The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > TV Series > Misc. TV Series

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2013, 05:10 AM   #26
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 6,147
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Wait... so as long as you're taught evil by someone else, you're not evil? Even if you're a grown man with the ability to evaluate what you were taught, to choose how to pursue your goals, if you choose to pursue your goals in the most murderous way possible, and you do so without remorse, you're not evil, unless no one has hurt you badly in the past? In that case... what fictional villain has ever been evil? And what do we call these remorseless killers who try to destroy the world and create something they think will be better? Good guys? Tarrlok's final action is much like Hitler - it is not a fear of what would happen, but an understanding of what will not happen. A realization that the final defeat has taken place. There is nothing left to live for. There would never be another day in the sun, even though Amon kept talking like there was. Better to end our misery now. Otherwise, he would have tried to kill his brother sooner, if he had done it because he was a good person all along.

On Korra, the threat to the protester was definitely because she felt attacked without cause. It wasn't because she didn't like the guy, or even had some intellectual issue with what he was saying, the only problem was that he was telling her she was a bad guy. She responded from that place. She didn't physically attack him either, did she? Why not? Why didn't she jump straight to physical violence?

On the Tarrlok fight, it appears that she thought that he was trying to kill her, so she responded in kind. The fight wasn't over because he fell down, any more than she would expect him to relent if she fell down. They weren't in a tournament. A person who had great legal recourse had just tried to kill her. It didn't make any sense intellectually or emotionally to relax and let him have a day in court. It turns out, she was absolutely right. The fight was not over at all, and no one with any real power would believe she had been attacked by such a respectable person.

In each case, she responds with equal force. She's not a pacifist. Not all good guys, not all heroes are pacifists. Some people who live in a violent world fight fire with fire. If we're willing to call remorseless murderers not evil because their daddies beat them up, how can we not give a by to the girl who has gotten her only opening against a superior opponent intending to kill her?

And the comparison to Katara is just wrong. Katara hunted down an old man - something Korra wouldn't do, by the way. Korra was in the middle of a fight with a superior opponent.

And Iroh was like his brother until Iroh's son died.

And Ozai's father was about to kill his wife. That's all we know about their relationship... that's an indication it was not good, further supported by the fact that Ozai's father was raised by Sozin, the traitorous megalomaniacal avatar-killing conqueror who upset the balance of the world in the first place, but we're supposed to think he might have a balanced family? The one decent parent the Fire Nation ever showed was exiled. The Fire Nation culture got explicit commentary. If childhood absolves a villain of being evil, then the Avatar franchise has never had a villain outside of perhaps Long Feng, and I can't think of many other franchises outside of Silence of the Lambs that actually have evil villains by that standard.

Also, is that video sped up? Their voices sound sooo weird!

__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas -
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."

Last edited by DrCosmic; 06-26-2013 at 05:31 AM.
DrCosmic is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 05:18 AM   #27
blksuperman2
Deadly Akuma
 
blksuperman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Black Krypton
Posts: 5,800
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
Katara was given that crossroads. Given it with the man that killed her father. A much more emotional situation. We saw how that turned out. Aka, Aang was right again.

General ideologies of different people doesn't make something right imo, nor does it define every individual. Iroh is a fine example of this. He grew up in the same fire nation as his brother. He isn't like him in the least.
The fire Nation (Again different Ideologies) was shown to be a fierce group of people who were all pretty much aggressors. Yes, there were many who had compassion but for the most part they all had a need for power. Who knows how Iroh would have turned out had his son not died. Ozai seemed to only change once he became firelord same for his grandfather. Maybe it's just apart of firebending and how the power is easily corruptable.

My point is that the one other example of a Southern Waterbender female reacted similarily to Korra. Korra was manipulated and her life was threatened. I think she'd be pretty emotional as well.

__________________
Our story begins with the death of Huo Yuan jia



My website :My NEW Fan Art thread
blksuperman2 is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 05:56 AM   #28
DarthSkywalker
We Are Hunter Rider
 
DarthSkywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 26,927
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by blksuperman2 View Post
The fire Nation (Again different Ideologies) was shown to be a fierce group of people who were all pretty much aggressors. Yes, there were many who had compassion but for the most part they all had a need for power. Who knows how Iroh would have turned out had his son not died. Ozai seemed to only change once he became firelord same for his grandfather. Maybe it's just apart of firebending and how the power is easily corruptable.

