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Old 07-13-2013, 11:31 PM   #1
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - Part 91

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Old 07-13-2013, 11:31 PM   #2
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:31 PM   #3
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I said CAMPY humor. As in Otis ;)

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Old 07-13-2013, 11:34 PM   #4
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Oh god, Otis was a chore to watch and listen too. Comic book Lex would have had Otis killed immediately for being such a bumbling idiot, then go and hire a badass like Mercy Graves.

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Old 07-13-2013, 11:34 PM   #5
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I said CAMPY humor. As in Otis
I prefer MOS humor than a otis humor... now that's so... I don't know.. silly? too innocent? I don't want a comedy you know IMO...

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Old 07-13-2013, 11:40 PM   #6
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Reddit, but probably from someone recording the movie :/

He should take it down before the mods do.

PS. Graves was invented for Superman:TAS.

But even old Luthor was a bad-beep! I can't see him having an assistant like Otis.
the quality of the image is too good to be from the cinema... has a great quality

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:05 AM   #7
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on reddit, there's a post about the building where zod shed his armor. I take it ya'll already got on it right? Via reddit, from ianmazgelis.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


where did you get this image?
i got it from ianmazgelis via reddit.


http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comme...re_zods_armor/

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Old 07-14-2013, 02:20 AM   #8
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Not every Superman film has to feature a massive, world-ending threat, just like not every story from the comics has featured one. If written correctly, Metallo could work. The action would still be great, but on a smaller scale. Metallo's kryptonite heart could weaken Superman physically, forcing him to rely on his intelligence and cunning. It could be a more sinister and suspenseful film. If MOS was a pulp sci-fi film from the 1970's, MOS 2 could be a thriller from the 1970's/80's (especially if Lex is looming in the background pulling the strings).
The Bolded is my problem.The number 1 reason the GA liked this movie was because of the action,spectacle and visuals.Therefore reducing the scale of this sounds like a very bad idea.

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It's the heaviness on the Kryptonian elements that perhaps harmed the film the most though. It worked best when it was just Superman clashing with this grounded universe.

Superman stories aren't really about physical confrontation. Superman saves people. That is his entire description. Batman hunts villains. But occasionally they overlap and Superman has to fight, or Batman has to save someone.

A whole armada of Lexcorp designed military tech armed with Kryptonite irradiated ammunition is all MOS2 needs. But it mainly needs to have Superman trying to make a positive difference in the world and saving lives. And we need lots of fun moments with Clark and the DP crew. And of course the Lex casting is going to be really important.
I dont see how the Kryptonian elements hurt the film.If anything hurt the film it was the editing.
In the quest to fix what was wrong in MOS 1,they should not forsake what was right.The reason I keep harping on the action/spectacle aspect is because it was the number 1 attraction to the Ga they liked it so much the film is on its way to being the number 1 superhero reboot.

If you have metalo as the sole physical threat you loose this.If you have humans with kryptonite as the sole physical threat the action and spectacle dies down a lot.

There is nothing wrong with the action and scale in Superman-this is a department Superman as all heroes beat and to lose one of its stronger stregths i just silly.

For the sequel they shouldnt go smaller with the action scenes .Thats not an option.They do howver need to go deeper.That was a big flaw in this movie

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Old 07-14-2013, 03:42 AM   #9
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I dont see how the Kryptonian elements hurt the film.If anything hurt the film it was the editing.
In the quest to fix what was wrong in MOS 1,they should not forsake what was right.The reason I keep harping on the action/spectacle aspect is because it was the number 1 attraction to the Ga they liked it so much the film is on its way to being the number 1 superhero reboot.

If you have metalo as the sole physical threat you loose this.If you have humans with kryptonite as the sole physical threat the action and spectacle dies down a lot.

There is nothing wrong with the action and scale in Superman-this is a department Superman as all heroes beat and to lose one of its stronger stregths i just silly.

For the sequel they shouldntgo smaller with the action scenes .Thats not an option.They do howver need to go deeper.That was a big flaw in this movie
In trying to work out why the film didn't work for so many people I really did come to the conclusion that it's all the science fiction elements. It's not that they're bad per say, but by the end of the film they have overtaken the film. CGI is essential to all these elements, and all of the thematic and character building moments are put aside for World-Engine/Codex/Genesis-Chamber-CGI-Fighting-9/11.

I admire how they took the approach of a lengthy Krypton opening sequence. Followed by a very anamorphic, grounded approach to Earth. And then the 2nd half of the film is the clashing of these two worlds, where it's just Sci-fi CGI fest on Earth. But it's just too much so.

