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Old 07-29-2013, 09:37 AM   #251
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

In the likely time traveled corrected "present" likely coming out of DOFP I just don't see
them bringing Jean back.Her death Is too much an element of the wolverine.

Cyclops Is likely one of few things being corrected as per Bryan Singer.

We don't know how much time passed between end of Last Stand and The Wolverine.We know 2 years passed from ending of film and mid-credit scene.

Bryan Singer ha said 10 years passed from ending of last stand and future In DOFP.It's likely a few years will have passed between mid-credit scene and begining of DOFP

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:39 AM   #252
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

i can't see them bringing cyclops back without jean

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:40 AM   #253
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I can.

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:46 AM   #254
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

you can't have cyclops without jean, nor can you bring back cyclops with time travel and have jean still be dead, the events of his death was based around her after all, so i think if singer corrects one thing the he will correct both

i doubt they will cop out and say cyclops didn't die in X-men 3 and he randomly turns up

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:57 AM   #255
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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you can't have cyclops without jean, nor can you bring back cyclops with time travel and have jean still be dead, the events of his death was based around her after all, so i think if singer corrects one thing the he will correct both

i doubt they will cop out and say cyclops didn't die in X-men 3 and he randomly turns up
Cyclops has plenty of stories aside from Jean. Emma Frost was a love interest for some time. Obviously that won't be the case, but you could add another love interest like Magneto's daughter or something.

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In the likely time traveled corrected "present" likely coming out of DOFP I just don't see
them bringing Jean back.Her death Is too much an element of the wolverine.

Cyclops Is likely one of few things being corrected as per Bryan Singer.

We don't know how much time passed between end of Last Stand and The Wolverine.We know 2 years passed from ending of film and mid-credit scene.

Bryan Singer ha said 10 years passed from ending of last stand and future In DOFP.It's likely a few years will have passed between mid-credit scene and begining of DOFP
How can you make that assessment based on the evidence? It's plausible no doubt, but you're reaching. So lets say Wolverine was maybe a couple of years after TLS. Makes sense. Now you have two years of traveling, so that's four years roughly. But now Logan has been on the team for the remaining six? What the hell were they waiting for all this time? There is a large time gap that needs to be accounted for. If Scott was in that after credit scene, then you could just jump right in, do a quick prologue to explain everything, and be on your way. But this unaccounted time leads me to believe that the X-Men were probably disbanded and oblivious to any any incoming threats looming.


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Old 07-29-2013, 10:08 AM   #256
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Cyclops has plenty of stories aside from Jean. Emma Frost was a love interest for some time. Obviously that won't be the case, but you could add another love interest like Magneto's daughter or something.
And how you gonna explain jean not being there? what we gonna say x3 events happened different and he stayed alive but they had to kill jean? and we are gonna skip all over heart break and have him getting new love interests and have him be fine with it

its easy to point out different comics and say well cyclops did that there but this is still a film series and certain things won't work or make sense, and even more so when your trying to bring back an audience that seems to have lost interest in this series

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:22 AM   #257
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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And how you gonna explain jean not being there? what we gonna say x3 events happened different and he stayed alive but they had to kill jean? and we are gonna skip all over heart break and have him getting new love interests and have him be fine with it

its easy to point out different comics and say well cyclops did that there but this is still a film series and certain things won't work or make sense, and even more so when your trying to bring back an audience that seems to have lost interest in this series
As I said, you can retcon the trilogy and bring them all back, but in doing so, you shatter what you developed with Logan's character from the end of X-2 on. Some of that stuff worked. Even in X-3, now that we have The Wolverine. That arc is closed and there is no reason to revisit that from a thematic standpoint.
What you could do is come full circle. Would Logan want Jean alive and happy with Scott? Yes, no question. So you can preserve that element by having Logan travel back to rescue to ones he loves. But I think you do that with the intention of setting up sequels for the OT cast, AND with the intention of moving Wolverine to a full fledged supporting/solo character for the remainder of the series, because his arc would be complete after that. Is that worth it for Fox? Or you can just give the series a happier ending and leave it at that. I'd prefer the former but am not confident that's what Fox is thinking. I don't feel Fox envisages that couple carrying another X-Men film without Wolverine front and center. I also don't agree that fan service can be provided by just shoe-horning a Scott and/or Jean cameo appearance. They have to find a perfect medium of those two.

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:29 AM   #258
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

"You can't have Cyclops without Jean" is not only not true, it's exactly what hurts Cyclops and Cyclops alone. Cause at the end of the day, Jean still has the phoenix storyarc, and the fact that she's a trophy that the golden goose (Wolverine) wants to attain.

What some people (and Fox) don't seem to realize is that Scott Summers is so much more than just Jean's lover or Logan's foil. He's a master strategist and the guy who runs field operations for the X-Men. He's a guy who's had to fend for himself from a young age, when his parents "Died". He is the heir to the dream, the closest thing Xavier has to a son. You can easily bring him back without Jean. In fact, if they bring back Cyclops, they SHOULD bring him back without Jean, and finally have him stand on his own. Jean's story is done. They've barely scratched the surface with Scott.

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:34 AM   #259
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Madelyne Pryor! but I don't see it happening any time soon, especially not in a reboot that has yet to come.

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:52 AM   #260
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

One way to bring back Scott without Jean could be to retcon the fact that Jean was mind blocked at a young age. Future Logan could drop hints to young Xavier that attempting to control people will one day backfire on him at a very personal level. Charles takes this to heart when he reads Logan's mind and sees what becomes of his future students, and never implants the mind blocks on Jean. So Dark Phoenix never manifests in X-3 and potentially returns at a much more appropriate date.

