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Old 06-26-2013, 02:07 AM   #76
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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then, more mindless fighting and massive destruction, giving more rooms for the haters to complain till no end???

and most important, how to end the movie??? another phantom zone???
The movie should've ended with when they all got sucked to the black hole.

Have Superman final fight with Zod to take place during that scene somehow.

To have another massive fight with Zod after all those big action scenes was just not needed.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:10 AM   #77
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Ok, let me explain...my problem with that scene was NOT the fact that superman killed Zod.I was okay with it.

The execution of that sc ene that was just dumb.He killed Zod because he was about to incinerate those people cowering in the corner, right? at least it seemed that way to me...so, waht, he couldn't just grabbed Zod and fly away somewhere else?
Let me ask you this if superman tried to fly way with Zod what's keeping Zod from counter flying the opposite direction? They would still be deadlocked. On top of that if superman would have giving Zod even and inch that family would be crispy and delicious.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:16 AM   #78
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Let me ask you this if superman tried to fly way with Zod what's keeping Zod from counter flying the opposite direction? They would still be deadlocked. On top of that if superman would have giving Zod even and inch that family would be crispy and delicious.
Ehmm..i don't follow...

ANY other possible scenario that they can come up with other than that whole situation in that train station would be better IMO.

They should not have come up with that scene in the first place, which is my point and give Superman a better reason/scene to kill Zod

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:25 AM   #79
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I think it's been pointed out in other threads but this bears repeating at least this one time just for the sake of having people hear about it.

When coming up with ending, according to Snyder and Goyer they felt that just tossing Zod and all his crew back into the Phantom Zone was really boring, plain, and not worthy of this new retelling of the Superman tale. It had to end with something surprising and bigger, something that would really be seen as potentially divisive amongst fans and viewers and they came up with the idea - a first draft if you will - of Kal killing Zod to end it once and for all. They approached Christopher Nolan with the idea and instantly he was like "No, you can't do that, there's just no way it'll work, Superman doesn't kill (for the most part, but that idea comes from so many people with "Donner-vision" I suppose) and there's no way you can make it feasible in the film" or words to that effect.

So Snyder and Goyer asked if they could come up with a plausible reason for Kal killing Zod, would Nolan consider it and he said sure, he was open to ideas but was going to stand by his decision (as a producer he did/does have a lot of power but not absolute "put my foot down you're not going to do this" kind of power) until otherwise convinced.

Snyder and Goyer worked on it, came up with the ending (as filmed and shown in the theatrical release) and when they presented it to Nolan and he read it, apparently it was good enough for him because he changed his stance (broke his own rules, go figure) and said he was ok with it:

They made it plausible for Kal to kill Zod even in spite of more of us coming to that realization that Zod actually forced Kal to do it and not it just being something Kal did to save people. Zod wanted to die - I'm fully convinced of that now after many repeated viewings and paying more careful attention to the specific dialogue presented and the fact that Zod several times basically makes it abundantly clear that he would never stop, never.

He even says it one final time just before Kal kills him.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:33 AM   #80
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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The movie should've ended with when they all got sucked to the black hole.

Have Superman final fight with Zod to take place during that scene somehow.

To have another massive fight with Zod after all those big action scenes was just not needed.
you do know that people jumped up and complaint when they thought that's the end after the black zero being suck into the black hole. they only quietly sat down in embarrassed when they saw General Zod rise from the debris...
people love the final show down!!!

and i think Zod ending is superbly well done.
remember Faora's line: "a good death is its own reward"

Zod is rewarded well after he has lost all his things including his soul.

perfect!!!

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:38 AM   #81
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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you do know that people jumped up and complaint when they thought that's the end after the black zero being suck into the black hole. they only quietly sat down in embarrassed when they saw General Zod rise from the debris...
people love the final show down!!!
Really? people in your theatre? good for them

And yeah..final showdowns are cool, the problem with this one that it came too late and at the tail end of MUCH better action scenes in the movie, so as a result, it lost it's intended impact...

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and i think Zod ending is superbly well done.
remember Faora's line: "a good death is its own reward"

perfect!!!
Sure, i have ZERO problem with Clark killing Zod, it's how it was done that bothered me.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:42 AM   #82
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Superman didn't kill anyone in the cartoons. Nobody was in those buildings when Superman fought Captain Marvel.
Not in those scenes.. but have you seen all of Justice League?? There are so many episodes where superman killed wantonly... the biggest when he was up against the nazis.. he was blowing their planes out of the skies.. he kill them like faora killed the soldiers, hand to hand, etc, etc.. prob killed hundreds of them... plus, countless other episodes...


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exactly what i thought. they are honorable fighters. they wouldn't take innocents as ransom and demand the hero to surrender. they fight to win.
Like i said, they don't just go out and KILL for Killing's sake.. they have one thing in mind, get what they want and they'll do anything to get it.. for instance, they'll threaten the whole world to get Kal El.. they'll threaten martha to get info, but once they get it, they move on... and they'll destroy the entire planet when they want to terrraform it.. not because they want to kill ppl... see what i mean?

