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Old 07-30-2013, 12:03 AM   #276
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

There is only one TRUE explanation to Scott's whereabouts my friends:

Jean must've wrapped his body "in a cocoon of telekinetic energy" and stowed his ass away at the bottom of Alkali Lake.

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Old 07-30-2013, 12:18 AM   #277
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

First of all, I don't buy that the audience won't accept it. If they accepted everything that has already happened in this series, and in Avengers, and MOS, and Star Trek, and time travel in DOFP, then this is not too much of a stretch. Second, we don't know what Phoenix was capable of because she spent most of the movie just standing around. Third, even Beast said that her power "has no limits." Saying that something is too ridiculous in a X-MEN movie is in an of itself ridiculous. I don't think that you're giving the audience enough credit. Sorry, but we disagree completely on this.

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Old 07-30-2013, 12:29 AM   #278
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I'm not underestimating the audience. If anything I'm giving them credit. I'm saying Bishop just popping up out of nowhere to save Scott or Jean magically sending Scott to the future for no good reason would be seen through for an obviously gimmicky retcon. I personally don't see anything in those other movies you list that match that level of silliness.

As for Phoenix. I wouldn't take Beast's words too literally. Phoenix was clearly established as a separate personality to Jean and not a cosmic force. There is a vast difference and Jean did not display power that would match the comic version. Other than tearing things apart at the molecular level (with bad FX imo) and levitating a lot of things she didn't do anything that suggested she could even hope to match the cosmic Phoenix of the comics.

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Old 07-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #279
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Bishop saved Scott from the Phoenix in X3, or Jean actually sent him into the future, there I just explained it.
What

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Old 07-30-2013, 02:54 AM   #280
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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The death of Scott in X3 is BIIIIG mystery..
Why Jean was down when Storm and Logan found her?
Where Scott's motorbike went?
Why his glasses here floating but his body was destroyed? (like Xaviers)
Why alkali lake was full of mist?

Actually we have no idea what Phoenix is capable.
I love all these questions, I watched x3 last night for the millionth time and I don't think I thought of these time, what did happen to make Phoenix unconscious like that?!

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They could possibly re-film that scene should they deem in necessary if they decide to bring in the sinister story arc, or just simply have Scott saved by his older brother, Havok, ect. Some type of major event had to have left that much damage to the Alkali Lake area and defeated the Phoenix (why else would she be unconscious).
They have already re filmed a sequence, the iconic Auschwitz scene, so re filming that scene so we actually see cyclops would actually explain what happened much quicker and I feel people would accept it quicker if they saw what happened off screen to cyclops.

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How is that silly exactly? The Phoenix has godlike power, sending Scott through time seems perfectly reasonably, we never saw his death or body.
However, I like this idea also, especially as DOFP playing with time and her powers limitless I think it be a nice extension of the Phoenix sage.

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Old 07-30-2013, 08:06 AM   #281
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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"You can't have Cyclops without Jean" is not only not true, it's exactly what hurts Cyclops and Cyclops alone. Cause at the end of the day, Jean still has the phoenix storyarc, and the fact that she's a trophy that the golden goose (Wolverine) wants to attain.

What some people (and Fox) don't seem to realize is that Scott Summers is so much more than just Jean's lover or Logan's foil. He's a master strategist and the guy who runs field operations for the X-Men. He's a guy who's had to fend for himself from a young age, when his parents "Died". He is the heir to the dream, the closest thing Xavier has to a son. You can easily bring him back without Jean. In fact, if they bring back Cyclops, they SHOULD bring him back without Jean, and finally have him stand on his own. Jean's story is done. They've barely scratched the surface with Scott.

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Old 07-30-2013, 08:12 AM   #282
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

totally agree.

Cyclops deserve to shine by HIS Own.

Ive read current many current comics since year 2011, and Cyclops is a really strong character. I really need to see that Cyclops on the big screen, and played by James Marsden.

and without a love interest. Just Cyclops acting as the main leader and caring for the school, his friends and all the x-men. Thats the Cyclops I need to see soon.

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Old 07-30-2013, 08:23 AM   #283
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I agree. Cyclops can be a strong character independent of others. I think it's more a fault of writers (both movies and comics at times) and directors that have failed to utilise him properly.

Though I wonder if the more recent version of Cyclops would be a good fit for future x-movies. It would certainly give Marsden (if he returns) more to do and could potentially be easier for writers and directors to implement and arguably provide a much bigger pay off for his character arc.


