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Old 06-15-2014, 06:58 PM   #476
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
Eh,that's the popular line
Because it's the truth.

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but it was a funny scene meant to be played for laughs.
It was about as funny as leprosy.

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Personally,I didn't find it half as lame as the "Punch me,I bleed!" line or trying to get a drink/canape for the 57th time scene in SM2.
Yes, one corny line, and Peter missing the canopy tray twice is the same thing as drawn out goofy dance scenes

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Originally Posted by random_havoc View Post
The whole movie was horrible. Horrible.
This is like people trying to defend Batman and Robin to me.
There's only one Spider-Man movie that has comparable traits to Batman and Robin and it's not SM-3.

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Re watch him dancing like an idiot and try and say that to me again with a straight face.
And there was enough of a tone shift that I liked the 2nd one and wanted to punch everyone involved in the 3rd.
I agree with you about the dancing. There is no defense for it. It was beyond stupid and cringe worthy. How the 90's cartoon show handled Peter when he had the symbiote was much better. Even the Spectacular Spider-Man show nailed it.

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:00 PM   #477
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

With Batman and Robin I find there's not even 1 or 2 good scenes in there. Nothing. But at least with Spider-man 3 there are several great moments that I enjoy watching over and over. The fights,the crane accident,all of Jameson's moments,Sandman's birth,the black suit first taking over Peter,Venom's birth,etc,etc. There are some great emotional moments as well.
Spidey 3 may have alot of flaws,but it's nowhere near as bad as Batman and Robin. For me,it's not even a bad movie. Just a flawed one.

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:14 PM   #478
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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Because it's my opinion.It was about as funny as leprosy.
.
Fixed.



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Yes, one corny line, and Peter missing the canopy tray twice is the same thing as drawn out goofy dance scenes .
I could also mention gems like the closet scene (where Peter was on the clock to deliver a pizza and decides to play with the mops for 15 minutes.Even I wanted to dope slap Raimi for that one.).

The fact is SM 2 had MORE OTT "cheese" than SM3.It's not that 3 hasn't any,but SM2 had more "heart tuggers" to leaven it.People were not as emotionally invested in Sandman's sick daughter or Brock's "humiliation" and fall.So they give SM2 a pass and they glom on to SM3's "cheese" as an excuse,when SM2's cheese was even more potent.

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:24 PM   #479
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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Fixed.
No, it's the truth, that's why the majority think so. It's not like it's an unfounded or unpopular opinion. People are not pulling it out of thin air. It's a justified fact.

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I could also mention gems like the closet scene (where Peter was on the clock to deliver a pizza and decides to play with the mops for 15 minutes.Even I wanted to dope slap Raimi for that one.).
Even shoving a few mops back into a closet is not even a quarter as cheesy as the dance sequences in Spider-Man 3. If they were there would have been as big a backlash against it when it was released as there was for the dance sequences. To even suggest watching someone push a few mops back into a closet is as cheesy as those dance sequences is like saying the Joker dressed as a nurse in TDK is as cheesy as Mr. Freeze making his men sing along to Mr. White Christmas in B&R.

People's tolerance for Raimi's cheesy humor didn't suddenly change between 2004 and 2007. The fact is Spider-Man 3 amped it up ten fold. Because Raimi had no creative control over the movie is most likely why the standard slipped so badly.

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The fact is SM 2 had MORE OTT "cheese" than SM3.
Yeah, and Batman and Robin is more serious than The Dark Knight.

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It's not that 3 hasn't any,but SM2 had more "heart tuggers" to leaven it.People were not as emotionally invested in Sandman's sick daughter or Brock's "humiliation" and fall.So they give SM2 a pass and they glom on to SM3's "cheese" as an excuse,when SM2's cheese was even more potent.
It's got nothing to do with the heart tugging scenes. Whether people care about Sandman's sick daughter, or Brock's humiliation, the tone of the scenes is there to act as a balance to cheese. But the fact that there is such an imbalance is because the cheese was over amplified so much that it dwarfs the more serious scenes and moments in the movie.

For example people generally don't remember the great moment in the jazz club where Peter hit MJ because the majority of that scene is Peter cutting a rug with Gwen cheese x10 style. That's what stands out about that scene for all the wrong reasons.

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:35 PM   #480
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

The one scene that I do hate is the jazz club moment. Everything else I like and can forgive. Sure,I wish it was more awesome(maybe show Peter/Spidey kicking butt to "Back in black"),but I even like the strutting down the street scene. Like I said,the film has flaws but that jazz club scene is the only moment in the movie that is too goofy and too cheesy and doesn't belong in the movie. Would I like the movie darker? Hell yes. But everything else isn't really something that I'd consider "horrible."

