apply to this film.

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Old 03-20-2014, 02:25 AM   #788
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I've got a complaint. This movie was TOO AWESOME. Every time I see it, it gets better. Could you tone it down a bit next time Snyder.


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Old 03-21-2014, 03:50 AM   #789
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I'm kinda bummed no one responded to my post here.

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Old 03-21-2014, 09:08 AM   #790
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And sure, some films like Transformers for example, most people will forgive for being 'stupid' because they aren't expecting any higher level from it.
I don't get it. Why people keep bringing this up? What's wrong about having an intelligent and well scripted movie with giant robots in it?
You know what, Jurassic Park also had f***'n dinosaurs. But it also had, HEART, great script and likeable characters. Should it instead be in the vein of Bayfomers too, because it portrays a fantastical T-rex and other unrealistic creatures?
Or, what about the Terminator, Robocop, Planet of the Apes, Aliens etc.
It doesn't matter how fantastical or unrealistic the premise of a movie is. What matters is that it should foremost be well directed and just be a good movie.
Just because Hollywood is overrun by hacks in the likes of Bay, Anderson and others and are ripping us off by producing mediocre, unartistic crap, that doesn't mean we should settle for anything less than a good movie.
Ah, I miss the good ol' days of the 80's and the artistic effort people put on creating practical effects along with great characters and most importantly, heart.


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Old 03-21-2014, 10:04 AM   #791
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I'm kinda bummed no one responded to my post here.
Which post was that?

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Old 03-21-2014, 11:08 AM   #792
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I would have let Jonathan Kent live. Except for Lois & Clark and the DCAU, he seems to have to die for Clark to become Superman. He's already lost his birth parents he does not need to lose his adopted father too. He's not Batman or Spider-Man, he not supposed to be a hero defined by tragedy.

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Old 03-21-2014, 05:44 PM   #793
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Which post was that?
It was more like an essay. Lol. It's not really a huge deal. I just spent like an hour typing it up, and it got ignored in the midst of the whole "people nitpicking movies" discussion. It's on page 31, just before your post about the podcast actually.


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Old 03-22-2014, 03:02 AM   #794
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Here it is.
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I would've HATED that. Superman kills for a romance? Yuck. It feels disgusting to even think it.

I'd change the opening, develop Zod more, make a cleaner Krypton. Kal is born, they name him, we cut to Zod who is sitting in his home alone, show him having violent flashbacks of robotic creatures with symbols on their foreheads attacking krypton, killing people, even Zod's family, the flashbacks are brief, but just enough to see the Kryptonian council surrender to their attacker, a dome enclose over Kandor and make it disappear, Zod is haunted and angry. Jor-El is studying problems in the planet's core, but their computers say everything is fine, Jor-El asks Zod to come with him to check a fault line, as a scientist needs to be accompanied by a soldier when going to like the outer lands, access military equipment or whatever, just as a soldier needs authorization by a scientist to access scientific equipment, they talk, it's clear they're friends, Jor-El tells Zod about his son, Zod tells Jor-El that he knows a natural birth is illegal, suddenly an earthquake erupts, causing Jor-El to quickly check his readings, they're off the charts. Jor-El and Zod quickly rushes back to his lab to check his main computers, which are all reading things as fine, he digs deeper into the programming and finds the same symbol that was on the robotic creatures head embedded into the computers programming, corrupting it. Jor-El is horrified, Zod is furious, yelling about how that thing destroyed their families, their brightest city, and now it's destroyed THEM, Zod blames the council for bowing to the thing and proclaims them weak. Jor-El warns the council, as Zod rallies any soldiers loyal to him to save their world while they still can, he does so easily, they attack the council headquarters and take them out, Zod finds Jor-El, and asks him to help him save their world through allowing access to the Codex. The codex is a computer chip, essentially it's the brain, it has info on everything, from the genetic code from which all kryptonian children are created, to the entire history of Krypton and all its knowledge, and the how to build and operate a terraforming device called the World Engine, as such a thing has been illegal for a long time due to it requiring a planet with an already habitable environment and thus life. Jor-El refuses Zod, saying he will not allow Zod to destroy a entire race, Jor-El escapes, accesses the codex, steals it and goes to Lara, telling her they have to leave, Jor-El has set a warning for the planet to give them time to escape, but doubts they'll be able to as a military security system destroys any ship entering or leaving krypton, but Jor-El has a plan: a space probe, small enough to sneak past the security systems, but big enough to carry maybe one person, or one person and a baby, he sends Lara and Kal-El to the probe, she does, begrudgingly, as Jor-El gives her the codex and tells her he has to distract Zod's men to keep them from the probe, Lara is wounded fatally, maybe by Faora, but she gets into the probe with Kal-El and takes off, Zod captures Jor-El, and sees the probe doing that teleporting thing, he puts two and two together and takes Jor-El prisoner, gets on a large ship with his army, and shuts down the security systems, so he can track the ion trail or whatever sciency mumbo jumbo before disipates, Jor-El, though, has thought ahead, and damaged the teleportation device thing, making it so it would trap them temporarily in the "phantom zone" between the teleportation destinations, giving the trail time to disipate so they can't track it. Zod, furious, kills Jor-El, maybe, not sure, and we cut to Earth, where the probe crashes in Kansas at night, near a farm, Jonathan and Martha come out, Lara, barely alive, opens the probe, and they find her, Jonathan tries to save her, but she dies, her last words asking them to protect her son.

