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Old 07-23-2013, 01:23 PM   #126
Malcolm Belmont
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

I think Ultron will end up being a Corrupt J.A.R.V.A.I.S..it would make sense..or Ultron is a creation of Iron Man..

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Old 07-23-2013, 02:22 PM   #127
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On the contrary, I think that you're trying to find reasons for him to do so.

I don't see how it can be concluded that Tony Stark will develop an A.I. to solve his problems when his current A.I. attempted to kill the love of his life. Why make an autonomous A.I. when you've seen first hand the dangers of such a thing? There would be no point in doing so; JARVIS does everything he needs(within reason) for the time being, and him going back to the drawing board with the mentality of 'ok, so JARVIS screwed up, how can I make him better for next time' would be too reminiscent of his plight in IM3 in the first place. He's past that stage by now.
Well, if you notice that endangering loved ones never slows Tony's creating down (or else he would have stopped after IM1) and that he fixes problems instead of shutting stuff down you'll realize that JARVIS didn't get shut down at the end of IM3 because if Tony is consistent, he has no plans to stop using his "buddy" JARVIS at all.

And I don't need reasons for him to do so, every movie presents new problems, I'm just pointing out that there's no reason for him not to do so, so it's a valid story direction.

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Old 07-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #128
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

I'm hoping that Tony helps SHIELD create an AI defense program and things go bad from there.

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Old 07-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #129
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

I think Ultron should be an idea from Thanos that is put in the mind of a weak human like say Samuel Sterns who is still under close surveillance by the military after the events of TIH. I mean the character is there and he could be used in that way and he has the intelligence and could lead to The Leader personality coming out. Just an idea.

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Old 07-23-2013, 11:20 PM   #130
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So what do we want his body to look like?

Something inspired by stark's armor like in that fan art? Or a full on Ultron?

I think that Ultron, even the comic version can be directly translated on screen. All you really need is that head with that indenting mouth, any silver colored body from there would do

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Old 07-24-2013, 01:09 AM   #131
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I think that AIM may be involved in creating Ultron (possibly even using a version of Extremis). HYDRA being involved as well wouldn't surprise me either, nor the Leader as well.

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Old 07-24-2013, 01:55 AM   #132
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i think it is possible that robert redford's shield character may have commissioned pym to work on the ultron project in secrecy, with the goal to replace avengers in the future with an army of ultron. However, after pym finished with its ai, they couldn't build an ideal android body for it so he turned to stark for help. Stark is now no longer iron man so he decided to help, but pym's ai becomes sentinel and gone rogue. Stark felt responsible so he becomes iron man again so he can put down the monster he helped created. In the ant man movie, it could deal with the aftermath of a2.
thats not a bad theory! It needa huge death scene in the 3 movie

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:20 AM   #133
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I'd be upset if Hank Pym didn't create Ultron. Its a driving for for his character and for Ultron's. Ultron is sort of Hank Pym's dark side, dark secrets made flesh (metal). He is Pym's hate, fear, loathing, resentments, angry, and all that stuff. Ultron was created using Pym's brain patterns so its sort of all Pym's fault that Ultron hates and wants to wipe out humanity. Its Pym's constant failure, reminder, of his dark self.
And Ultron is also like his son, its also a generational thing. Pym created Ultron and passed down to him all his hatreds, fears, intolerance, etc. Then Ultron creates the Vision who Ultron tries to pass all his bigotry and hatred down to, but this is the "grandfather's" chance to redeem himself and the grandfather (who has changed his ways) saves the grandson (Vision) from the same hatred. So Pym is like the father of Ultron and the grandfather of the Vision.
I'd be sad and a little disappointed if Pym wasn't somehow the main creator of Ultron in Avengers 2. Even if they have to do a round about way of explaining it. Like He is this scientist who used to work with Stark, Banner, and SHIELD, in the past. But has since fallen from grace with all of them. Now Pym sees his former friends and colleagues being celebrated as heroes and loved by all and a small part of him hates that. He finishes his AI he and Stark started years ago (with Jarvis) and uses his own brain patterns to create Ultron. Then Ultron becomes the psycho robot from the comics we know and the unknown scientist has to help the Avengers stop his creation. After he helps them stop Ultron, with the aid of Ultron's creation, the Vision, Pym and Janet join the Avengers and work for SHIELD as special agents. Pym's way to make up for his mistakes, crimes, and all the death and destruction Ultron caused. So he could become Ant Man after the fact, after Ultron and after teaming up with the Avengers to stop Ultron. I'd even be fine with, in the movie, if he had as much action scenes as that normal human scientist from Avengers 1 (the guy who knew Thor).
Having Jarvis be the original Ultron AI prototype helps involve Stark in a big way. So it would give Stark a bigger role to go with his bigger paycheck. But with the idea that (along with the original cast of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Hulk, and Fury, and possibly Falcon) we are also going to include Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, and Ultron for that matter, and possibly Vision, makes me wonder how much more could they include. Could they include Hank Pym and Janet? Would they have the screen time to make sure they are involved, even if they are normal humans not involved in action scenes?

