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Old 07-23-2013, 01:01 AM   #126
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My question is if they decide to destroy the concept having yet ANOTHER iron man related fluke of idiocy, what's the point of ant-man??? I mean everyone defending whedon saying pym is unimportant seem to forget that if pym is unimportant Lang is completely irrelevant and has next to no fan base. Just cancel that movie and make something else. No one likes that lameass Lang.

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Old 07-23-2013, 01:05 AM   #127
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

Pretty much agreed. There isn't much left that is compelling about Pym, and Lang is just plain boring.

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Old 07-23-2013, 01:21 AM   #128
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My question is if they decide to destroy the concept having yet ANOTHER iron man related fluke of idiocy, what's the point of ant-man??? I mean everyone defending whedon saying pym is unimportant seem to forget that if pym is unimportant Lang is completely irrelevant and has next to no fan base. Just cancel that movie and make something else. No one likes that lameass Lang.
I thought you gave up on Marvel.

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Old 07-23-2013, 01:35 AM   #129
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I thought you gave up on Marvel.
Uh-----NO. I'm close to dumping the MCU.
I gave up on Iron man. For that matter, I reserve the right to dismiss whatever they do that is not to my liking and complain and rant about the same as well. I still like the other things they do.

The fact I love MARVEL's stories and characters so much also is the reason changes to them infuriate me (and others). Goes hand in hand I guess.

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Old 07-23-2013, 02:32 AM   #130
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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1) Edgar Wright and Whedon could both cast or agree on who will be Ant Man. They probably already discuss these things.

2) All the madness in Avengers to will be connected to Ultron so why not give Ultron a proper origin story.

3) This a good question. I think Hank Pym's story arc is stronger without being merged with Tony Stark but this is mostly a matter of execution.

4) I could see if Hank Pym wasn't going to be involved in phase 3 but there's an Ant Man movie right around the corner. So why not make Hank Pym central to Ultron, it will only help the Ant Man franchise and satisfy the fans.
1) Joss made it clear that he's mostly hands off. His goal seems to be to not get in the way of anyone else's creative process. What if Joss and Edgar don't agree, who gets the final say? Who should back down?

2) Ultron will have a proper story, more proper if he's made by a character that does not have to be introduced and made important. If you introduce a brand new character you not only have to make him important, but narratively, the story only makes sense when this brand new powerless character is a major part of the solution.

3) I really don't know why people feel that way. I understand the desire to keep things they way they are in comics, but Ultron is a lot more like Tony than Hank.

4) Will it help the Ant-Man franchise? If Hank Pym isn't central there, then bringing a big epic robot into the limelight probably isn't going to help them focus on Scott Lang and his daughter or whatever. Plus, having to introduce a brand new character in a way that's important, but doesn't get in the way of another film is a pretty sizeable challenge.

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Old 07-23-2013, 02:35 AM   #131
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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My question is if they decide to destroy the concept having yet ANOTHER iron man related fluke of idiocy, what's the point of ant-man??? I mean everyone defending whedon saying pym is unimportant seem to forget that if pym is unimportant Lang is completely irrelevant and has next to no fan base. Just cancel that movie and make something else. No one likes that lameass Lang.
Dang you salty. I like Lang. Lang is not important because of Pym, Lang is important because of his own personal story. He's a legacy character not a sidekick. He doesn't even need Pym to have been Ant-man first, he just needs the tech from a sciencey guy. Lang can be more important than Pym very easily, just as Barry Allen is more important than Jay Garrick or Thor is more important than Odin.

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Old 07-23-2013, 03:36 AM   #132
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

We don't know what Edgar plans to do with Pym and Lang or how they will be portrayed so calling for Ant-Man to be cancelled might be jumping the gun a little.

No comic book movies are exactly like the comic counterparts and Edgar has spoke of changing some things.

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Old 07-23-2013, 08:45 AM   #133
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Uh-----NO. I'm close to dumping the MCU.
I gave up on Iron man. For that matter, I reserve the right to dismiss whatever they do that is not to my liking and complain and rant about the same as well. I still like the other things they do.