A few other things, some development for Lois, making her a bit of a low level reporter, a bit of big skeptic, maybe the whole story could be told through the words of Lois writing the story. Her arc could be about her seeing how someone like Clark can bring hope to the world. She could also win her first pulitzer.

Jonathan dies a different way, a tornado collapses a building, which a teenage Clark holds up, Jonathan's wounded, but he tells him it's not serious, he's lying so Clark won't try to save him and compromise the stability of the building which could endanger anyone else alive under it, this could be how Clark also discovers his x-ray vision can't see through lead, this could also be after an argument where Clark says he wants to help people after 9/11, and gets angry at Jonathan...

Zod maybe dies differently, make a big deal out of it, he could sucked into the phantom, which without a ship, would destroy the body, maybe, make this the reason Clark wants to live in the normal world with people, so he won't allow something like that to happen again, so he won't think of himself as above life and humanity.

Obviously develop the Clark/Lois relationship some more, a talk over coffee maybe.

Lois does not discover Superman is Clark, she gets close, but he comes to her asking her to stop. She does. However he reveals himself as Clark to her at the end of the movie when hired to the Daily Planet, and she recognizes him as both Clark and Superman. Same end line. Welcome to the planet.

Also develop the world's reaction to Superman more.

And two post credit scenes, one for Lex, implying they found another kryptonian (Kara) and maybe some kryptonite. The other scene for Batman.

And maybe Jimmy Olsen.
Any thoughts? At all?

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:07 AM   #795
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Here it is.Any thoughts? At all?
I do agree thar Zod trying to kill Lois at the end would have been a bad idea. Infact it would have been one more Lois rescue that wasn't needed. The film had a decent amount of that anyway.

I don't think Krypton needed more development in this film but a Krypton prequel would be amazing.

I kind if like your Jonathan Kent death. I do like how its done in MOS but I felt it could have been edited better.

I like the rest as it happened, Lois knowing Clark's secret was a superb idea for me.

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Old 03-22-2014, 07:14 AM   #796
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I do agree thar Zod trying to kill Lois at the end would have been a bad idea. Infact it would have been one more Lois rescue that wasn't needed. The film had a decent amount of that anyway.

I don't think Krypton needed more development in this film but a Krypton prequel would be amazing.

I kind if like your Jonathan Kent death. I do like how its done in MOS but I felt it could have been edited better.

I like the rest as it happened, Lois knowing Clark's secret was a superb idea for me.
She would still know. But it's Clark's choice for her to know in this scenario. Her finding out strips Clark of the choice of telling her and the trust in thier relationship that that shows. The krypton parts were more to develop the characters and set-up Brainiac, did you catch that part? It's also a great opportunity to showcase Jor-El and Zod's freindship, and give a deeper motivation to his character, whilst also giving a real reason as to why the parents don't go with Kal.