No matter what though, news that Pym isn't going to be an Avenger or part of the story (thats what Whedon said right?) makes me sad. Pym needs to not only create Ultron, but be around to see him kill and destroy. We need to see it effect Pym. Because, to me, Ultron is really a Pym story. Ultron is ALL about Pym to me. And it would be a real shame if they totally ditched him in the Avengers by not showing him at all. I mean cool if its mentioned that he created Ultron, but to not see Pym feel responsible and try to stop Ultron personally...


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Old 07-24-2013, 07:15 AM   #134
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

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I'd be upset if Hank Pym didn't create Ultron. Its a driving for for his character and for Ultron's. Ultron is sort of Hank Pym's dark side, dark secrets made flesh (metal). He is Pym's hate, fear, loathing, resentments, angry, and all that stuff. Ultron was created using Pym's brain patterns so its sort of all Pym's fault that Ultron hates and wants to wipe out humanity. Its Pym's constant failure, reminder, of his dark self.
And Ultron is also like his son, its also a generational thing. Pym created Ultron and passed down to him all his hatreds, fears, intolerance, etc. Then Ultron creates the Vision who Ultron tries to pass all his bigotry and hatred down to, but this is the "grandfather's" chance to redeem himself and the grandfather (who has changed his ways) saves the grandson (Vision) from the same hatred. So Pym is like the father of Ultron and the grandfather of the Vision.
I'd be sad and a little disappointed if Pym wasn't somehow the main creator of Ultron in Avengers 2. Even if they have to do a round about way of explaining it. Like He is this scientist who used to work with Stark, Banner, and SHIELD, in the past. But has since fallen from grace with all of them. Now Pym sees his former friends and colleagues being celebrated as heroes and loved by all and a small part of him hates that. He finishes his AI he and Stark started years ago (with Jarvis) and uses his own brain patterns to create Ultron. Then Ultron becomes the psycho robot from the comics we know and the unknown scientist has to help the Avengers stop his creation. After he helps them stop Ultron, with the aid of Ultron's creation, the Vision, Pym and Janet join the Avengers and work for SHIELD as special agents. Pym's way to make up for his mistakes, crimes, and all the death and destruction Ultron caused. So he could become Ant Man after the fact, after Ultron and after teaming up with the Avengers to stop Ultron. I'd even be fine with, in the movie, if he had as much action scenes as that normal human scientist from Avengers 1 (the guy who knew Thor).
Having Jarvis be the original Ultron AI prototype helps involve Stark in a big way. So it would give Stark a bigger role to go with his bigger paycheck. But with the idea that (along with the original cast of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Hulk, and Fury, and possibly Falcon) we are also going to include Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, and Ultron for that matter, and possibly Vision, makes me wonder how much more could they include. Could they include Hank Pym and Janet? Would they have the screen time to make sure they are involved, even if they are normal humans not involved in action scenes?