The fact I love MARVEL's stories and characters so much also is the reason changes to them infuriate me (and others). Goes hand in hand I guess.
IMHO this is why alot of haggling goes on in this forum.

These characters change every decade or so and how I remember them might not be how they are today.

2 good examples of this would be Rogue and Tony Stark/Iron Man. I have real issues with Downeys Iron Man, yet most feel he nails the character. He barely resembles the Stark I remember.

The other is Rogue. I remember when everyone used to go on and on... and on, about how much Anna Paquin sucked as Rogue because Rogue is supposed to be a "sexy gorgeous southern belle" which isnt how I remembered the character at all.

I cant even go into the Spiderman forums. Just cant.

Actually thinking about it, another good example is Superman. The younger guys seem to really like MoS, while old timers like myself feel that it barely resembles a Superman film.

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Old 07-23-2013, 08:50 AM   #134
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IMHO this is why alot of haggling goes on in this forum.

These characters change every decade or so and how I remember them might not be how they are today.

2 good examples of this would be Rogue and Tony Stark/Iron Man. I have real issues with Downeys Iron Man, yet most feel he nails the character. He barely resembles the Stark I remember.

The other is Rogue. I remember when everyone used to go on and on... and on, about how much Anna Paquin sucked as Rogue because Rogue is supposed to be a "sexy gorgeous southern belle" which isnt how I remembered the character at all.

I cant even go into the Spiderman forums. Just cant.

Actually thinking about it, another good example is Superman. The younger guys seem to really like MoS, while old timers like myself feel that it barely resembles a Superman film.
Totally agree on all accounts.

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Old 07-23-2013, 08:57 AM   #135
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We don't know what Edgar plans to do with Pym and Lang or how they will be portrayed so calling for Ant-Man to be cancelled might be jumping the gun a little.

No comic book movies are exactly like the comic counterparts and Edgar has spoke of changing some things.
Well I was just speaking personally. If it Lang and not Pym....ZERO interest whatsoever. It could be academy award nominated for all I care but any Lang is a deal breaker for me. And his daughter......God help me they're boring. That's why FF needs a new leader.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:32 AM   #136
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Well I was just speaking personally. If it Lang and not Pym....ZERO interest whatsoever. It could be academy award nominated for all I care but any Lang is a deal breaker for me. And his daughter......God help me they're boring. That's why FF needs a new leader.
I don't remember a time when you were happy with the MCU.

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Old 07-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #137
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I don't remember a time when you were happy with the MCU.
Well as you can tell by the number of my posts I don't post too often ( i have a life )and I ADORED phase 1 in its entirety.

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Old 07-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #138
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Comic book movies are probably the only place where people care that much about characters getting combined into one character for an adaptation. The fact is, sometimes that's absolutely necessary to make a film adaptation work because the constraints of film are different from the constraints of the source material's medium. Making Stark Ultron's creator is likely the best possible choice for making a good movie. Including Hank Pym would have likely made the plot too complicated or made the film run too long.

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Old 07-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #139
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^Indeed.

Now I understand where the gripers are coming from. If Tony Stark had suddenly discovered Vibranium and became the ruler of Wakanda, I would be totally peeved and generally stop watching Marvel movies, even if it made perfect sense with the story.

Edit: But on second thought, if I knew a Black Panther movie (that might focus on Shuri) was coming out the next year, I might wait and see... but I'd be soooooo skeptical.

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Old 07-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #140
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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^Indeed.

Now I understand where the gripers are coming from. If Tony Stark had suddenly discovered Vibranium and became the ruler of Wakanda, I would be totally peeved and generally stop watching Marvel movies, even if it made perfect sense with the story.
Are you kidding, man?! With Robert Downey Jr., that would be an awesome movie! I'd pay to see that thrice over.

Add in Mel Gibson as a T'Chaka/Howard Stark gestalt entity and you'd have the greatest movie of all time. Now, before you ask, no, Mel would not be in blackface, that's just wrong. He'd dress up like the Sioux chief from the village people.