Even more outlandish, the post credit scene may already be in the altered timeline. Logan was already sent back at another date, but was unsuccessful in preventing the Sentinels, and now must be recruited again. Only this time, Cyclops and Xavier never died to the Dark Phoenix. Once the cure fails to cure willing volunteers, the government turns to Trask Industries to escalate things.


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Old 07-29-2013, 10:53 AM   #261
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

so people are expecting jean just to be retconned and scott just to act like she never existed? really?

its easy to say it like that, but would make alot more questions then anything else

honestly i think if singer brings cyclops back he will bring jean back too, and have some big moment where shows wolverine seeing them together and lets it be, there will have to be some big emotional impact for wolverine at the end of DOFP, these films usually don't end as obviously as you expect

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Old 07-29-2013, 11:00 AM   #262
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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so people are expecting jean just to be retconned and scott just to act like she never existed? really?

its easy to say it like that, but would make alot more questions then anything else

honestly i think if singer brings cyclops back he will bring jean back too, and have some big moment where shows wolverine seeing them together and lets it be, there will have to be some big emotional impact for wolverine at the end of DOFP, these films usually don't end as obviously as you expect
Yeah, a happy ending cameo that sort of closes the books on this cast of characters. Fans would still be happy with that. But if the characters are expected to see action, it doesn't really mesh. I tend to agree this is what it will be, and nothing more.

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Old 07-29-2013, 11:14 AM   #263
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Yeah, a happy ending cameo that sort of closes the books on this cast of characters. Fans would still be happy with that. But if the characters are expected to see action, it doesn't really mesh. I tend to agree this is what it will be, and nothing more.
Well having an ending where cyclops is alive and jean isn't with fans who want her back will be asking where is jean? and of course it will be expected to have some explanation to what happened which means somewhere it will have to be explained otherwise it will feel like a cop out that everything is different, not the best way to get audiences back into the fold

but if you bring back jean and scott at the end with an obvious hint that wolverine changed things in the past then you can just go on from there, everyone happy, its not quite as bad as bringing back one character but not another

obviously we don't know how it will end, i'm not expecting an obviously time travel happy ending where everything falls neatly into place and ready for a sequel, but i doubt singer will leave audiences more confused with instead of repairing he is just moving things all over the place

i'm expecting he will wrap something up even if its not in a happy way, and i ain't expecting alot of time spent in the new alternative future at the end either, if its seen at all, because they need all the time they can get for the time travel story and huge cast

and the wolverine didn't conclude jeans story at all, her story was messed up since X3

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:13 PM   #264
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Really hope to see Cyclops again. I kinda feel like we will at least for a few scenes.

He needs some really "boss" action scenes. He didn't have many in the X-Men trilogy, which is sad.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:15 PM   #265
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Yes thats why i think if he is brought back he will be in an action scene or 2 during the OT stuff, i think somehow time travel will make that possible

obviously i might be wrong but i think if singer does do it that would be the best way to bring this character back

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:21 PM   #266
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Bishop saved Scott from the Phoenix in X3, or Jean actually sent him into the future, there I just explained it.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:34 PM   #267
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

*face palms*

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Old 07-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #268
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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*face palms*
Agreed. You are not going to see any type of explanation for Scott's resurrection that's as silly as those two suggestions.

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Old 07-29-2013, 05:48 PM   #269
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I guess if cyke is to appear it'll be briefly with the OT maybe when time is changing as a result of the success of (dare I say it) wolverine in the 70s (probably wolverine as he's the only one in foxs eyes!)

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Old 07-29-2013, 06:37 PM   #270
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

The death of Scott in X3 is BIIIIG mystery..
Why Jean was down when Storm and Logan found her?
Where Scott's motorbike went?
Why his glasses here floating but his body was destroyed? (like Xaviers)
Why alkali lake was full of mist?

Actually we have no idea what Phoenix is capable.

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Old 07-29-2013, 08:43 PM   #271
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

good points.

specially the why Jean was down and where is his motorbike. Two elements that could justify the presence of another mutant on that scene.

(Sinister? ) joke appart, its a nice possibility.

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:25 PM   #272
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Agreed. You are not going to see any type of explanation for Scott's resurrection that's as silly as those two suggestions.
They could possibly re-film that scene should they deem in necessary if they decide to bring in the sinister story arc, or just simply have Scott saved by his older brother, Havok, ect. Some type of major event had to have left that much damage to the Alkali Lake area and defeated the Phoenix (why else would she be unconscious).

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:38 PM   #273
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

How is that silly exactly? The Phoenix has godlike power, sending Scott through time seems perfectly reasonably, we never saw his death or body.

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:49 PM   #274
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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How is that silly exactly? The Phoenix has godlike power, sending Scott through time seems perfectly reasonably, we never saw his death or body.
Phoenix in the movie continuity does NOT equal comic Phoenix.

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Old 07-29-2013, 11:30 PM   #275
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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How is that silly exactly? The Phoenix has godlike power, sending Scott through time seems perfectly reasonably, we never saw his death or body.
No she doesn't. She's powerful, but she isn't the comicbook Phoenix. Apart from that it is just silly to suddenly say she didn't kill Scott, but sent him to the future. It makes no sense because it's not the least bit thought out.

X3 may have been bad, but you devalue the overall story of DoFP if make it a gimmicky change like that. Messing around with that scene at all, even with a more thought out retcon is still going to be a nightmare to make it believable to an audience and not silly.

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