My point is that the one other example of a Southern Waterbender female reacted similarily to Korra. Korra was manipulated and her life was threatened. I think she'd be pretty emotional as well.
Ozai made a play for the Firelord set. He was already on that path.

And Korra letting her emotions get the best of her is ok? Trying to kill someone because you have allowed yourself to be emotionally compromised is ok?

__________________
"You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."
DarthSkywalker is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 06:34 AM   #29
DarthSkywalker
We Are Hunter Rider
 
DarthSkywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 26,927
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Wait... so as long as you're taught evil by someone else, you're not evil? Even if you're a grown man with the ability to evaluate what you were taught, to choose how to pursue your goals, if you choose to pursue your goals in the most murderous way possible, and you do so without remorse, you're not evil, unless no one has hurt you badly in the past? In that case... what fictional villain has ever been evil? And what do we call these remorseless killers who try to destroy the world and create something they think will be better? Good guys? Tarrlok's final action is much like Hitler - it is not a fear of what would happen, but an understanding of what will not happen. A realization that the final defeat has taken place. There is nothing left to live for. There would never be another day in the sun, even though Amon kept talking like there was. Better to end our misery now. Otherwise, he would have tried to kill his brother sooner, if he had done it because he was a good person all along.
It is the argument of nature vs. nurture, morality, freedom of choice and a question of what freewill actually is.

If you are raised a certain why, taught something is right, then what exactly makes it wrong? If it is a question of morality, each individual has there own. If someone is raised to believe that cutting off another person's head is what their God wants them to do and is never taught differently, what makes that wrong? For me, an individual's morality is key. How Ozai acts before and after Aang goes into the state in their final battle is key. Ozai knows what he is doing is wrong. Attempting to murder a young boy. And yet he fears his own death and still taunts Aang for not killing him. Then attempts to kill Aang again.

One of the reasons why a character like Darth Vader is "evil" is because he knows what he is doing is wrong, but he is choosing to do it, embrace it for his own benefit. But that is also why he is able to change. To go back and save his son, and choose to be "good" again. Think about Aang in the State. Was he responsible for his actions before he learned to control it?

(By the way, the current run of Captain America explores this pretty well imo. Perhaps there is a natural, instinctive idea that something is wrong, that is manifested physically, even if you have been taught differently your entire life.)

One of my favorite episodes of Angel covered the idea of pure, naturally born evil in the first season episode "I've Got You Under My Skin". A mass murdering evil demon possesses a boy, and they Angel gang attempts to expell the demon, only to find out that the demon was attempting to escape the entire time. Why? Because of the inherent evil of the boy. The demon who has taken more lives then you can count was running from the boy. And we know, some people are simply born that way. Science and medicine like to call it something mentally wrong, but perhaps that is just who they are and were always intended to be. That is what an Azula is too me. I don't see Tarrlok or Amon that way at all.

Also, wouldn't say Tarrlok thought they were "defeated" at all. Makes no sense really. They could simply dissappear or just continue to rampage if that is what they wanted. Who exactly was going to stop a pair of brothers who can steal bending and bloodbend multiple people at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
On Korra, the threat to the protester was definitely because she felt attacked without cause. It wasn't because she didn't like the guy, or even had some intellectual issue with what he was saying, the only problem was that he was telling her she was a bad guy. She responded from that place. She didn't physically attack him either, did she? Why not? Why didn't she jump straight to physical violence?
By her own admission she wants to hurt the guy. Why? Because she doesn't like his words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
On the Tarrlok fight, it appears that she thought that he was trying to kill her, so she responded in kind. The fight wasn't over because he fell down, any more than she would expect him to relent if she fell down. They weren't in a tournament. A person who had great legal recourse had just tried to kill her. It didn't make any sense intellectually or emotionally to relax and let him have a day in court. It turns out, she was absolutely right. The fight was not over at all, and no one with any real power would believe she had been attacked by such a respectable person.
Except she does. She makes a show out of taunting and threatening him. If this is life or death, do or die in Korra's mind still, why does she stop to make fun of him? Explain that. Explain why she isn't on him as quick as possible.

