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Old 08-22-2013, 09:34 PM   #526
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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There may only be one more first class sequel If there Is anymore.
Thats always the assumption with the fans. Another First Class movie featuring the younger version of Cyke, Jean and Ororo. But I don't think its necessary right now.
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FC3 is still going to be a pretty expensive movie. JLaw will be getting a serious bump in salary, plus all the other characters and abilities they need to bring back. I don't even think the film would be necessary if it was just going to tie in with X-1 and the trilogy.

I think the only solution is to make X4/5 work in the current continuity post future sequences in DoFP. Otherwise, if they were going to wipe away the trilogy, you want to have another trilogy of stories to take its place, and that means new movie contracts for all the FC actors and the rest of the actors they bring in, starting from scratch.

That's why FC3 into AoA works nice. Otherwise, wouldn't bother with either and just leave the franchise at that, assuming DoFP underperforms and most of the loose ends are tied up.
I doubt they would start from scratch. And even if they did, you can't simply erase that they had a connection with the OT cast in the previous films. So that wouldn't work very well compare to a complete reboot.

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Old 08-22-2013, 11:49 PM   #527
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Well they could always say that he was never killed off in the first place if they want to bring him back and that it only appeared that way.

If they can bring back Professor X from the grave and even do service to Jean appearing via dreams for Wolverine, then they can get away with bringing Cyclops back for the AOA story line should they ever go down that route.
Except they already established he was dead by Jean Grey, the one who killed him, confirming it, as well as watching Xavier feeling his psychic bond destroyed.

Do you realize how convoluted "kidnapped at Alkali Lake and hanging with Mr. Sinister for 10 years" sounds?

Straight out of a soap opera.

Xavier came back because, given his telepathic powers, the ability to mind swap himself is within the realm of logic. Jean Grey wasn't really there in The Wolverine, she was in his imagination.

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Old 08-24-2013, 08:40 AM   #528
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

He could still very well come back we dont know how the ending of this movie will play out, or if indeed Singer is intending to bring back Jean or Scott for future scenes.

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Old 08-26-2013, 07:48 AM   #529
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Maybe during my children's generation, when Fox actually decides to FINALLY reboot the series, they'll give both Jean and Cyclops the treatment that they deserve.

It's almost to saddening to say that every other media portrayal (cartoon and anime) have portrayed the two in a stronger light than the films themselves in the long run.

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Old 08-26-2013, 07:53 AM   #530
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I think Jean got great treatment in the films it was just the dark phoenix saga that wasn't done properly. But overall Jean got great development in the films. It's cyclops that was ***** on.

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Old 08-26-2013, 12:07 PM   #531
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Except they already established he was dead by Jean Grey, the one who killed him, confirming it, as well as watching Xavier feeling his psychic bond destroyed.

Do you realize how convoluted "kidnapped at Alkali Lake and hanging with Mr. Sinister for 10 years" sounds?

Straight out of a soap opera.

Xavier came back because, given his telepathic powers, the ability to mind swap himself is within the realm of logic. Jean Grey wasn't really there in The Wolverine, she was in his imagination.
I don't think it makes any less sense than Jean Grey surviving in some sort of psychic cocoon or Xavier mind jumping into another body.

That being said, I don't think that implausibility is the real barrier stopping Cyke from coming back. If Fox wanted him to return, they could make it happen.

The problem is that Fox probably has no desire to bring him back. Yeah, there's been some fan backlash over TLS, but I'm not convinced it's enough to make a difference. If Fox cared about Cyke, they wouldn't have treated him like an obstacle in Wolverine's way in the first place. Fox is probably GLAD that Scott is gone.

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Old 08-26-2013, 02:26 PM   #532
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I don't think Fox really cares one way or another about Cyclops. He was written out of X-Men 3 due to the actor being busy with another movie. I don't think the Fox executives are sitting in their offices, throwing darts at pictures of Cyclops. If a director came along that wanted to bring Cyclops back, I highly doubt Fox is gonna make a stink about it. They probably won't put an emphasis on bringing him back, either.

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Old 08-27-2013, 01:19 AM   #533
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

It would just take 1 good writer and a good story to give justice to Cyclops' long awaited return. But if they aren't planning to bring him back and they have other things in store for the future movies then oh well.

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Old 08-27-2013, 01:52 AM   #534
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Cyclops should just come back in future First Class movies.

