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Old 07-26-2013, 12:20 PM   #226
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Pym's lack of presence in Avengers represents a big "lolwut" on the part of Joss Whedon, who's *supposed* to have a lot more geek cred than this. You've got a founding front-cover member of The Avengers, who's about to be introduced in his own solo movie just a few months after AoU, and your own AoU film's titular character is known throughout Marvel fandom as the creation of said character --- and yet, you kick him to the curb....? How does that even begin to make sense? Hell, dropping Pym out of the Marvel Universe *altogether* makes more sense than what Joss is doing to Edgar Wright and the character.
Because introducing Pym in Avengers 2 and doing everything else that needs to happen in Avengers 2 would take up too much time and make the story overly complicated, maybe? Making changes when adapting a story for practical reasons doesn't denote a lack of geek cred.

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Old 07-26-2013, 12:44 PM   #227
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Because introducing Pym in Avengers 2 and doing everything else that needs to happen in Avengers 2 would take up too much time and make the story overly complicated, maybe? Making changes when adapting a story for practical reasons doesn't denote a lack of geek cred.
There are ways that it could've been done. Personally, I would've introduced Hank Pym in the second half of the season Agents of SHIELD. Wright could cast the role and basically make it one episode where Pym is featured but maybe not bring up Ultron yet, just a reference if that. Then toward the end of the second season, leading up to AoU, bring Pym back for another two episodes and have his Ultron project featured more prominently.

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Old 07-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #228
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Until we see what Joss and Edgar and Marvel come up with, all this blather doesnt even qualify as whining. We need a word that means whining, only even more pointless. Ill try and come up with something.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:01 PM   #229
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I just thought people should read this and see why Edgar Wright was taking so long to make Ant Man and why he wouldn't be in Avengers 2. Sort of puts things into perspective.
http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/comi...rvels-ant-man/
Quote:
Comic-Con Q&A With Edgar Wright: How Working Title Partner Eric Fellner’s Health Scare Put ‘The World’s End’ Before Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man’