You can't say she didn't have time to think about it, that the fight wasn't over in her mind. It clearly was. Watch the scene. She makes a show out of it. It is specifically written to make everyone think she has defeated him, and he has no hope.

WHY ELSE HAVE THE COMMENT ABOUT HIM NOT HAVING ANY WATER LEFT TO USE?

Yes, all caps because everyone is avoiding how the scene is written. It is done so to explicitly make Korra and the audience think Tarrlok is done and at her mercy, only to be saved by something no one could have seen coming. It is the whole point of the reveal. It is why they show the moon isn't full at the end. Why are we ignoring this?

Also, considering she attempting to act as some form of law enforcement, even though she isn't, you think it is ok to execute or seriously injury someone you believe you have subdued? So if a a group of cops subdue a criminal on the street, and he has made them angry, they can just sit him up and shoot him in the head?

Cops bring in people that try to kill them all the time. Aang did it. I mean they built the final episode around that very idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
In each case, she responds with equal force. She's not a pacifist. Not all good guys, not all heroes are pacifists. Some people who live in a violent world fight fire with fire. If we're willing to call remorseless murderers not evil because their daddies beat them up, how can we not give a by to the girl who has gotten her only opening against a superior opponent intending to kill her?
I honestly can't remember if Tarrlok or Amon actually killed anyone. Took bending away? Yes. But killed? Their father killed.

And you are misrepresenting the scene and Korra. First, Korra is the Avatar. Her morality is important. Just like Aang, just like Roku, etc. It also can't be missed that Korra was never able to actually access the Avatar State before Aang gave it to her. There is clearly something wrong with he methodology. The girl can't airbend. Why? Because she is too aggressive, too violent. Her spiritually is completely out of whack. This is just one example of this. The two shows haven't really been ambiguous on murder. It is a bad thing. It has also been established that there is a difference between killing and murder. What Korra would have done would have been murder.

Second, it wasn't some opening. She thought he was done, finished, and she wanted to hurt him for herself. To make herself feel better. That is very different from not being a pacifist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
And the comparison to Katara is just wrong. Katara hunted down an old man - something Korra wouldn't do, by the way. Korra was in the middle of a fight with a superior opponent.
Both had men at their mercy. Only one had had their mother murdered in front of their eyes by that man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
And Iroh was like his brother until Iroh's son died.
If Iroh was like his brother beforehand, he wouldn't have had a loving relationship with his son. He couldn't be that kinda of man. Did his son's death make him reflect on his life and goals? Most definitely. But he was not like his brother beforehand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
And Ozai's father was about to kill his wife. That's all we know about their relationship... that's an indication it was not good, further supported by the fact that Ozai's father was raised by Sozin, the traitorous megalomaniacal avatar-killing conqueror who upset the balance of the world in the first place, but we're supposed to think he might have a balanced family? The one decent parent the Fire Nation ever showed was exiled. The Fire Nation culture got explicit commentary. If childhood absolves a villain of being evil, then the Avatar franchise has never had a villain outside of perhaps Long Feng, and I can't think of many other franchises outside of Silence of the Lambs that actually have evil villains by that standard.
You misrepresent the boys childhood. There is a big difference between my daddy hit me, and living in a perpetual state of fear. You think that material was there for no reason?

And Iroh grew up right alongside Ozai. First son, probably had it worse. A man with a good soul. The fire nation was harsh. But the vast examples of morality shown by people who grew up and lived together show there was clearly more to it.

Also how Zuko turns out is very important. How much of that is Iroh and his mother's influence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Also, is that video sped up? Their voices sound sooo weird!
Yes it is. Probably for copyright reasons.

__________________
"You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

Last edited by DarthSkywalker; 06-26-2013 at 07:12 AM.
DarthSkywalker is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 08:14 AM   #30
Victarion
Cut
 
Victarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,117
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

I'll comment about the lack of water, then: Korra was going to make sure Tarrlok didn't get the fool notion of going after her later. I can't blame her for that--especially if she could've found a way to pin the murder on Amon to destabilize his support base. I think that, no matter what, we will disagree on what qualities make a good hero. I personally found Aang too soft of a hero.