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Old 07-30-2013, 08:38 AM   #284
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I remember looking at X1,X2 and X3 to try and find some cool cyclops moments to turn into gifs... but hell its actually very darn hard to find any

there is cyclops in the snow in X1 where he shoots and sabertooth jumps out the way, there is the X2 scene where he blasts jean and X3 where he blasts the lake, and i suppose you can count the brief toad taking his visor at the train station and the fight at the prison just before he gets knocked out

but overall if felt like they spent alot of time trying to get cyclops out of the way, he was easy beaten, toad took his visor so he couldn't do anything, toad kicked him into that locker and shut it so he was out of the fight for a few min, then he had a brief fight with some guards in X2 which apparently marsden had to talk singer into doing and even then it was very very brief then he got his ass kicked by deathstrike right after, and then X3... no comment

and even in Origins they had him run away and taken down by Victor and was out of it for most the film

i'm a cyclops fan but i won't lie and say he was showcased in a way that audiences will think highly of, fans maybe still have a love for the character but thats as far as it goes sadly

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Old 07-30-2013, 08:41 AM   #285
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

did'nt singer want to have scott create the danger room in his supposed x3 because he felt the team was too weak

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Old 07-30-2013, 08:45 AM   #286
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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did'nt singer want to have scott create the danger room in his supposed x3 because he felt the team was too weak
dunno but that would probably have been changed to wolverine created it in the final script

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Old 07-30-2013, 09:09 AM   #287
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Most people want Phoenix back on X-Men DOFP.She need the fire bird.
Lauren Shuler loves Famke/Jean.This is the last opportunity, Famke is amazing!Famke has a double stunt in this movie, don't forget.

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Old 07-30-2013, 09:14 AM   #288
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I agree. Cyclops can be a strong character independent of others. I think it's more a fault of writers (both movies and comics at times) and directors that have failed to utilise him properly.

Though I wonder if the more recent version of Cyclops would be a good fit for future x-movies. It would certainly give Marsden (if he returns) more to do and could potentially be easier for writers and directors to implement and arguably provide a much bigger pay off for his character arc.

Since these movies love the conflicting ideology between Mags and Xavier. They could bring that down a generation and adapt the Schism storyline except with Storm instead of wolverine. Perhaps Cykes is overcome with grief by the death of Jean and turns into this tyrant, wanting to eliminate any and all potential threats against mutants before they become actual threats. Storm is obviously against this and the team will have to choose which side they want to be on. Could also introduce morally ambiguous characters to join Cyclops' team. Maybe Fantomex etc.




I think it would be a great story to bring two of the most important X-Men characters, that have been so wrongfully treated throughout the trilogy, to the forefront. It could also make Wolverine a supporting character and allow for character development for Rogue, Kitty, Bobby, Colossus plus any new mutants. That would be a film I would love to see.

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Old 07-30-2013, 09:50 AM   #289
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

really great idea, Nana. like... really really good.

Sadly, I think Singer doesnt have the balls to do a storyline like that and putting Cyclops and Storm as the pivotal roles.

And Fox is too close minded too.

Really sad, when both characters could be soooo great on screen, both as persons and as fighthers.

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Old 07-30-2013, 10:46 AM   #290
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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did'nt singer want to have scott create the danger room in his supposed x3 because he felt the team was too weak
Yes he did.

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Old 07-30-2013, 10:54 AM   #291
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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What some people (and Fox) don't seem to realize is that Scott Summers is so much more than just Jean's lover or Logan's foil. He's a master strategist and the guy who runs field operations for the X-Men. He's a guy who's had to fend for himself from a young age, when his parents "Died". He is the heir to the dream, the closest thing Xavier has to a son. You can easily bring him back without Jean. In fact, if they bring back Cyclops, they SHOULD bring him back without Jean, and finally have him stand on his own. Jean's story is done. They've barely scratched the surface with Scott.
A lot of this isn't entirely true. I'll agree that Scott doesn't require Jean to work as a character, and that they've barely scratched the surface with Scott (and a lot of the mythology, to be honest), but his relevance to the X-Men mythology was established, and several of his key character elements were seen, if not executed in the same way as the comics.

If people were paying attention, they would realize this. We've seen strategist Scott, though we saw him mostly fully formed, and we haven't seen a lot of exploration about his doubts and conflicts as a leader, though we did see some of them.