By MIKE FLEMING JR | Thursday July 25, 2013 @ 9:59am PDT
Edgar Wright came to San Diego with cohorts Simon Pegg and Nick Frost to show the Comic-Con crowd The World’s End, the final installment of a trilogy of films that began with Shaun Of The Dead and Hot Fuzz. The trio greeted a raucous crowd that had spent about 12 hours or more camped outside the theater to get an early glimpse at the Working Title-produced comedy that Focus Features bows August 23. Wright took a few minutes to talk with Deadline. DEADLINE: You had the Hall H crowd at the Marvel panel frothing last year when you took the stage and showed cutting-edge footage of Ant-Man, which Marvel hopes will launch a new superhero franchise. The crowd loved seeing the protagonist going from microscopic to full size. But you pushed that movie and came to San Diego with The World’s End. How did that happen?
WRIGHT: I had a chance to do Ant-Man in 2011. Simon was busy with three franchises, if you count Tin-Tin along with Star Trek and Mission: Impossible. We had the story down and it was in the back of my mind that if we didn’t do this film soon it might never happen, and we owed it to the fans. But then something else happened. [Working Title partner] Eric Fellner was diagnosed with cancer. When I found out about that, I’d literally just finished another screenplay for him and it was on delivery that he told me. He has given me permission to tell this story. That changed everything. Eric was our knight in shining armor on Shaun Of The Dead. That film was in turnaround, developed by Film 4 and they’d gone bust. Lots of other British companies had passed on it. Working Title, ironically the biggest British company, came in and saved the day. He wanted us to do another film together; we’d even done the deal for it. When I found out he was ill, one of many emotions I felt was, if we didn’t make this film, and something terrible happened, I would never forgive myself on not making good on my promise to do it. I wanted Eric to see this movie.
Related: Comic-Con: ‘The World’s End’ Isn’t The End For Wright, Pegg & Frost
DEADLINE: What did you do?
WRIGHT: Me and Simon began writing it the very next week; in fact, we wrote it in Eric’s office in Beverly Hills. He was having chemo and said, please take my office, do it there. We wanted to make the film anyway, but it became a very personal thing. The happy news is, we’ve made it, he loves it and he’s got a clean bill of health. He came out of that ordeal and went straight into a tough period where he made Les Miserables and our film. It informed the movie script. The film is about regrets and these guys saying, I’ve got to do this thing. That sentiment became personal. To Marvel’s credit, when I went to see them to tell them to their face I wanted to do Ant-Man but that I wasn’t doing it next, Kevin Feige and Louis D’Esposito said they understood. We’ll see you in a couple years, they said.
DEADLINE: The VFX have probably advanced.
WRIGHT: When people ask what’s the hold-up on Ant-Man, my stock line is I’d rather do it with 2015 visual effects than 2005 visual effects.
DEADLINE: Superheroes rule Comic-Con, and this movie is small by comparison. What does this fervent Comic-Con following mean to you?
WRIGHT: It is important because you almost have to smuggle in personal films under the guise of something else. I love horror, sci-fi and action, or I wouldn’t make these kinds of movies, but those designations are Trojan horses to make these personal comedies. Here’s a movie that’s about the bittersweet feelings of going home, the fact you can’t be an 18-year-old forever, but it’s amplified by the sci-fi paranoia element. It’s a great way to make genre movies that speak to people and there are things that resonate with them that they aren’t expecting. One of the reactions I’ve gotten from people, is, it really got me thinking about my brother, or a friend from school. The sci-fi movies I grew up with, they metaphor was very rich and they used to really mean something. David Cronenberg’s films, or John Carpenter’s films, or the Phil Kaufman and Don Segel versions of Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, or George Romero’s early zombie films.
DEADLINE: You don’t find that in today’s genre films?
WRIGHT: Occasionally you’ll get a District 9, a film that is politically charged, but there is nothing going on beneath the surface with a lot of horror films. They are not about anything. We try to make these genre comedies that work on a deeper level. If you just want to go for the surface gags or the fights with the robots, that’s great, but the hope is that insidiously it makes you think. When you come to Comic-Con, you get that reaction from fans, they really get that and it makes us feel good because we know the movie is not ephemeral. Even with most comedies, you laugh for 90 minutes and you’ve forgotten about it by the time you’ve validated your car to go home.
DEADLINE: You give away some of the humorous aspects of the movie in your trailer, but that subtext is left to be discovered.
WRIGHT: People always talk about trailers and spoilers, but it’s not different than if you look at trailers from the ’60s and ’70s. The trailer for Psycho pretty much tells you there’s going to be a murder in the shower. Hitchcock says that to the camera, so this is nothing new for that necessary evil of marketing. When it’s done well, it gives you enough of a hook, oh, this is going to be about robots and aliens. But it doesn’t really tell you what the film is about and where it’s going.
DEADLINE: At your Comic-Con premiere, you and cohorts Nick Frost and Simon Pegg told the crowd that The World’s End was meant to follow in the spirit of truly British films. Which were touchstones?
WRIGHT: There were films I saw growing up, and people now get to see them because of the Internet. I remember when we first came to America with Shaun Of The Dead, it seemed like the only British programs people here were familiar with were Benny Hill and Are You Being Served? The last big export that meant so much to me was Monty Python, which could not have been more British and that was a big point of pride in the UK, that Monty Python could be so inherently British and travel worldwide. The ’80s and ’90s brought a wave of British movies, where you had to have an American star to increase international appeal. Some of that work but a lot of it didn’t. When we were making Shaun Of The Dead, there was pressure to make things easier on ourselves by casting a big star, maybe as the girlfriend…
DEADLINE: Like Guy Ritchie did by casting Brad Pitt in Snatch.
WRIGHT: Exactly. Sometimes like there it can work, but a lot of times audiences on both sides of the Pond will smell a rat. What was very encouraged when we showed Shaun Of The Dead here and internationally. They not only accepted the movie for what it was; they liked a window into another culture. We pride ourselves that in the three of these films we have always taken locations that don’t get big-screen treatment outside of Mike Leigh and Ken Loach films. We are proud to have made three films that are somewhat uncompromised and that people like and respect them for that.
DEADLINE: You’ve called this the Cornetto trilogy after a brand of ice cream, but the real connective tissue is about outsiders unwilling to conform and resisting the inevitable need to grow up. Will the three of you return with a movie that reflects how all of you have grown up?
WRIGHT: It’s a fair observation. We made this movie feel quite final. Without giving it away, it comes down to one last man, and someone who isn’t necessarily the best person to represent the human race. We like the character who’s the unlikeliest hero. In Shaun, that was a sad sack who worked in an electronics store and in Hot Fuzz, Simon’s character was completely humorless, almost like a robot. We wanted to go further here, taking somebody who seems beyond redemption. A lot of people have that person in their lives, the one you have to cut off, you have to say I can’t be around that person anymore, they’re bad news. And you feel guilty about it. We took that guy, at rock bottom, and made him an intergalactic hero. Keeping with that trilogy idea of one man against conformity. We see both sides of the argument, the idea that maybe the baddies in all these films had the right idea. Like, I’m happy to roll over for Apple products, but sometimes I wake up and think, when did you start running my life, Apple? I don’t like you being in charge of my record collection. But I would never go completely off the grid and when you write a film like this, you have to see both sides of the argument for your characters. The other guys in the group are all grown up with lives and wives and kids and the fact Gary is hanging onto his teens is tragic at the start but then toward the end you wonder if maybe he is like Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda in Easy Rider, going, “**** you all!”
DEADLINE: How does this reflect who the three of you have become since you were young and making Shaun Of The Dead?
WRIGHT: We did want to do something that reflects we’ve got older. When I watch most man child comedies, some are really good, but others show actors in their 40s who act like they’re 26. They have no significant others and can be the loveable stoners forever. It just feels false. There’s no attempt to go any deeper, there is no price being paid, and all significant others are taken out of the story to make it easier. Here, around the laughter, mayhem and special effects, is a character who’s a little more complex. We had a six-year gap between Hot Fuzz and this. I took my advance in 2007 for The World’s End, when it was first announced in the trades. Hopefully we grew during the time that passed.
DEADLINE: You said at the premiere screening this was inspired by your own pub crawl. How far did you get?
WRIGHT: Not far. That’s where the film becomes a fantasy, the idea of me getting through 12 beers. Simon and Nick in particular find it amusing that I’ve become so obsessed by this when in reality I am such a lightweight. What’s really pathetic is, I did it as a teenager and wrote a script about it when I was 21. In between Spaced and Shaun Of The Dead, me and Simon and Nick tried to re-create that pub crawl. And it went even worse. When I was 19 I got through six bars, and the second time it was four, and they had to carry me back to the hotel.
DEADLINE: Was vomiting involved?
WRIGHT: Probably. I don’t even remember. But only after it happened the second time, did it occur to me how pathetic it was that I was trying to re-create my teenage years. It factored in the script.


