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Old 07-24-2013, 10:33 PM   #501
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Default Re: "Are These All The Reviews You Brought?" -The Official Review Thread

I'd say wishful thinking because everyone is acting like this movie is the Second coming. In reality, I would say it's most remarkable achievement is not being a complete disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni Boy
But it's clear why they did that (as with IM3) because at the end of the day it's a superhero movie and they needed something in there to wow the kiddies.
That right there is just making excuses, pure and simple. What an absolute cop out. You can't praise a movie for one thing and then ignore the aspects that undermine it. It's ending is completely different to Iron Man. Iron Man's action scene at the end was not at odds with the rest of the film. This one was. In a movie filled with Ninjas, Samurai's, martial artists, apparently that wasn't enough to 'wow the kiddies'?

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It's not a direct adaptation of the comic. If you go into it expecting that you're foolish. They used that story as the thematic setting for a film that still lives within the confines of the X-Men movie-verse. They weren't just going to throw it all away and make a solo outing.
I didn't go into this with ANY expectations but I think you're wrong about the X-Men stuff. It would have been perfectly easy to not reference a bunch of stuff. I mean, the whole
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Jean Grey subplot didn't need to be so bloody obvious. It ended up just bordering on fan service, showing Famke for the sake of it.


It's still a good, fun movie. It's just these key things that really stop it from being great and getting out from under the tarnished image of Wolverine. It gets SO close, it's just scratching at the surface. That's what bothers me the most, the fact that it was nearly there.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:42 PM   #502
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I don't think many people have said it's the best comic book movie or a game changer. Most people have said it's just "good and even some very good". Well by reading around here I don't get the impression that it's the best movie ever. I expect a solid Wolverine movie, but not the best. I also don't expect for it to be true to the comics completely.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:43 PM   #503
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Yeah, that's a fair summation of it. I've definitely seen a few quotes being thrown around though, particularly on this page, about it being the best comic book film of the year etc and I think that is definitely exaggeration.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:43 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17 View Post
That right there is just making excuses, pure and simple. What an absolute cop out. You can't praise a movie for one thing and then ignore the aspects that undermine it.
How is that a cop out? If I go to a restaurant and have an amazing dinner but the dessert was way too sweet I'm not going to say the entire meal was garbage. That's a very obtuse way of thinking.

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It's ending is completely different to Iron Man. Iron Man's action scene at the end was not at odds with the rest of the film. This one was.
Agree to disagree. I think IM3, MOS and Wolverine all have the same issue with the final act/battle being way too different in tone and pacing from the first two acts.

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In a movie filled with Ninjas, Samurai's, martial artists, apparently that wasn't enough to 'wow the kiddies'?
Not saying this derogatorily, but do you have kids? I do (9 and 6), and I can tell you that I will not allow them to watch Wolverine because it is very adult oriented. Except for the final battle, which I think is exactly what kids would want to see in a superhero movie (but still very brutal). Ninjas jumping around in the dark doesn't wow any kids I know. Not nowadays.


To me it was the best superhero/comic book movie of the year. It's a comic book movie that doesn't feel like one for 85% of it. That's a big achievement for this franchise.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:46 PM   #505
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Default Re: "Are These All The Reviews You Brought?" -The Official Review Thread

I haven't seen anyone refer to this as any kind of "second coming". People just seem to be happy it appears to be good.

I saw it last night, I loved it.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:47 PM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni Boy
Not saying this derogatorily, but do you have kids? I do (9 and 6), and I can tell you that I will not allow them to watch Wolverine because it is very adult oriented. Except for the final battle, which I think is exactly what kids would want to see in a superhero movie (but still very brutal). Ninjas jumping around in the dark doesn't wow any kids I know. Not nowadays.
But that's my point... You can't have it both ways. You can't aim for a more adult audience and then pander to kids at the last minute. I mean, this film had violence, mature themes and Wolvie even drops the 'F Bomb'. Don't cheapen that goal and vision of the film with
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
robots and 2D villains
by catering to a different audience at the last minute. It undermines everything the film is successful at.

And if Ninjas can't wow kids then they're not being done right.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:55 PM   #507
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Default Re: "Are These All The Reviews You Brought?" -The Official Review Thread

But... that's what they did. That's what IM3 did, that's what MOS did. Their final battles went overboard and undermined the rest of the movie. Why does that make the whole movie crap? I don't understand that mentality, especially because all three of those movies do manage to redeem themselves a bit after the final fight with good character moments. It doesn't have to be black and white, and I don't think it's fair to crap on an entire movie because of one or two scenes I felt were overdone.