To address Amon taking away bending: it is as bad as killing. The foulest crime, in my mind, is removing one's ability to engage in an action. Even if I don't condone such an action myself. Thus, Amon was a selfish demagogue that needed to be put in his place.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Trevorrow
But with all this talk of filmmakers “ruining our childhood”, we forget that right now is someone else’s childhood. This is their time.
Victarion is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 11:08 AM   #31
Charlie Boy
Modern Messiah
 
Charlie Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 6,198
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
No word on Books 3 or 4. Barely anything on book two.

I don't dislike the character of Korra. I like her, she has a lot going for her, and her faults add plenty of character. I just find it odd that people defend her actions because they are fans. I agree, Korra has a ways to go.

Which is why the end of season 1 bothered me. In theory, it is a perfect set up for Korra to find herself. Left with only the ability to bend air, she'd have to truly embrace her spiritual self. Great setup for a season entitled Spirit. And then they added those last couple of minutes. It is shame.


Amon's stance was actually very sound imo. The benders have created a class system they rule. It is inherently flawed. His methods aren't great. But that isn't what I am referring to.


There intentions and actions are meaningless. They were give little chance from the start. Their father tortured and taught them a way of life. Turned them into something wretched. They are Frankenstein's monster, not Frankenstein.

Do you blame the vicious dog who has been trained to fight who attacks a child? No, I blame those that taught the dog to be that way. The same for young children who are raised and brainwashed into believing that killing others for their God is the "right way" to live their lives.

They aren't evil to me. The men that taught them that are the evil ones. That is why, when give the chance to live and start over, Tarrlok makes the decision that he does. He knows they can't be normal. Would a evil person take his life and the life of the one person he loves in the whole world, to essentially protect others? I don't think so. That wasn't a Hitler in the bunker, afraid of what would happen when the Allies got their hands on him.


There is absolutely no indication that Ozai was raised in a hostile or bad environment. If anything, his childhood was like Azula's.

And while Zuko was tortured, Azula was treated like she walked on water. So spoiled, to the point that even her father realizes she has gotten a bit of out hand near the end. This is the little girl that enjoyed torturing her little brother, and would not embrace a loving mother. Her mental state breaks imo, because she can't handle not being on top. The Golden child who couldn't possibly lose. Once her little world was shattered, she lost it. Like the athlete who has trouble adjusting after their playing career is over. Some turn to gambling, others drink and drugs. Not good.


When is the last time you saw the scene? Here it is again, starts at the :35 second mark.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


After she tosses him and does her big ol' Earthbending smash, which is completely unnecessary, she specifically says he has no water. For a waterbender against another bender, this is being unarmed and she knows it. She sees him crawling away in fear, and she is still walking him down.

Now does she Earthbend him into the ground like Aang? You know, block his arm movements to completely subdue him? No, she decides she is going to attack a man she believes can't fight back with fire.

Please tell me how he isn't apparently disarmed by Korra? Korra has no idea he can bloodbend, much less without a full moon. The entire point of the scene is for Tarrlok to look helpless, unarmed, to setup his bloodbending. It is the exact reason why Korra says the line "What are you going to do now? You're all out of water pal". The dialogue is there for a very specific reason, as is Tarrlok's crawling away and Korra's stalking of her prey. Because without water, against another bender, he is unarmed. And then, when Korra is about to do some serious damage, he does the one thing he doesn't want to do, and uses bloodbending. And the audience is in complete shock.

So who exactly is basing their argument in reality, and who is using loopy logic?
I had a lengthy reply written out and miraculously my phone lost it. I gotta assume for whatever the reason, it was a sign. So, to you and your ridiculous argument, I say "**** it". Believe what you like.

__________________

Ou La La, Très Bien, Magnifique

@DomEsclovon
Charlie Boy is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 11:54 AM   #32
DarkSovereignty
Wubba Lubba Dub Dub
 
DarkSovereignty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Shatterdome
Posts: 13,884
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Yep, definitely miss king madness.