Last edited by Artistsean; 07-26-2013 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:06 PM   #230
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I hate Ant Man and wasp for that matter. I think their powers are stupid, just plain 1960s silly. But I do love both Hank and Janet. I love their point of views towards being a hero. I think they both bring a welcome difference to this group of superheroes. So it's a huge bummer they're changing the origins of Ultron

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Old 07-27-2013, 09:04 AM   #231
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Because introducing Pym in Avengers 2 and doing everything else that needs to happen in Avengers 2 would take up too much time and make the story overly complicated, maybe?
No, it really wouldn't.

It could also be argued that replacing Pym with Stark (as is the popular rumor going around) would be overly simplistic.

On an unrelated note, Pym can be introduced as a scientist here and not get his powers until Ant-Man. That would establish the character's history before the Ant-Man movie, increase interest in Ant-Man (which Marvel really needs to do), and allows for a far more FAITHFUL adaptation of Ultron's origins.

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Old 07-27-2013, 09:10 AM   #232
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Replacing Pym (probably with Stark) seems like a lame attempt to satisfy the general audience's love affair with RDJ. Not everything in the MCU has to revolve around Iron Man...

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Old 07-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #233
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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No, it really wouldn't.

It could also be argued that replacing Pym with Stark (as is the popular rumor going around) would be overly simplistic.

On an unrelated note, Pym can be introduced as a scientist here and not get his powers until Ant-Man. That would establish the character's history before the Ant-Man movie, increase interest in Ant-Man (which Marvel really needs to do), and allows for a far more FAITHFUL adaptation of Ultron's origins.
Sounds like a very related note. How much time, in minutes, do you think it would take to introduce Pym, sans powers, and establish the character's history in a way that still makes Ultron interesting and cool?

Why do you think Avengers 2 has that much time to spare?

Did you think JARVIS bucking Tony in IM3 was overly simplistic?

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Old 07-27-2013, 11:49 AM   #234
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Sounds like a very related note. How much time, in minutes, do you think it would take to introduce Pym, sans powers, and establish the character's history in a way that still makes Ultron interesting and cool?

