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View Poll Results: Age of Ultron or World's Finest
Age of Ultron 84 63.16%
World's Finest 49 36.84%
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:29 AM   #126
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

I can Imagine about Avengers age of ultron as we already have seen avengers
but I really have no Idea how a World Finest would be like or how it can happen

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Old 07-23-2013, 06:36 AM   #127
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
What's the worst part about this, is this is the studio forcing WF rather than do a MoS sequel and try to evolve that. This may be the franchise killer. They really didn't establish Clark in MoS, and now they're going to muddy the waters trying to introduce a new Batman, and have him work with Superman. Legendary is gone so this is going to be a cluster ****.
Clark seemed pretty established to ME. Regardless, I don't really think at this point in the character's history the general audience (and certainly not comic fans) need to spend a whole lot of time figuring out who Clark Kent is. Bruce Wayne either, for that matter....

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Old 07-23-2013, 06:40 AM   #128
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Sigh.
For years, for many years now people have considered DKR a brilliant Batman story. Before anyone starts to crap on it, the book is pretty iconic and genre defining. Go look at the charts.

Funny enough that book features superman in it. It also features a great joker appearance. Ignoring the technicalities, I seem to recall batman not getting short changed. Just a thought.

It just seems so odd to hear people complain about a crossover short changing Superman but when avengers was announced most people weren't as concerned about Cap and Thor and Hulk..
Exactly.

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Old 07-23-2013, 07:07 AM   #129
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Sigh.
For years, for many years now people have considered DKR a brilliant Batman story. Before anyone starts to crap on it, the book is pretty iconic and genre defining. Go look at the charts.

Funny enough that book features superman in it. It also features a great joker appearance. Ignoring the technicalities, I seem to recall batman not getting short changed. Just a thought.

It just seems so odd to hear people complain about a crossover short changing Superman but when avengers was announced most people weren't as concerned about Cap and Thor and Hulk...Hard to figure out what to extrapolate from this. About fans anyways. The GA is far more transparent and consistent.

Anyways, I suppose time will tell, Goyer and Snyder's DCU work has been far more memorable for me than the majority of he MCU work thus far. I hope they continue.
Well, those characters were given an appropriate degree of attention and development in both their solo outings and in the team-up film.

Man of Steel was presented as a deeply thematic, complex, character-driven drama. In the end, what we got was a convoluted melodrama with unexplored themes and an undeveloped lead. When push came to shove, the protagonist had barely said a word by the time he donned his iconic outfit, and for the rest of the film, his portrayal was mostly relegated to grunts and gazes. Contrast that with any of the aforementioned solo films and it's readily evident that by their conclusions, they presented fully formed characters that had been developed and given some degree of personality & convictions. I still feel like we hardly know who Clark Kent is by the end of Man of Steel, as he spent most of his time either fighting the bad guys or being a sounding board for the preaching of various other characters. A bit of simplicity would have actually worked wonders for this film, as it was far too bloated to allow the important aspects to develop at all.

WB simply backed themselves into a corner with MoS. I'm very curious to see what becomes of Clark, Lois, and everyone else, and to what extent Batman will feature. Will it solely be Batman, or will his regular supporting characters feature as well? How much time will be devoted to exploring his character as opposed to Clark's? I don't buy that excuse that we've 'had 7 years of good Batman stories on the silver screen.' That's a lazy approach to story telling and I sincerely hope that Snyder, whom I've come to not expect much from anyway, doesn't adhere to this mentality as he develops the film.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:32 AM   #130
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

I agree about Snyder's lazy style of story telling, but in all fairness, he's being told what to do, same with Goyer. This isn't being produced in the traditional way, this is the big wigs who want Avengers money, and they think the audience are idiots and will show up just because it's Superman and Batman. But in reality it's the execs that are idiots for trusting Goyer and Snyder to handle this kind of project.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #131
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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I agree about Snyder's lazy style of story telling, but in all fairness, he's being told what to do, same with Goyer. This isn't being produced in the traditional way, this is the big wigs who want Avengers money, and they think the audience are idiots and will show up just because it's Superman and Batman. But in reality it's the execs that are idiots for trusting Goyer and Snyder to handle this kind of project.
They are idiots because they are going to lose out on their investment. This project will make them no money and they will feel like idiots.