The best parts of the film for me were the earthy elements where it's just Clark/Superman juxtaposed in this realistic grounded depiction of Earth. The introduction to Clark followed by the flashback and then the whales sequence is just perfection for me.

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Old 07-14-2013, 07:36 AM   #10
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The Bolded is my problem.The number 1 reason the GA liked this movie was because of the action,spectacle and visuals.Therefore reducing the scale of this sounds like a very bad idea.



I dont see how the Kryptonian elements hurt the film.If anything hurt the film it was the editing.
In the quest to fix what was wrong in MOS 1,they should not forsake what was right.The reason I keep harping on the action/spectacle aspect is because it was the number 1 attraction to the Ga they liked it so much the film is on its way to being the number 1 superhero reboot.

If you have metalo as the sole physical threat you loose this.If you have humans with kryptonite as the sole physical threat the action and spectacle dies down a lot.

There is nothing wrong with the action and scale in Superman-this is a department Superman as all heroes beat and to lose one of its stronger stregths i just silly.

For the sequel they shouldnt go smaller with the action scenes .Thats not an option.They do howver need to go deeper.That was a big flaw in this movie
The GA LIKED it. I don't think they LOVED it. I feel like it would have bigger "legs" if it were better paced, written, and structured. The massive marketing campaign gave way to killer openings around the world, though.

Make a GREAT movie in general (and I think MOS is, in its way) like TDK, and I think the GA will eat it up even more. But I want them to explore a more day-in-the-life of a superhero type of movie sequel instead of a "villain driven" narrative (that can happen in MOS3).

But they should UP the scale on the earth-based environment. More flying shots. More realism in terms of the public's reaction to Superman.

And a natural color palette for the sequel. The dingy colors worked well for this more serious tone, but I want warmer, natural colors for the sequel.
If there's ANYTHING the studios should force the director to do, it's use organic colors with minimal overt grading

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #11
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The GA LIKED it. I don't think they LOVED it. I feel like it would have bigger "legs" if it were better paced, written, and structured. The massive marketing campaign gave way to killer openings around the world, though.

Make a GREAT movie in general (and I think MOS is, in its way) like TDK, and I think the GA will eat it up even more. But I want them to explore a more day-in-the-life of a superhero type of movie sequel instead of a "villain driven" narrative (that can happen in MOS3).

But they should UP the scale on the earth-based environment. More flying shots. More realism in terms of the public's reaction to Superman.

And a natural color palette for the sequel. The dingy colors worked well for this more serious tone, but I want warmer, natural colors for the sequel.
If there's ANYTHING the studios should force the director to do, it's use organic colors with minimal overt grading

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the sequel. Whether they will change the approach, change up the style, such as filming it differently to the hand-held shaky cam style, or up the colours etc. Or maybe Snyder likes this approach...

I wonder if this reaction to the death toll in Metropolis would make them confront it more, such as in the opening scenes.

It will be good to see more of Superman's life in Metropolis. I agree that to see more of his everyday life will make it more interesting and expand the mythos, and take time to explore different things, rather than the way MOS had to cram a lot in to set it all up.

I agree that MOS would've had more legs if it didn't have its flaws. But Snyder and co. would probably be hearing the reaction from fans about MOS and would see how they could make a better sequel. I hope so anyway.

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:37 AM   #12
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The GA LIKED it. I don't think they LOVED it. I feel like it would have bigger "legs" if it were better paced, written, and structured. The massive marketing campaign gave way to killer openings around the world, though.

Make a GREAT movie in general (and I think MOS is, in its way) like TDK, and I think the GA will eat it up even more. But I want them to explore a more day-in-the-life of a superhero type of movie sequel instead of a "villain driven" narrative (that can happen in MOS3).

But they should UP the scale on the earth-based environment. More flying shots. More realism in terms of the public's reaction to Superman.

And a natural color palette for the sequel. The dingy colors worked well for this more serious tone, but I want warmer, natural colors for the sequel.
If there's ANYTHING the studios should force the director to do, it's use organic colors with minimal overt grading
No, no, no and no.

A day in the life of a superhero sounds like a Raspberry Award waiting to happen. I'm sorry, I don't go to see superhero movies so I can see them save kittens from trees and stop muggers.

I go see them to watch them kick someone's butt.

If this were a series, then sure, I'd love to see them take their time, but it isn't. Most of what people are suggesting for sequels would be excellent television fodder. Not so much for a movie.