No matter what though, news that Pym isn't going to be an Avenger or part of the story (thats what Whedon said right?) makes me sad. Pym needs to not only create Ultron, but be around to see him kill and destroy. We need to see it effect Pym. Because, to me, Ultron is really a Pym story. Ultron is ALL about Pym to me. And it would be a real shame if they totally ditched him in the Avengers by not showing him at all. I mean cool if its mentioned that he created Ultron, but to not see Pym feel responsible and try to stop Ultron personally...
Yeah I hear you

I think that you are right, but the big screen isnīt like the comics. They will change some things. You can still enjoy the movie without the MCU being like the comics tho.

What bugs me is that they are making an Ant-man movie after A:AoU. How can they do that if they remove Ultron from the char? Sure there are a lot of other stuff to write about, but the Ultron scenario has a huge impact on Pym!

I donīt know how they will swing this but I am sure that Whedon will make a great movie!!

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Old 07-24-2013, 07:31 AM   #135
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In Avenegers Earths Mighiest Heroes isn't it said that Stark helps Pym create Ultron? I assumed this meant handing across the JARVIS technology

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Old 07-24-2013, 08:13 AM   #136
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In Avenegers Earths Mighiest Heroes isn't it said that Stark helps Pym create Ultron? I assumed this meant handing across the JARVIS technology
Yes it is. But it seems as if A:AoU is going to run a story without Pym, so probably Tony alone or with the help of someone else.

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Old 07-24-2013, 08:16 AM   #137
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Yeah I hear you

I think that you are right, but the big screen isnīt like the comics. They will change some things. You can still enjoy the movie without the MCU being like the comics tho.

What bugs me is that they are making an Ant-man movie after A:AoU. How can they do that if they remove Ultron from the char? Sure there are a lot of other stuff to write about, but the Ultron scenario has a huge impact on Pym!

I donīt know how they will swing this but I am sure that Whedon will make a great movie!!
I will still watch and probably enjoy it, and I am not expecting it to be the exact same as the comics. But there should be some level of similarity, especially something like this. Ultron is a Pym defining moment and Pym is an Ultron defining character. I don't mind if they alter the order of things, like him becoming Ant Man after Ultron. But I still want him to create Ultron and to be involved in trying to stop him just so we can see him react to his creation causing so much death and destruction. Other than those two things I am not really worried what else they do with the two characters or what order.
I am also sure Whedon and Wright are smart enough to realize that hard core fans will get upset if Hank Pym isn't involved in some way, but I might still be sad (more sad than angry or upset) that Pym was only mentioned as creating Ultron and not shown in the Avengers. And would then have no real involvement in the character.
I guess they could have Pym, in the Ant Man movie, obsessing over his involvement in the Ultron disaster after the fact and become self loathing and blaming himself for everything. But thats after the fact. And maybe they could have him try to become very close with his "grandson" Vision in the Avengers films, but still I would miss the Ultron stuff.
To me Ultron always seemed like a Pym story with the Avengers as co-stars.

My dream was that Pym joins the Avengers in film 2, we get to know him a little but the spotlight isn't on him of Wasp. Then in film 3 it is. He creates Ultron out of secret dark loathing and fears and anxiety from being an Avenger and Ultron turns on his father's friends. This set up would help you get to know Pym before he creates Ultron and then get to see a different side of him and why Ultron exists and stuff. (My dream is also that by Avengers 4 Pym is still on the team as well as Wasp while the others leave, and then new Avengers are brought in and the cast rotates.)
With this new set up my hope is that Dr. Pym is shown as a normal average human scientist with no powers who used to work with Stark, Banner, and SHIELD and creates Ultron, and because of his secret loathing of the Avengers Ultron goes mad. Pym's involvement is minimal, no action for him just helping out as an average human scientist could (like Eric Selvig in the Avengers film) and in the end the Avengers destroy Ultron. Pym was still there but didn't do much, but he would still be there.


