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Old 07-10-2013, 10:02 PM   #51
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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why can't a hero be gay?
Exactly. I seriously think there needs to be a gay or bi superhero film. I'm not saying change a character, but it is very striking that even just joking around about it - you still get this kind of response. As I said, it's one of the main themes in The X-Men. I think there just needs to be a film that shows that being LGBT doesn't make one any more or any less of a man. It doesn't change anything - he'd still be Peter. He wouldn't be flamboyant, he'd still be Peter. It changes absolutely nothing about the character, just who they sleep with. It is a very very minor thing. As a bi guy, that there is a big deal about it is really ridiculous to me because through my eyes one's gender and sexuality is as non-important as hair color or eye color. Hopefully there will be a superhero film with a gay hero someday and if not - seriously going to try to push for there to be one.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #52
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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If people boycott this at all because it was just mentioned? Then they haven't learned a single thing from comic books, most notably haven't learned anything from The X-Men. Superheroes teach us to be accepting of everyone, to see everyone as equal, and to fight for 'mutants' (minorities) everywhere. And I will say that it is sad to me that the message in a lot of these comic books, and especially in The X-Men, hasn't hit home for some.
You're assuming that those people are fans of the genre as a whole to begin with.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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Exactly. I seriously think there needs to be a gay or bi superhero film. I'm not saying change a character, but it is very striking that even just joking around about it - you still get this kind of response. As I said, it's one of the main themes in The X-Men. I think there just needs to be a film that shows that being LGBT doesn't make one any more or any less of a man. It changes absolutely nothing about the character, just who they sleep with. It is a very very minor thing. As a bi guy, that there is a big deal about it is really ridiculous to me because through my eyes one's gender and sexuality is as non-important as hair color or eye color. Hopefully there will be a superhero film with a gay hero someday and if not - seriously going to try to push for there to be one.
Yes you are right. Like I said in my other comment, just make a new character take on the Spider-Man suit like Ben Riley or just make a new superhero.
The thing is, the general public will make a big deal about it. They would probably be against the film and wouldn't see it, which isn't fair to homosexual people or characters.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:05 PM   #54
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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You're assuming that those people are fans of the genre as a whole to begin with.
I'm pretty sure comic book movie-goers go to see other comic book films. And comic book readers read other comic books. Also no matter what book you read, the struggle for 'mutant' rights isn't exactly just tied to the X-Men. MARVEL and DC have always been progressing towards a more equal and accepting world.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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Originally Posted by fuflipflops View Post
sony supports "it gets better", and amy pascal, head of sony, is super into those causes. they'll probably give him a raise for saying that.
Exactly.

And a reminder of what Amy Pascal recently said & did:

http://www.deadline.com/2013/03/amy-...s-from-movies/


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Old 07-10-2013, 10:08 PM   #56
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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I'm not saying change a character, but it is very striking that even just joking around about it - you still get this kind of response.
It's really sad.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:10 PM   #57
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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Exactly. I seriously think there needs to be a gay or bi superhero film. I'm not saying change a character, but it is very striking that even just joking around about it - you still get this kind of response. As I said, it's one of the main themes in The X-Men. I think there just needs to be a film that shows that being LGBT doesn't make one any more or any less of a man. It doesn't change anything - he'd still be Peter. He wouldn't be flamboyant, he'd still be Peter. It changes absolutely nothing about the character, just who they sleep with. It is a very very minor thing. As a bi guy, that there is a big deal about it is really ridiculous to me because through my eyes one's gender and sexuality is as non-important as hair color or eye color. Hopefully there will be a superhero film with a gay hero someday and if not - seriously going to try to push for there to be one.
exactly, it wouldn't change anything, since sexuality doesn't define who someone is, and being gay doesn't mean you're suddenly that "sassy gay" that's the stereotype (or that you're butch, if you're a lesbian), AND it'd actually make lgbt people feel like they matter and that they're not freaks - which they aren't by any means, but the world does like to paint that picture. and straight people would still be able to relate, the same way a woman can still relate to spider-man even though he's a guy, or someone can relate to iron man, even though he's rich. it's not that type of thing that defines a person, it's what experiences they go through and the feelings they have.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:10 PM   #58
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

How very-what's the word they use now? Progressive?

Besides this makes much more sense for Batman.....

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:10 PM   #59
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

Wasn't that new multi-ethnic Ultimate Spider-man supposed to be gay or bi or something other than straight?

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:12 PM   #60
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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why can't a hero be gay? just because he's not canonically gay? a lot of things aren't canon, and canon itself isn't consistent, things get retconned, so why not? why is it a big deal?

i'm very happy he said that.
Canon is changed all the time, but more often than not, there are things about the character (whether they be characteristics or people or locations) that have consistently stuck with that character for the majority of their existence. Those things are typically considered sacred (for lack of a better word) and shouldn't be changed without very good reason.

