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Old 08-21-2013, 08:18 PM   #501
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

You're opening up the wounds, man, you're opening up the wounds.

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Old 08-21-2013, 08:21 PM   #502
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Hopefully cyclops is given a fresh new approach in a FC sequel that will be the template for any other movies with cyclops

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Old 08-21-2013, 08:27 PM   #503
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Even IF he’s included in any first class sequels, it’s just going to make that much more harder knowing that whatever success he accomplishes in the “past”, it’ll be tarnished by what we know happens to him in the future.

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Old 08-21-2013, 11:48 PM   #504
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Yeah, I'm hoping after DOFP, they could find a way to bring back James Marsden/Cyclops in the modern-day X-Men films.

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Old 08-22-2013, 12:09 AM   #505
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Even though itís already been 7 years since ďThe Last StandĒ, I still canít get over on how badly screwed Cyclops was from the X-Men Franchise. Before the third film was released, I was hopeful that Cyclops would receive a substantial role in the third film due to Loganís story being somewhat concluded regarding his past in the Second film, along with how they were going with the Dark Phoenix storyline. I had no idea then on how much they would change things in the final result.

I think it makes it even worse when I watch things like X-Men: Evolution, or even Wolverine and the X-men, where Cyclops was better fleshed out and portrayed in those incarnations, even in the latter one, than he was in the live action franchise.

What ever happened to the guy that told an unconscious Xavier in the first film that he would take and look after the X-Men and everyone else in the school if something should happen to Xavier?

This is why I wanted a reboot for the X-Men franchise when First Class was announced, and especially after I saw it because if they could give Alex Summers in that film a good enough role then imagine what they could have done with Scott, especially in a Wolverine Free team.

Honestly, I donít hate Wolverine. I really like the character, mainly due to how Hugh Jackman portrays him. But I donít like how Scott had to be the scapegoat in order for Wolverine to shine. Cyclops lost his role in the team, his overall significance, and even his woman, to Wolverine.
Cyclops didn't come anywhere close to losing his woman to Wolverine.

She was apprehensive towards him in X-Men, and flat out rejected him in X2. Her emotional arc in X-Men: The Last Stand completely revolved around Cyclops. Just because Logan was in love with her doesn't mean she shared the same feelings for him.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:19 AM   #506
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Cyclops didn't come anywhere close to losing his woman to Wolverine.

She was apprehensive towards him in X-Men, and flat out rejected him in X2. Her emotional arc in X-Men: The Last Stand completely revolved around Cyclops. Just because Logan was in love with her doesn't mean she shared the same feelings for him.
1. She flirted with Logan in X-Men 1 during the scene where she read his mind.

2. She wanted to talk about "them" (Wolverine and her) when Wolverine had recovered from giving his powers to Rogue temporarily so that she could heal.

3. If she wasn't interested in Logan in any way, she would have reacted differently to the kiss that Logan planted on her in X-2 and even though she said she didn't want to, her actions and face said a very different story.

4. The Phoenix side of her character was sexually drawn to Logan, thus the heavy make out session with him.

Some have said that the reason why she was torn between the two guys was that "Jean Grey" was in love with Scott, but the Phoenix was attracted to the power and animal nature of Wolverine.

Plus, FOX has done more in showcasing Wolverine and Jean than they have with Jean and Cyclops.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #507
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

She wasn't really flirting with him. She was even turning him down in that scene as well.

Yea, she wanted to talk about her and him - to reject him and tell him it was never going to happen. That's why Logan changed the subject.

Her reaction to Logan kissing her was walking away. It was clear she didn't return the feelings.

Phoenix was toying with Logan because she could. She could use Logan's attraction to her to her advantage and emotionally toy with him.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:25 AM   #508
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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She wasn't really flirting with him. She was even turning him down in that scene as well.

Yea, she wanted to talk about her and him - to reject him and tell him it was never going to happen. That's why Logan changed the subject.

Her reaction to Logan kissing her was walking away. It was clear she didn't return the feelings.

Phoenix was toying with Logan because she could. She could use Logan's attraction to her to her advantage and emotionally toy with him.
You know, I actually never thought of the "recovery" scene in that light until now; hmmm, that is a possibility. Honestly, I was under the impression all of this time that the reason why Logan changed the subject was because it was his way of wanting to create a barrier between them since he didn't think that he could be the right guy that she needed, not the other way around, etc.

I guess if anything, what really hurts in conveying the fact that Jean loved Scott only and wasn't plan on going over to Logan was that they didn't have that much screen time with each other to further elaborate on their relationship, mainly in the second film which should have focused more in showing them together and what they meant to each other as opposed to flirting with the idea of seeing Logan go after Jean.

I mean, Jean and Logan have had way more scenes together than Jean has had with Scott.