__________________
http://dapperfowl.wordpress.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateJustin View Post
To alot of people, especially kids my age who grew up in Bush's America, TDK is kind of like our Woodstock. I'm not an idiot.
DarkSovereignty is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 12:22 PM   #33
Charlie Boy
Modern Messiah
 
Charlie Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 6,198
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

He was annoying, but at least he wasn't so pompous or self righteous. He just had sexual thoughts about a young cartoon character. Truly the lesser of the two evils.

__________________

Ou La La, Très Bien, Magnifique

@DomEsclovon
Charlie Boy is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 01:14 PM   #34
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 6,147
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
It is the argument of nature vs. nurture, morality, freedom of choice and a question of what freewill actually is.

If you are raised a certain why, taught something is right, then what exactly makes it wrong? If it is a question of morality, each individual has there own. If someone is raised to believe that cutting off another person's head is what their God wants them to do and is never taught differently, what makes that wrong? For me, an individual's morality is key. How Ozai acts before and after Aang goes into the state in their final battle is key. Ozai knows what he is doing is wrong. Attempting to murder a young boy. And yet he fears his own death and still taunts Aang for not killing him. Then attempts to kill Aang again.

One of the reasons why a character like Darth Vader is "evil" is because he knows what he is doing is wrong, but he is choosing to do it, embrace it for his own benefit. But that is also why he is able to change. To go back and save his son, and choose to be "good" again. Think about Aang in the State. Was he responsible for his actions before he learned to control it?

(By the way, the current run of Captain America explores this pretty well imo. Perhaps there is a natural, instinctive idea that something is wrong, that is manifested physically, even if you have been taught differently your entire life.)

One of my favorite episodes of Angel covered the idea of pure, naturally born evil in the first season episode "I've Got You Under My Skin". A mass murdering evil demon possesses a boy, and they Angel gang attempts to expell the demon, only to find out that the demon was attempting to escape the entire time. Why? Because of the inherent evil of the boy. The demon who has taken more lives then you can count was running from the boy. And we know, some people are simply born that way. Science and medicine like to call it something mentally wrong, but perhaps that is just who they are and were always intended to be. That is what an Azula is too me. I don't see Tarrlok or Amon that way at all.

Also, wouldn't say Tarrlok thought they were "defeated" at all. Makes no sense really. They could simply dissappear or just continue to rampage if that is what they wanted. Who exactly was going to stop a pair of brothers who can steal bending and bloodbend multiple people at the same time.
Their cover/plan was laid bare, there was a small army. They would never again rule Republic city and any attempt at Revolution was impossible. Yes, they could win fights, but their objective was not to win fights. Their plan, their life's mission of avenging their father's honor and mission was completely and irrevocably gone. Their goal was never to rampage, so being able to rampage was meaningless. Perhaps Amon hadn't realized that yet, but Tarrlok had.

Tarrlok and Amon understand that what they are doing is wrong. They believed it was for the greater good. This is true of most good villains, Darth Vader included. He knew the methods he was using were wrong, but he wanted to bring peace to the galaxy.

If we go by the individuals standard, then Superman is a villain and Lex Luthor is a hero. That's pretty loopy, and that's what happens when you use subjective evil. Subjective evil is understandable in perhaps children, people who have not grown up and learned to see the natural consequences of actions and decide for themselves whether something is good or evil. Giving Amon and Tarrlok the intellectual responsibility of children is silly to me. Hold them accountable for the decisions they've made all their lives instead of acting like their father who is long dead had control of them.

Quote:
By her own admission she wants to hurt the guy. Why? Because she doesn't like his words.
She doesn't like his accusation, and this happens to most non-pacifists who are deeply insulted. Korra's just honest and vocal about it.

Quote:
Except she does. She makes a show out of taunting and threatening him. If this is life or death, do or die in Korra's mind still, why does she stop to make fun of him? Explain that. Explain why she isn't on him as quick as possible.

You can't say she didn't have time to think about it, that the fight wasn't over in her mind. It clearly was. Watch the scene. She makes a show out of it. It is specifically written to make everyone think she has defeated him, and he has no hope.