Is Spider-Man being heterosexual one of those things? Hmm...I suppose. I mean...his love interests have all been women. The love of his life is a woman. The character has been understood to be heterosexual for the majority of his existence. So...why change that? For what reason? To make a statement? Why can't they simply create a new character? Why does an already existing character have to be altered just to prove a point?

I'm not against change. I think change is good. Sometimes, it's necessary. But, honestly, it depends on the character and the change you're making to that character. It also, I think, depends on what you, as in individual, are comfortable with, and how much you care about the character in question. I mean, despite everything I just said, I wouldn't blink if the next Spider-Man was black. On the other hand, I would be upset if the next Superman wasn't an alien from Krypton.

I don't know...when it comes to things like this, I don't think there's one right or wrong answer. However, it should be said that intent should play a huge factor in the response these decisions receive.


Last edited by The Boy Scout; 07-10-2013 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Grammatical error
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:14 PM   #61
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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I'm pretty sure comic book movie-goers go to see other comic book films.
Not necessarily. Just because we do doesn't mean everybody else does. Someone could have grown up with Spider-Man and only watches the Spider-Man films out of nostalgia. An interest in one hero doesn't equal interest in all of them.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:15 PM   #62
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

I agree cause with me im only interested in Spidey movies

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:16 PM   #63
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

Yeah..no thanks. lol

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:17 PM   #64
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

Having a gay superhero is fine, it's just changing one who has always been straight into a gay character that is going to annoy fans. I mean, fans ***** endlessly about the web shooters, you alter a character's entire identity, and they'll be screaming bloody murder.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:19 PM   #65
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

As many posters before me have noted, Garfield's statement was a joke and a serious question about our culture. Coming from the comic standpoint, I am on the middle of the fence, hence I cannot advocate one decision.

However, Spider-Man does not equal Peter Parker, as we have seen over the years: other characters have taken on the Spider infused costume and done well.

Besides, it is not impossible for audiences to embrace new, badass characters who lie on the LGBTQA spectrum: Captain Jack Harkness is one example, Jack Sparrow another.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:20 PM   #66
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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Canon is changed all the time, but more often than not, there are things about the character (whether they be characteristics or people or locations) that have consistently stuck with that character for the majority of their existence. Those things are typically considered sacred (for lack of a better word) and shouldn't be changed without very good reason.

Is Spider-Man being heterosexual one of those things? Hmm...I suppose. I mean...his love interests have all been women. The love of his life is a woman. The character has been understood to have been heterosexual for the majority of his existence. So...why change that? For what reason? To make a statement? Why can't they simply create a new character? Why does an already existing character have to be altered just to prove a point?

I'm not against change. I think change is good. Sometimes, it's necessary. But, honestly, it depends on the character and the change you're making to that character. It also, I think, depends on what you, as in individual, are comfortable with, and how much you care about the character in question. I mean, despite everything I just said, I wouldn't blink if the next Spider-Man was black. On the other hand, I would be upset if the next Superman wasn't an alien from Krypton.

I don't know...when it comes to things like this, I don't think there's one right or wrong answer. However, it should be said that intent should play a huge factor in the response these decisions receive.
I agree with everything you just said! Except if the next Spidey were black, he would have to be Miles or someone else, not Peter. Because Peter Parker's race is something you can't change just to change it. Like you said, it would have to be for a good reason. Jamie Foxx is black, and Marc Webb picked Foxx because he liked his acting style in Django. For Electro, and only Electro not Peter, it's okay for his race to be changed. For other's like Norman Osborn, it would be like Peter, his race shouldn't be changed. Like you said, some things can be changed and some things just can't depending upon the character and depending upon what you're changing about them.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:26 PM   #67
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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Canon is changed all the time, but more often than not, there are things about the character (whether they be characteristics or people or locations) that have consistently stuck with that character for the majority of their existence. Those things are typically considered sacred (for lack of a better word) and shouldn't be changed without very good reason.

Is Spider-Man being heterosexual one of those things? Hmm...I suppose. I mean...his love interests have all been women. The love of his life is a woman. The character has been understood to be heterosexual for the majority of his existence. So...why change that? For what reason? To make a statement? Why can't they simply create a new character? Why does an already existing character have to be altered just to prove a point?

I'm not against change. I think change is good. Sometimes, it's necessary. But, honestly, it depends on the character and the change you're making to that character. It also, I think, depends on what you, as in individual, are comfortable with, and how much you care about the character in question. I mean, despite everything I just said, I wouldn't blink if the next Spider-Man was black. On the other hand, I would be upset if the next Superman wasn't an alien from Krypton.