None of the ideas have been exciting, and I surely hope that Snyder doesn't fall into the trap of trying to appease the angry fans, because that always backfires.

We don't need a montage of Superman saving people. A better use of screen time would be for the opening sequence of the film be Clark saving some people from something dangerous. The people on the ground can be a mishmash of "He's so awesome, he's saving people!" and "I don't know about that guy. He's an alien."

He can go home, talk to Lois about some of his doubts and fears, maybe he even feels guilty because he couldn't save everyone this time around either, etc. Then they snuggle up and go to bed.

Boom. In fifteen minutes, we've covered Superman saving people, his guilt, his relationship with Lois, and how the people of Earth feel about him.

As the movie progresses, it turns out that the fire/disaster/whatever, was done on purpose, so Lois and Clark investigate it, and we find out Lex Luthor is possibly involved, along with some side-kick villain. I like the idea that Lex wants desperately for the world to see him as a savior, so he sets up horrible situations so that he can swoop in and offer money to rebuild, support, etc. He wants to advance himself financially and politically, plus he just wants to be loved (but since he's a sociopath, he doesn't know how to gain that love without being manipulative).

Depending on which 'side-kick' they decide to use (and who knows, maybe Lex turns out to be more of a sidekick by the end of the film. That would be fun, to see him being used), they could introduce another superhero into the film.

There's a few small fights, then of course, a bigger fight. Maybe they do have some way of weakening Clark, so that Lois (and maybe the DP crew) have to rescue/protect/care for Clark while he recovers.

At the end of the film, after Superman saves the world again, we can see people cheering him on, maybe even the guy who hated him in the beginning of the film.

During the last big battle, the 'sidekick' abandons Luthor, flexing his super villain muscles to escape, and set us up for a third film.

Interspersed in the movie would be mushy Lois and Clark stuff (but please, please no "I don't want anyone to hurt you Lois", and none of the "Clark, this isn't going to work because of _______________" . NO. Just no. They weren't like that in the first film, we don't need that in the second film).

And of course fun DP investigating of Lex. Maybe they get called into Perry's office to get spanked for getting caught/nearly getting caught/something like that. Perry scolds, but he's also amused by whatever they're up to.

Finally, we of course need to see Clark's mom. She can be visiting when all this goes down, and be a voice of reason for Clark if he starts getting obsessive about tracking Luthor. Or she can whap him upside the head if he does end up doing something stupid about Lois.

But no montages of Superman saving people. Waste of time.

Edit to quickly add that I suggested that Luthor could be sociopathic, but that is not the true clinical term for what I think he should be. Probably more of a border-line personality disorder, with some sociopathy and narcissism. Or something complicated like that. -grin-


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Old 07-14-2013, 09:00 AM   #13
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There doesn't have to be a montage of Superman saving people to get more an idea of him. I think when the sequel opens the opening scenes should be a lot more urgent than that. Maybe Lex having already taken over Metropolis, or the public still at odds over Superman's presence and actions. It should definitely still be plot driven. I don't think there will be time for a "saving a kitty" scene.

The sequel is lucky that it will already have Clark set up in Metropolis, already have Clark and Lois working as reporters, so we get to see how they all deal with whatever happens next. The MOS origin allowed that, so there is more time for more complex character development.

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:13 AM   #14
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The Bolded is my problem.The number 1 reason the GA liked this movie was because of the action,spectacle and visuals.Therefore reducing the scale of this sounds like a very bad idea.



I dont see how the Kryptonian elements hurt the film.If anything hurt the film it was the editing.
In the quest to fix what was wrong in MOS 1,they should not forsake what was right.The reason I keep harping on the action/spectacle aspect is because it was the number 1 attraction to the Ga they liked it so much the film is on its way to being the number 1 superhero reboot.

If you have metalo as the sole physical threat you loose this.If you have humans with kryptonite as the sole physical threat the action and spectacle dies down a lot.

There is nothing wrong with the action and scale in Superman-this is a department Superman as all heroes beat and to lose one of its stronger stregths i just silly.

For the sequel they shouldnt go smaller with the action scenes .Thats not an option.They do howver need to go deeper.That was a big flaw in this movie
Has there been polling to indicate the action is the number one thing the public liked ?
I dont see how that staement can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:15 AM   #15
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No, no, no and no.

A day in the life of a superhero sounds like a Raspberry Award waiting to happen. I'm sorry, I don't go to see superhero movies so I can see them save kittens from trees and stop muggers.

I go see them to watch them kick someone's butt.

