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View Poll Results: Man Of Steel Or Superman: The Movie?
Superman: The Movie 53 37.32%
Man Of Steel 69 48.59%
Does it matter? 20 14.08%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:09 AM   #76
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I just think that there are parts of STM that haven't aged well. So something that wasn't an issue back in 78 now seems like a flaw today. MOS has flaws right here and now in 2013. Who knows what flaws it will seem to have 30 years from now.

I am curious if the death of Zod won't be controversial years from now. 30 years from now, MOS might seem campy compared to what's being released far into the future.
To me STM is like those people that look young for their age for a long time and then one day, boom it gets old.

STM was for long time a viable superhero film. But alot of it fell off pretty hard. I would say the movie remains timeless all the way up to Otis first appearance. Or after the flying sequence (whichever comes later). Lex Luthor really dates this film. Reeve's performance is timeless. Its not corny, its smooth, he talk at an even pace. Its not the fast talking stuff like those old black and white tv shows. Very chill.

Perry Whites portrayal seems more like a Marvel character today. Like Jameson in Raimi's Spiderman.


MOS will age well. I think very well. When kids see this on TV, it should be like the coolest thing ever. One day they will grow up and say, why did he just let his father die? LOL. I would say, son "At least he didnt reverse time."

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #77
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MOS will age well. I think very well. When kids see this on TV, it should be like the coolest thing ever. One day they will grow up and say, why did he just let his father die? LOL. I would say, son "At least he didnt reverse time."
I feel otherwise. MoS might well be the coolest thing ever... for now. Until the next coolest thing comes round. Once the novelty of seeing Superman hitting hard fades, once the sequel, the eventual reboot, the next iteration of superman battling other superpowered foes in better CG comes along, MoS will likely be seen as just another comic book movie.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:32 AM   #78
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I feel otherwise. MoS might well be the coolest thing ever... for now. Until the next coolest thing comes round. Once the novelty of seeing Superman hitting hard fades, once the sequel, the eventual reboot, the next iteration of superman battling other superpowered foes in better CG comes along, MoS will likely be seen as just another comic book movie.
You probably right, there are so many good superhero films. Its not like in 1978 where STM could was the only movie of its kind and had sole share of the market and hearts of its audiences. I dont know any superhero movie that reall stands out by itself. TDK to me is right there, but the Avengers comes along and makes things close. A lot of other movies have missteps or are just not as good.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:43 AM   #79
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You probably right, there are so many good superhero films. Its not like in 1978 where STM could was the only movie of its kind and had sole share of the market and hearts of its audiences. I dont know any superhero movie that reall stands out by itself. TDK to me is right there, but the Avengers comes along and makes things close. A lot of other movies have missteps or are just not as good.
If anything STM's misstep of an ending makes the movie more timeless; the turning time back deus ex machina is WTF in any decade. The killing of Zod, while a hot topic at present, will be par the course as screen adaptions of comic book superheroes get darker and more 'realistic'.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #80
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Now I understood. That's what makes it timeless.

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Old 07-10-2013, 12:21 PM   #81
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These movies represent Superman of different eras. Superman the movie is the equivalent of the Curt Swan 70's Superman. Man of Steel is like Geoff Johns, Mark Waid's and JOHN BYRNE's Superman rolled into 1.

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Old 07-10-2013, 12:24 PM   #82
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These movies represent Superman of different eras. Superman the movie is the equivalent of the Curt Swan 70's Superman. Man of Steel is like Geoff Johns, Mark Waid's and JOHN BYRNE's Superman rolled into 1.
Dont tell Mark Waid that.

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Old 07-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #83
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If anything STM's misstep of an ending makes the movie more timeless; the turning time back deus ex machina is WTF in any decade. The killing of Zod, while a hot topic at present, will be par the course as screen adaptions of comic book superheroes get darker and more 'realistic'.
Yeah, it's memorable. And it was semi-well set up. If he could "meddle in the affairs of human history" he could travel back in time. However, that doesn't explain why he wouldn't stealthfully take out Hitler by spinning time back and saving the day.