Moreover, these two have proven their failure on an epic level, the brand is all but dead in the water and I'd even say we are in green lantern levels of public(who matter), contempt.

Just sounds like fanboy catharsis imo.
All jokes aside, what do you mean by the execs are idiots for trusting these two?

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:59 AM   #132
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Well, those characters were given an appropriate degree of attention and development in both their solo outings and in the team-up film.
Your opinion. Mine is that was not the fully formed cap I expect from the comics(still isn't), Thor is painfully one note and needs another movie(perhaps this new one) to develop his character beyond that. I'm looking forward to seeing an avengers film with these character appropriately developed and that's why I'm pretty excited for AOU. Cap especially.
Then again, it's not like had much of a development arc thoughout his story, still pretty much the same guy as he was before the steroids.

Quote:
Man of Steel was presented as a deeply thematic, complex, character-driven drama. In the end, what we got was a convoluted melodrama with unexplored themes and an undeveloped lead. When push came to shove, the protagonist had barely said a word by the time he donned his iconic outfit, and for the rest of the film, his portrayal was mostly relegated to grunts and gazes. Contrast that with any of the aforementioned solo films and it's readily evident that by their conclusions, they presented fully formed characters that had been developed and given some degree of personality & convictions. I still feel like we hardly know who Clark Kent is by the end of Man of Steel, as he spent most of his time either fighting the bad guys or being a sounding board for the preaching of various other characters. A bit of simplicity would have actually worked wonders for this film, as it was far too bloated to allow the important aspects to develop at all.
It's in this grey area that we find our selves making the most of hyperbole.
I know clark plenty. I don't know what he would do when tossed in a cave with a box of scraps but I know enough. For example I know what he would do in the face of a kryptonian invasion. And I know what he would do if he faced another. I know how he feels about his dad, the gov't...etc. I look forward to more development in the future. Hopefully it's not a character arc restart as I've seen in most of those marvel films.

I know about his conviction to save humanity, even at the cost of killing a kin. How does cap feel about taking life I wonder...answer(unknown), he's a solider(or an honorary one anyways).

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Old 07-23-2013, 12:23 PM   #133
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Your opinion.
You don't say?

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Mine is that was not the fully formed cap I expect from the comics(still isn't), Thor is painfully one note and needs another movie(perhaps this new one) to develop his character beyond that.
Yet either of these criticisms, among others, apply to Clark(if not more so) in MoS. With that being said, it's perfectly reasonable to be wary of how he will be handled in this forthcoming team-up/vs/whatever film. On the other hand, it could be a great movie...point is, I don't see anyone counting their chickens before they hatch; it's either optimism or caution, nothing wrong with either. The Avengers comparison was a non-sequitur to begin with.

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Old 07-23-2013, 09:14 PM   #134
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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You don't say?
No doubt,
I was kinda curious if it was pertaining to my experience or just yours?
I know now.

Quote:
Yet either of these criticisms, among others, apply to Clark(if not more so) in MoS. With that being said, it's perfectly reasonable to be wary of how he will be handled in this forthcoming team-up/vs/whatever film. On the other hand, it could be a great movie...point is, I don't see anyone counting their chickens before they hatch; it's either optimism or caution, nothing wrong with either. The Avengers comparison was a non-sequitur to begin with.
I'm feeling optimistic.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:35 PM   #135
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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still pretty much the same guy as he was before the steroids.
Ummmm......

That's the point. Captain America is a character who doesn't change, it's everything around him that does.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:54 PM   #136
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Oooooh....WF may catch up.

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Ummmm......

That's the point. Captain America is a character who doesn't change, it's everything around him that does.
Thank you.
And as Erskine said, he was good before the serum and great after the serum.

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Old 07-24-2013, 12:09 AM   #137
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Ummmm......

That's the point. Captain America is a character who doesn't change, it's everything around him that does.
+1. That is literally the entire point of Caps existence

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:23 AM   #138
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Easily WF. I didn't like the avengers, have no interest in its sequel, and mos is by far my favorite cbm of all time. So yeah, WF for me.

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Old 07-24-2013, 03:15 AM   #139
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

It will be interesting to see how this thread/poll changes over the next two years.

