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Old 07-21-2013, 07:40 PM   #326
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

Haha, if this Ant-Man/Ultron thing bugs you, really don't care to hear my thoughts on you know who's liberties taken with the last Bat-franchise.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:43 PM   #327
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Haha, if this Ant-Man/Ultron thing bugs you, really don't care to hear my thoughts on you know who's liberties taken with the last Bat-franchise.
Except, Nolan kept the essence of the characters. It's not like he decided to have Joker break the Bat, which is pretty much what seems to be going on here. They are taking away a character's biggest and most defining moment and giving it to someone else.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:45 PM   #328
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No Hank Pym = Generic evil robot?
No, but to be honest, Ultron's hatred towards his "father"...."father" was one of the coolest aspects of the character in my opinion. I loved that relationship, and though it doesn't define the character, when I think of Ultron, I think of HATE...hate for biological life, and his specific creator...so without it, that aspect of something is missing. Also, if Ultron is to be completely created in A2, then yes, it can certainly be a generic evil robot, I always imagined Ultron being a character that is built up. Love what they are doing with Thanos, but if someone was to tell me years ago, for say...some avengers movie, that the villain is going to be built up in a film or two prior, I would say, it's gotta be Ultron, otherwise yes, you get that generic evil robot. I don't want to see the physical evolution only, I want to see an evolution of an ai, that gains sentience, that has experiences that change his perception that lead to the ultimate hatred of biological life. that type of arc, I can't see it being started and completed in avengers 2. Its an origin story sure, but I still think we will get drops of him in the Shield show, and in Cap 2. Not to mention, it was said that at the end of Cap 2, according to Fiege, that the universe changes...WHAT if, Ultron as an AI was time traveling? or something lol.

OH! What if he has the time gem? It would tie in the gems, and we know some characters come from the future in gotg...and Fiege said Thanos is in his "plane"...essentially, a different universe..I think in Cap 2, it will be revealed he somehow in an ai form manipulated the events of ironman 3 as well.

through the end of cap 2, and early into AoE, things happen that allow Ultron to get a body and take over...thus making them responsible for Ultron.

My main thing is, I think Ultron, to do him right, needs to be built/spread out over atleast 2 films, otherwise he will feel like another killer robot. I don't want a villainous robot, I want a character. With a character arc. If that makes sense

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:48 PM   #329
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I sort of think that Ultron might not only be a sort of Phase 2 weapon thing, but either 1) SHIELD trying to recreate the Destroyer armor and/or make a quasi-sentient android entity to help run ops or 2) part of SHIELD's LMD program, maybe the genesis of said program.

They might also draw from some of Avengers:EMH and have some form or quantities of Ultron robots guarding facilities where superpowered villains are being held.

There are vast paths A:AoU and Whedon can take with Ultron and not be constrained by the origins told in the comics. I'm fine with that.

Extra special unicorn bonus points if Joss fits Hank Pym in the movie, even if he never appears onscreen.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:48 PM   #330
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

http://whatculture.com/film/5-questi...f-ultron.php/6

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So how will the comics factor into this? Whedon is an admitted fanboy, he added in Thanos to The Avengers just because he’s such a fan of Jim Starlin’s work on The Avengers comics. Will Hank Pym still create Ultron, or will he be created by another character? And how will the comics influence the depiction? In Ultron’s first appearance, he masqueraded as the Crimson Cowl and gathered together a group of villains as the Masters of Evil. His next appearance also introduced the Vision and perhaps the best story featuring him was Ultron Unlimited from the 90s, which contained the iconic scene you see above.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:51 PM   #331
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

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No, but to be honest, Ultron's hatred towards his "father"...."father" was one of the coolest aspects of the character in my opinion. I loved that relationship
Don't worry, they'll probably still have all the juicy dramatic bits. They'll just belong to Stark.


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Old 07-21-2013, 07:51 PM   #332
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Except, Nolan kept the essence of the characters. It's not like he decided to have Joker break the Bat, which is pretty much what seems to be going on here. They are taking away a character's biggest and most defining moment and giving it to someone else.
Wow, that's sad. That's Ant-Man's most defining moment? Blame the writers for not giving him more defining moments.

Two-Face's most defining moment is arguably when acid was thrown on his face by some district attorney hired by Falcone in the comics. He gets half his face burned off due to a bomb in a warehouse in TDK courtesy of the Joker. The Joker corrupted Dent in TDK. IMO this is closer to Ultron/Ant-Man thing happening now. I'm pretty sure they will still be able to keep the essence of Ultron like the TDK kept the essence of Dent.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:52 PM   #333
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Except, Nolan kept the essence of the characters. It's not like he decided to have Joker break the Bat, which is pretty much what seems to be going on here. They are taking away a character's biggest and most defining moment and giving it to someone else.
However, the essence of MCU's Hank Pym may be completely different from Marvel comics' Hank Pym. That's ultimately what Whedon's comments point to. The Pym we see in Wright's Ant-Man will likely be driven by other factors.