If this were a series, then sure, I'd love to see them take their time, but it isn't. Most of what people are suggesting for sequels would be excellent television fodder. Not so much for a movie.

None of the ideas have been exciting, and I surely hope that Snyder doesn't fall into the trap of trying to appease the angry fans, because that always backfires.

We don't need a montage of Superman saving people. A better use of screen time would be for the opening sequence of the film be Clark saving some people from something dangerous. The people on the ground can be a mishmash of "He's so awesome, he's saving people!" and "I don't know about that guy. He's an alien."

He can go home, talk to Lois about some of his doubts and fears, maybe he even feels guilty because he couldn't save everyone this time around either, etc. Then they snuggle up and go to bed.

Boom. In fifteen minutes, we've covered Superman saving people, his guilt, his relationship with Lois, and how the people of Earth feel about him.

As the movie progresses, it turns out that the fire/disaster/whatever, was done on purpose, so Lois and Clark investigate it, and we find out Lex Luthor is possibly involved, along with some side-kick villain. I like the idea that Lex wants desperately for the world to see him as a savior, so he sets up horrible situations so that he can swoop in and offer money to rebuild, support, etc. He wants to advance himself financially and politically, plus he just wants to be loved (but since he's a sociopath, he doesn't know how to gain that love without being manipulative).

Depending on which 'side-kick' they decide to use (and who knows, maybe Lex turns out to be more of a sidekick by the end of the film. That would be fun, to see him being used), they could introduce another superhero into the film.

There's a few small fights, then of course, a bigger fight. Maybe they do have some way of weakening Clark, so that Lois (and maybe the DP crew) have to rescue/protect/care for Clark while he recovers.

At the end of the film, after Superman saves the world again, we can see people cheering him on, maybe even the guy who hated him in the beginning of the film.

During the last big battle, the 'sidekick' abandons Luthor, flexing his super villain muscles to escape, and set us up for a third film.

Interspersed in the movie would be mushy Lois and Clark stuff (but please, please no "I don't want anyone to hurt you Lois", and none of the "Clark, this isn't going to work because of _______________" . NO. Just no. They weren't like that in the first film, we don't need that in the second film).

And of course fun DP investigating of Lex. Maybe they get called into Perry's office to get spanked for getting caught/nearly getting caught/something like that. Perry scolds, but he's also amused by whatever they're up to.

Finally, we of course need to see Clark's mom. She can be visiting when all this goes down, and be a voice of reason for Clark if he starts getting obsessive about tracking Luthor. Or she can whap him upside the head if he does end up doing something stupid about Lois.

But no montages of Superman saving people. Waste of time.

Edit to quickly add that I suggested that Luthor could be sociopathic, but that is not the true clinical term for what I think he should be. Probably more of a border-line personality disorder, with some sociopathy and narcissism. Or something complicated like that. -grin-
Let me reiterate, saving a Kryptonian Kitty that has heat vision is totally acceptable .

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:19 AM   #16
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There doesn't have to be a montage of Superman saving people to get more an idea of him. I think when the sequel opens the opening scenes should be a lot more urgent than that. Maybe Lex having already taken over Metropolis, or the public still at odds over Superman's presence and actions. It should definitely still be plot driven. I don't think there will be time for a "saving a kitty" scene.

The sequel is lucky that it will already have Clark set up in Metropolis, already have Clark and Lois working as reporters, so we get to see how they all deal with whatever happens next. The MOS origin allowed that, so there is more time for more complex character development.
I actually meant to quote this.
Again, Bring on the Kryptonian Kitties with Heat Vision!

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:20 AM   #17
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Bring on the Kryptonian Kitties with Heat Vision!
Mos def!

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:24 AM   #18
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I'd like Jimmy to show up and befriend Clark. With Lois and hopefully Perry knowing his secret I'd like him to have a close friend who does not actually know who he is.

Other than Pete Ross (eventually, and we don't know how much) it really seems like Clark has had no close friends!
It would be good to have more people that Clark can play off.

An aspect I liked about the 'Superman: Doomsday' animated movie was that it did show those character moments with Clark, Lois and Jimmy. They all seemed close. From the opening scenes of Jimmy listening at Perry's door as he argues with Lois, to how Jimmy and Lois feel when Superman has died, Jimmy is working at a tabloid, then Lois comes to see him and asks for his help to investigate Lex. I really like the dynamic they have and that would add to the character moments if there was more of that in the MOS sequel. The whole dynamic between Clark, Lois, Perry and Jimmy would be great to see, actually. It would help humanise Clark and make him more relatable, as well as being classic Superman.