We've seen the guy originally portrayed as the heir to Xavier's dream (they all are, frankly). We just saw it mostly in X-MEN and X2, and didn't see it executed the same way it has been in the comics, and we didn't see Scott take center stage often, because that's simply not been this franchise's focus, similar to the way that it has not focused on most of the individual origins and backgrounds of the X-Men, choosing to highlight those who most represent the inherent themes of the concept of mutant fear/hatred (Rogue, Wolverine, Jean, etc), and the backstory/developmental aspects that is often considered the most psychologically interesting, those of Wolverine and Jean.

Overall, this franchise has focused on the conflict between humans and mutants, and as a result, the conflict between Xavier and Magneto. Fending for yourself at a young age is something that most of the X-Men have had to deal with, not just Scott.

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Old 07-30-2013, 11:01 AM   #292
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Okay...This time, I'm gonna really tell it like it is. As much as I want to see Jean and Phoenix back, I feel that we won't see her return until Fox decides to reboot the franchise or if the rights goes back to marvel. I'm sick and tired of reading "We need her back! blah blah and blah!" when clearly, there has been no word of Famke returning as Jean and I've already given up that hope that one day she'll be back. I'm also tired of wanting something that I know we'll never ever get to see again. The thing is, the cast itself for DOFP is pretty much full. Its too big and to shoehorn Famke into that cast will be too much and force. If they find away to bring her back, fine. But as of now, I don't care anymore. There's already too many ppl saying this and that and I know it drives other's mad up the wall but when the movie comes out and Jean isn't in it, those people who want Jean back will have to accept that she isn't part of the movie. The same goes with Cyclops. I think if Fox does a reboot, its time for fresh blood - fresh actors and I personally would like to see how the X-Men can be handled differently if a different director had a chance to make a better universe for mutants.

There I said it! Take it or leave it. I just hope Singer knows what he's doing.

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Old 07-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #293
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I think we will see them back! I think part of the point of DOFP is to "reboot" it without rebooting it. So like, X5 could start off like X-Men #1 of the 90s...

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Old 07-30-2013, 11:48 AM   #294
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i'm a cyclops fan but i won't lie and say he was showcased in a way that audiences will think highly of, fans maybe still have a love for the character but thats as far as it goes sadly
I honestly don't know how someone would end up being a Cyclops fan from solely watching the movies. Film Cyclops is set up to be the foil to the main character, and then, as you said, is usually shuffled off in some way or another.

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Old 07-30-2013, 04:19 PM   #295
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Madelyne Pryor!
Great idea!!She's Cable's mother.And please,don't give up hope!

Famke & James are so wanted,Mr Singer knows it.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:15 PM   #296
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Great idea!!She's Cable's mother.And please,don't give up hope!

Famke & James are so wanted,Mr Singer knows it.
No...I meant in a reboot and I'd like Eva Green to play that role. She can do dark.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:30 PM   #297
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Inless DOFP underperforms at box office your not getting a reboot anytime soon.Especilly with plas for X-Force spinoff.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:58 PM   #298
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

This film surely will have many surprises like every x-men movie has...
If you remember in X3 they hide Famke realy hard until the trailer and the poster came out.
Hopefully the surprise will be a character/s who hasn't ready been announced and the audience and the fans are loving this character.
Also a producer or something in twitter replied that is "Trying to bring Famke back"
https://twitter.com/ShuDonner
And dont forget that this is an X-MEN movie,and Cyclops and Jean are remarkable characters along with Storm and Wolvie in every xmen movie,comic or whatever.
Fingers crossed abou Marsden and Janssen in DOFP.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:17 PM   #299
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This film surely will have many surprises like every x-men movie has...
If you remember in X3 they hide Famke realy hard until the trailer and the poster came out.
Hopefully the surprise will be a character/s who hasn't ready been announced and the audience and the fans are loving this character.
Also a producer or something in twitter replied that is "Trying to bring Famke back"
https://twitter.com/ShuDonner
And dont forget that this is an X-MEN movie,and Cyclops and Jean are remarkable characters along with Storm and Wolvie in every xmen movie,comic or whatever.
Fingers crossed abou Marsden and Janssen in DOFP.
I agree!!!

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Old 07-30-2013, 10:52 PM   #300
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Inless DOFP underperforms at box office your not getting a reboot anytime soon.Especilly with plas for X-Force spinoff.
Even if DOFP underperforms, I doubt reboot would be FOX's next move since reboot takes a longer time than making a sequel or a spin-off movie. Look at the failed Daredevil reboot and the ongoing Fantastic Four reboot.

They would release another X-Men movie but with a lower budget.

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