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Old 03-22-2014, 07:52 AM   #797
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She would still know. But it's Clark's choice for her to know in this scenario. Her finding out strips Clark of the choice of telling her and the trust in thier relationship that that shows. The krypton parts were more to develop the characters and set-up Brainiac, did you catch that part? It's also a great opportunity to showcase Jor-El and Zod's freindship, and give a deeper motivation to his character, whilst also giving a real reason as to why the parents don't go with Kal.
I disagree that he should tell her, she's a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter. I felt her character came across much better that she was able to figure it out for herself.

Brainiac? But why set him up when he has nothing to do with this film? I think it works better that the film is a tight story without any loose ends.

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Old 03-22-2014, 09:33 AM   #798
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I disagree that he should tell her, she's a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter. I felt her character came across much better that she was able to figure it out for herself.

Brainiac? But why set him up when he has nothing to do with this film? I think it works better that the film is a tight story without any loose ends.
It's Clark's secret. She has no right to that information unless he chooses to divulge it to her. That moment where he trusts someone completely with everything that he is is vital to Clark as a character and to the person he trusts it with. It's unbelievably insulting to both characters. And you missed that I said she would come close but he would ask her not to go into it. It doesn't effect her abilities at all. The whole movie is one giant loose end. What I did isn't a loose end, as he wouldn't be in the story. A loose end would be for the opening sequence to be about Brainiac and then have him never brought up again in the story after that. Which isn't what I did. It's a set-up for future adventures. Which only enhances the movie-going experience and engages the audience even more with their curiousity. I'm also just gonna say that I heinously dislike Lois being generically pre-packaged. It's just another way the superhero movie industry is insulting love-interests. Lois has nothing to develop into. She has nothing to offer as a character to her development.


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Old 03-23-2014, 01:26 AM   #799
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

Didn't Lois show her character and that Clark CAN trust her when she chose to scuttle the story? Sorry, I just don't see your point.

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Old 03-23-2014, 02:43 AM   #800
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

first, big ups to you for having the balls to put your ideas out there.
People here can be quick to **** on other people's ideas.
We can disagree without being discourteous. I don't agree
with a lot of what you say, but hey, good on you for the effort.


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Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
I'd change the opening, develop Zod more, make a cleaner Krypton. Kal is born, they name him, we cut to Zod who is sitting in his home alone, show him having violent flashbacks of robotic creatures with symbols on their foreheads attacking krypton, killing people, even Zod's family, the flashbacks are brief, but just enough to see the Kryptonian council surrender to their attacker, a dome enclose over Kandor and make it disappear, Zod is haunted and angry.
Interesting, could be achieved thru flashbacks in a subsequent film, great way to bring back Shannon as Zod. I definitely agree that Brainiac should
be a future SM villain.