Why do you think Avengers 2 has that much time to spare?

Did you think JARVIS bucking Tony in IM3 was overly simplistic?
15-20 minutes. Not every movie has to be a 2 hour origin story (despite what many early comic book movies would have us believe). Look at 2008's Hulk. It was an unofficial sequel but it took care of the whole gamma accident, military-conflict backstory during the credits. Sure Hulk may be a household name and Pym is unknown to anyone who doesn't frequent comic shops but a charismatic actor could win audiences in less than a half hour. Television sitcoms do it all the time with pilots - establishing major concepts and themes in very little time.

JARVIS never sat well with me in the MCU. The concept of an intelligent AI helping to operate the suit largely originated in the first Iron Man movie and was shoe-horned into the comics 5 years ago in an (unfortunate) case of reverse influence (a problem that is growing because of movie popularity). While I found many, many problems with Iron Man 3, JARVIS was amongst the least of them. However, between the Mandarin, Extremis affecting soldiers and Stark, and multiple armors, JARVIS was an unnecessary addition to the plot that was far more of film-maker shoehorn than source material influence.

In short, and this is just an opinion,making Stark responsible for Ultron gives the character way too much influence while JARVIS seems like a crutch that actually casts a poor light on Tony's abilities. Comic book Tony Stark never relied on an AI to operate the Iron Man armor(s) to such an extent. (Extremis -enhanced comic Tony piloted 40+ suits directly via mind link, not having an AI act autonomously).

Again, these are all just opinion statements.

EDIT: And where better to establish a character who's most defining moments were presented in the pages of the Avengers (starting with issue #1 in 1963!) than in the Avengers movie itself. By using each standalone movie to build to a plot-light Avengers film every three years, the quality of individual films decreases (see: Iron Man 2). Each film should really stand alone. This will get me flack, but Hulk does not need to cameo in Iron Man and Hawkeye did not need to be in Thor. Characters crossover all the time in the comics world but the best stories usually focus on the title characters alone (obvious "side-kick" exceptions aside - War Machine, Falcon, etc.). The Avengers films are really the best places for franchise interactions.

EDIT #2: Before someone comments, Tony has had problems with AI in the past but it was NEVER a major plot theme prior to the MCU. I'm not pissed about the creation of JARVIS. That's an addition to the film franchise. Not having Pym involved subtracts from the Avengers legacy.

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:02 PM   #235
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EDIT #2: Before someone comments, Tony has had problems with AI in the past but it was NEVER a major plot theme prior to the MCU. I'm not pissed about the creation of JARVIS. That's an addition to the film franchise. Not having Pym involved subtracts from the Avengers legacy.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:14 PM   #236
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No, it really wouldn't.
Please explain to be how introducing a brand new character who's character arc is directly died to the main threat of the film wouldn't make a movie that already has six main characters (and is also introducing two more) more complicated.

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It could also be argued that replacing Pym with Stark (as is the popular rumor going around) would be overly simplistic.
How would it be overly simplistic?

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:24 PM   #237
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"We're basically taking the things from the comics for the movies that we need and can use. A lot of stuff has to fall by the wayside." -- Joss Whedon

Not sure why Pym "can't be used" or why he has to "fall by the wayside"

Why can't the film progress as such:
- Reintroduction. Avengers investigate Henry Pym's AI, codename "Ultron" to see if it can help protect Earth. Hank and Stark decide to build it a physical body. [20 minutes]
- Masters (of Evil) assemble (possibly including several of the following Amora/Skurge, Zemo/Zola/Crossbones, Mandarin, Abomination/Leader, Pietro/Wanda) [20 minutes]
- Masters attack, resulting in stalemate but ending with apprehension of Ultron. [30 minutes]
- Masters re-appropriate Ultron but it turns on them, killing their leader and taking over the remaining Masters. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch join/warn the Avengers. [20 minutes]
- Avengers vs. Ultron for the remainder of the film. [50 minutes]

2 hr. 20 minutes

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:25 PM   #238
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Please explain to be how introducing a brand new character who's character arc is directly died to the main threat of the film wouldn't make a movie that already has six main characters (and is also introducing two more) more complicated.
This is the Avengers. There's supposed to be multiple team members. In the comics, there has almost always been a MINIMUM of 7 members on the team, sometimes as many as 12. The average has been 7-9. This should not be looked at as a negative. The more, the better. Avengers did a great job balancing six roles but now all the characters have been firmly established. There's plenty of time for newcomers to get a little of spotlight. Who says Pym has to be a main character anyway? As a scientist (or even a hero), Pym can play a significant role without being on posters.