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Old 07-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #84
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Dont tell Mark Waid that.
I know Waid hates the film, but in his review he even admitted to seeing a bunch of Birthright stuff in the movie. Very little John Byrne Superman was in it but there were a couple things I noticed.

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Old 07-10-2013, 01:08 PM   #85
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I liked Man of Steel more but I can't vote against Superman the Movie because i got so much stuff right about Superman.

lol I voted Does it matter.

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Old 07-10-2013, 02:17 PM   #86
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Superman: The Movie.

Better told story, better pacing, characters you actually feel some way about, and scenes that are just iconic and sum up the character perfectly.

And while some will try and claim that you can only like this movie if you have some nostalgic attachment to it, I personally grew up on Post Crisis Superman. Hell, I’m pretty sure I watched Lois and Clark and STAS before I saw STM. I like the former two less as I grow older. My respect for STM only increases.

When you strip away “That is/isn’t my superman/lex/lois/etc.”, STM is simply a better movie as far as I’m concerned. STM was a groundbreaking, highly praised film. MOS is a polarizing summer blockbuster amidst a sea of summer blockbusters, a film that reuses many of the tropes that we’ve seen in recent superhero and reboot blockbusters.

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Old 07-10-2013, 02:54 PM   #87
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Man of Steel.

I love Reeve as Superman, and he's the first one I think of when I picture the character, but there's just a little too much cheese for me in Superman: The Movie. Lex Luthor and his bumbling minions don't seem like much of a threat at all, and I just don't feel like I'm watching a comic book movie when I see it. It delves too often into romantic comedy territory. I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any stretch, however.

I understand this may be because I'm only 26 and didn't get into Superman until I was around 18, but I think I just personally prefer the grittier tone of Man of Steel and it's now the definitive Superman movie for me personally. I walked out of MOS very impressed after reading some of the one-offs and a good amount of the graphic novels.


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Old 07-12-2013, 04:02 AM   #88
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I think the "Truth, Justice and American Way" has indeed become a thing of the past. We see America more cynical and through a much more critical lense than in the past. Having things like that in a film nowadays would almost come off as American propaganda and the film will be called out on it.

That being said, I thought MOS did a great job at having the theme of "truth, justice and the American way" present in the film without actually saying that line. If you think about it and analyze the film, Superman represents all the classic American values while Zod represents the exact opposite.
Agreed.

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Superman in the film represents hope and the ability to make your own choices and shape your own destiny, as well as the belief that we are all individuals. On the other hand, Zod comes from a hopeless world, which is something he plans to bring to Earth as well. He not only believes there is no such thing as the freedom to make your own choices but also believes that everyone must be stripped of their individuality and just be whatever they were genetically engineered to be in order for the Kryptonian race as a whole survive. This was the same mentality one can find in the Soviet Union or in books like 1984.
Decades of Cold War propaganda created this false dichotomy where you're either an arch-individualist or a faceless cog in the totalitarian machine. It's a great way to discredit the entire idea of collective action.

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Even the symbol of Zod's chest somewhat resembles the Communist flag.
Interesting interpretation. I'd like to hear from one of the actual costume designers though.

MOS vs STM: It's hard to compare the two because, as people have said, both offer the perfect Superman for their respective eras (I'll come back to that later). At the moment I have to say my personal preference is for MOS.

The new movie gave me the Superman and the Lois Lane I always wanted to see. Christopher Reeve remains the standard, but that's why I think Henry Cavill's performance was so strong - unlike Routh, he was able to step out of Reeve's shadow. But Amy Adams blows Margot Kidder out of the water. Part of that is the writing - she acts more like an actual journalist - but she's also smarter, funnier and more beautiful.

Where villains are concerned, MOS stomps all over STM. Gene Hackman's campy take on Lex simply cannot compare to Shannon's complex take on Zod. And what about the henchmen - Faora vs. Otis and Miss Tessmacher? I think that question answers itself.

Russell Crowe completely upstaged Marlon Brando as Jor-El. Rather than just showing up to the set for a glorified cameo and reading his lines off cue cards, he actually put effort into the role and the result is a much more dynamic, charismatic Jor-El.