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:34 AM   #19
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Let me reiterate, saving a Kryptonian Kitty that has heat vision is totally acceptable .
They could do a short film on that. Superman and his new kitty companion, Fluffy.

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:05 PM   #20
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There doesn't have to be a montage of Superman saving people to get more an idea of him. I think when the sequel opens the opening scenes should be a lot more urgent than that. Maybe Lex having already taken over Metropolis, or the public still at odds over Superman's presence and actions. It should definitely still be plot driven. I don't think there will be time for a "saving a kitty" scene.

The sequel is lucky that it will already have Clark set up in Metropolis, already have Clark and Lois working as reporters, so we get to see how they all deal with whatever happens next. The MOS origin allowed that, so there is more time for more complex character development.
I personally think MOS2 should be character-driven, and MOS3 should be plot driven.

MOS as the appetizer (action and plot with a bit of character), MOS2 as the meal (character and plot with a bit of action) and MOS3 as the desert (HEAVY on plot, but with a bit of action and character).

If you have the sequel plot oriented, then that risk some character development being sacrificed. It SHOULD have plenty of plot, but one that allows for a lot of character progression and establishment.

MOS3 should "reward" the progression of the characters with a great plot, an iconic villain, and legendary action.

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:20 PM   #21
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I personally think MOS2 should be character-driven, and MOS3 should be plot driven.

MOS as the appetizer (action and plot with a bit of character), MOS2 as the meal (character and plot with a bit of action) and MOS3 as the desert (HEAVY on plot, but with a bit of action and character).

If you have the sequel plot oriented, then that risk some character development being sacrificed. It SHOULD have plenty of plot, but one that allows for a lot of character progression and establishment.

MOS3 should "reward" the progression of the characters with a great plot, an iconic villain, and legendary action.
I get what you are saying, and it would be nice in a lot of ways, but I just don't think these movies, and Snyder, are built that way. What you are saying sounds kind of like "The Empire Strikes Back", which was GREAT to see when it first came out, to see the characters we were introduced to just be given so much development like that. It would be great to get a similar feeling when seeing MOS2, to relate more to these characters and really feel like we know them.

If Snyder decided to go that way, I wouldn't mind at all. I want more emotional resonance throughout the movie. But I find it hard to see Synder scaling the action down that much for the climax. But if he and Goyer find a great balance, that will be great too. I do think there will be a big action set piece for the climax. I do hope it is approached in a new way, very different from MOS, so it doesn't feel like a retread.

I wonder if Snyder is going to make the sequel more self-contained, or if he is thinking about building up the story for a trilogy (the way we see recent trilogies do it.) There is also the question of the JL movie, whether it comes after MOS2 or 3 and how that might affect a MOS trilogy.

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 9

The action could put Superman in more jeopardy. Hopefully a little more blood and scratches would do it. The Incredibles is PG and the main character gets a gash from the enemy robot. Heck, Spider-Man had the main character being PULVERIZED with some blood in his mouth.

Make it feel like Superman couldn't survive this one, and I think there'll be a more intense action scene in the making already.

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 9

Dex-Starr the Red Lantern rage kitty guest appearance. Make it happen WB.

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Old 07-14-2013, 02:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willi Berg View Post
There doesn't have to be a montage of Superman saving people to get more an idea of him. I think when the sequel opens the opening scenes should be a lot more urgent than that. Maybe Lex having already taken over Metropolis, or the public still at odds over Superman's presence and actions. It should definitely still be plot driven. I don't think there will be time for a "saving a kitty" scene.

The sequel is lucky that it will already have Clark set up in Metropolis, already have Clark and Lois working as reporters, so we get to see how they all deal with whatever happens next. The MOS origin allowed that, so there is more time for more complex character development.
It doesn't have to be urgent. Remember the transition from BB to TDK? In BB, we saw Bruce Wayne take the law into his own hands as he became the first Gothamite to take action against Carmine Falcone. In TDK, we saw how Batman (and Harvey Dent) furthered his war on crime and had a positive effect on the city, and Gotham was in transition from ****** crime-filled area, to a more liveable place. You can apply similar logic from MOS to MOS II, where you had a Superman that fought off alien threats for the sake of humanity, now let's see how Superman would function in a normal city (decent levels of crime etc), or even with world issues at hand. The point is to see how the Superman ideal has been recognized by the people of Metropolis and the World, and MOSII would be a perfect opportunity to explore that.

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Old 07-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 9

These things are so annoying.

http://9gag.com/gag/aNeZz7G?ref=fbp


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