Once Zod's mission is lost, he wants to simply die...

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Old 06-26-2013, 03:41 AM   #83
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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Not in those scenes.. but have you seen all of Justice League?? There are so many episodes where superman killed wantonly... the biggest when he was up against the nazis.. he was blowing their planes out of the skies.. he kill them like faora killed the soldiers, hand to hand, etc, etc.. prob killed hundreds of them... plus, countless other episodes...




Like i said, they don't just go out and KILL for Killing's sake.. they have one thing in mind, get what they want and they'll do anything to get it.. for instance, they'll threaten the whole world to get Kal El.. they'll threaten martha to get info, but once they get it, they move on... and they'll destroy the entire planet when they want to terrraform it.. not because they want to kill ppl... see what i mean?

Once Zod's mission is lost, he wants to simply die...
I own the complete series on video. You are referring to this scene from "A Savage Time". Note that the scene shows the pilots parachuting out of their planes, which indicates that they were not killed. The may not have shown it in every case, but knowing the policy of the Justice League, all of those pilots more than likely parachuted out.

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Old 06-26-2013, 06:10 AM   #84
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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I own the complete series on video. You are referring to this scene from "A Savage Time". Note that the scene shows the pilots parachuting out of their planes, which indicates that they were not killed. The may not have shown it in every case, but knowing the policy of the Justice League, all of those pilots more than likely parachuted out.
There are scenes where he used his heat vision bringing down planes and you see them exploding without anyone parachuting down.. it'll be too fast for anyone to parachute down anyways...

Also, there were scenes superman using his hand to whack soldiers (killing them most likely with his super powered stregth)... tanks being blown up,.. etc..

in other scenes (not that episodes), submarines blown up, spaceships blown up, etc, etc... i wished i had jot down all the killing.. but they are all there.. in plain sight and no one even cares...

also, if your logic holds (ie, if we don't see ppl dying, then they didn't die), then what's the problem with the whole destruction in MOS ? Did you see anyone die when supe crashes into buildings? why not just assume everyone got out of the way in the last min?

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Old 06-26-2013, 09:13 AM   #85
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There are scenes where he used his heat vision bringing down planes and you see them exploding without anyone parachuting down.. it'll be too fast for anyone to parachute down anyways...

Also, there were scenes superman using his hand to whack soldiers (killing them most likely with his super powered stregth)... tanks being blown up,.. etc..

in other scenes (not that episodes), submarines blown up, spaceships blown up, etc, etc... i wished i had jot down all the killing.. but they are all there.. in plain sight and no one even cares...

also, if your logic holds (ie, if we don't see ppl dying, then they didn't die), then what's the problem with the whole destruction in MOS ? Did you see anyone die when supe crashes into buildings? why not just assume everyone got out of the way in the last min?
That's true, but you can't assume they die because there are other scenes where they are parachuting out. That was done to give you an idea that the were not dieing. Like I said before, they did not do that in every scene because it would have looked silly. We all know the policy of the Justice League (at least in the animated series) is not to kill. That's the problem that some people are having here. The see someone crashing into a building bringing it down and they assume that people died because there must have been people in the building. The World Trade Center went down more than 10 years ago, and only 3000 people or so were counted dead. That's because most of the people (close to 50 thousand) evacuated or did not even show up that morning. I said this before two. If you see an object (a world engine in this case) crashing to the ground and start smashing cars and buildings within a 1 mile radius, you'd best believe that people evacuated all of the buildings that were still standing (and that would have been before Superman and Zod faced off).

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:51 PM   #86
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I only had a few nitpicks, like Emil Hamilton dying. Pa Kent being dead again. And Superman learning to fly when he's 33. Especially how he learns it. All of his powers he learned accidentally, they would just simply manifest at certain points of his life. So him just trying to fly, not knowing that he can, was kinda weird. It's as if he thought "Hey, I have so many powers, let's see if the power of flight is one of them."

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Old 06-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #87
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

We have no 100% verifiable proof that Hamilton is dead, or Hardy, or Faora, or any of the Kryptonians that appeared to be sucked back into the Phantom Zone along with a few new people as well. We can assume they're all dead because of none of them being encased in that protective capsule-like thing shown way back on Krypton which was used as a transport pod to get them in there but... I prefer to just think that perhaps, maybe perhaps some of those characters could be seen again.

I mean, if Brainiac makes an entrance at some point, surely he's technologically capable of cracking open the Phantom Zone if needed, right?

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:49 PM   #88
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

To be honest I think they're dead especially Ha,Olson, he wouldn't be able to breath in the atmosphere in the PZ unless its something that puts you into a kind of stasis

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Old 06-27-2013, 12:00 AM   #89
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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I only had a few nitpicks, like Emil Hamilton dying. Pa Kent being dead again. And Superman learning to fly when he's 33. Especially how he learns it. All of his powers he learned accidentally, they would just simply manifest at certain points of his life. So him just trying to fly, not knowing that he can, was kinda weird. It's as if he thought "Hey, I have so many powers, let's see if the power of flight is one of them."
That's justifiable. Clark was living very much by Pa Kent's philosophy that he should hide, hence the wandering. Even after he gets the suit and flies for the first time he still hitchhikes back to Smallville to not draw attention to himself.