As much as I love Kevin Costner, I have to say that one scene in STM with Glenn Ford's Jonathan Kent - "son ... you were sent here for a reason" - well, it just brilliant reduces Clark's all-American upbringing to one brief, beautiful speech. Still, I tend to prefer a younger Jonathan.

Where Clark's mothers are concerned, it's MOS for both - no question.

The special effects were better in MOS, as was the action. I liked the romance a lot more. And finally, the ending of MOS was incomparably better. Rather than a jaw-droppingly dumb deus ex machina that creates countless plot holes, the ending of MOS hinges on one of the most basic moral quandaries faced by Superman, and dares to make a controversial choice. I applaud the movie for its boldness in that regard.

So yeah, you put this all together and it looks like MOS is the clear favourite, with Christopher Reeve's performance the strongest and most enduring element of STM. I think STM is a more subtle, tasteful and better constructed film overall, but MOS delivers up an action-packed Superman in glorious excess and I don't have a problem with that. Basically, after years in which STM and SII were IMO the only real choices available for good Superman movies, it's great to see a new one with a different take.

One thing I'd like to return to, though, is how both STM and MOS seemed to perfectly encapsulate their eras. In fact, if you compare the two films, you'll learn an awful lot about how American society has changed since 1978.

Donner's film captured that post-Vietnam, post-Watergate malaise and the yearning for a return to conservative '50s values. Chris Reeve's Superman embodied that perfectly. He was pure goodness, but also the ultimate square. I think Lois' response to his claim that he fights for "truth, justice and the American way" encapsulated the widespread cynicism of that time: "You're going to have to fight every elected official in the country!"

Similarly, MOS reflects the state of American society in the early 21st century. Some critics have mentioned the 9/11 overtones of the mass destruction in the movie's climax, which is debatable. I did appreciate the sight of Superman knocking down a drone. But the thing that really stuck out in my mind was Superman's close relationship to the military.

Throughout the film, Superman's main link with humanity was through the U.S. military. Aside from Lois, they were the only human beings that "Superman" had much contact with after donning the suit, and at the end, General Swanwick is the one who essentially represents humanity in setting the scene of how we will deal with Superman going forward.

You can argue that the Pentagon's considerable support for this movie contributed to this. But I think it's really just an issue of the much greater prominence of the military in U.S. society today than in 1978. Polls consistently show that the military is by far the most trusted institution in the United States today - and judging by his last line to Swanwick ("I guess I'll just to trust you"), Cavill's Superman seems to reflect those sentiments.

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Old 07-12-2013, 04:54 AM   #89
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Man of steel for me 2. And I love superman the movie. The one thing that always bugged me was the turning back time part. In my mind if he was able to fly quick enough to do that he should have been quick enough to stop both of lex's rockets. Man of steel has it's flaws too but just not as big a one as that.

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Old 07-12-2013, 05:44 AM   #90
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Man of steel for me 2. And I love superman the movie. The one thing that always bugged me was the turning back time part. In my mind if he was able to fly quick enough to do that he should have been quick enough to stop both of lex's rockets. Man of steel has it's flaws too but just not as big a one as that.
Thata good point actually

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:15 AM   #91
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Superman The Movie

I connected to the characters way more, could work out what the heck was going on with the action and Superman acts like how I expect Superman to act.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:18 AM   #92
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Man of steel for me 2. And I love superman the movie. The one thing that always bugged me was the turning back time part. In my mind if he was able to fly quick enough to do that he should have been quick enough to stop both of lex's rockets. Man of steel has it's flaws too but just not as big a one as that.

The Deux Ex Machina at the end of Superman is huge (HUGE!) but even when you are taking off points for the frankly shocking ending in S:TM it still adds up to more than MoS.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:21 AM   #93
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The Deux Ex Machina at the end of Superman is huge (HUGE!) but even when you are taking off points for the frankly shocking ending in S:TM it still adds up to more than MoS.
Yeah but that's just your opinion as what he said is his I personally enjoyed MOS more than STM but that doesn't change my love for STM at all.

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:11 AM   #94
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Superman the Movie by far.