I don't know...when it comes to things like this, I don't think there's one right or wrong answer. However, it should be said that intent should play a huge factor in the response these decisions receive.
creating a new character wouldn't have the same impact. if it were to happen, it'd be important for it to be peter, because of visibility and, yeah, to make a statement. peter being gay wouldn't change anything about him other than making his love interests men. he'd still live with his aunt and uncle, get bit by the spider, lose ben, have the same enemies, make the same jokes, lose gwen, marry mj... and the love interests would be the same too, same personality and stuff. just different gender.

like i said, lgbt people are 9 times out of 10 the sidekicks, the butt of the joke, or 100% defined by their sexuality, while straight people aren't, and it'd be important to show them they can be the heroes too. just like peter being a hero with real life problems appeals to people and made them feel like they're not alone, if he were shown as gay, lgbt people wouldn't feel alone either. it would only be positive.

plus, lgbt people have had to learn how to relate to straight characters because there are very few gay ones with actual depth, it wouldn't kill straight people if for once in their lives things weren't catered to them.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:27 PM   #68
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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I agree with everything you just said! Except if the next Spidey were black, he would have to be Miles or someone else, not Peter.
Which I understand. Unlike most of you, I have no attachment to Spider-Man. There's honestly not much they can do to him that would bother me. There might be some things I would disagree with on principle, but I wouldn't be outraged simply because it was done to Spider-Man.

I don't think changing Peter's race would make much of a difference in the long run. It'd be a pretty cosmetic, inconsequential thing, in the context of the internal logic of a hypothetical story that otherwise didn't stray too much from the character's history. But, again, this is coming from someone who isn't really attached to the character. I understand why a huge fan would get upset over something like that.

Quote:
Like you said, it would have to be for a good reason. Jamie Foxx is black, and Marc Webb picked Foxx because he liked his acting style in Django. For Electro, and only Electro not Peter, it's okay for his race to be changed.
I think, as a general rule, supporting characters are more flexible than the main character(s) when it comes to this sort of thing.


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Old 07-10-2013, 10:39 PM   #69
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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creating a new character wouldn't have the same impact.
Why should that matter if the purpose is to introduce diversity? And if the film that new character starred in was popular, wouldn't it go on to create an impact?

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if it were to happen, it'd be important for it to be peter, because of visibility and, yeah, to make a statement. peter being gay wouldn't change anything about him other than making his love interests men.
That sounds like a pretty huge thing to me. I mean...aren't his romantic relationships with Gwen and MJ (especially MJ) considered essential to the character? Isn't MJ the love of his life? The Lois Lane to his Superman? What would be the purpose of negating such a long history of romance and character development/interaction just to make an impact?

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You could always he'd still live with his aunt and uncle, get bit by the spider, lose ben, have the same enemies, make the same jokes, lose gwen, marry mj... and the love interests would be the same too, same personality and stuff. just different gender.
So you're saying gender doesn't matter? Because it kind of does. I believe in equality, but differences between men and women exist that distinguish us as separate genders.

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...and it'd be important to show them they can be the heroes too.
I absolutely agree. So create a gay character and give him (or her) a movie.

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just like peter being a hero with real life problems appeals to people and made them feel like they're not alone, if he were shown as gay, lgbt people wouldn't feel alone either. it would only be positive.
Not necessarily. It's possible that some members of the LGBT community would feel like they were being pandered to if an established character's sexuality was changed to make a statement. What kind of message does that send?

EDIT: Although we disagree, I do like that we are keeping this civil, and I hope to see that continued further into the discussion.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:44 PM   #70
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

I wouldn't say he was joking, he was more making a personal supportive statement about something that he probably figures is very unlikely to happen though.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:45 PM   #71
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

Or, go all the way, Peter Parker by day, Spider-woman by night.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:47 PM   #72
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

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So you're saying gender doesn't matter? Because it kind of does.
It doesn't. At all. As a bi guy. I can readily say when I have feelings for a guy, they're the same exact feelings I have for a girl. To clarify this is only stating - they're people. It all plays out the same, it all happens the exact same way, the same thing attracts me to them. Hell, for the most part it's the same physical appearance that gets to me. Somebody's gender is as inconsequential as somebody's hair or eye color. And as for someone liking same gender - he'd still be the same guy, nothing at all would change about him or how he acts or anything.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:48 PM   #73
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Default Re: Andrew Garfield wants Spider-Man to be Gay?

I'd say sexuality is a pretty huge part of every individual's identity. Up there with gender and ethnicity. If not higher.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #74
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I'd say sexuality is a pretty huge part of every individual's identity. Up there with gender and ethnicity. If not higher.
Only because the world itself makes a big deal of it. If there was no fear of backlash from the world, there would be no difference. The only difference is wondering if people will accept you, but that's it. I'm in-between the lines. And the only thing that was ever different was that with girls I don't have to be afraid of people ridiculing me for going out with a girl, whereas that possibility is there with going out with a guy. But, other than that - there has been no difference.

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Old 07-10-2013, 10:51 PM   #75
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Only because the world itself makes a big deal of it. If there was no fear of backlash from the world, there would be no difference.
Even if I agree with you (which I don't), since we all live in this world, then for all intents and purposes, it does.

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