WHY ELSE HAVE THE COMMENT ABOUT HIM NOT HAVING ANY WATER LEFT TO USE?

Yes, all caps because everyone is avoiding how the scene is written. It is done so to explicitly make Korra and the audience think Tarrlok is done and at her mercy, only to be saved by something no one could have seen coming. It is the whole point of the reveal. It is why they show the moon isn't full at the end. Why are we ignoring this?

Also, considering she attempting to act as some form of law enforcement, even though she isn't, you think it is ok to execute or seriously injury someone you believe you have subdued? So if a a group of cops subdue a criminal on the street, and he has made them angry, they can just sit him up and shoot him in the head?

Cops bring in people that try to kill them all the time. Aang did it. I mean they built the final episode around that very idea.
No one is avoiding anything. Fights to the death aren't over when the person can't attack. You keep saying that he couldn't attack, I've explained why that's not relevant. Who's ignoring who?

You also compare apples to oranges. Korra was not acting as law enforcement when talking to Tarrlok, if she was ever. Also, in that situation, she would be the criminal, not Tarrlok, and he was not subdued he simply was supposedly unable to attack for the time being. Someone being on their butt not being able to attack for perhaps a short period of time - it turned out VERY short - is a great deal different than someone sitting cuffed in the back of a squad car.

Also, Korra was right to attack, and her taunting her opponent whom she trusted before he betrayed her and everything she stands for doesn't change that, so I'm not sure why we're still going back and forth about this.

Quote:
I honestly can't remember if Tarrlok or Amon actually killed anyone. Took bending away? Yes. But killed? Their father killed.
Korra didn't kill anyone either. She attacked what she thought was a opponent with an critical opening.

Quote:
And you are misrepresenting the scene and Korra. First, Korra is the Avatar. Her morality is important. Just like Aang, just like Roku, etc. It also can't be missed that Korra was never able to actually access the Avatar State before Aang gave it to her. There is clearly something wrong with he methodology. The girl can't airbend. Why? Because she is too aggressive, too violent. Her spiritually is completely out of whack. This is just one example of this. The two shows haven't really been ambiguous on murder. It is a bad thing. It has also been established that there is a difference between killing and murder. What Korra would have done would have been murder.
I just plain disagree. The fight wasn't over. Your opponent not being able to attack you doesn't mean the fight is over unless you're in a martial arts tournament or those rules agreed upon before hand.

And if we're looking at her as the Avatar, herself as Aang is the one that gave her this problem, both the practical issue of Amon and the spiritual issue of refusing to make a choice. They're the same person. Her spirituality is Aang's spirituality.

Quote:
Second, it wasn't some opening. She thought he was done, finished, and she wanted to hurt him for herself. To make herself feel better. That is very different from not being a pacifist.
I disagree. She did want to hurt him, as anyone would if they'd just been betrayed and someone was trying to kill him, but there was no reason for her to think anything would be okay if she didn't finish the fight that he started.

Quote:
Both had men at their mercy. Only one had had their mother murdered in front of their eyes by that man.
And only one was in the middle of a fight.

Quote:
If Iroh was like his brother beforehand, he wouldn't have had a loving relationship with his son. He couldn't be that kinda of man. Did his son's death make him reflect on his life and goals? Most definitely. But he was not like his brother beforehand.
Ozai had a loving relationship with his daughter.

Quote:
You misrepresent the boys childhood. There is a big difference between my daddy hit me, and living in a perpetual state of fear. You think that material was there for no reason?
No there is no difference. If my dad keeps hitting me, I live in a perpetual state of fear. This is how some people grow up. But we don't say they aren't wrong to hit their children. We hold adults accountable for figuring things like The Golden Rule out. Amon and Tarrlok never cared to. Their choice, not their father's.

Quote:
And Iroh grew up right alongside Ozai. First son, probably had it worse. A man with a good soul. The fire nation was harsh. But the vast examples of morality shown by people who grew up and lived together show there was clearly more to it.

Also how Zuko turns out is very important. How much of that is Iroh and his mother's influence?
How much of it is his personal decision? That's the part you're ignoring, and that's a little scary if applied outside of cartoondom.