MOS had more action and current SFX but ultimately the emotional aspects seemed very forced to me in MOS where in STM it felt far more organic. This goes a long way for me.

Plus the acting/dialogue/storytelling in STM was groundbreaking where MOS didn't set the bar very high and it was overall kind of average.

Once you add up the heart, execution, nostalgia, and Reeve's performance it's clear that STM is on another level.

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Old 07-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #95
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I'll go step by step.
1. Henry Cavill vs Chris Reeves-both were great but for different reasons. I don't want to compare them because we haven't seen Cavill play Daily Planet Clark yet, to be continued.
2. Margo Kidder vs Amy Adams-Kidder was good, but I prefer Adams. She seemed more like a seasoned reporter to me, and I bought her character points more so than Kidder, but it was close.
3. Zod vs Lex-No question, Zod wins, Lex was a clown and not all that smart.
4. Supporting cast-Jonthan Kent got more to do in MOS and I loved all of Costner's scenes, so he wins. the Martha's were about equal to me (neither got enough screen time). Crowe's Jor-el beats Brando, he had more nuanced character and got to do more. Plus, his interactions with the other characters were much more believable. Perry in STM was a little too cliché for me, so Fishburne wins. The Daily Planet in STM wins simply because we saw more of them. Col. Hardy and Gen. Stanwick were great characters, especially Hardy (loved him). Otis was dumb, so was Lex's Girlfriend, Faora beats both of them easily.
5. The plot-this is tricky, Donner's film was an epic, so it had a slower pace. I think that his themes and ideas were great for the most part, but some scene were so cheesy as to be laughable. The reversing time thing was a cheap cop-out, whereas in MOS Clark actually had to make a morally difficult decision and follow through with it. Both films had pacing issues, STM was a little too slow paced at times while MOS was a little too fast paced at times. I wasn't found of Donner's idea that Clark could never truly fit in to human society or have a love life with Lois (it contradicts the comics) so MOS was more uplifting in that regard. Lois knowing from the beginning in MOS was genius.
In summation, I think that both movies are good. However, STM had dated badly in places and I wasn't found of one of its messages (or the villains). MOS steel has issues, but I like it themes and I think it holds together a little better. Some of the genius decisions in MOS push it over the top and I like it a little better than STM, but I don't hate Donner's film by any stretch of the imagination.

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:56 PM   #96
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I'll go step by step.
1. Henry Cavill vs Chris Reeves-both were great but for different reasons. I don't want to compare them because we haven't seen Cavill play Daily Planet Clark yet, to be continued.
2. Margo Kidder vs Amy Adams-Kidder was good, but I prefer Adams. She seemed more like a seasoned reporter to me, and I bought her character points more so than Kidder, but it was close.
3. Zod vs Lex-No question, Zod wins, Lex was a clown and not all that smart.
4. Supporting cast-Jonthan Kent got more to do in MOS and I loved all of Costner's scenes, so he wins. the Martha's were about equal to me (neither got enough screen time). Crowe's Jor-el beats Brando, he had more nuanced character and got to do more. Plus, his interactions with the other characters were much more believable. Perry in STM was a little too cliché for me, so Fishburne wins. The Daily Planet in STM wins simply because we saw more of them. Col. Hardy and Gen. Stanwick were great characters, especially Hardy (loved him). Otis was dumb, so was Lex's Girlfriend, Faora beats both of them easily.
5. The plot-this is tricky, Donner's film was an epic, so it had a slower pace. I think that his themes and ideas were great for the most part, but some scene were so cheesy as to be laughable. The reversing time thing was a cheap cop-out, whereas in MOS Clark actually had to make a morally difficult decision and follow through with it. Both films had pacing issues, STM was a little too slow paced at times while MOS was a little too fast paced at times. I wasn't found of Donner's idea that Clark could never truly fit in to human society or have a love life with Lois (it contradicts the comics) so MOS was more uplifting in that regard. Lois knowing from the beginning in MOS was genius.
In summation, I think that both movies are good. However, STM had dated badly in places and I wasn't found of one of its messages (or the villains). MOS steel has issues, but I like it themes and I think it holds together a little better. Some of the genius decisions in MOS push it over the top and I like it a little better than STM, but I don't hate Donner's film by any stretch of the imagination.