He can come back, without the convoluted mess of coming back to life, and his relationship with Jean can be given focus without Wolverine butting his nose in where it doesn't belong.

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Old 08-27-2013, 04:12 AM   #535
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have the hardest time getting invested in characters or in fictitious pairs knowing what their end result will be and considering on how Cyclops got the worst ending out of the pair, it'd be hard to see him portrayed potentially so well in the FC films only to know that he'll be butchered somewhat in the future films according to the canon.

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:10 AM   #536
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

it could be seen in 2 ways

1. in a FC sequel least we get to see some justice given to the character even for 1 film that explores how he become the leader and give audiences an insight

2. if time travel changes things then cyclops may not die and things may be have happened differently with the character but we just won't see it

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:54 AM   #537
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If they go with route 2 (above), then I think Marsden and perhaps Famke have to cameo at the end of DoFP. Otherwise best leave them dead for now.

Kind of on the fence on FC3 being the last film in this continuity. It's a nice addition, but not a game changer and perhaps even unneccessary. If they follow it up with more future films then awesome. I'll take whatever we can get so long as the films are of high quality.

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Old 08-27-2013, 08:01 AM   #538
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have the hardest time getting invested in characters or in fictitious pairs knowing what their end result will be and considering on how Cyclops got the worst ending out of the pair, it'd be hard to see him portrayed potentially so well in the FC films only to know that he'll be butchered somewhat in the future films according to the canon.
We dont know if FC will play into OT though so thinkin like that isnt good. If they decide to go a different route with FC then Scott dying in OT would be irrelevant in FC. SO your getting disappointed,if they show him well in FC then his fate could be different in that universe if they plan to do it that way.

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Old 08-27-2013, 02:59 PM   #539
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have the hardest time getting invested in characters or in fictitious pairs knowing what their end result will be and considering on how Cyclops got the worst ending out of the pair, it'd be hard to see him portrayed potentially so well in the FC films only to know that he'll be butchered somewhat in the future films according to the canon.
How is "eventually grieving, being reunited with your love and dying" butchering a character?

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Old 08-27-2013, 03:10 PM   #540
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have the hardest time getting invested in characters or in fictitious pairs knowing what their end result will be and considering on how Cyclops got the worst ending out of the pair, it'd be hard to see him portrayed potentially so well in the FC films only to know that he'll be butchered somewhat in the future films according to the canon.
That's a shame.

I guess the mentality of "it's not about the destination, but instead about the journey" doesn't apply to you.

That's like saying I can't enjoy Terminator 2 because Terminator 3.

Or that I can't feel emotion when Gandalf dies in Fellowship Of The Ring because he comes back in The Two Towers.

I hate what was done to Cyclops in X-Men: The Last Stand as much as anyone, and despite my love of that film, to this day still think it's the worst thing to happen to the franchise.

But a younger version of Cyclops being introduced in a First Class sequel, and showing how he became the leader of the X-Men, his significance to the team, his father / son relationship with Xavier, and his relationship with Jean Grey, I think would be something incredible that can help build up the character in ways that he hasn't been in the future, and would be quite the experience, his disappointing fate aside.

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Old 08-27-2013, 04:28 PM   #541
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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That's a shame.

I guess the mentality of "it's not about the destination, but instead about the journey" doesn't apply to you.

That's like saying I can't enjoy Terminator 2 because Terminator 3.

Or that I can't feel emotion when Gandalf dies in Fellowship Of The Ring because he comes back in The Two Towers.

I hate what was done to Cyclops in X-Men: The Last Stand as much as anyone, and despite my love of that film, to this day still think it's the worst thing to happen to the franchise.

But a younger version of Cyclops being introduced in a First Class sequel, and showing how he became the leader of the X-Men, his significance to the team, his father / son relationship with Xavier, and his relationship with Jean Grey, I think would be something incredible that can help build up the character in ways that he hasn't been in the future, and would be quite the experience, his disappointing fate aside.
Well to be honest, I really don't think you could use the Gandalf situation as a example since Gandalf was portrayed so well even after he returned from the afterlife.

And regarding Terminator 2 and 3, well if I'm not mistaken, Terminator 2 was supposed to be "it" for Cameron's take of the story. The way it ended as well didn't leave room for anything else from his original version so anything that came afterwards was just someone else's attempt to continue a story that had already concluded.

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Old 08-27-2013, 05:34 PM   #542
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Well to be honest, I really don't think you could use the Gandalf situation as a example since Gandalf was portrayed so well even after he returned from the afterlife.