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Old 07-24-2013, 09:05 AM   #138
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I will still watch and probably enjoy it, and I am not expecting it to be the exact same as the comics. But there should be some level of similarity, especially something like this. Ultron is a Pym defining moment and Pym is an Ultron defining character. I don't mind if they alter the order of things, like him becoming Ant Man after Ultron. But I still want him to create Ultron and to be involved in trying to stop him just so we can see him react to his creation causing so much death and destruction. Other than those two things I am not really worried what else they do with the two characters or what order.
I am also sure Whedon and Wright are smart enough to realize that hard core fans will get upset if Hank Pym isn't involved in some way, but I might still be sad (more sad than angry or upset) that Pym was only mentioned as creating Ultron and not shown in the Avengers. And would then have no real involvement in the character.
I guess they could have Pym, in the Ant Man movie, obsessing over his involvement in the Ultron disaster after the fact and become self loathing and blaming himself for everything. But thats after the fact. And maybe they could have him try to become very close with his "grandson" Vision in the Avengers films, but still I would miss the Ultron stuff.
To me Ultron always seemed like a Pym story with the Avengers as co-stars.

My dream was that Pym joins the Avengers in film 2, we get to know him a little but the spotlight isn't on him of Wasp. Then in film 3 it is. He creates Ultron out of secret dark loathing and fears and anxiety from being an Avenger and Ultron turns on his father's friends. This set up would help you get to know Pym before he creates Ultron and then get to see a different side of him and why Ultron exists and stuff. (My dream is also that by Avengers 4 Pym is still on the team as well as Wasp while the others leave, and then new Avengers are brought in and the cast rotates.)
With this new set up my hope is that Dr. Pym is shown as a normal average human scientist with no powers who used to work with Stark, Banner, and SHIELD and creates Ultron, and because of his secret loathing of the Avengers Ultron goes mad. Pym's involvement is minimal, no action for him just helping out as an average human scientist could (like Eric Selvig in the Avengers film) and in the end the Avengers destroy Ultron. Pym was still there but didn't do much, but he would still be there.
Yes I agree with you absolutley! But I can see how hard it could be to pull it off. I also rather see a movie that makes sense if you only look at earlier movies i.e TA or IM than a movie that includes char like Pym and Janet and might not be very good as a movie but be in correspondence with the comics.

Itīs hard to explain but if Whedon was to consider Janet and Pym something else has to "removed" because they need introduction even if they onle were presented as scientists. It could also be hard to fit in all pieces and make sense of them. Fanboys like us are still a minority and they arenīt gonna include pieces to please the fans at the possible expense of some of the awesomeness of what most none-fans would consider a good movie.

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Old 07-24-2013, 09:57 AM   #139
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Id rather Stark not be directly involved in the creation of Ultron because I dont want TA2 to be even more Stark-centric than TA was.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:19 AM   #140
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Id rather Stark not be directly involved in the creation of Ultron because I dont want TA2 to be even more Stark-centric than TA was.
That is a valid point

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:53 AM   #141
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I think Stark will be responsible for creating Ultron, in that, Ultron will be derived from the same tech that he (and possibly Pym) used to create J.A.R.V.I.S.'s A.I..

Only, Stark later took it and repurposed it for the sole purpose of being a weapon: Ultron.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:13 AM   #142
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What if the reason Whedon is leaving out Pym as Ultron's creator is because he wants the creator to be an outright villain who actually becomes Ultron at the end? For movie purposes, it would give Ultron a human face as audiences might not be able to relate to a pure robot who has no expressions and is completely CGI. Maybe by giving Ultron a human face via his creator, that's Whedon's way of not completely ruining Hank's character either (which it would be if he were to turn him into a villain).

So Ultron could be a human face for most of the movie (much like Loki in TA or Khan in STID) who either later assumes a full on robotic appearance towards the end or maybe creates a bunch of Ultron drones who are cannon fodder for the Avengers while the human creator is effectively like the Borg Queen in Star Trek (while the drones are like the Borg).

I'm not saying I like this idea but I just thought that this might be Whedon's thinking to adapt it for a movie without ruining Hank, keeping a human face for Ultron and not stepping on Wright's shoes for Ant-Man.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:23 AM   #143
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What if the reason Whedon is leaving out Pym as Ultron's creator is because he wants the creator to be an outright villain who actually becomes Ultron at the end? For movie purposes, it would give Ultron a human face as audiences might not be able to relate to a pure robot who has no expressions and is completely CGI. Maybe by giving Ultron a human face via his creator, that's Whedon's way of not completely ruining Hank's character either (which it would be if he were to turn him into a villain).