There could be some very interesting things that Whedon could do with Ultron that doesn't include his very obvious daddy issues from the comics. Ultron might see SHIELD, and then The Avengers as a threat to the continued existence of mankind and decide to do whatever it takes to eradicate them.

or it might decide that the existence of the human race is a mistake and eradicate them....

I don't know. The world is wide open for them to play with Ultron.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:57 PM   #334
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first off, i have to ask how familiar you are with these characters. Because there's a funny little situation on the internet where people who tend to be more "ok" with changes in characters... actually know less about them, and/or not really a fan of them. Thus why it's typically easier for them to be ok with changes.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




Pics from my desktop. And those include the only adventures of Hank Pym as Ant-Man and his origin and transformation into Giant-Man, the introduction of Wasp, their first adventures in the Avengers, the team roster change that brought in SW and QS in issue 16, the first appearance of Ultron, his creation of Vision, the reveal that Hank Pym is the one who created him, and ever story after that. And there's far more where those came from. So don't size me on my knowledge of Hank, Janet, Ultron, and the Maximoffs. Or anything else involving Marvel comics for that matter.

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second. you have to understand that fans love seeing something ripped off the page and brought to live action in a movie. it's the closest a property can really come to being reality. So you shouldn't get an attitude when people want to see the stories and characters they love translated into a film
So where is my attitude in that post? LOL. Was it me saying "I don't understand"? Or where I said how I perceive change?

They're still seeing something ripped from the pages and brought to life, just not in the way they expect or are accustomed to.

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third. as ive stated before, change for the sake of change isn't a good thing. the upsetting part is why not release Antman before avengers? so antman feels natural? instead, they're releasing it after and it sorta feels like a cheap ploy just to let wright tell the story he wants to tell. Sure, the movie will be alot of fun, but it might also not be familiar to the fans at all... which is always a sad thing.
It's not change for the sake of change. Joss is doing what is best for his script. He's not saying "**** you" to the fans just because he can. It doesn't make sense to have Hank Pym build Ultron in the MCU, nor for Joss's film, for reasons I've mentioned several times already.

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Old 07-21-2013, 07:59 PM   #335
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here me out for a second guys....this may sound obscure, but I have a theory. Listen to this, what if Pym DID create Ultron, but didn't?

Listen....we would assume the infinity gems soon become relevant. What if someone Ultron managed to get the time gem after he was INITIALLY created by Pym?

DONT stop reading..cause it gets juicy lol. So we know in gotg, some characters are from the future, and Fiege himself said Thanos exists on another plane of existance...he also said Cap 2 is a lead in to Avengers: Age of Ultron...so..

what if in Cap 2, this ai is there in the backround, Ultron managed to get the time gem, and at the end of Cap 2, he COMPLETELY rewrites history in his image, destroys Pym, his creator, and essentially alters his creation to his benefits? (by manipulating the events of iron man 3) I mean, Chris Evans obviously hasn't seen the avengers 2 script, neither has scarlet...however they both sort of laughed at age of ultron..and chris evans looked at her and said who's ultron? hinting that perhaps he's in the movie...and this..

BIG thing here...Fiege said at the end of Cap 2, "there will be a whole new universe..."...

a whole new universe....soo...what the hell is going on with phase 2 of the MCU REALLY? cause it's NOT entirely what Joss is saying

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:00 PM   #336
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




Pics from my desktop. And those include the only adventures of Hank Pym as Ant-Man and his origin and transformation into Giant-Man, the introduction of Wasp, their first adventures in the Avengers, the team roster change that brought in SW and QS in issue 16, the first appearance of Ultron, his creation of Vision, the reveal that Hank Pym is the one who created him, and ever story after that. And there's far more where those came from. So don't size me on my knowledge of Hank, Janet, Ultron, and the Maximoffs. Or anything else involving Marvel comics for that matter.


So where is my attitude in that post? LOL. Was it me saying "I don't understand"? Or where I said how I perceive change?

They're still seeing something ripped from the pages and brought to life, just not in the way they expect or are accustomed to.


It's not change for the sake of change. Joss is doing what is best for his script. He's not saying **** you to the fans just because he can. I doesn't make sense to have Hank Pym build Ultron in the MCU nor for Joss's film, for reasons I've mentioned several times already.
say friend....would you do the courtesy of sending me all those files ??