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How would it be overly simplistic?
Because it's a convenient cop-out based upon a minor plot point introduced into the comics (and movie) universes 5 years ago. Up until Iron Man 3, JARVIS has given no indication of becoming the evil entity known as Ultron - just some (minor) indications of capabilities. But, we already have an AI so why go to the work of introducing a new character? That would be too hard, right? Like I said, it may make sense but it reeks of laziness.

There is no indication that JARVIS was destined to be Ultron prior to the end of Iron Man 3 (which wasn't remotely faithful to the source material in ANY regard either).

EDIT: Maybe this is becoming too personal for me. I HATED Iron Man 3, which was a complete surprise because I liked/loved EVERY film from phase one. I'd much prefer to forget IM 3 ever happened and move on but having Stark create Ultron based upon the suit control capabilities of JARVIS from IM3 makes Avengers 2 less a unique film of its own right and more of an unofficial sequel to Iron Man 3. "Iron Man 3.5" or "Iron Man and Friends" if you will. Age of Ultron needs to stand on its own merits. Focus more on the Avengers as a whole than one single member of the team (who already had 3.5 movies to shine).

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #239
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"We're basically taking the things from the comics for the movies that we need and can use. A lot of stuff has to fall by the wayside." -- Joss Whedon

Not sure why Pym "can't be used" or why he has to "fall by the wayside"

Why can't the film progress as such:
- Reintroduction. Avengers investigate Henry Pym's AI, codename "Ultron" to see if it can help protect Earth. Hank and Stark decide to build it a physical body. [20 minutes]
- Masters (of Evil) assemble (possibly including several of the following Amora/Skurge, Zemo/Zola/Crossbones, Mandarin, Abomination/Leader, Pietro/Wanda) [20 minutes]
- Masters attack, resulting in stalemate but ending with apprehension of Ultron. [30 minutes]
- Masters re-appropriate Ultron but it turns on them, killing their leader and taking over the remaining Masters. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch join/warn the Avengers. [20 minutes]
- Avengers vs. Ultron for the remainder of the film. [50 minutes]

2 hr. 20 minutes
Exactly. It wouldn't be that hard. Avengers II should be action packed but there's no reason it can't have it's own legitimate story ala something like the example above. Although, including the Masters of Evil might be a bit much. Ultron's a big enough threat to warrant the full two hours.

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:37 PM   #240
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Exactly. It wouldn't be that hard. Avengers II should be action packed but there's no reason it can't have it's own legitimate story ala something like the example above. Although, including the Masters of Evil might be a bit much. Ultron's a big enough threat to warrant the full two hours.
at this point I'm just kind of expecting it (with Grillo's appearance) but yeah, without them its even more feasible.

without SHIELD, Loki, Selvig, and The Avengers bickering, the movie will have plenty of room and time to focus on plenty of new characters.

Instead of Loki: Ultron
Instead of Chitauri/Other: Masters of Evil
Instead of SHIELD/Hellicarrier: Maximoffs/Wundagore
Instead of Selvig: Henry Pym
etc.

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:44 PM   #241
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Tey already have Ultron and Magneto's twins, i don't think masters of evil should be added to the mix

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:50 PM   #242
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Tey already have Ultron and Magneto's twins, i don't think masters of evil should be added to the mix
Listen, I am purely basing this off of the confirmation of Frank Grillo's involvement in AoU (http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00055123.html)

and making a speculative point based solely off of that news. If you can explain to me some other reason he'd be in this movie I'm all ears. But it was hardly my sole or main point in a thread titled, "Hank Pym?"

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:59 PM   #243
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Listen, I am purely basing this off of the confirmation of Frank Grillo's involvement in AoU (http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00055123.html)

and making a speculative point based solely off of that news. If you can explain to me some other reason he'd be in this movie I'm all ears. But it was hardly my sole or main point in a thread titled, "Hank Pym?"
Not to keep getting this off-topic, but Crossbones is in no way deserving of being in the "Masters of Evil". Not saying he won't be but any one of the Avengers could take Crossbones without breaking a sweat. Again, not saying he won't be in the movie or in the MOE but that he doesn't deserve to be.