I honestly wonder at times on what would have happened had Singer stayed on for X3, primarily because it felt like we were going to get something deeper between Jean and Scott after we had that moment where Logan told Scott at the end of X2 that she had picked him (Scott) in the end.

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:24 AM   #509
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Even IF heís included in any first class sequels, itís just going to make that much more harder knowing that whatever success he accomplishes in the ďpastĒ, itíll be tarnished by what we know happens to him in the future.
Not necessarily if they decide to make a fresh reboot then nothing will have ot match up with the OC, the direction could go any which way. Dont lose hope in Cyclops it can be repaired.

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #510
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

There may only be one more first class sequel If there Is anymore.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:11 AM   #511
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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There may only be one more first class sequel If there Is anymore.
FC3 is still going to be a pretty expensive movie. JLaw will be getting a serious bump in salary, plus all the other characters and abilities they need to bring back. I don't even think the film would be necessary if it was just going to tie in with X-1 and the trilogy.

I think the only solution is to make X4/5 work in the current continuity post future sequences in DoFP. Otherwise, if they were going to wipe away the trilogy, you want to have another trilogy of stories to take its place, and that means new movie contracts for all the FC actors and the rest of the actors they bring in, starting from scratch.

That's why FC3 into AoA works nice. Otherwise, wouldn't bother with either and just leave the franchise at that, assuming DoFP underperforms and most of the loose ends are tied up.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #512
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I don't want them to give up the FC cast, but I'd also like DOFP ending in an alternate present/future where Jean and Scott are alive. Maybe old prof X and old Magneto die and young prof X, young Magneto, Beast and Mystique time travel to this new alternate timeline? But that would be too weird probably.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:21 AM   #513
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I got the feeling Logan never really knew Jean and Scott that well. In the X-Men films he spent maybe a few days with them in X1 and X2 and then how ever long the space was between X2 and X3 which was probably a few months.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:28 AM   #514
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Unfortunately I feel the wolverine and the scenes with jean are gonna stick in audiences minds a lot! Especially since x3 was 8 years ago, making many think that jean was in love with wolverine.

At the same time, at some points she was a bit scary, maybe the Phoenix aspects still....

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #515
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I don't want them to give up the FC cast, but I'd also like DOFP ending in an alternate present/future where Jean and Scott are alive. Maybe old prof X and old Magneto die and young prof X, young Magneto, Beast and Mystique time travel to this new alternate timeline? But that would be too weird probably.
That basically swipes the trilogy. Or at least swipes TLS. Possible but unlikely. If Cyke comes back, I think they have to find a way to write him back in despite what occurred TLS. Phoenix can come back as Madelyne Pryor or something like that.

I'd suggest Cyke was captured by Sinister after Alkali Lake. Or he was captured by military forces and was placed on some sort of house arrest until things were sorted out. Maybe he was given the cure and was placed in one of the mutant camps once his powers returned. If that's the case, he has to have more than a cameo appearance in DoFP and see some action in the future sequences.

Otherwise, maybe Sinister clones both Jean and Scott in X-5 and you take it from there. Either way, it's going to be difficult.


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Old 08-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #516
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

the wolverine gave the illusion that jean was the love of his life, like an Ex Gf he lost

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:43 AM   #517
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

i honestly think singer won't go the route of cyclops has been alive for 10 years and that he didn't die when Xavier,jean and everyone thought he did

and the clone angle does feel abit like a quick fix, not one i think would be important to a story with nothing to back it up, now if it was wolverine they cloned... maybe it would fit into a movie just because he is wolverine and just that important :P

i'm still thinking it will be fixed by time travel, after all things have to change otherwise sending logan back in time is pointless, and if you can kill 2 birds with one stone then why not

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:44 AM   #518
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Michael Dougherty who co-wrote X2 said his ideas for Jean as the Dark Phoenix in X3 were this

Quote:
“The idea – you open up with Alkali Lake but it’s completely barren and dried up and there are these odd reports of strange phenomena going on around the world accompanied by bright lights in the sky.”

“The idea would be that both the X-Men and the Brotherhood realize that essentially a very god-like force had entered their reality and that it was causing disruptions around the world – mutant prisons being decimated. I had pitched an idea about a fleet of cargo ships getting torn apart in the Atlantic and you found out that they were shuttling mutants as slave labor.”