So Ultron could be a human face for most of the movie (much like Loki in TA or Khan in STID) who either later assumes a full on robotic appearance towards the end or maybe creates a bunch of Ultron drones who are cannon fodder for the Avengers while the human creator is effectively like the Borg Queen in Star Trek (while the drones are like the Borg).

I'm not saying I like this idea but I just thought that this might be Whedon's thinking to adapt it for a movie without ruining Hank, keeping a human face for Ultron and not stepping on Wright's shoes for Ant-Man.
Creative. Itīs possible! It will be very interesting to see how they make Ultron look. But didnīt they release a trailer at SDCC when Ironmanīs hemlet became the Ultron head?

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Old 07-24-2013, 01:28 PM   #144
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What if the reason Whedon is leaving out Pym as Ultron's creator is because he wants the creator to be an outright villain who actually becomes Ultron at the end? For movie purposes, it would give Ultron a human face as audiences might not be able to relate to a pure robot who has no expressions and is completely CGI. Maybe by giving Ultron a human face via his creator, that's Whedon's way of not completely ruining Hank's character either (which it would be if he were to turn him into a villain).

So Ultron could be a human face for most of the movie (much like Loki in TA or Khan in STID) who either later assumes a full on robotic appearance towards the end or maybe creates a bunch of Ultron drones who are cannon fodder for the Avengers while the human creator is effectively like the Borg Queen in Star Trek (while the drones are like the Borg).

I'm not saying I like this idea but I just thought that this might be Whedon's thinking to adapt it for a movie without ruining Hank, keeping a human face for Ultron and not stepping on Wright's shoes for Ant-Man.
That would be cool. They create the machine, perhaps with the Avengers, possibly even for the Avengers, and the end up injecting their bran patterns into the A.I. which "kills" the human and then they become the machine and immortal.

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Old 07-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #145
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well if we know Pym is going to be in flashbacks, he's probably older than Tony. Perhaps Stark's father helped develop a sort of AI. U.L.T.R.O.N. Tony's butler dies, and Stark uses this early Draft of Ultron, and uses Jarvis' brain patterns on it, so Tony still has his Butler to talk to (and an AI for his own use when he is older, and working).

Maybe Howard Stark and a mysterious colleague who turns out to be Pym (which we learn in the Ant-Man movie) completed it, but it goes Rogue, and Kills Hank,(also would be revealed in ant-man) also explaining the lack of Pym in Avengers. It maybe was able to be shut down, but it turns up again in the SHIELD show, and in CA2. Maybe SHIELD wants to use it.

Fury and Cap don't trust it, especially if it turns out that it was once used by..HYDRA, or AIM..or..something. Stark does trust it, and in avengers 2, he is able to convince everyone to basically let SHIELD use it, and build a robotic body for it, and it just naturally goes evil. It would make it person for Tony, because in my little scenario, Jarvis would essentially have been a branch, an early aspect of Ultron.

and a cool little twist, that I would like personally, would be that Ultron was evil since he was created, obviously killing Pym, and he's been putting himself in places, helping say, The Mandarin (there was a different AI in the Iron Patriot suit in IM3, if anyone remembers, different interior, and I did think I saw an easter egg of Ultron's face in the first avengers movie)

So not only would it be the Avengers problem and their creation, but it could come out to be that Ultron as an AI manipulated the main Earth Plots of Avengers, sort of revealing that he "created himself" which would be scary.

We then learn more about it's past, it's first creation, and it killing Pym in an ant-man movie.

that's how I would do an Ultron story without Pym in the mix, yet still having him be relative, and keeping Ultron relative to everyone.

I would just HATE HATE to see Ultron created, then defeated in one movie, I think it's a waste and Ultron is a villain that I ALWAYS thought should have a multiple film presence before his climax

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:28 PM   #146
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well if we know Pym is going to be in flashbacks, he's probably older than Tony. Perhaps Stark's father helped develop a sort of AI. U.L.T.R.O.N. Tony's butler dies, and Stark uses this early Draft of Ultron, and uses Jarvis' brain patterns on it, so Tony still has his Butler to talk to (and an AI for his own use when he is older, and working).