__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas -
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."

Last edited by DrCosmic; 06-26-2013 at 01:58 PM.
DrCosmic is offline  
Old 06-26-2013, 10:29 PM   #35
blksuperman2
Deadly Akuma
 
blksuperman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Black Krypton
Posts: 5,800
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
Ozai made a play for the Firelord set. He was already on that path.
You're looking at it like it's black n white. Iroh = Good, Ozai = Bad. I think both characters had more in common than just being brothers. Yes Ozai may have schemed to take Iroh's birthright much like Jacob & Esau from the bible but Ozai just seemed to be a product of living up to his lineage. Both were shown to be different characters prior to their father dying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
And Korra letting her emotions get the best of her is ok? Trying to kill someone because you have allowed yourself to be emotionally compromised is ok?
When did she try to kill someone? She's the Avatar, I'm pretty sure if she wanted to kill she'd have no problem doing so. Yes, she was pissed off and a little out of control but at no point does it appear that she was intending to kill.

__________________
Our story begins with the death of Huo Yuan jia



My website :My NEW Fan Art thread
blksuperman2 is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 07:08 PM   #36
MagnarTheGreat
The Avatar
 
MagnarTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,387
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

This Korra drought has to end. It must end. For the good of all our peoples.

MagnarTheGreat is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 08:19 PM   #37
DarkSovereignty
Wubba Lubba Dub Dub
 
DarkSovereignty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Shatterdome
Posts: 13,884
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

It is a dark time, a desolate time. A time without avatar.

__________________
http://dapperfowl.wordpress.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateJustin View Post
To alot of people, especially kids my age who grew up in Bush's America, TDK is kind of like our Woodstock. I'm not an idiot.
DarkSovereignty is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 08:22 PM   #38
Tron Bonne
Diane, I'm Coming Back
 
Tron Bonne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Year 70XX
Posts: 26,134
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

But I see dozens, maybe even hundreds, of avatars here everyday.

__________________
"When you see a John Woo film, it's comforting to know how shallow the world really is. The full force of the manly coolness factor with a peice of nose hair sticking out from the tiny crack between manly and cool, exposes the thinness of the male hormone factor. It takes an idiot to do cool things. That's why it's cool."

Quote:
I was a North American Fall Webworm in my past life. Those were the good old days.
Tron Bonne is offline  
Old 06-27-2013, 08:52 PM   #39
BlackMagicWolf
He who is BlackMagic
 
BlackMagicWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,743
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Agreed, we need news, we need footage, we need a date of Season 2's arrival!

Until then I'll just write my Avatar story...

__________________
A dream of mine has come true, I wrote a comic called Guardians, and it's available for purchase. And the prologue issue is FREE!

Check it out! Then check out our Facebook page! Also, we're on Twitter! @Guardians_Comic
BlackMagicWolf is offline  
Old 06-28-2013, 09:55 AM   #40
Spidey-Bat
Ours is the Fury
 
Spidey-Bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sudden Valley
Posts: 39,143
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
It also can't be missed that Korra was never able to actually access the Avatar State before Aang gave it to her.
Aang didn't give her the ability to enter the Avatar State, he restored her bending. Connecting with her spirituality (which we see through her meeting Aang) is what made her capable of entering the Avatar State.

Spidey-Bat is offline  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:23 AM   #41
Victarion
Cut
 
Victarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,117
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

I guess the spirit enemies indicates that her newfound spirituality will be put to the test in Book 2.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Trevorrow
But with all this talk of filmmakers “ruining our childhood”, we forget that right now is someone else’s childhood. This is their time.
Victarion is offline  
Old 06-29-2013, 11:18 AM   #42
Tanin
Tsukino Usagi
 
Tanin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 4,965
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3


__________________
The Shredder? Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw.
A good death is its own reward
Dead or alive, you're coming with me!
Tanin is offline  
Old 06-29-2013, 11:36 AM   #43
Charlie Boy
Modern Messiah
 
Charlie Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 6,198
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Awesome.Hope we get to see as much of Tenzin's siblings as we saw of his kids last season.