And if you can find one modern day ninja movie/tv show that isn't cartoony and still appealing to kids I'd like to know what it is. Saying "they're not being done right" to me is a bad generalization. Kids want/expect more outrageousness from their entertainment nowadays than from when I was a kid. But then again I loved the hell out of 3 Ninjas.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #508
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Default Re: "Are These All The Reviews You Brought?" -The Official Review Thread

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Having Silver Samurai as a robot did hurt the film? So if he was just like Silver Samurai in the comics with Harada as the Silver Samurai, would it make the film so much better?

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17 View Post
Yeah, that's a fair summation of it. I've definitely seen a few quotes being thrown around though, particularly on this page, about it being the best comic book film of the year etc and I think that is definitely exaggeration.
Well that remains to be seen, I haven't been complete blown away with most comic book movies this year, yes even Iron Man 3, which most critics love so much. So for people to say it's the best comic book movie so far this year isn't exactly that exaggerating, well at least from my point of view.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:58 PM   #510
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Perfect comic adaptions from the comics or graphic novels do not always work on screen. Take the Watchmen, one of my all time favorite graphic novels that stunk up the movie screen.

You just can't take comics and perfectly put it on screen, it doesn't work that way.

This movie is fricken awesome yet you find faults..

I'll assume you'll never be happy Wolvieboy

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:59 PM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psylockolussus View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Having Silver Samurai as a robot did hurt the film? So if he was just like Silver Samurai in the comics with Harada as the Silver Samurai, would it make the film so much better?
Not really because the story isn't written to benefit that change. You can't alter one major aspect of a two hour movie and expect it to be better. Just look at Gangster Squad.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:00 PM   #512
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Also, it was looking good at first but NOW even the die hard fans are ripping it a new one.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:02 PM   #513
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There's a different between 'going overboard' and completely changing the tone and feel of your film.

Man of Steel was an epic sci-fi film from start to finish... Iron Man was a tech based action film, start to finish... The Wolverine started as a contemplative martial arts film, continued along that path and then BANG ...... completely different tone.

Also I never said the whole movie was crap. In fact I call it a good, fun movie. But I think you're totally undervaluing the importance of an ending. It's not just 'one or two scenes', it's a fairly significant lynchpin that a story hangs on. Of course an ending can affect a whole film, if it's a pointless ending it can make all of the action and character choices leading up to it redundant which can just ruin the whole experience.

I'm not saying that's what happened here but you're definitely selling short how tonally different the ending is from the rest of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni Boy
Saying "they're not being done right" to me is a bad generalization. Kids want/expect more outrageousness from their entertainment nowadays than from when I was a kid. But then again I loved the hell out of 3 Ninjas.
Nope, I disagree entirely. If it's done right, anything can be made exciting and engaging.

Edit: So because I don't love this film, "I'll never be happy?". That's not true at all.

@psylockolussus,
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Tonally, yes. Wolverine's fight with Shingen in the Yoshida house was a great scene and fight. Tonally, that felt perfect and so much more climactic to Logan's journey. THAT felt like a great build up of the film that preceded it. The facility fight scene, with robots and lizard lady, just felt like it was from a completely different movie. It was a huge shame to end on that note when it flew so close to being a great movie up until that point.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:02 PM   #514
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Well that remains to be seen, I haven't been complete blown away with most comic book movies this year, yes even Iron Man 3, which most critics love so much. So for people to say it's the best comic book movie so far this year isn't exactly that exaggerating, well at least from my point of view.
Exactly, it isnt that far of a stretch...Not many have come out this year and the few that did I.E. IM3 werent that great to begin with...the standard is not that high, maybe if this was last year with the Avengers and Dark Knight Rises.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:03 PM   #515
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Also, it was looking good at first but NOW even the die hard fans are ripping it a new one.
Almost every movie gets ripped apart by some die hard fans. I think the only movie that wasn't too ripped apart was "The Dark Knight".

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:04 PM   #516
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Default Re: "Are These All The Reviews You Brought?" -The Official Review Thread

Well I thought Man of Steel was complete crap save about 15 minutes (the Faora fight being the apex) so if that's the be-all-end-all of superhero movies of the year for anyone then I don't expect them to agree with my assessment of Wolverine or IM3

And saying "if done right, anything can be made exciting and engaging" is completely missing the point of my statement: What's engaging and fun for kids isn't automatically engaging and fun for adults, and vice versa. So, again, find me a very adult, well executed ninja movie or TV show from the past 10 years that kids ate up and I'll redact my point that standard issue ninjas don't do much for the kiddies in 2013.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:07 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Wolverine
Perfect comic adaptions from the comics or graphic novels do not always work on screen. Take the Watchmen, one of my all time favorite graphic novels that stunk up the movie screen.

You just can't take comics and perfectly put it on screen, it doesn't work that way.