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:01 PM   #337
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It's not change for the sake of change. Joss is doing what is best for his script. He's not saying "**** you" to the fans just because he can. It doesn't make sense to have Hank Pym build Ultron in the MCU, nor for Joss's film, for reasons I've mentioned several times already.
This.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:01 PM   #338
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Wow, that's sad. That's Ant-Man's most defining moment? Blame the writers for not giving him more defining moments.
Well, I guess the other big thing is he beats his wife...

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Two-Face's most defining moment is arguably when acid was thrown on his face by some district attorney hired by Falcone in the comics. He gets half his face burned off due to a bomb in a warehouse in TDK courtesy of the Joker. The Joker corrupted Dent in TDK. IMO this is closer to Ultron/Ant-Man thing happening now. I'm pretty sure they will still be able to keep the essence of Ultron like the TDK kept the essence of Dent.
For me, at least, Two Face having acid thrown into his face isn't all that important to the character. What is important is Dent's fall from grace and Nolan nailed that. By contrast I feel Pym creating Ultron is important for both characters.

Not saying Nolan got all the characters right, just look at Talia, but I feel for the most part he stayed true to the characters. IMO, the biggest "character" Nolan failed to capture was the city of Gotham itself.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:03 PM   #339
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

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Except, Nolan kept the essence of the characters. It's not like he decided to have Joker break the Bat, which is pretty much what seems to be going on here. They are taking away a character's biggest and most defining moment and giving it to someone else.
I think its more like having the Joker kill Bruce's parents instead of Joe Chill. I hope they never do something like that..... Wait.....

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:05 PM   #340
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Well, I guess the other big thing is he beat his wife...



For me, at least, Two Face having acid thrown into his face isn't all that important to the character. What is important is Dent's fall from grace and Nolan nailed that. By contrast I feel Pym creating Ultron is important for both characters.

Not saying Nolan got all the characters right, just look at Talia, but I feel for the most part he stayed true to the characters. IMO, the biggest "character" Nolan failed to capture was the city of Gotham itself.
I agree with that but some batman fans hate his movies because they don't think he did. That is the same thing that is happening here. Should Nolan have changed his entire trilogy to please them? Marvel have probably planned this for years, they shouldn't change their plans because some fans are upset.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:10 PM   #341
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I agree with that but some batman fans hate his movies because they don't think he did. That is the same thing that is happening here. Should Nolan have changed his entire trilogy to please them? Marvel have probably planned this for years, they shouldn't change their plans because some fans are upset.
I'm not saying they should change them, it's way too late for that. But that doesn't mean I can't be angry and complain about it.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:11 PM   #342
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Except, Nolan kept the essence of the characters.
TDKR Bane says hello.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:12 PM   #343
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

Fiege said, regarding captain america...


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" It does involve the most amount of Avengers of any of the films in Phase 2, and it has sort of a, you know, there's a very big shift in the universe at the end of this movie."
shift in the universe at the end of the movie, the movie is the biggest lead in to "Age of Ultron"....No pym... hmmmm, what's going on guys?

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:13 PM   #344
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




Pics from my desktop. And those include the only adventures of Hank Pym as Ant-Man and his origin and transformation into Giant-Man, the introduction of Wasp, their first adventures in the Avengers, the team roster change that brought in SW and QS in issue 16, the first appearance of Ultron, his creation of Vision, the reveal that Hank Pym is the one who created him, and ever story after that. And there's far more where those came from. So don't size me on my knowledge of Hank, Janet, Ultron, and the Maximoffs. Or anything else involving Marvel comics for that matter.


So where is my attitude in that post? LOL. Was it me saying "I don't understand"? Or where I said how I perceive change?

They're still seeing something ripped from the pages and brought to life, just not in the way they expect or are accustomed to.


It's not change for the sake of change. Joss is doing what is best for his script. He's not saying "**** you" to the fans just because he can. It doesn't make sense to have Hank Pym build Ultron in the MCU, nor for Joss's film, for reasons I've mentioned several times already.

n00b


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Old 07-21-2013, 08:16 PM   #345
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TDKR Bane says hello.
I felt what they did with him was fine. Sure, he didn't have Venom but he had some painkillers that were used in a very reminiscent way.

Even more importantly they captured that Bane is both a physical and an intellectual threat to Batman.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:16 PM   #346
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n00b

Ikr. Not nearly enough.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:18 PM   #347
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Why can't anyone just wait and see? I've never understood that around these parts.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #348
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Because it's fun to ***** and speculate.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #349
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(ps, anyone know anything that can help a strained neck/trap muscle besides ice and ibuprofen? I fudged it up earlier today, and have been drinkin to dull the pain -_-)
Buy some muscle spray or gel, normally works wonders for me.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:27 PM   #350
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yessir
(ps, anyone know anything that can help a strained neck/trap muscle besides ice and ibuprofen? I fudged it up earlier today, and have been drinkin to dull the pain -_-)
Try rubbin some tussin on it.

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