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Jor-El is studying problems in the planet's core, but their computers say everything is fine, Jor-El asks Zod to come with him to check a fault line, as a scientist needs to be accompanied by a soldier when going to like the outer lands, access military equipment or whatever, just as a soldier needs authorization by a scientist to access scientific equipment, they talk, it's clear they're friends, Jor-El tells Zod about his son, Zod tells Jor-El that he knows a natural birth is illegal, suddenly an earthquake erupts, causing Jor-El to quickly check his readings, they're off the charts. Jor-El and Zod quickly rushes back to his lab to check his main computers, which are all reading things as fine, he digs deeper into the programming and finds the same symbol that was on the robotic creatures head embedded into the computers programming, corrupting it. Jor-El is horrified, Zod is furious, yelling about how that thing destroyed their families, their brightest city, and now it's destroyed THEM, Zod blames the council for bowing to the thing and proclaims them weak. Jor-El warns the council, as Zod rallies any soldiers loyal to him to save their world while they still can, he does so easily, they attack the council headquarters and take them out, Zod finds Jor-El, and asks him to help him save their world through allowing access to the Codex. The codex is a computer chip, essentially it's the brain, it has info on everything, from the genetic code from which all kryptonian children are created, to the entire history of Krypton and all its knowledge, and the how to build and operate a terraforming device called the World Engine, as such a thing has been illegal for a long time due to it requiring a planet with an already habitable environment and thus life. Jor-El refuses Zod, saying he will not allow Zod to destroy a entire race, Jor-El escapes, accesses the codex, steals it and goes to Lara, telling her they have to leave, Jor-El has set a warning for the planet to give them time to escape, but doubts they'll be able to as a military security system destroys any ship entering or leaving krypton, but Jor-El has a plan: a space probe, small enough to sneak past the security systems, but big enough to carry maybe one person, or one person and a baby, he sends Lara and Kal-El to the probe, she does, begrudgingly, as Jor-El gives her the codex and tells her he has to distract Zod's men to keep them from the probe, Lara is wounded fatally, maybe by Faora, but she gets into the probe with Kal-El and takes off, Zod captures Jor-El, and sees the probe doing that teleporting thing, he puts two and two together and takes Jor-El prisoner, gets on a large ship with his army, and shuts down the security systems, so he can track the ion trail or whatever sciency mumbo jumbo before disipates, Jor-El, though, has thought ahead, and damaged the teleportation device thing, making it so it would trap them temporarily in the "phantom zone" between the teleportation destinations, giving the trail time to disipate so they can't track it. Zod, furious, kills Jor-El, maybe, not sure, and we cut to Earth, where the probe crashes in Kansas at night, near a farm, Jonathan and Martha come out, Lara, barely alive, opens the probe, and they find her, Jonathan tries to save her, but she dies, her last words asking them to protect her son.
Hmmmmm. To be honest the way Snyder let it play out in the film worked for me.
I loved the depiction of Krypton, it really did give the impression of a dying world on the brink of destruction. The codex stuff probably could have been tightened up a little bit overall, but I was okay with it.
The fact that Krypton was doomed, that its core was collapsing, just like its civilization was (hence the short civil war and genetic stagnation) added a real sense of urgency to everything Jor El did.
Most important, it was because the Kryptonians had put genetic controls and limits on themselves, that was part of the problem, that they really did destroy themselves - that of itself was an improvement on the original story (like in SM the movie, they were just stupid about the end of Krypton, but in MOS, they caused it themselves). That really worked for me, as in Jor El wasn't just wanting Kal to escape from the doomed planet but to escape from the restrictions of Kryptonian culture that doomed its civilization.


So, have to disagree with you there. Plus, when Lara arrived on Earth she'd become indestructible and would probably survive - given that on Earth Superman can pretty much die and come back to life, that might not work.

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A few other things, some development for Lois, making her a bit of a low level reporter, a bit of big skeptic, maybe the whole story could be told through the words of Lois writing the story. Her arc could be about her seeing how someone like Clark can bring hope to the world. She could also win her first pulitzer.
the Lois telling the story technique was used a little bit during MOS, when she's tracking him down. I suppose her winning her first Pulitzer for telling Superman's story might be a good story element. I kind of like it that she put the story out there, but after meeting Clark decided to pull it, made her more human and relatable.


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Jonathan dies a different way, a tornado collapses a building, which a teenage Clark holds up, Jonathan's wounded, but he tells him it - it 's not serious, he's lying so Clark won't try to save him and compromise the stability of the building which could endanger anyone else alive under it, this could be how Clark also discovers his x-ray vision can't see through lead, this could also be after an argument where Clark says he wants to help people after 9/11, and gets angry at Jonathan...
hmmm. I didn't find the Jonathan death scene completely satisfactory either. I feel like there's just a few little tweaks that would have made it better - it did seem like it was. I mean, if Clark had run out there at super-speed, would people really have gone "Wow a super-fast alien !" no, they were a bit too busy cowering under the overpass and being terrified by the tornado. It just felt like Snyder had to tweak it, in some ways the death of Pa Kent in the original was powerful, because it highlighted that while Clark had godlike powers, he didn't have the power to bring back the dead (well, not until the end of the film, but let's not go there).
I think your idea has some merit, and totally agree some tweaking was certainly needed on that scene. It was okay in the film, but with a little work they could have made it incredibly powerful !