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:57 PM   #481
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

I wish there is an alternate version with Peter trapping the alien costume in a box instead of ripping it in a church, no Venom is a kind of a reward

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Old 06-15-2014, 08:38 PM   #482
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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No, it's the truth, that's why the majority think so. It's not like it's an unfounded or unpopular opinion. People are not pulling it out of thin air. It's a justified fact.
It's a fact that some people hate the scene and some people (several here) have admitting to enjoying it.
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Even shoving a few mops back into a closet is not even a quarter as cheesy as the dance sequences in Spider-Man 3. If they were there would have been as big a backlash against it when it was released as there was for the dance sequences. To even suggest watching someone push a few mops back into a closet is as cheesy as those dance sequences is like saying the Joker dressed as a nurse in TDK is as cheesy as Mr. Freeze making his men sing along to Mr. White Christmas in B&R.
6 of one half dozen of the other.I can name 10 cheesey things from SM2 and you don't think they're "that bad".Yet myself (and I suppose others here) don't think the JB montage is "that bad" to ruin (let alone enjoy it) the movie.But according to you (and the late "lamented" Senator Pleasury ) it's enough to sink the movie.The bottom line is it's a subjective thing.If it's a big enough thing to spoil the movie for you,so be it.But I can't see how you can pick on one purposely comedic scene and excuse the wealth of cheese in SM2
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People's tolerance for Raimi's cheesy humor didn't suddenly change between 2004 and 2007. The fact is Spider-Man 3 amped it up ten fold. Because Raimi had no creative control over the movie is most likely why the standard slipped so badly.



Yeah, and Batman and Robin is more serious than The Dark Knight.



It's got nothing to do with the heart tugging scenes. Whether people care about Sandman's sick daughter, or Brock's humiliation, the tone of the scenes is there to act as a balance to cheese. But the fact that there is such an imbalance is because the cheese was over amplified so much that it dwarfs the more serious scenes and moments in the movie.

For example people generally don't remember the great moment in the jazz club where Peter hit MJ because the majority of that scene is Peter cutting a rug with Gwen cheese x10 style. That's what stands out about that scene for all the wrong reasons.
I have to disagree there.Everyone talks about all the Heart Tuggers,not the humor in SM2.(Aunt May's speech,Ock & his wife,Peter's confession,etc) I think if SM2 is stronger in any sense it's due to people being able to connect with Peter's "everyman" struggles with life,with work,with romance.That's what was great about the comic in it's heyday and SM2 captured that and people remember that.They don't think of the ton of cheese.Not many connect with Marko's drama,Brock's fall,Harry's losing his sanity,Peter's woman troubles (that probably hit too close to home for some),and Peter's coping with revenge/forgiveness.Hence,the comedic stuff is all they really remember.

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Old 06-15-2014, 09:08 PM   #483
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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I this poster

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Old 06-15-2014, 09:12 PM   #484
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

I loved the overall theme of the hero falling into temptation and evil. Yeah yeah it was portrayed via being emo, but just the fall and rise of a hero was awesome. And although it was predictable, I remember geeking hard when I saw Peter and Harry team up at the end. Just remembering their relationship from the first movie and growing into this, I thought it worked effectively for me.

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Old 06-15-2014, 09:25 PM   #485
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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It's a fact that some people hate the scene and some people (several here) have admitting to enjoying it.
There's people who enjoy Batman and Robin and Halle Berry's Catwoman, too.

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6 of one half dozen of the other.I can name 10 cheesey things from SM2 and you don't think they're "that bad".Yet myself (and I suppose others here) don't think the JB montage is "that bad" to ruin (let alone enjoy it) the movie.
The difference is what you consider cheesy (and they probably are cheesy what ever they are) are not half as bad as those dance montages. Nothing in the first two movies is as cheesy as they are.

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But according to you (and the late "lamented" Senator Pleasury ) it's enough to sink the movie.
Show me where I said the dance montages alone sink the movie. Good luck searching because never ever did I say that. There are many things that bring down the quality of Spider-Man 3, those dance sequences just stand out the most to people because they went on for so long and were painful to sit through.

I don't even think Spider-Man 3 is a bad movie. It's more wasted potential than bad movie. I even rate it higher than the two TASM movies. But make no mistake it is a huge step down from the first two Raimi movies, and one of many reasons for it is those dance scenes.


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I have to disagree there.Everyone talks about all the Heart Tuggers,not the humor in SM2.(Aunt May's speech,Ock & his wife,Peter's confession,etc) I think if SM2 is stronger in any sense it's due to people being able to connect with Peter's "everyman" struggles with life,with work,with romance.That's what was great about the comic in it's heyday and SM2 captured that and people remember that.They don't think of the ton of cheese.
That's because the strong emotional center of Spider-Man 2 was one of the stand out memorable things about it. It's one of the reasons why it's sitting on 94% with the critics and is constantly rated so highly.