And regarding Terminator 2 and 3, well if I'm not mistaken, Terminator 2 was supposed to be "it" for Cameron's take of the story. The way it ended as well didn't leave room for anything else from his original version so anything that came afterwards was just someone else's attempt to continue a story that had already concluded.
What's that gotta do with anything?

If Cyclops is well done in First Class 3, how is that any different than Gandalf? It would be great to see Cyclops in ways that he deserves to be treated.

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Old 08-27-2013, 05:53 PM   #543
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have the hardest time getting invested in characters or in fictitious pairs knowing what their end result will be and considering on how Cyclops got the worst ending out of the pair, it'd be hard to see him portrayed potentially so well in the FC films only to know that he'll be butchered somewhat in the future films according to the canon.
It helps if you pretend that Jean just knocked Scott out in X3, and the rest of the events are his fevered nightmare of what will happen if he doesn't step up and fix things. That's what I do.

That being said, I personally think that DoFP is going to result in the timeline becoming malleable post 1973. The door will be open for changes going forward.

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Old 08-27-2013, 05:55 PM   #544
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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But a younger version of Cyclops being introduced in a First Class sequel, and showing how he became the leader of the X-Men, his significance to the team, his father / son relationship with Xavier, and his relationship with Jean Grey, I think would be something incredible that can help build up the character in ways that he hasn't been in the future, and would be quite the experience, his disappointing fate aside.
Exactly. And that's more or less all that they "owe" the fanbase in this instance.

Cyclops played his customary role for much of the franchise and was fairly well portrayed, as were his relationships with key characters (Jean, Xavier and Logan). Some additional development of his character about his qualms and issues with leadership and in battle and his growth as a strategic force is all that would be required for an overall solid portrayal.

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Old 08-27-2013, 08:13 PM   #545
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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What's that gotta do with anything?

If Cyclops is well done in First Class 3, how is that any different than Gandalf? It would be great to see Cyclops in ways that he deserves to be treated.
Because Gandalf's role wasn't butchered at the end like Cyclops was/would be.

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Old 08-27-2013, 08:17 PM   #546
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Because Gandalf's role wasn't butchered at the end like Cyclops was/would be.
Least we would get to see him shine as leader at all in this franchise

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:00 PM   #547
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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We dont know if FC will play into OT though so thinkin like that isnt good. If they decide to go a different route with FC then Scott dying in OT would be irrelevant in FC. SO your getting disappointed,if they show him well in FC then his fate could be different in that universe if they plan to do it that way.
I think if they are gonna do a FC or an origin movie with the younger version of Jean/Cyke/Storm. There should be a movie set in the future/modern-day world after it, featuring those three (or at least with Storm/Cyclops), just like with Professor X/Magneto/Wolverine.

One of the reasons why a FC movie featuring the younger version of Jean/Cyke/Storm would work, is if FOX will use that movie as a set-up to the return of Cyclops or Jean Grey in the modern-day period. Personally, I want Cyclops to be back. With Jean Grey, I felt like they gave her a good last scene in The Wolverine and I don't want to see her comeback in the next 5 years.

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:01 PM   #548
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'm not sure if it's just me, but I have the hardest time getting invested in characters or in fictitious pairs knowing what their end result will be and considering on how Cyclops got the worst ending out of the pair, it'd be hard to see him portrayed potentially so well in the FC films only to know that he'll be butchered somewhat in the future films according to the canon.
It's not just you. It wouldn't make sense to have Cyclops appear in a First Class sequel as a strong confident leader and then years later after gaining more experience get his butt handed to him in every encounter. Submit to Wolverine, an outsider in every encounter.

If anything I'd like to see him return afte Dofp and grow from there.

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:05 PM   #549
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

DOFP could result in a change to Cyclops' future.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:37 AM   #550
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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i don't think famke will be back at the end of the wolverine, jean will be there to be something effecting wolverines mind
This si going to be stupid I know.But what if she projected herself into his mind and thats why he was having visions in the Wolverine.This could be her way of wanting out and all that was destroyed was her physical body.Kind of what Prof.X did at the end of X3.Using another body to host his brain.This could have happened in that scene from X3 where shes in the lab with Wolverine.Just a thought.However maybe a simpler way would be to alter the timeline.Just alter Striker future which avoids the whole confrontation of X2 thus eliminating Phoenixes realease in X3.

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