That's one hell of an argument. That is kind of how I feel. I voted for STM but MOS had so much good stuff that it COULD easily surpass STM on multiple viewings. I'll just have to wait and see how my feelings work out!

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Old 07-13-2013, 12:13 AM   #97
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People say STM had a better story. But what was the story exactly? We praise this film, including me. But what was the story about.

I think MOS story was better. In STM I was just in pure awe of Superman. In MOS, I connected with him.

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Old 07-13-2013, 12:31 AM   #98
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People say STM had a better story. But what was the story exactly? We praise this film, including me. But what was the story about.
STM story + SII story = MOS story.

Boy sent to earth, tries to adapt to it but he's different. His earthly father tells him not to show his powers and there's a "reason" why he's so different. He goes north and finds his Kryptonian father who gives him a suit and tells him to save the world. He meets girl. Kryptonian villains condemned to the Phantom Zone get free and come to earth to rule. Superman must stop them.

Just to be clear, nothing wrong with that.

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Old 07-13-2013, 12:49 AM   #99
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I'll go step by step.
1. Henry Cavill vs Chris Reeves-both were great but for different reasons. I don't want to compare them because we haven't seen Cavill play Daily Planet Clark yet, to be continued.
2. Margo Kidder vs Amy Adams-Kidder was good, but I prefer Adams. She seemed more like a seasoned reporter to me, and I bought her character points more so than Kidder, but it was close.
3. Zod vs Lex-No question, Zod wins, Lex was a clown and not all that smart.
4. Supporting cast-Jonthan Kent got more to do in MOS and I loved all of Costner's scenes, so he wins. the Martha's were about equal to me (neither got enough screen time). Crowe's Jor-el beats Brando, he had more nuanced character and got to do more. Plus, his interactions with the other characters were much more believable. Perry in STM was a little too cliché for me, so Fishburne wins. The Daily Planet in STM wins simply because we saw more of them. Col. Hardy and Gen. Stanwick were great characters, especially Hardy (loved him). Otis was dumb, so was Lex's Girlfriend, Faora beats both of them easily.
5. The plot-this is tricky, Donner's film was an epic, so it had a slower pace. I think that his themes and ideas were great for the most part, but some scene were so cheesy as to be laughable. The reversing time thing was a cheap cop-out, whereas in MOS Clark actually had to make a morally difficult decision and follow through with it. Both films had pacing issues, STM was a little too slow paced at times while MOS was a little too fast paced at times. I wasn't found of Donner's idea that Clark could never truly fit in to human society or have a love life with Lois (it contradicts the comics) so MOS was more uplifting in that regard. Lois knowing from the beginning in MOS was genius.
In summation, I think that both movies are good. However, STM had dated badly in places and I wasn't found of one of its messages (or the villains). MOS steel has issues, but I like it themes and I think it holds together a little better. Some of the genius decisions in MOS push it over the top and I like it a little better than STM, but I don't hate Donner's film by any stretch of the imagination.
STM was campy in tone, but we got to know all the characters and they were actually characters and not caricatures. I thought a few of the roles in MOS weren't written at all. Perry White was almost invisible and we never got to understand or know anything about his character, then suddenly at the end of the movie, we're supposed to care about him because he's in danger. I thought that was cheap. And when it came to Lois and Clark, I didn't feel like their romance was forced in STM. The MOS Lois and Clark romance was almost as bad as the forced romance in the Star Wars prequels. At no point in time did I find it even remotely believable, in fact I thought they were going to save the romantic stuff for the second film....then all of the sudden they are kissing. It was weird, out of place, and insulting to the audience. Goyer and Snyder should have left the romance until the sequel to be honest.

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Old 07-13-2013, 12:57 AM   #100
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People say STM had a better story. But what was the story exactly? We praise this film, including me. But what was the story about.

I think MOS story was better. In STM I was just in pure awe of Superman. In MOS, I connected with him.
STM's story isn't necessarily better, but its story is told better. That's all. The complaints about MOS is not about the story being better or worse, its about how it was told and how it wasn't told.

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