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Old 07-27-2013, 01:26 PM   #244
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Hey if you REALLY need Pym in the movie I say make a Marvel One Shot for the Avengers 2 DVD.

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Old 07-27-2013, 01:27 PM   #245
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Tey already have Ultron and Magneto's twins, i don't think masters of evil should be added to the mix
Quicksilver and Witch will be villains first.

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Old 07-27-2013, 01:33 PM   #246
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

let's just wait till we see the damn ant-man movie lol. Whatever words are dropped. Age of Ultron is an Origin story...with no pym...yet months later, we get an ant-man movie, which according to fiege, heavily features Pym.

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Old 07-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #247
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Quicksilver and Witch will be villains first.
Even more reasons not to have the masters of evil too.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #248
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Actually Pym could have been a scientist and a hero with an undisclosed identity. No one even would know ant man existed until he saved the day.

Oh well I want to see Joss' spin upon this.

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:15 PM   #249
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This is the Avengers. There's supposed to be multiple team members. In the comics, there has almost always been a MINIMUM of 7 members on the team, sometimes as many as 12. The average has been 7-9. This should not be looked at as a negative. The more, the better. Avengers did a great job balancing six roles but now all the characters have been firmly established. There's plenty of time for newcomers to get a little of spotlight. Who says Pym has to be a main character anyway? As a scientist (or even a hero), Pym can play a significant role without being on posters.
1: You didn't really answer my question. How will introducing Hank Pym not make the story more complicated?

Also, how would he not be a main character if his character arc is tied directly into the main conflict of the film?

2: It doesn't matter how many members the comics average. Comics are comics. They can do things movies can't. Movies are limited in the amount of time they have to tell a story in a way comics aren't.

3: Time to develop the characters isn't the only way that introducing Pym makes the story more complicated. This is a completely new character who has to be introduced, who's character arc has to built up and followed through with, and who Whedon would have to get the audience to care about, and it would be more important to get the audience to care about him than any other character because his character and his character arc would be the central conflict of the film. Ultron and his hate-on with The Avengers would just be way more effective if he's created by a character we're already familiar with.


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Because it's a convenient cop-out based upon a minor plot point introduced into the comics (and movie) universes 5 years ago. Up until Iron Man 3, JARVIS has given no indication of becoming the evil entity known as Ultron - just some (minor) indications of capabilities. But, we already have an AI so why go to the work of introducing a new character? That would be too hard, right? Like I said, it may make sense but it reeks of laziness.

There is no indication that JARVIS was destined to be Ultron prior to the end of Iron Man 3 (which wasn't remotely faithful to the source material in ANY regard either).
Who says JARVIS will turn into Ultron? Where is it written that if Tony's is the one to create Ultron in the MCU, that means it has to be JARVIS that turns into Ultron?

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:41 PM   #250
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1: You didn't really answer my question. How will introducing Hank Pym not make the story more complicated?

Also, how would he not be a main character if his character arc is tied directly into the main conflict of the film?

2: It doesn't matter how many members the comics average. Comics are comics. They can do things movies can't. Movies are limited in the amount of time they have to tell a story in a way comics aren't.

3: Time to develop the characters isn't the only way that introducing Pym makes the story more complicated. This is a completely new character who has to be introduced, who's character arc has to built up and followed through with, and who Whedon would have to get the audience to care about, and it would be more important to get the audience to care about him than any other character because his character and his character arc would be the central conflict of the film. Ultron and his hate-on with The Avengers would just be way more effective if he's created by a character we're already familiar with.
Are we really having this discussion? How does every other movie produced introduce characters that previously unfamiliar to the audience in two hours and tell a story? It's not like there are no other Marvel movies introducing multiple new characters. How will Guardians of the Galaxy have enough time to explore all 5 heroes!? This is an extremely flawed argument. Of course Pym would complicate the plot. ANY NEW CHARACTER WILL. By this argument, Falcon shouldn't be in Captain America, War Machine should never have been in Iron Man, and the Warriors 3 should never have been in Thor. Balance will always be a challenge, regardless of the number of characters. Are you implying that Hank Pym is the one extra character that pushes the cast over the line and complicates the movie? Ridiculous.

And the JARVIS comments were in regard to the discussions held around this board...

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