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Old 07-23-2013, 06:00 PM   #141
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Well I was just speaking personally. If it Lang and not Pym....ZERO interest whatsoever. It could be academy award nominated for all I care but any Lang is a deal breaker for me. And his daughter......God help me they're boring. That's why FF needs a new leader.
I think Lang appeals to a certain demographic...one that I'm not a part of. I mean, his origin story's movie-worthy, but it's not like we have a shortage of films where the male protagonist has to do whatever it takes to save the female plot device.

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Old 07-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #142
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I think Lang appeals to a certain demographic...one that I'm not a part of. I mean, his origin story's movie-worthy, but it's not like we have a shortage of films where the male protagonist has to do whatever it takes to save the female plot device.
i'm part of that demographic. and i've been waiting for what feels like forever for Scott to be onscreen. and it's not like we have a shortage of films where a male superhero does whatever it takes to save the plot device. generally it's something even more cliche like saving the world. the difference with Scott is that he's not a superhero; just a desperate ex-con with enough skill to break into Henry Pym's lab. he's not something Marvel has put out yet. his powerset isn't something we've seen used offensively. i'm not seeing a problem, here. and we don't even know that it will be Lang. could just be Pym doing something cliche like saving someone.

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Old 07-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #143
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My question is if they decide to destroy the concept having yet ANOTHER iron man related fluke of idiocy, what's the point of ant-man??? I mean everyone defending whedon saying pym is unimportant seem to forget that if pym is unimportant Lang is completely irrelevant and has next to no fan base. Just cancel that movie and make something else. No one likes that lameass Lang.
Edgar Wright likes him.

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Old 07-23-2013, 07:58 PM   #144
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^ yup...also bet my ass that Ultron turns up in some shape or form in that movie...

despite what ways said, Pym is in the ant-man movie, which comes out a few months after age of ultron....the jumping to conclusions and assumptions is crazy...the two characters will more than likely be linked

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Old 07-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #145
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Edgar Wright said recently that Pym would be in the Ant Man movie. Feige likely doesn't want to undercut Wright by putting Pym in AOU first. Also, Stark creating Ultron makes sense given where his character was at the end of IM 3.

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Old 07-24-2013, 05:04 AM   #146
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i'm part of that demographic. and i've been waiting for what feels like forever for Scott to be onscreen. and it's not like we have a shortage of films where a male superhero does whatever it takes to save the plot device. generally it's something even more cliche like saving the world. the difference with Scott is that he's not a superhero; just a desperate ex-con with enough skill to break into Henry Pym's lab. he's not something Marvel has put out yet. his powerset isn't something we've seen used offensively. i'm not seeing a problem, here. and we don't even know that it will be Lang. could just be Pym doing something cliche like saving someone.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to a Scott Lang film and I don't think he's a bad character. I just can't bring myself to like or take interest in him or his whiny kid. Especially his whiny kid. Tbh, I'm not much of a fan of Hank, either, but he's far more entertaining to me.

Oh, and I'd argue that HULK was quite different (or, at least the character was).

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Old 07-24-2013, 07:04 AM   #147
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People should read this page to get a 'wider' perspective: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ositeCharacter

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:07 AM   #148
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Edgar Wright said recently that Pym would be in the Ant Man movie. Feige likely doesn't want to undercut Wright by putting Pym in AOU first. Also, Stark creating Ultron makes sense given where his character was at the end of IM 3.
Agreed.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:43 AM   #149
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Edgar Wright said recently that Pym would be in the Ant Man movie. Feige likely doesn't want to undercut Wright by putting Pym in AOU first. Also, Stark creating Ultron makes sense given where his character was at the end of IM 3.
Exactly. There has been a formula to these movies that has worked 100%. Introduce the characters, and then bring them together. Hulk was somewhat "reintroduced" in Avengers, but he had the solo films first, and their intention was that Norton would reprise the roll, they couldn't come to terms on a contract, and Norton unlike all the other actors only signed a one film deal.

But you're absolutely right, they want the individual directors to introduce the characters, and then have other writers/directors take it from there, but for Whedon to introduce Pym would undercut Wright's movie, and he might have to revise a lot. This is especially a concern because they're being released in the same year.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:07 AM   #150
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I thought Wright's movie was about Scott Lang. What brought about the change? Was it indeed a decision of creative heft made by Edgar or a studio mandate by Kevin?

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