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Old 06-27-2013, 12:58 AM   #90
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I recall in one Justice League commentary that they even joked about Superman killing the Nazis without swastikas in the World War II episode.

I really don't have a problem with him killing, as long as it's treated appropriately.

Or if he's killing Nazis. If you can't kill Nazis, who can you kill?

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Old 06-27-2013, 01:00 AM   #91
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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I only had a few nitpicks, like Emil Hamilton dying. Pa Kent being dead again. And Superman learning to fly when he's 33. Especially how he learns it. All of his powers he learned accidentally, they would just simply manifest at certain points of his life. So him just trying to fly, not knowing that he can, was kinda weird. It's as if he thought "Hey, I have so many powers, let's see if the power of flight is one of them."
Superman not becoming Superman until he's 33... or Clark Kent becoming a reporter for that matter, bugs me.

Seems like something he'd do in his college years.

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Old 06-27-2013, 01:11 AM   #92
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Superman not becoming Superman until he's 33... or Clark Kent becoming a reporter for that matter, bugs me.

Seems like something he'd do in his college years.
Maybe the Donner-style Superman, or even the Superman of canon/comic book origins, but not this retelling of Superman which is what most people keep pulling back into the situation: the comparisons with what's come before and it doesn't matter at this point, this is all new for the most part and not based on anything prior.

Kal/Clark (from what we can tell) left Smallville at some point after Jonathan's death to find his way in life, and higher education simply wasn't something he cared that much about given his secret. Man can you imagine the crap he'd have to put up with at the college level from people picking on him? Just because he's a man at 19, 20, etc doesn't mean that kind of treatment stops when you go to college - in fact on many levels it just gets worse.

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Old 06-27-2013, 01:18 AM   #93
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Well, they didn't really explore his intelligence. He's obviously not an idiot, but in some continuities, he has superhuman intelligence (depending on the writer). It might have been interesting to see that explored.

I can only assume he got some higher education off screen, otherwise I can't see him getting a job at the Planet.

I think I (and perhaps others) expect him to become Superman in his early 20's, since that's when he reached adulthood.

This Superman kind of seems like a late bloomer. Which I guess is okay... it just makes you wonder what he did for a decade. I guess not much is the logical answer.

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:32 AM   #94
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I thought it was strange how Hardy/Hamilton's "deaths" were glossed over.Granted,they may still be alive,but Supes made no real inquiry as to if they could be retrieved from the PZ.I just think they should've spelled it out a bit more clearly.

A couple other questions that crossed my mind after seeing it a 2nd time.

Why was that other Kryptonian with Faora that fought Superman over 9 feet tall?I'm pretty sure he was the only one.And don't tell me he was bred that way as a warrior.If that was the case Zod should be just as tall.

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:35 AM   #95
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

I think he just happened to be really tall.

Or perhaps, there are different type of soldiers? Commander types, and grunt types?

More likely, he was just big boned.

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:44 AM   #96
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

That 9ft tall Kryptonian was Nam Ek in the novelisation it suggest his dna may have been spliced with that of a Rondor beast and that's why he's so big

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:49 AM   #97
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Superman not becoming Superman until he's 33... or Clark Kent becoming a reporter for that matter, bugs me.

Seems like something he'd do in his college years.
Ya... late 20s sound better.

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:52 AM   #98
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That 9ft tall Kryptonian was Nam Ek in the novelisation it suggest his dna may have been spliced with that of a Rondor beast and that's why he's so big
Thanks.

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Old 06-27-2013, 02:59 AM   #99
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Default Re: What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

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That 9ft tall Kryptonian was Nam Ek in the novelisation it suggest his dna may have been spliced with that of a Rondor beast and that's why he's so big
Ha ha love it. I'm going to read this novel.

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Old 06-27-2013, 03:04 AM   #100
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I only had a few nitpicks, like Emil Hamilton dying. Pa Kent being dead again. And Superman learning to fly when he's 33. Especially how he learns it. All of his powers he learned accidentally, they would just simply manifest at certain points of his life. So him just trying to fly, not knowing that he can, was kinda weird. It's as if he thought "Hey, I have so many powers, let's see if the power of flight is one of them."
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That's justifiable. Clark was living very much by Pa Kent's philosophy that he should hide, hence the wandering. Even after he gets the suit and flies for the first time he still hitchhikes back to Smallville to not draw attention to himself.
Yeah, the change in Pa Kent telling him to hold back changes all that. If you're used to seeing him discover his powers throughout his life in other stories, like in the animated series, you do miss that and have to get used to it.

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Superman not becoming Superman until he's 33... or Clark Kent becoming a reporter for that matter, bugs me.

Seems like something he'd do in his college years.
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Ya... late 20s sound better.
Well, they wanted to tie it all in with Jesus, so...

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