This movie is fricken awesome yet you find faults..

I'll assume you'll never be happy Wolvieboy
Avengers made me happy. In fact, all the Marvel movies made me happy. I could still find faults in them though. The Wolverine made me happy too... So I'm only allowed to love or hate a movie, I can't have any constructive criticisms? There's no middle ground? Fanboy logic... "THIS IS TEH BEST" or "THIS SUX" are the only two possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni Boy
And saying "if done right, anything can be made exciting and engaging" is completely missing the point of my statement: What's engaging and fun for kids isn't automatically engaging and fun for adults, and vice versa. So, again, find me a very adult, well executed ninja movie or TV show from the past 10 years that kids ate up and I'll redact my point that standard issue ninjas don't do much for the kiddies in 2013.
Naruto... Avatar?

Also, you're still missing my point. If this movie was meant to appeal to kids AND adults, that should have been consistent throughout the whole film, not just crowbarred in at the end. Don't make a movie that's 80% for adults and then take a left turn.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:09 PM   #518
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well the critics are starting to agree with you Wolvieboy anyhow.

the new reviews are starting to compare it as equal to Last Stand to just barely above Origins

I think they are all wrong, this movie was great.

and the critics were all wrong with DREDD also

great comic film..

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:13 PM   #519
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Naruto... Avatar?
You mean two outrageous fantasy based cartoon series with ninja-like themes? Not even at all comparable.

Again: if you can find one modern day ninja movie/tv show that isn't cartoony and still appealing to kids I'd like to know what it is.

The Wolverine has standard issue black clad ninjas jumping around in the dark and sword fighting. Great. But that doesn't appeal much to kids nowadays.

[QUOTE=Wolvieboy17;26458827]Also, you're still missing my point. If this movie was meant to appeal to kids AND adults, that should have been consistent throughout the whole film, not just crowbarred in at the end. Don't make a movie that's 80% for adults and then take a left turn.

I'm not missing the point, I think you're not understanding that every single superhero movie that the studios want kids to go see will have at least one or two scenes targeted towards them. First Class had them too. That's their target demographic, and I won't hold it against them for including them. Doesn't mean I wn't deduct points for it, but it is what it is. Welcome to Hollywood.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:18 PM   #520
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Yeah, that's a fair summation of it. I've definitely seen a few quotes being thrown around though, particularly on this page, about it being the best comic book film of the year etc and I think that is definitely exaggeration.
That was this critic quote...

"Iron Man 3 may have had better jokes and Man Of Steel slicker effects but this has more soul than the pair of them. Which is why, for me, it's the most gripping comic book movie of the year."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/movies/32...ew-and-trailer

And it's not hard to believe. If The Wolverine beats Iron Man 3, it's the new king of the hill. I think most agree MoS fell quite flat.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #521
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No, you're not getting it at all. A movie is created with the audience in mind. You might have one character or a tone or an element meant to appeal to one demographic but it needs to be (and normally is) consistent THROUGHOUT THE FILM. You don't just chuck in a CGI talking rabbit at the very end for the 'kid' demographic.

And I still think your argument about Ninjas is ridiculous. Ninjas are basically just the perfect henchman for constant martial arts. They're ten times more interesting than the standard, generic fodder for a superhero character... So what you're basically saying is, kids wont watch anything unless it's got aliens or robots for someone to fight? Everything else is 'too boring?

I mean, hell, make the ninjas all wear different colours. Make some of them mutants, I don't care. Just stick to the theme and tone.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:23 PM   #522
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I loved the first two acts of IM3 because of the emphasis on characterization. The humor was definitely in your face but when RDJ delivers it it works. The Wolverine trumps IM3's drama/suspense/character beats for me in spades. Others will obviously disagree, but I was floored by well they pulled it off here.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:27 PM   #523
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Also, you're still missing my point. If this movie was meant to appeal to kids AND adults, that should have been consistent throughout the whole film, not just crowbarred in at the end. Don't make a movie that's 80% for adults and then take a left turn.
Not for nothing, but my superhero-loving nephew would be scared ****less by some of the stuff that happens in that third act.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:28 PM   #524
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One thing I really liked was how
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
when Wolvie gets his claws snapped off, we see that he can grow/regenerate the bone claws. That said, I don't get why he lost his adamantium claws at all. It seemed like an arbitrary thing to lose... I mean, I get the motif of a hero losing their powers in order to regain humanity but since he still has claws and powers... I dunno, it's just annoying :P Bad timing if he's going to be fighting a bunch of robots in the next movie

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:37 PM   #525
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Default Re: "Are These All The Reviews You Brought?" -The Official Review Thread

How about some fan reviews you guys and gals! Don't make me be the first one tomorrow!

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461895

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