“So basically you found out was that Phoenix was going round the world taking things into her own hands and that she had basically returned as a god, which they did touch upon in X3. She had viewed herself as above the conflict, that she was here to end things on her terms, she was basically sick of the fighting and she was going to take things into her own hands and she didn’t give a s*** what the X-Men or the Brotherhood had to say about it.”
Dougherty's ideas for Cyclops

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“The one idea that I loved, that I really wanted to do, was that Cyclops would build the Danger Room. Cyclops felt guilty, he felt that because the X-Men were too weak, they weren’t strong enough, they weren’t fast enough, that was the reason Jean died. If they were a little bit better at fighting, then she might still be alive. It was all about this guilt he had about her death and so he built the Danger Room to train them to be better. But in the end it really was about him not being able to let go of her, so that causes all the chaos and disruption in the movie. But in the end it’s about him letting her go.”

“Ultimately she kind of becomes that cosmic force that Phoenix is known to be, she choose to leave Earth and become a god, or at least a higher level of intelligence, and she goes into the cosmos possibly to kick-start life somewhere else… The final scene for me would have been her telling Cyclops or her telling the X-Men ‘I’ll be watching.’ Essentially she becomes a god.”

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:47 AM   #519
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Cyclops may not be coming back but if he is Singer wouldn't tell us because I think he would want it to be a surprise like the Xavier and Magneto after credit scene in Wolverine.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #520
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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i honestly think singer won't go the route of cyclops has been alive for 10 years and that he didn't die when Xavier,jean and everyone thought he did

and the clone angle does feel abit like a quick fix, not one i think would be important to a story with nothing to back it up, now if it was wolverine they cloned... maybe it would fit into a movie just because he is wolverine and just that important :P

i'm still thinking it will be fixed by time travel, after all things have to change otherwise sending logan back in time is pointless, and if you can kill 2 birds with one stone then why not
Yeah well you can't kill two birds with one stone of they are 1000 of miles apart. 1973 and Trask Industries doesn't add up with Jean/Scott arcs in the trilogy.

Could you even do an AoA movie without older versions of Jean/Scott/Prof X? I mean you can mix and match some of the Horsemen, and the X-Men featured in DoFP may or may not be in play after this. But I am sure Fox is questioning the same thing, so they may not have a choice.

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Cyclops may not be coming back but if he is Singer wouldn't tell us because I think he would want it to be a surprise like the Xavier and Magneto after credit scene in Wolverine.
I don't see them ending two straight X-Men films with essentially cliff hangers or teasers to that scale, so I don't agree with that. And if Scott had more than a cameo role, I think it would have gotten out by now. Or maybe Singer just did a great job covering up, and he's very close with Marsden who I'm sure could have cleared his schedule for a week or two to work with Singer again.


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Old 08-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #521
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

which is why i think the next X-men film will be a FC sequel focusing on cyclops,jean and storm

kill 2 birds in one stone again by giving us the origins of these characters with minor changes, Xavier maybe helps her control her phoenix powers

i'm not even sure you can expect just to have the sentinel thing change and everything else just remain the same tbh, but who knows =)

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Old 08-22-2013, 06:12 PM   #522
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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You know, I actually never thought of the "recovery" scene in that light until now; hmmm, that is a possibility. Honestly, I was under the impression all of this time that the reason why Logan changed the subject was because it was his way of wanting to create a barrier between them since he didn't think that he could be the right guy that she needed, not the other way around, etc.

I guess if anything, what really hurts in conveying the fact that Jean loved Scott only and wasn't plan on going over to Logan was that they didn't have that much screen time with each other to further elaborate on their relationship, mainly in the second film which should have focused more in showing them together and what they meant to each other as opposed to flirting with the idea of seeing Logan go after Jean.

I mean, Jean and Logan have had way more scenes together than Jean has had with Scott.

I honestly wonder at times on what would have happened had Singer stayed on for X3, primarily because it felt like we were going to get something deeper between Jean and Scott after we had that moment where Logan told Scott at the end of X2 that she had picked him (Scott) in the end.
I don't disagree that Scott was given far too little a role in the main trilogy, particularly in X-Men 3. As much as I love X-Men: The Last Stand, and as much as I am against Cyclops showing up alive in Days Of Future Past, I do feel that killing Cyclops in the first place was the worst thing this series has done. I just feel that bringing him back could mucky things up even worse than they already are, especially if it's just done for fan service.

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Michael Dougherty who co-wrote X2 said his ideas for Jean as the Dark Phoenix in X3 were this



Dougherty's ideas for Cyclops
I'm actually glad this didn't happen.

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Old 08-22-2013, 07:02 PM   #523
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Well they could always say that he was never killed off in the first place if they want to bring him back and that it only appeared that way.

If they can bring back Professor X from the grave and even do service to Jean appearing via dreams for Wolverine, then they can get away with bringing Cyclops back for the AOA story line should they ever go down that route.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:16 PM   #524
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'm actually glad this didn't happen.
Good for you but I think those ideas were better than anything that we got in X3 IMO.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:38 PM   #525
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

It would have been amazing.

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