Maybe Howard Stark and a mysterious colleague who turns out to be Pym (which we learn in the Ant-Man movie) completed it, but it goes Rogue, and Kills Hank,(also would be revealed in ant-man) also explaining the lack of Pym in Avengers. It maybe was able to be shut down, but it turns up again in the SHIELD show, and in CA2. Maybe SHIELD wants to use it.

Fury and Cap don't trust it, especially if it turns out that it was once used by..HYDRA, or AIM..or..something. Stark does trust it, and in avengers 2, he is able to convince everyone to basically let SHIELD use it, and build a robotic body for it, and it just naturally goes evil. It would make it person for Tony, because in my little scenario, Jarvis would essentially have been a branch, an early aspect of Ultron.

and a cool little twist, that I would like personally, would be that Ultron was evil since he was created, obviously killing Pym, and he's been putting himself in places, helping say, The Mandarin (there was a different AI in the Iron Patriot suit in IM3, if anyone remembers, different interior, and I did think I saw an easter egg of Ultron's face in the first avengers movie)

So not only would it be the Avengers problem and their creation, but it could come out to be that Ultron as an AI manipulated the main Earth Plots of Avengers, sort of revealing that he "created himself" which would be scary.

We then learn more about it's past, it's first creation, and it killing Pym in an ant-man movie.

that's how I would do an Ultron story without Pym in the mix, yet still having him be relative, and keeping Ultron relative to everyone.

I would just HATE HATE to see Ultron created, then defeated in one movie, I think it's a waste and Ultron is a villain that I ALWAYS thought should have a multiple film presence before his climax
He will upload himself somewhere or keep a backup. I donīt really think the third movie can be about Ultron, thatīs Thanos movie.

Now that so many movies ,and there fore chars, are comming together itīs possible to see Ultron again. He could be in Ant-man(too soon but still), GotG or someother movie thatīs comming.

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:33 PM   #147
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

The thing is that Whedon or at least Marvel Studios will probably humanise Ultron, otherwise the main actors are playing against a CGI creation or prop. That makes it too impersonal, especially for a main villain. Maybe he'll have an outer skin like Terminator and only when that's burnt off will it reveal the classic Ultron look.

Of course, that goes against Ultron's very philosophy as he hates humans, but it fits very much into Hollywood's mentality. Even in the Avengers, they had Loki as the human face of their enemies, with the Chitauri just faceless supporting characters.

And in Star Trek First Contact they gave the Borg a human face (in the form of a Borg Queen) for Picard to interact with, otherwise it would just be these anonymous drones.

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:39 PM   #148
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

Didn't Whedon say Hank Pym isn't involved in Ultron's creation? So what's with all these 'found an old Ultron in the basement' theories?

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #149
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

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Originally Posted by Mightyally View Post
He will upload himself somewhere or keep a backup. I donīt really think the third movie can be about Ultron, thatīs Thanos movie.

Now that so many movies ,and there fore chars, are comming together itīs possible to see Ultron again. He could be in Ant-man(too soon but still), GotG or someother movie thatīs comming.
I never said anything about avengers 3 lol

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #150
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Default Re: The Design & Origin of ULTRON

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Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
The thing is that Whedon or at least Marvel Studios will probably humanise Ultron, otherwise the main actors are playing against a CGI creation or prop. That makes it too impersonal, especially for a main villain. Maybe he'll have an outer skin like Terminator and only when that's burnt off will it reveal the classic Ultron look.

Of course, that goes against Ultron's very philosophy as he hates humans, but it fits very much into Hollywood's mentality. Even in the Avengers, they had Loki as the human face of their enemies, with the Chitauri just faceless supporting characters.

And in Star Trek First Contact they gave the Borg a human face (in the form of a Borg Queen) for Picard to interact with, otherwise it would just be these anonymous drones.
No disrespect of course, but I think this is horrible.

To be flat out honest, if they do that, I would put it in the galactus cloud category

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