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Zod maybe dies differently, make a big deal out of it, he could sucked into the phantom, which without a ship, would destroy the body, maybe, make this the reason Clark wants to live in the normal world with people, so he won't allow something like that to happen again, so he won't think of himself as above life and humanity.
Before I saw MOS, I was totally "Superman does not kill " but when I saw MOS, within the context of the story, I had to admit it made total sense.
He didn't kill Zod to save that family, he killed Zod to save humanity - as Zod was planning to wipe us out.
I haven't heard a single suggestion about what he could have done instead that would have effectively solved the problem.

However, with a bit of re-writing, as in if Zod vs Supes was happening simultaneously with Col Hardy's bombing run on the Kryptonian ship, then maybe Supes could have punched Zod and knocked him into the black hole before it closed.

Regardless, the way it turned out worked for me. I was okay with Superman killing Zod, it was a tough choice and he didn't want to do it,
and was deeply affected by it - and hopefully they'll expand on that in
later films. I think it was Goyer saying that sometimes the right thing to
do is also the hardest thing to do, and there are consequences to making that choice.

To anyone who says "Superman does not murder" First, Superman has killed in the comics. Second, in pretty much every common law country, killing someone else, if defending others from being killed by them is a form of self-defence, which is a justification for use of force on another.
As such, no court would find Superman guilty of murder.
So, is Superman a murderer for killing Zod ? No he is not.


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Obviously develop the Clark/Lois relationship some more, a talk over coffee maybe.

Lois does not discover Superman is Clark, she gets close, but he comes to her asking her to stop. She does. However he reveals himself as Clark to her at the end of the movie when hired to the Daily Planet, and she recognizes him as both Clark and Superman. Same end line. Welcome to the planet.
I actually liked that they dealt with the "Lois is fooled by the glasses" thing from the first moment, by having her find him. I thought it was a good way of having them meet - she tracks him down. In fact, her knowing who he was, and deciding not to out him made her a much better character.

I haven't liked any of the versions of Lois on-screen so far, but Amy Adams brought intelligence and guts to the role. Definitely the best acted and best written Lois Lane.

So, essentially, I disagree, but I respect the idea. That last line was perfect, Welcome to the planet. Nice.


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Also develop the world's reaction to Superman more.
yeah, even a few scenes of rebuilding would have been good, something to show the interval between Zod's death and the final scene.
Something at least that the world realises that there's still an alien in their midst. Avengers did a good job of this, so MOS didn't need to do a media montage, it could have been more subtle. However, they did do it, it needed to be less jarring of a transition.

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And two post credit scenes, one for Lex, implying they found another kryptonian (Kara) and maybe some kryptonite. The other scene for Batman.
Yeah, but realistically, I don't think they knew where they were going to go until MOS had come out, and they'd got idea of how people reacted to it.
They'd have to have a crystal ball to really think through those things, especially Luthor and Kryptonite.

Besides, that post-credit scenes stuff is what we've come to expect from
Marvel, I think DC/WB can afford to be different (although the post-credits scene in Green Lantern was better than most of the film).

Personally, I think Marvel is trying to do a bit too much with its post credits scenes. I mean, at the end of the Wolverine, that scene with Xavier and Magneto, that's long enough to tack on to the end of the film. Post-credits scenes should be short.

The Avengers post-credit scene, with Thanos, was good. That **** with the Collector after Thor TDW, was awful !

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And maybe Jimmy Olsen.
Would need a really good actor to play him, as generally Jimmy is Superman's most annoying sidekick.

So all in all, I would let the movie mostly stand as is, without putting in most of your changes, but I think you have a point there.

Even the best movies have a few flaws. I loved MOS, but I agree that some tweaks would have made it even better.

cheers

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