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Old 07-24-2013, 03:51 AM   #140
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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It will be interesting to see how this thread/poll changes over the next two years.
WF will probably win or tie with AoU because it's a fresh concept and the trailers are probably going to be awesome. I actually liked TDKR and MOS trailers better than The Avengers' trailers.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:20 AM   #141
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WF will probably win or tie with AoU because it's a fresh concept and the trailers are probably going to be awesome. I actually liked TDKR and MOS trailers better than The Avengers' trailers.
Yeah, the excitement for WF will be higher once 2014 rolls around and we get a trailer. Maybe even before that. I'm hoping what we get isn't a slow teaser like we got with MOS. I loved the slow build-up strategy they took with the trailers, but this needs one that will kick ass from the jump.

Little personal things I look forward to are seeing who's a better hand-to-hand fighter between Batman and Captain America? Who shows more strength and/or power between Thor, Hulk and Superman? Who will have better gadgets/tech between Batman, Luthor and Iron Man? Makes it more fun for me.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:26 AM   #142
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

People know a money grab when they see one. From MoS there is no logical story line that ends with Superman and Batman meeting. From the beginning Marvel at least planned into the story that the Avengers would meet up.

The biggest difference between these films will be that Whedon is a terrific writer while Goyer is a lousy writer.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:32 AM   #143
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

The Avengers was great, but it had a funnier tone than what I was expecting. Some comedy is good but it's things like the Hulk punching Thor out of the frame that was just silly. I'm confident that Snyder will give me the serious tone I want with WF, but he'll put some comedy in there too. Worked well in MOS to me. I have faith that Whedon will make something darker and more serious this time around with Ultron as the villain, but also have those light moments of comedy. Just hoping he doesn't get excessive with the comedic moments.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:34 AM   #144
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Some comedy is good but it's things like the Hulk punching Thor out of the frame that was just silly
I love that scene. it provides the needed levity after a considerable amount of time blowing things up. If MOS had scenes like that maybe the third act action wouldn't have felt so tedious?

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:38 AM   #145
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I love that scene. it provides the needed levity after a considerable amount of time blowing things up. If MOS had scenes like that maybe the third act action wouldn't have felt so tedious?
I like the scene but I also think it's too cartoonish. I need less sillier moments for the sequel. After watching MOS a few more times, I understand what you mean about the third act action. I get kinda bored watching that Zod fight. That's something I hope Snyder improves on with WF.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:42 AM   #146
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

It is a logical culmination of Thor and Hulk's relationship. Thor ticked him off and their battle was interrupted. Hulk had to find his closure. It also points to Banner's relative control of him compared to before.

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:49 AM   #147
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

I understand all of that but the scene was still silly to me. It wasn't a necessity, it was just funny. Banner's relative control had already been shown multiple times before then. Like when he willingly hulked out, or when he listened to Cap's orders. Hell, the fact that he fought alongside the Avengers the entire time and didn't smash them demonstrated Banner's relative control. Their friendship doesn't have to be shown like it's a Saturday morning cartoon. A shove is okay, but a full-blown punch out of the frame pushes it. Whedon seemed to really like doing that, so I kind of worry for the sequel in that regard.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:04 AM   #148
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

It is silly. But that is not a bad thing because it breaks tension and a radical shift in dramatic tone like that helps cushion tediousness. If it was without context, like in the chase scene for TDK where we see two kids in a car parking lot, it can certainly be irksome. But, as I demonstrated, it is motivated by logical character progression. And yes, Hulk's sanity was repeatedly demonstrated everywhere through the climax of the film, it doesn't hurt to explore that development in character around every facet. Banner had the wit to remember a scuffle that happened when he was consumed by rage and hate. Finally, I don't believe a shove would've been effective as a humorous moment. The full blown punch out happens after a brief, quiet reprieve from all the action. We are tense, anticipating what drama will unfold next. The sheer outrageousness that follows and undercuts that anticipation forces one to confront the absurdity and the only reaction is heart laughter.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:20 AM   #149
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Like I said, it is a funny moment. But it wasn't a necessary scene. I'm going to drop it there.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:26 AM   #150
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Hmm...

A sequel to a great film from my favourite writer/director.

vs.

A sequel to a film I didn't particularly like, with the same unreliable talent behind it... Plus Batman.


Quite an easy one for me. Days Of Future Past. And then Avengers.


DC are embarassing themselves at this point.

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