__________________

Ou La La, Très Bien, Magnifique

@DomEsclovon
Charlie Boy is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 09:36 AM   #44
sandwraith
The Trailblazer Awakens
 
sandwraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,853
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

I'm actually rather interested to know how Korra's immediate family ties in with the story. I think there was some rumor that went along the lines of how Korra's family is split between a Shamanic side (which I guess is indicated by her cousins) and the Warrior side which is represented by Korra and her father, thus why Korra's dad is shown to be a real big tough dude.

It actually makes me impressed that there is more to Korra's legacy than just her being the Avatar. Its like how Roku wasn't just the Avatar, he also happened to be a Noble in the Fire Nation with close ties with the Royal Family. I hope this gets really fleshed out. In fact I hope the entire "Avatar" angle is secondary to Korra's direct familial legacy.

__________________
You're never finished with me...
sandwraith is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:16 AM   #45
BlackMagicWolf
He who is BlackMagic
 
BlackMagicWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,743
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

I too will be interested in learning more about Korra's family. That's one thing that we couldn't do with Aang because of him being lost for a long time. It will be interesting to see what they do......you know, when it actually comes back!

__________________
A dream of mine has come true, I wrote a comic called Guardians, and it's available for purchase. And the prologue issue is FREE!

Check it out! Then check out our Facebook page! Also, we're on Twitter! @Guardians_Comic
BlackMagicWolf is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:08 PM   #46
sandwraith
The Trailblazer Awakens
 
sandwraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,853
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

SDCC will be as good a time as any for new reveals and maybe even a trailer? SDCC for the longest time seems to be Nickelodean's only convention of choice so I think they'll do their best to generate interest in the series for new fans and sate the thirst for content from old fans.

Looking at some of the comments from several different forums it's kind of sad to see how divided the fanbase is but to each his/her own. We all can't possibly love/hate the exact same things for the exact same reasons.

__________________
You're never finished with me...
sandwraith is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:12 PM   #47
Tron Bonne
Diane, I'm Coming Back
 
Tron Bonne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Year 70XX
Posts: 26,134
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

What are you talking about

__________________
"When you see a John Woo film, it's comforting to know how shallow the world really is. The full force of the manly coolness factor with a peice of nose hair sticking out from the tiny crack between manly and cool, exposes the thinness of the male hormone factor. It takes an idiot to do cool things. That's why it's cool."

Quote:
I was a North American Fall Webworm in my past life. Those were the good old days.
Tron Bonne is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:18 PM   #48
sandwraith
The Trailblazer Awakens
 
sandwraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,853
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne View Post
What are you talking about
Mainly the divide between the ATLA fans and the LoK fans, the shippers, the new series hopefuls vs. the naysayers....I dunno.

Is it just me or do you find as a fandom matures it generates more consumers who are difficult to please and almost stick to a franchise solely to ***** about it? I get that feeling a lot about Transformers and the divisions in that fandom almost feel like a schism is occuring with every new iteration of the franchise.

__________________
You're never finished with me...
sandwraith is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:22 PM   #49
Tron Bonne
Diane, I'm Coming Back
 
Tron Bonne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Year 70XX
Posts: 26,134
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Seems that Korra has been pretty well received from older fans to me. There may be people who liked TLA over it, but for the most part, it seems like it's pretty well liked all around.

__________________
"When you see a John Woo film, it's comforting to know how shallow the world really is. The full force of the manly coolness factor with a peice of nose hair sticking out from the tiny crack between manly and cool, exposes the thinness of the male hormone factor. It takes an idiot to do cool things. That's why it's cool."

Quote:
I was a North American Fall Webworm in my past life. Those were the good old days.
Tron Bonne is offline  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:29 PM   #50
sandwraith
The Trailblazer Awakens
 
sandwraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,853
Default Re: Avatar: The Legend Of Korra - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne View Post
Seems that Korra has been pretty well received from older fans to me. There may be people who liked TLA over it, but for the most part, it seems like it's pretty well liked all around.

Oh you should have been here a year ago.


Anyway, what's past is past. July 19th isn't too far off...here's hoping we get some juicy content.

__________________
You're never finished with me...
sandwraith is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.