The cheesy humor that's in it is eclipsed by the greatness. Not that all the cheesy humor is bad. Most of it works. Same as in SM-1. But with SM-3 they went overboard.

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Not many connect with Marko's drama,Brock's fall,Harry's losing his sanity,Peter's woman troubles (that probably hit too close to home for some),and Peter's coping with revenge/forgiveness.Hence,the comedic stuff is all they really remember.
I don't disagree that not many connect with many of the character stories in SM-3 because they were under written, under developed, and in the case of Peter's woman troubles MJ was horribly written. I disagree about Harry though. I think his arc was one of the strengths of the movie (in spite of the stupid what the butler saw resolution), and it's helped because it's been built up since the first movie.

But the point is even though these things were unsuccessfully executed, they are still serious toned scenes and themes in the movie. It's that the cheese is so rampant and OTT in this one that it eclipses it. Nobody is connecting to the cheesy humor either. You think people are complaining about it because they love it? Of course not. It overshadows the movie.

Spider-Man 3 was thematically supposed to be the darkest of the trilogy, yet it comes off as the goofiest.

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Old 06-16-2014, 03:49 PM   #486
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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There's people who enjoy Batman and Robin and Halle Berry's Catwoman, too.



The difference is what you consider cheesy (and they probably are cheesy what ever they are) are not half as bad as those dance montages. Nothing in the first two movies is as cheesy as they are..
Again,that's all subjective. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong.But you're trying to put the dancing scene across as most cheesy-bar none-fact.I could-and do-think that the mop scene is by far more cringeworthy than anything in SM3
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Show me where I said the dance montages alone sink the movie. Good luck searching because never ever did I say that. There are many things that bring down the quality of Spider-Man 3, those dance sequences just stand out the most to people because they went on for so long and were painful to sit through.

I don't even think Spider-Man 3 is a bad movie. It's more wasted potential than bad movie. I even rate it higher than the two TASM movies. But make no mistake it is a huge step down from the first two Raimi movies, and one of many reasons for it is those dance scenes..
Well,no point quibbling over whether you think it's the worst scene or "one of",it's clear you and the film's detractors make it the focal point of "what went wrong" every time,when it was really just a funny scene that had little baring on the rest of the film.

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That's because the strong emotional center of Spider-Man 2 was one of the stand out memorable things about it. It's one of the reasons why it's sitting on 94% with the critics and is constantly rated so highly.

The cheesy humor that's in it is eclipsed by the greatness. Not that all the cheesy humor is bad. Most of it works. Same as in SM-1. But with SM-3 they went overboard. .
Again,that's just your opinion.I think SM2's humor is much cheesier/doesn't work much more often.Yet it doesn't get the B&R comparisons because "teh drama" was so compelling for most people.
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Spider-Man 3 was thematically supposed to be the darkest of the trilogy, yet it comes off as the goofiest.
I wouldn't say it was too goofy,but as darkness goes,it was about on par with SM 1.(Which is frankly about as dark as I'd want a Spidey film to go.)

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:30 PM   #487
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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Again,that's all subjective. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong.But you're trying to put the dancing scene across as most cheesy-bar none-fact.I could-and do-think that the mop scene is by far more cringeworthy than anything in SM3
The dance scenes are cheesy bar none. It's not like there's a divided opinion over this stuff which leaves some room for doubt that they could be misconstrued because so many people think they work. They are universally seen as bad cheesy. They are by far one of the most unpopular scenes ever put into a movie. With good reason.

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Well,no point quibbling over whether you think it's the worst scene or "one of",it's clear you and the film's detractors make it the focal point of "what went wrong" every time,when it was really just a funny scene that had little baring on the rest of the film.
It's a focal point because it's the most memorable. It's not the ONLY reason the movie is seen as weak, it's just one of the most stand out reasons why. Whole scenes dedicated to cheesy dancing. It leaves the biggest impression on people.

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Again,that's just your opinion.I think SM2's humor is much cheesier/doesn't work much more often.Yet it doesn't get the B&R comparisons because "teh drama" was so compelling for most people.
It doesn't get compared to B&R because it's not comparable to B&R. It's just silly to say it is. There's only one Spidey movie where the cheese is comparable to B&R and it's not any of Raimi's.

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I wouldn't say it was too goofy,but as darkness goes,it was about on par with SM 1.(Which is frankly about as dark as I'd want a Spidey film to go.)
It was nowhere near the level of SM-1. Spider-Man 1 had it's share of cheese but kept the cheese in check, like SM-2 did, and let the drama carry the movie.

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Old 06-17-2014, 06:42 AM   #488
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

With the Raimi films the drama was cheesy too, I think that was always my issue with it

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